The Retro-PES Corner

[millossobek]

I've played a few exhibitions in PES 3 and I've enjoyed it. However, I've heard that in ML, players don't age. Do player development/curves exist? Was wondering if you guys could give me a rundown of PES 3 ML and how it works before giving it a shot. Thanks!

 

[BillyKong]

I personally regard We9 LE as the best "old gen" PES ever made (before new engine in pes 2008). It's fluid, it has a lot of variety and ball feels like real one.

So @BillyKong , when you will release we9le PS2 version?

Hopefully in the next few weeks but there are lots of issues to overcome as the database is in Korean. There is an English translated version but it has some issues with national team names and incorrect player names and stats so will have to see first if I can overcome these issues. If not I will focus on WE9 Japan instead.

First my focus is to fix the Cup/League issue in WE7I.

 

[Sany023]

PES6 AI trolling me

Sorry for little wrongposting, because game in my video is eFootball 23, but ...
... I make a revenge for you and fooled AI in few tricks on best player difficulty.

https://disk.yandex.ru/d/eDZGWkQJKtst8A

 

[BillyKong]

@fmicablues7 @Chris Davies @Marlon Anthony and everyone else, I have managed to fix the issue with the Cup/Leagues not loading on WE7I. I have tested the new ISO by loading various League, Cup and Master League tournaments and have experienced no crashes or black screens. I tested all languages and it appears to be working fine now (fingers crossed). Here is the new updated download link:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/qw71cbrclfukbh2/Winning_Eleven_7_International.7z/file

I have also updated the original post with the new download link.

If anyone has downloaded the patched ISO of Winning Eleven 7 International before January 31st 2023 please re-download it again!

 

[vialli82]

@fmicablues7 @Chris Davies @Marlon Anthony and everyone else, I have managed to fix the issue with the Cup/Leagues not loading on WE7I. I have tested the new ISO by loading various League, Cup and Master League tournaments and have experienced no crashes or black screens. I tested all languages and it appears to be working fine now (fingers crossed). Here is the new updated download link:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/qw71cbrclfukbh2/Winning_Eleven_7_International.7z/file

I have also updated the original post with the new download link.

If anyone has downloaded the patched ISO of Winning Eleven 7 International before January 31st 2023 please re-download it again!

I noticed few errors i already mentioned before you did your patch not corrected, and some others weird things in the database.
Like just the guy in Hamburg who left the club and get replaced by a youth... But they misunderstood. There's others errors when i was restoring that game, but i doesn't tilt me like that one > "Meyer" (high rated, AV, 95 in Balance and 32 years old, Netherlands) replaced or not removed and misunderstood by "Meyer" (low stats like 80 in Stamina that's all, foundable in WE8/didn't checked PES 4, Germany)
Just remember from 20 years ago it was THE big mistake lol.
But there's others i noticed when i restored the database to make it more realistic with PES 4 stats. Some stats doesn't makes sense at all in PES3/WE7I.

I was working myself on a O.F. for Redux patch, and found a way to restore language text at least. But i given up : too much to do, and i replayed the game i found it a bit rigid and you can feel that's the first version with that engine. But it's super nicely balanced and that's why it's on the top. Now in terms of fun and visuals, WE8LE is my own choice, i don't try to convince anyone here, just personal tastes.

But i sincerely need to replay WE7I more longer. You can found some qualities later which aren't in any other PES/WE

(Note : i will try the very last version as the from yesterday doesn't launch on original hardware)
Note 2: on the previous version i had a freeze before a game, now direct black screen. But don't worry mate. Just wanted to see some ig changes by curiosity : don't fix it for me at all > only if someone wants it on PS2 You did enough thanks again

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To talk about the other debate : i compare PES 5, not WE9 jap with WE9LE. WE9 is a bit more basic but probably the most defensive version of every PES.
On our usual tournament games ended usually no more than 1-0, scoring 3 goals in total from a side to another was an exploit.
WE9LE is supposed to be PES5 in Korea, with something perhaps different online, never tried so i don't know and especially for Korean market (Liveware Evolution, it's obvious that it's online based).

It's not a final evolution for example, but a translated one, there's 0 transfers from PES 5.
Yes the game was faster than PES 5 overall but i suppose it's relative to the country or the way the game was re-built/or a placebo, and i wasn't a fan lol. No difference in anything except that vs PES 5 but that's my perception.
And PES 6 ball physics got a lot of variety much more than PES 5, but miss the weight-shift you can found in WE9/PES5 and so WE9LE. The issue is that the whole game is not that bad objectively, but much more... Mainstream so easier to score. JLWE2007 is the version to play if you like PES 6, don't want to play something else but found it too arcadey and one thing i forgot : with bugs and missing balance (joke when a player with high balance could run trough walls)

 

[galaxy]

I may be alone in this, but I think WE9LE is overrated. There seem to be two kinds of WE9LE appreciators: the ones who like it for being the last, most polished and deepest iteration of the PES 5 family, and the fake ones who actually much prefer PES 6 to 5 and use WE9LE to discredit PES 5. It may sound strange, but as a PES 5 (and PES 4!) fan myself I've spotted several of these PES 6 "fans". Before concluding this post, however, I would like to make a critic of the "this is the definitive release to play" philosophy. First: we all are retro gamers, and to infer that the last iteration should automatically be considered the best is something that defies the retro logic itself. Second: every Konami title, if taken as it was meant to be played, has something unique to offer and this is true also for earlier releases. For example the Japanese WE8 came out with an earlier mid-2004 roster, and many different kits than PES 4, and these things give it a distinct appeal. The YouTuber Surfer9x says WE8 feels "cleaner" than the European PES 4. I did not try it but I have the same impression with PES 5 PS2 and its PC port. The PS2 version feels more organic, and also slightly faster.

Another 2 cents: the ball phyisics argument. In some cases, there isn't even any need for a real comparison. PES 6's ball phyisics, for example, are much worse than in previous titles. I even recall one shoot that was going steadily upwards. But between PES 5 and WE9LE, the difference is very small. Is the PES 5 ball slightly more bouncy and light? The difference between PES 4 and WE8LE is, on the other hand, very stark. Should we judge by realism only? I think we should consider also how well the ball fits in the engine of the game taken as a whole. For example, in PES 4 players feel very light, and the ball feels light too. It's very bouncy and curles beautifully producing maybe the most varied trajectories in the whole series. While reading WE8LE reviews, however, people complained that passing and shooting speed seemed to be off if compared to players' speed on field. Shooting per se is better is arguably better than in PES 4, but this also results in GKs being much weaker against mid and long range shots. This is very evident in PES 5 with its number of shots being unsuccessfully deflected by goalkeepers.

I'll conclude with 3 aspects that, I believe, PES 5 does better than WE9LE. The first: referees strictness. PES 5 has been critized for the frequency of fouls (you get less fouls the better you become at it) but the fact is, it's very rare to feel cheated by the referee. WE9LE refs are less strict, so one foul may be called in PES 5 and ignored in WE9LE. The second aspect: I think PES 5 is somewhat more exciting. There is something in the particular rhythm of passing the ball around in PES 5. The "secret PES 6 fans", however, do not appreciate the features of WE9LE, but that is supposedly perfected over PES 5. And it is, but it was such a minimal polishing that it can't be used to dismiss PES 5 once for all. A 1% difference can't matter that much. My third and final aspect: online and human 1v1 gameplay. In 10 minutes matches, experienced players (those who find 6 stars difficulty easy) will have low scores. Lots of 1-0's because defences rock in this game. With 0-0's and occasional high scores, the average is around 3 goals per match (which is perfect). That is, we can play 10 minutes 1v1 matches with realistic scores. The problem is that WE9LE needs at least 15-20 minutes matches and maybe more in order to have realistic final scores between skilled players. This can be a plus, but for 1v1s and online it can be a deal-breaker. For me, PES 5 is definitely superior in the classic 10 minutes format.

 

[LP64]

It's great to have a forum where people are still talking about and making content for these older games. I started with PES 2 on the PS2 and finished with PES 2008 on PS2, which ended up being my favourite, especially for multiplayer. Then many years later I heard about WE9LE and it became my go to game.

Lately I have been trying out WE 2008 (PS2) but I just can't get over how turning works while sprinting with the ball. For some reason, some players will turn 45 degrees while sprinting, but only every second touch. So they will turn 45 degrees, then 22.5 degrees, then 45, then 22.5 and so on. Other players will do the usual 22.5 degree turn while sprinting for all turns. Wing play becomes frustrating, because you have to know which players turn normally and which ones do the weird alternative turn when trying to beat defenders and stay in bounds.

It's a shame, because I love the rest of the gameplay in WE 2008. Has anyone else noticed this issue in WE 2008 or PES 2008? I'm not sure if it is a bug or intended.

 

[vialli82]

@galaxy you're not alone as i said it before in a previous post, i don't like that much WE9LE and there's a lot of placebo to me. For X reasons more detailled, but i won't repeat myself and you said everything on your post.
But one thing is sure, the game is faster, seems lighter in terms of physics when you turn etc. and i don't like it. Like WE10LE is even faster than PES 6, no joke.

@LP64 i don't know but my reference is now PES 2008 era (JL2008CC is also awesome... Need to try again but it's like a PES 2008 final evolution) BUT as well i can't really said that i prefers it than PES5/WE9, no nostalgia involved.
Otherwise it's probably a bug, or something i don't understand the issue/which doesn't bores me.

In PES5 the automatic movement when you do forward then down or up, makes a small avoid by pushing the ball is much much more game changer. The issue is you can't move forward then right or left normally... But it bring some fun and a different way to dribble so i won't say that it's bad. Just that it remove a simple change of direction.

Otherwise there's nothing really different in terms of moves from PES 2008 to WE 2008, more about AI and overall speed, some small changes here and there. Nothing really new. If you want the same essence as that 07-08 era but with a more solid feeling : try a bit JL2008cc mate. You won't be disappointed (personally i love both versions)

I talk as a reference, but i can't say that i found the game better than WE9/PES5 era (i don't like WE9LE lol, neither PES 6)
As when i play it depends to my mood, what i'm searching in the moment etc. as the two game are pretty different in the approach (even if 2008 got more algorithm, animations and better ball physics doesn't mean that the "overall direction" is clearly better : i tend to prefers 2008 but i can't say that it's a better game objectively than WE9/PES5)

 

[geeeeee]

It's great to have a forum where people are still talking about and making content for these older games. I started with PES 2 on the PS2 and finished with PES 2008 on PS2, which ended up being my favourite, especially for multiplayer. Then many years later I heard about WE9LE and it became my go to game.

Lately I have been trying out WE 2008 (PS2) but I just can't get over how turning works while sprinting with the ball. For some reason, some players will turn 45 degrees while sprinting, but only every second touch. So they will turn 45 degrees, then 22.5 degrees, then 45, then 22.5 and so on. Other players will do the usual 22.5 degree turn while sprinting for all turns. Wing play becomes frustrating, because you have to know which players turn normally and which ones do the weird alternative turn when trying to beat defenders and stay in bounds.

It's a shame, because I love the rest of the gameplay in WE 2008. Has anyone else noticed this issue in WE 2008 or PES 2008? I'm not sure if it is a bug or intended.

I have not noticed it myself although I do find it easier to dribble with some players compared to others. I would have thought that is because of the stats of each individual player.

 

[LP64]

I made a quick video of the possible dribbling bug I am encountering. I'm pressing the exact same buttons for both players, yet they turn very differently.



It may have something to do with the stats, but interestingly Scholes and Silvestre have similar stats regarding dribbling yet they dribble very differently as you can see in the video. I have looked at other statistics but can't figure out what may be causing the difference. It just seems odd that every second touch results in a sharper turn with Scholes. It almost looks like the dribbling animation is being reset with every 2nd touch while sprinting.

 

[geeeeee]

Being honest I dont really notice it too much. I think that every player in real life dribbles differently anyway so to see slightly different dribbling in the game is a good thing for me. Maybe one thing that you can do to test if its the stats, is copy Silvestre’s stats over Scholes‘ and visa versa and see if it makes any difference.

 

[LP64]

Good idea and you are correct, it is to do with the statistics. Scholes is now running the same as Silvestre. That is a good point about enjoying the difference in dribbling. It's funny, because I never remember even noticing it back on PES 2008 back in the day, but I'm struggling with it now! I'm probably just getting worse at games

EDIT: I did some more testing and it seems the game even takes into account which way you are turning with regards to dribble accuracy. Actually a pretty cool feature now I understand it better.

 

[reinelt97]

@BillyKong That looks the business. I've only recently been reminded of how good PES 3 is and how good it still looks graphically. More than anything, it's just fun. I still play on my original PS2 console. I don't suppose there's a version of your suped-up PES 3 available for console. Via McBoot maybe?

EDIT: Just fired up PES 3 because of this thread and I know someone mentioned it before but to me it's the last PES to really feature the superstars of the game. Playing against Classic Argentina and Maradona is truly terrifying every time he gets the ball. He dribbles like Maradona, he looks like Maradona and he just celebrated a goal against me just like Maradona.

I love PES 5 but the likes of Maradona in that are rather watered down in terms of their International Superstar Soccer qualities.

 

[geeeeee]

Good idea and you are correct, it is to do with the statistics. Scholes is now running the same as Silvestre. That is a good point about enjoying the difference in dribbling. It's funny, because I never remember even noticing it back on PES 2008 back in the day, but I'm struggling with it now! I'm probably just getting worse at games

I am actually surprised that it worked

I don't notice it in PES2008 but you mentioned that you now play WE2008, maybe there is a difference.

 

[vialli82]

I'm probably just getting worse at games

I think we ALL get worse than in PES 3-4-5-6 era
Before we were playing every day with the same series of games, even if one thing change from a version to another : we managed to re-learn how to play...
And we were completely on immersion with those games. Now it's a bit normal that we lost it.

I scored tons of Free Kicks from every side and was a pro at it more than my friends, now it's a miracle when i do it from + than 23-25 meters, and even on that distance it's on the wall or the keeper take it lol.
Or things we all got as a specialitiy like for example managed to conserve the ball like but before even Tika-taka existed, and i was even doing some small feints while i'm playing let's say, alone "your mofos won't get the ball. Taste the grass flavor with your tackle, renew with nature" etc. after, my weak point is i never aimed a shoot if i wasn't 90% sure that the ball could enter. If i didn't got that bad habit i would've scored "more and more and more and more"

But it wasn't that hard on every version to relearn how to play, we tend a bit to make the picture bigger than it was at the time. From PES 1 to 2 i remember tooking the game in hands directly, same with WE8LE and WE9. And the learning curve wasn't that long neither. "Action-Football games, sim is a description invented by the media", a bit my usual sentence when we talk about football sim. Can't imagine a game you're playing 45 or 90 minutes and scoring only once or not during that time. It would be ultra boring.

 

[marqisspes6]

I scored tons of Free Kicks from every side and was a pro at it more than my friends, now it's a miracle when i do it from + than 23-25 meters, and even on that distance it's on the wall or the keeper take it lol.
Or things we all got as a specialitiy like for example managed to conserve the ball like but before even Tika-taka existed, and i was even doing some small feints while i'm playing let's say, alone "your mofos won't get the ball. Taste the grass flavor with your tackle, renew with nature" etc. after, my weak point is i never aimed a shoot if i wasn't 90% sure that the ball could enter. If i didn't got that bad habit i would've scored "more and more and more and more"

i used to be pretty good with free kicks too back then, from what you said, we should play a few matches sometime on pes5 online, would be interesting hahaha

 

[vialli82]

I am actually surprised that it worked

I don't notice it in PES2008 but you mentioned that you now play WE2008, maybe there is a difference.

Yes the game is feeling different. Speed is the same, but there's some stuffs which seemed "in construction" which were more obvious in WE 2008. I prefers that version to be honest.

EDIT/
Just super sad there's not a simple O.F. editor for it. But there's 1 editor and another you can transform to edit the game from the core database. And about graphism, i don't know if you can do everything with GGS... I don't think, you need (fucking) Hexadecimal and computer language knowledge.
There's a way to modify every PES with Fabio Vitor editor. But not Winning eleven, it's not on that editor
FORTUNATELY there's a trick : you can import everything from WE10. So it's not impossible to at least reproducing kits with Logos, emblems, We10 Editor and an option file on the second memcard.

Now, JLWE2008CC got another approach with the same game. Both are good hard to choose. PES 2008 is faster but a bit more errors while shooting, ball physics and timing is pretty hard to handle, less the case in JL2008 which is more "regular" from every part, ball physics control is easier but defending is more easy too etc.

 

[vialli82]

@BillyKong That looks the business. I've only recently been reminded of how good PES 3 is and how good it still looks graphically. More than anything, it's just fun. I still play on my original PS2 console. I don't suppose there's a version of your suped-up PES 3 available for console. Via McBoot maybe?

EDIT: Just fired up PES 3 because of this thread and I know someone mentioned it before but to me it's the last PES to really feature the superstars of the game. Playing against Classic Argentina and Maradona is truly terrifying every time he gets the ball. He dribbles like Maradona, he looks like Maradona and he just celebrated a goal against me just like Maradona.

I love PES 5 but the likes of Maradona in that are rather watered down in terms of their International Superstar Soccer qualities.

That's one of the best season yes. PES 5 got too young superstars from 2009-10 and a the legends are from one or two years from retirement.
Well my favourite era is the one even before, even more legends at their peak, just the issue is about the clubs and "no transfers" structure.

I ain't a fan of the rigidity and zero animation transition since a long time of WE7-PES3-WE7I japan, but yes it's fun for sure.
But looks less like a "whole" on the pitch like PES1 or PES2 era games : those two aren't super rigid and got animation transition.

I mean : i conduct player like the old game Snake on that version, i never been a fan for it. But that's a matter of taster, thing you don't care and thing you care etc.
But it was a new engine, everything to reproduce ect., i just fall from my chair by replaying WE7I jap and see how tic-tac-toc is dribbling.

 

[Fatmaninhell111]

I finally got round to playing this patch last night and wow, I had so much fun!

PES 3 is an amazing game but much like WE9LE, this is the definitive way to play it, too many quality of life improvements makes it harder to go back to PES 3.

I must say, I'm fascinated by the work you did on assets here, it's not to jarring to the original game, the new turfs look great and I can't figure out how you added the jersey sprites to the fans?

One question though, you mention you included two balls, how do we choose the Finale? Only the Fevernova seems to be active in exhibitions?

U got me to try it from watching the stream man. I love old pes. I wish there were more option files for the early 2000s specifically for we9

 

[vialli82]

I would like a classic website PSD style, but there's not about era but "best players for X clubs/nations". And stats are overrated and not as much "risky", i mean you or me or anyone who can build a set of stats can do those players. Just check the old PES official stats and amplify their strenghts, just don't care about their weaknesses. Overrated players too. I think it's an italian website, there's 2 others i know except PSD, PES Habilidades (overrate middle and low range players) and one italian for Classics but i think they stopped some times ago.

Currently PSD who was pretty criticised for it, changed their standards and it's much more accurate now. Nothing comparable as before, i talked with a PSD current stats editor, that's what he told me. Unfortunately they are few in comparison to before for all leagues, clubs, nations, less known players etc.
And they don't do Classics.

I don't like to build a season over another version and WE9 03-04 was a good one. But i won't lie that i would like to see a PES/WE i like with rosters from a certain "golden" era with tons of charismatic players. Like 01-02 or 02-03. Now to recreate players and stats... I hate randomness, and older PES stats aren't compatible with WE8 and above. PES1 is not compatible normally, but there's a trick to convert player (+10 on every stats, and for 95 to 99 i don't remember the rules : but i remember that it was exponential > probably the same maths as WE9 and future series for the golden range)

WE9 is the most defensive of the series and if you found that there's too much fouls in PES 5, never try that one as there's like 2* more fouls
But i love the punitive system of pressing, it's a way to press with the good timing or it will result as a fault. That's what i suppose they wanted to do when i see those game with the recoil : i would never had think of it at the time. Well no one complained about the number of fouls in my entourage and we were a lot. They just didn't read what the media/critics said so it didn't came to their mind.

 

[LP64]

I don't notice it in PES2008 but you mentioned that you now play WE2008

I tested and it is the same for PES2008 as well, but now that I understand why it happens, it doesn't bother me as much . Interestingly, WE2008/PES2008 are the only PS2 games in the series in which dribbling works this way. 2009-2014 on PS2 all have much tighter dribbling while sprinting with no randomness when turning, even with lower stats.

I like how WE2008-2012 on PS2 has the extra unlockable difficulty. Would be great if PES2008-2014 had the extra difficulty as well, but unfortunately it seems that was reserved for the Japanese versions which ended with WE2012. Ah well, at least WE2008-2012 can all be played in English!

 

[Madmac79]

I'm not a great fan of WE9LE as well. I mean it's still great as the rest of that gen, but I think physics and whatever change they made that makes things more "fluid" also makes the game easier.. or at least it was for me when I retook it vanilla time ago. I much prefer WE9/PES5/or even WE 9 JL Asia Championship (maybe the best of the bunch thanks to low stats rosters).

I wish so much they ignored the stuff they actually tinkered on WE9LE and focused instead on giving an actual offensive AI to the CPU at least in that "last" chapter lol. I still can't make peace with the fact that the WE9 based games are so good, yet they did nothing with the stupidity of the CPU until the very end.

 

[millossobek]

I love JLE9AC and the idea behind it as I'm a huge fan of Asian rosters. The gameplay itself is really balanced and enjoyable too. The only issue I have with it is.. About 80% of my games end up 0-0 or 1-0! I play with 4 star difficulty but I don't know if it's the game itself, or maybe I just need to practice and practice.. A brilliant game, just very low scoring when I'm playing.

 

[H_G]

Is that a special celebration for Shearer ?

 

[millossobek]

Wondering if you guys know of any good modders in the forum who specialize in weather conditions? This might really be quite a long shot, but would like to see if a request could be made to add some kind of rain effect in PES 2014, as it is completely absent. Thanks in advance.

EDIT: I thought about posting this in the PES 2014 thread but this might get more visibility, and didn't want to start a new thread for this topic.

 

[vialli82]

I'm not a great fan of WE9LE as well. I mean it's still great as the rest of that gen, but I think physics and whatever change they made that makes things more "fluid" also makes the game easier.. or at least it was for me when I retook it vanilla time ago. I much prefer WE9/PES5/or even WE 9 JL Asia Championship (maybe the best of the bunch thanks to low stats rosters).

I wish so much they ignored the stuff they actually tinkered on WE9LE and focused instead on giving an actual offensive AI to the CPU at least in that "last" chapter lol. I still can't make peace with the fact that the WE9 based games are so good, yet they did nothing with the stupidity of the CPU until the very end.

You're right, i didn't really hated litteraly that game neither in the past but with the recoil and even before i avoided that version and played or WE9/PES5/JLWE9, it was an observation about fact, it's faster and a bit like PES 6 balance with PES 5 gameplay. Weirdest version to me.
I don't understand people here claiming that it's the best PS2-Like version (as it's also out on PC)

 

[vialli82]

Is that a special celebration for Shearer ?

Possible as Batigol got one, but i believe that celebration is more a standard just rarely happening. If you made a "marathon" with both ISS 98 (eu or us > different roster same game) or a WE3 final evolution (to me the most awesome with exact replica of France 98 rosters), told us if you see.

You're pretty interested in celebrations, probably a trauma caused by listenning too much Kool and the Gang

 

[geeeeee]

I'm not a great fan of WE9LE as well. I mean it's still great as the rest of that gen, but I think physics and whatever change they made that makes things more "fluid" also makes the game easier.. or at least it was for me when I retook it vanilla time ago. I much prefer WE9/PES5/or even WE 9 JL Asia Championship (maybe the best of the bunch thanks to low stats rosters).

I wish so much they ignored the stuff they actually tinkered on WE9LE and focused instead on giving an actual offensive AI to the CPU at least in that "last" chapter lol. I still can't make peace with the fact that the WE9 based games are so good, yet they did nothing with the stupidity of the CPU until the very end.

You're right, i didn't really hated litteraly that game neither in the past but with the recoil and even before i avoided that version and played or WE9/PES5/JLWE9, it was an observation about fact, it's faster and a bit like PES 6 balance with PES 5 gameplay. Weirdest version to me.
I don't understand people here claiming that it's the best PS2-Like version (as it's also out on PC)

I didnt really rate WE9LE either compared to PES5 because I found it too responsive. My theory at the time (whether true or not) was that I played PES5 on the PS2 which had a very very slight delay from the button presses whereas playing WE9LE the button presses were more responsive. I preferred the delay on the PS2.

There were a couple on this forum called Vicktoristus and Lukasz who had a website called weplaywe, they really pushed the game. Come to think about it, they really helped motivate me when I was editing PES5. Wonder what they are up to now.

 

[geeeeee]

I just done a search and realised I posted almost the same post in August 2018

Regarding the 'PES 5 verses WE9LE debate'...

Actually maybe I should call it the 'PES5 (PS2) verses PES5 (PC) and WE9LE (PC) debate'...

Personally I prefered PES5 on the PS2 simply because I find it less responsive. When I played PES5 and WE9LE on the PC I felt like I was playing tika-taka all the time because as soon as I pressed the pass button it hmm... passed (obviously) but it was just too quick too responsive. I prefer that very slight delay maybe its 0.00001 second or something but it feels better on the PS2 because it feels like the player has thought about the pass.

I remember having this conversation with Soyo (or Lukasz) and Viktoristus. Two guys that really brought WE9LE to many people's attention on evo-web. I wonder what happened to them.

Someone’s opened up a can of worms now.

Here is a good read for anyone interested…

Thread 'From WE9 to WE9LE – 7 month road to "almost" perfection'
https://evoweb.uk/threads/from-we9-to-we9le-–-7-month-road-to-almost-perfection.72023/

 

[galaxy]

I'm not a great fan of WE9LE as well. I mean it's still great as the rest of that gen, but I think physics and whatever change they made that makes things more "fluid" also makes the game easier.. or at least it was for me when I retook it vanilla time ago. I much prefer WE9/PES5/or even WE 9 JL Asia Championship (maybe the best of the bunch thanks to low stats rosters).

I wish so much they ignored the stuff they actually tinkered on WE9LE and focused instead on giving an actual offensive AI to the CPU at least in that "last" chapter lol. I still can't make peace with the fact that the WE9 based games are so good, yet they did nothing with the stupidity of the CPU until the very end.

I fully agree with you. WE9LE's minor tweaks drifted away from PES 5's uncompromising nature. Passing the ball around, or shooting, does not give me the same pleasure I get in PES 5. In WE9LE the ball is sensinsibly heavier, resulting in less varied and more predictable outcomes when the fight rages. With WE9LE, it's like Konami acted on two opposite ways: on one hand it made the player be more "in control" by polishing the game and by making player control smoother, a bit à la PES 6. A heavier ball is easier to control, and this was subsequently brought to the extreme with PES 6, where you can really count just on one fingers hand those rebounds typical of PES 5. On the other hand, Konami made finishing, passing and crossing significantly more sensitive. One could argue that this should have made the game harder, but ultimately this further dimmed the "day or night" electrifying nature of PES 5. I'm not surprised, then, that WE9LE is favoured by PES 6 fans. All of this is evident in online matches. In PES 5, when the defending player wants to make it really hard for the opponent to score, matches really resemble the mid 2000's Serie A. Lots of grinding battles, defenders trying to get in control of the frequent rebounds and kicking the ball away, and also the use of tactical fouls. WE9LE would simply be much more boring: imagine a PES 5 with less rebounds, less fouls and less goals (shooting effectively is indeed harder). WE9LE is a PES 5 with less things happening, which needs longer playing times to have fun and experience a complete soccer match.

For your last inquiry, we're lucky that the ELAF AI tool (for PES 5 and WE9 only!) exists. It really makes the AI much more aware of football's basic goal, that is... scoring! The AI tries to score harder and with an increased offensive awareness. Also, it's more lethal when it has a chance. The ultimate challenge will always be to face humans, but this AI enhancer is well done and it fixes exactly what PES 5 missed. And if anyone wants to play some PES 5 online there's two discord groups to start with, @marqisspes6's Retro PES Club (https://discord.gg/AQnfXhtFb4) and also my EU-based group (https://discord.gg/y9Aj4U6FKK).