The Retro-PES Corner

Still haven't reached the winter transfer break on my Season 5 of my ML, the first one on the D1...I've done 1/4 of the season, let's put it that way. So far, we're well over anyone's expectations: currently sitting 3rd, just one point away from Bayern who's 2nd - though there's a lot of teams right below us with few point differential -; also just played the first leg of the first round of the D2 Cup and won away from home against Fenerbahçe with the following starting eleven: Fredriksson; Libermann, Baumann, Jackson; Iouga, Ettori, Dodo, Macco, Giersen; Hamsun and Burchet. Used this match to rest most of my usual starting-11 players (only Fredriksson, Baumann and Jackson remained) and still I got away with a 0-2 win.

Fatigue is a b****. We were used to the rhythm of the D2 with few matches per season and lots of weeks without fixtures to be played, now on D1 after 8 matches my starting-11 was on the break of exhaustion.

@geeeeee: Let's just say playing PES with no restrictions is a 2-star difficulty challenge. Many challenges on our Scenario Vault are 3-star and above, a few even get to 6-star difficulty. I think I said this before, but it's a way of spicing the game up and at least for me it has absolutely worked so far.
Regarding the discussion about the Generations mode, if your purpose is to get a roster of players which is objectively as good stats-wise as your competitors in a D1 environment, you'd better be a patient man. That's why I gave that name to the challenge: you might have to wait Generations until your team actually becomes good enough, AND you'll have to really nail it when it comes to choosing your newcomer, because if he turns out to be a bust you've just wasted a "pick".
Yet, I don't think there's a vicious cycle in it. Most people wouldn't know this, including myself because I always ended up selling most of the defaults, but there's potential in this team. Naturally I don't expect Valeny or Zamenhof to evolve into world-class players but give lots of minutes to Jaric, Fouque, Ordaz, Stein, Dodo and a few others over the course of a few years and you'll have a platform of good players to build upon. The thing is, most people don't believe in them so they sell these players and never get to see how good they actually can be. Then, like Matt did, you tell them Ordaz actually becomes a 90 shot-acc. player at 26 or that Jaric reaches the 93 FK. acc./+90 long pass./83 defense at 24 and you just shocked them.

I'm going to show a few players of mine just to provoke @mattmid a bit, because he's playing on PES6 and players like El Moubarki (a RB, which he desperately needs) and Gutierrez were only introduced in PES2008, sadly for him.

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He's not for sale Matt.
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Another default from the 2008 generation, like El Moubarki. Not bad heh?
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Also from the 2008 generation, only knows how to defend but does it very well.
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Jackson was my first newgen accquired back when Huylens retired. He's 22 I think.

@miguelfcp , I definitely agree about the fatigue thing going from master league Division 2 to Division 1 with a small squad. Not sure how much impact it has speed and agility wise in later PES titles like in PES 2008. But in PES 3, where speed differentials are still vast and a wet blanket of average ability has not been thrown over the gameplay, if you have a red arrow fitness default player like Macco or Espinas, they will crash through a couple of tackles like a bulldozer and shot power also gets a boost. :DD

And resting them for a couple of games is the way to get that fitness arrow.
 
@mattmid , you mentioned in earlier post, see I do read the updates. :TU: That you came up against Lionel Messi playing for a tiddler team like Wien, due to relegated Div 1 sided having near double the games to generate some points income.

Old Firm Green in the promotion playoffs in PES 3 last season had Zidane in their team, in his pomp. He did not get a kick, an attitude adjuster of a tackle from Macco and along with DMF his buddy Espinas they kept old Zizu quiet all game. :WORSHIP:
 
Question, how much more tough was the six star game difficulty rating in PES 4 and 5 ? Never bought these games. :SHOCK:
 
You know I haven't seen any down arrows in my ML in PES6? In PES3 there always seemed to be loads.
 
My Div 2 is mental. I just lost the first two games of the second half, the second one I was winning 2-0 and threw it away. Lokeren also lost there's as well now the league looks like this. Anyone for St Polten to win the league? Either the computer teams are getting better and better or my defending is getting worse and worse. It may be a combination of both i think!

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@WhoAteMeDinner Yeah I didn't play them but they are in my Div 1 (if Div 1 isn't a myth that is, I wouldn't know!) I spotted Messi as he charged up the goalscorers list. I think he's got those goals in 5 1/2 seasons, possibly even 4 1/2. It's my own fault for making some top teams's players to overwrite original free agents. Now they're being used against me.
 
My Div 2 is mental. I just lost the first two games of the second half, the second one I was winning 2-0 and threw it away. Lokeren also lost there's as well now the league looks like this. Anyone for St Polten to win the league? Either the computer teams are getting better and better or my defending is getting worse and worse. It may be a combination of both i think!


@WhoAteMeDinner Yeah I didn't play them but they are in my Div 1 (if Div 1 isn't a myth that is, I wouldn't know!) I spotted Messi as he charged up the goalscorers list. I think he's got those goals in 5 1/2 seasons, possibly even 4 1/2. It's my own fault for making some top teams's players to overwrite original free agents. Now they're being used against me.

@mattmid , aww jeez man, that sounds awful, all your dedicated faffing and foofing with the Options File, and the COM teams are the one's with the ML points to beat you over the head with it. :CRY:
 
You know I haven't seen any down arrows in my ML in PES6? In PES3 there always seemed to be loads.

That is very true, @Titch , mind you the fitness arrows in PES 6 means bugger all as every player moves around the pitch like they are playing on treacle and the ball travels like it is made of jam. :RANT:
 
@wildwind: Man, I'm signing the petition your fans created to replace Ivarov with someone else!

@Madmac79: If you're looking to use a high defensive line + offside trap, either you have really decent defenders or you'll get abused, even more so with the defaults. It's a very demanding strategy and honestly I don't think any football game has ever nailed the complexity of the defender's behaviors in that situation.
It would be great if you could clinch promotion right now, have you had any transfers in/out?

@WhoAteMeDinner: It seems that the more fatigue the player has, the more likely he is to have a blue arrow. @Titch, I too haven't had down arrows throughout the seasons but I'm seeing a lot of light-blue ones now that my players get much more fatigue than they ever did in D2.

@mattmid: This is the season man, I'm feeling it...I'm betting on you getting promoted, what are the odds right now?
Is Kremer to blame for your defensive record or is there something else going on back there?
Also, congratulations on Zamenhof's retirement! Finally, he's gone. Have any idea of who you'll bring in as a replacement?
 
I'm just 3 matches away from the winter break now. After that cup match win (first leg, 0-2 vs Fenerbahçe), the rested players' fatigue decreased around 30%, which has allowed me to keep playing them in the league fixtures; however, on the D1 Cup's second leg again I didn't play most of the usual starting-11, in order for me to get to play them all until the winter break without the need of further resting. It's a noticeably more lenient stamina/fatigue system than that of PES5 and I applaud it, seems more realistic as you can play your best players in the vast majority of the matches.

Castolo is the next guy to retire for me, he'll be the 3rd after Huylens and Minanda. It was a surprise for me as his stats haven't decreased (hell, he even upgraded his shot acc.), but over 5 seasons he barely played so it makes sense. He's 36 now, expected Iouga and Espimas to go first (both of them are 38 years old). Still have more than half of a season which could be used by more defaults to announce their retirements.
 
@miguelfcp It's a five horse race for promotion with 2 games to go. Odds are currently available at 3.50. I knew there was a reason Heracles was the last game of the season! And yes, they are one of the five!!

He hasn't really made a mistake this season like he did last season (several) but he just seems to let in an awful lot of 'soft' shots where you think, hmm, Ivarov would have saved that. Ivarov has played all the second half so far and we just seem more sound at the back. Experienced head perhaps. Kremer's stats are better all round and he's going to be first choice next season for certain. I'm sure he'll be excellent eventually with those stats. Don't know how the game handles it of course but in real football it's pretty rare for a teenager to be number 1 so I guess in that sense it's quite realistic really.

Stein just got banned so I moved Jaric into DM and he was sensational. I haven't played him there since he fully developed his stats, only in the first season I think. Won so many headers from the cpu keeper's kicks as well which Dodo and Stein struggle to do.

Ceciu is retiring along with Zamenhof this season so more decisions to be made and good timing IF I can finally get up to have two extra players to be able to select from.
 
just played a PES 5 game on PCSX2 (Me) Juv (CPU) ACM lost 2-0. I had 3 great changes but the keeper was a brick wall. I think PS2 version is better than PC. Also PES 5 seems to have stronger player stats than PES 3. Anyway it was a great football game! Why Konami doesn't come out with a retro PES for today built off this is baffling....
 
just played a PES 5 game on PCSX2 (Me) Juv (CPU) ACM lost 2-0. I had 3 great changes but the keeper was a brick wall. I think PS2 version is better than PC. Also PES 5 seems to have stronger player stats than PES 3. Anyway it was a great football game! Why Konami doesn't come out with a retro PES for today built off this is baffling....

PC versions are straight port from PS2, so no differences in gameplay. The input lag you get with the ps2 is what makes you think it is harder (i guess it is the same with pcsx2). What do you mean about PES 5 having stronger player stats than PES3 ? More influence ? Because for me it is the opposite.
 
PC versions are straight port from PS2, so no differences in gameplay. The input lag you get with the ps2 is what makes you think it is harder (i guess it is the same with pcsx2). What do you mean about PES 5 having stronger player stats than PES3 ? More influence ? Because for me it is the opposite.
input lag? could you explain? what has lag? controller?
i think top players in PES 5 are more dominant.
for me PS2 emulator is quicker game-play and AI is ruthless. My games have been great.
i watched mat10 on PC and it was slower then my games on emulator.
 
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@miguelfcp and @mattmid , just about to give up the default squad only challenge on PES 6. Five losses in row in season three and aggregate goals conceded is 17 already. It is just impossible for me I have to admit. Have heard that PS 2 versions of all PES games are tougher than the PC versions, but maybe I am just crap. :(:(:(


What you really need is to allow yourself to sign Kevin Davies. Big Sam's tactics worked bet with him :))

I conceded 30 odd in season 5, so don't beat yourself up about it. Over 20 this season too.
 
@miguelfcp I think making work a team with an obsessive offside trap could be a great field challenge on itself indeed. Something I'll probably try more seriously in the future.

In my ML I've only bought Chiesa but I immediately regret it: I never made him play, not even a minute.. defaults in Pes 3 are the perfect, balanced challenge until now.
 
input lag? could you explain? what has lag? controller?
i think top players in PES 5 are more dominant.
for me PS2 emulator is quicker game-play and AI is ruthless. My games have been great.
i watched mat10 on PC and it was slower then my games on emulator.

Input lag is basically the ps2 being slower to react to your commands than a pc. Back in the day, some old PCs could have input lag, but nowadays every PC runs PES 5 without input lag.
Trust me, i played for years PES on PS2 and there are no differences. Why would have Konami changed the gameplay ? They simply ported the ps2 game to pc.
Keep in mind that the speed can vary because of the PC system, kitserver settings, option file tweaks, refresh rates, TV/monitor. It explains why Matt10's gameplay could appear slower to you.
 
I would like to try PES 1 and 2 again. Even if it's laggy seeing the database would be interesting.
 
Domzale End Of Season 7 Update


The second half of the season got of to an awful start, losing 3-0 to Vardar the team I usually always beat comfortably. I couldn't get a thing going up front all game. Next up was GA Eagles. I raced into a 2-0 lead before giving a goal away in first half stoppage time. With 10 minutes they'd gone 3-2 up and managed to see it out. Fortunately elsewhere results were all over the place with leaders Lokeren also losing two in a row. The result of which mean bottom placed St Polten were within six points of promotion with 5 games to play.

Next was a trip to Poznan who I'd lost 5-3 to earlier in the season. This time it was a much tighter game with both sides defending well. Then on 86 minutes a huge goal from Hamsun won the game.

Things didn't get any easier as St Polten were up next who were getting themselves into the mix for promotion as well, as were most of the teams to be fair! A familiar feeling as we went 2-0 down by half time. We fought and fought in the second half and after 75 minutes we had managed to level things at 2-2. They kicked off and within seconds its 3-2 to them. :RANT: St Polten!


Three games to go and I had AZ, Lokeren and Heracles to play. All above me along with St Polten as well now.

The game started as tight as the last time (0-0) and both teams were unable to really make chances then late on in the half I nicked a goal through Fouque. Right after half time though AZ equalised. The game continued to be tight until Hamsun got in and poked the ball home past the onrushing keeper. 2-1. A nervous 15 minutes followed but we saw it out.

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Two games to go and five teams in with a chance of winning the league and probably six with a realistic chance of promotion.


Next were Lokeren, who I'd drawn and lost to in the cup and lost 3-0 in a 9 man effort in the league.

We started superbly going 1-0 up early on and dominating the first half. Jaric playing in DM was running the show. Intercepting or tackling to thwart just about every Lokeren attack, a massive display in a massive game. The second half we started well again and went 2-0 up and then played the best football the team has played to date. Completely dominant, every man up for it and playing well and ran out 4-0 winners! A majestic performance. But what of the results elsewhere?

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Results went really well. We were top with one game to go and Heracles to play... wait, haven't we been here before?! Why them? Why always them?

Just like last time as well a winner would ensure themselves of promotion, the loser probably missing out. A draw would be enough for us but a loss would very likely mean us losing out as we had no goal difference cushion on St Polten and Lokeren would overtake us with any positive result as of course would Heracles beating us.

The team were a little fatigued and a big call was made to leave out a tired Park and bring in Ordaz to start. Another big call saw Stein preferred over Dodo. Stein was fresh and to be honest playing the better of the two this season anyway. Jaric continued at DM as well.


The game started and with so much on it was very tight early on. We were a little cautious attacking, not wanting to get caught out and knowing a draw was enough. Then Liberrman made a mistake passing out of defence straight to a Heracles player. He got in for a shot but Ivarov saved well. The rest of the half continued to be very tight, we were just about on top but chances were at a premium for both sides. Armenteros or Heracles who has been a constant thorn in my side headed wide at a corner in probably their best chance. HT 0-0

Else where St Polten were a goal down and Lokeren were level. For the third time at half time on the final day if things stayed as they were I would be promoted.


The second half began well, we were starting to create chances and then Hamsun got a chance and buried it! 1-0! Now we had to prepare for a Heracles onslaught. They upped their game but Jaric was again immense in midfield then on 70 minutes we got a corner. He took it and somehow the smallest man on the pitch, Stein, found himself unmarked in the middle of the goal about 8 yds out and guided a header into the net! 2-0! He was mobbed as he ran to the corner flag. After all that's happened to Domzale no way were we counting our chickens yet though. There was plenty of time to throw this away yet.

The next ten minutes saw two Heracles chances, one saved by Ivarov, the other sent wide. The clock ticked around to 88 minutes and I went for it.

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Zamenhof came on for his first and final appearance! I was nervous about doing this even with so little time left!


Then as stoppage time started....

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Jaric rifled home a third canoning in off the underside of the bar and bouncing just behind the line. They thought it was all over, it is now!!


The ref blew for time and it was done. Domzale are promoted at the 7th attempt :BSCARF::BOP:

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Lokeren blew it on the final day by losing but St Polten (oh yes they had to come with me didn't they!!!) won. A result that meant I would have missed out on promotion had I lost!


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Champions! With our best points haul as well. We maybe got a little lucky as on at least three occasions that wouldn't have been enough points to go up. But unlike last season it was a very tight league this year.


Div 2 Player Of The Year Hanni (St Polten)

Div 2 Golden Boot Hamsun

Div 2 Assist Leader Macco


Domzale

Player Of The Year: Hamsun 6.5 12 goals, 1 assist

Young Player Of The Year: Herrero 6.0

Scorers: Hamsun 12, Park Jun-Hyun 7, Macco, Stein, Ordaz 2, Fouque, Jaric 1

Assists: Macco 5, Jaric 4, Park Jun-Hyun 2, Libermann(!), Fouque, Dodo, Hamsun 1

Ratings: Hamsun, Fouque 6.5, Jaric 6.4, Ruskin 6.3, Giersen 6.2, Ordaz 6.1



Great debut season for Herroro, very sound at the back from day 1 and Park who achieved more than was expected by some margin with 7 goals and 2 assists. He is making slow gains but Herrero is hurtling forward in his stats. He has already gained 8-9 across the board in his first season!

Hamsun continues to lead the line superbly and now has 44 career goals for Domzale with 8 assists. Macco leads the all time assists with 12, with Jaric one behind on 11. Fouque has another good season but still seems to not reach the heights his stats suggest. Giersen had his best season yet, very solid at right back whilst Stein and Dodo did their thing in the middle although Dodo still not back at his dizzy heights of 2-3 seasons back. Liberrman continues to do a job but I'd like him to become first back up now without having to play Jaric there as I'd like him to be main DM this season.

I have two signings to make and have bids in for a SM and a DM but both of whom can play several positions. The DM can play SM, CM, WB, SB and CB as well, whilst the other the SM, can play WB, SB, DM and CB. So this will give me plenty of options and enable me to hopefully rest players during the long season to come in Divison 1. If I can get them of course.
 
@WhoAteMeDinner: Generations mode is indeed a very tough challenge, but I'd suggest you tweak it up a bit if you'd like to keep playing it. Instead of waiting for a player to retire to bring in a new one, you could allow yourself to get one or two newgens at the end of each season, in an NBA-like "draft pick". Just an idea for those who currently find this challenge to be too hard.

@Madmac79: Over the last few years I've been obsessed with high defensive lines so I reproduced it into PES a lot. I find it best to use the offside trap manually instead of letting the game define it - at least on PES6 you're able to do this, don't know about PES3 - and if you want to reproduce Maurizio Sarri's Napoli line of defense I find it best to allign the 4 defenders, place them high up on the pitch and tuck in the sidebacks closer to the centre-backs, rather than hugging the sideline. As I told you I don't think you can reproduce it with 100% accuracy but this for me is the best configuration.

@Titch: Back when I spent months experimenting with every PES I owned, one of the games that surprised me the most was PES2, which I hadn't played for decades until then (unlike PES6, PES5, PES3 and a few other retro-PES which I played once in a while). I only played a few friendly matches but was impressed with the quality of the gameplay, definitely worth revisiting.

@mattmid: Congratulations! I had a feeling this was the season. It was tight as ever but your players handled the pressure very well and killed the ghost of Heracles to clinch promotion and the title. Now with Herrero and Park, combined with your next two signings (very curious to find out who you'll pick) I think you're absolutely ready for D1 football.
Wait, Zamenhof is alive? You were able to force him out of his permanent vacation, Matt for Manager of the Year!
I think your decision to drop Kremer for Ivarov was fundamental for your success. It mustn't have been an easy decision to drop your newly acquire newgen but you went for it and you won the bet.
 
@miguelfcp Thanks! I think the mentality of the new players must have played a bit of a part too in those final games plus the ever increasing mentality of the originals. It seemed like this time compared to previous run ins the players were on their game. The Lokeren performance was the best of the entire 7 seasons to date. To a man they were superb and a game I'd not really thought I'd be able to win I wiped the floor with them. Even then though with Heracles to play with them needing a win for promotion as well I thought no, not again!

I played a pre season game last night after the promotion and Kremer dropped a simple header to give another goal away. I have to put it down to his age at this stage I guess. His stats are still rising so he 'should' become a really good keeper in time. Not sure who to start with this season though. It's not as if I ever get a cup run to keep the other keeper busy either :LOL:

Zamenhof made it back after the offer of five minutes on the pitch. He did say he wouldn't be able to play if it was muddy though. He now has the proud honour of the only Domzale keeper never to let in a goal. A legend. There is still going to be an inquiry to find out what it is he's retiring from though.



My two new signings....


Duffy: Reg Pos DM. Can also play CB, SB, WB, CM, SM

ATT 63
DEF 76

Best stats as of now
Stamina 84
Speed 78
Acc 83
Response 73
Agility 95!
Jump 77 (header 42 though so not sure about him as a CB, might win the header but put it in his own net!)
Agg 81
Mentality 88
Condition 7
Height 180

Teamwork is a little lower than I'd have liked at 58 and passing at 60 (intriguingly he has a star for passing) but some really good stats already and the fact he can play in many positions which I really need now in Div 1 to keep the squad fresher. I think initially DM will be his main spot. His passing probably isn't good enough for out wide yet.

Karahan: Reg Pos SM. Can also play CB, SB, WB, DM

ATT 71
DEF 74

Balance 77
Stamina 79
Speed 76
Agility 81
Dribble 73
Pass 72
Header 73
Jump 74
Technique 72
Agg 80
Mentality 81
Teamwork 71
Height 180

Looks a great option anywhere down the right and shooting stats are high 60's so should improve nicely too hopefully so could be Macco's successor in time. Initially will probably share RB duties but cover elsewhere. Shame he's not a little bit taller but should still be a useful CB as well if needed.


Oh and Castolo, the greedy so and so, he held out until the last week and I had to give him 364 for the season!
 
PES 3: Won another two nice games. Burchet proves himself to be an incredible sub/special player once again and solve it from the bench with a great run in the box against Azur/Monaco.

In the subsequent game I beat Pes United with an header by Barota and a very good performance of Njorgo as an advanced midfielder, surpassing Longobarda just before the vital face off against them.. that's the situation:
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I was preparing myself to play an aggressive soccer against them, but now that I'm ahead I don't know whatever to play it safe or still go for a victory that would give me a great edge and some serenity in the last games of the season. I guess I'll check the conditions of my players and decide accordingly.

I don't know how it will end but overall this has been proven to be a really great virtual soccer experience so far, when I half jokingly started this Master League I wouldn't have tought to reach this nice levels of depth/balance and subsequently storytelling. This has been a beautiful reminder of why stats/attributes heavy based soccer games felt so good. Hell, that's what this whole magnificent thread basically is.
 
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