PES 2019 Discussion Thread (PS4, XB1)

[Lons]

I dont agree. Its feels like an unfinished game.

The game is unfinished in content department.

 

[Superhoop]

The conclusion is that PES 15 released on 10.11 was the best Pes without stupid issues. Pes 5/6 released around 15.11 and these games were good too. Its mean they should released game later. Konami thougt that earlier released game make better sales to compete with EA but in this moment this strategy is wrong.

The problem is, you'd need a 14 month development gap between games based on the release gap between PES 2014 and PES 2015. You'd have a game coming out in January after a November release date, then March the following year etc. You do still need to be releasing a game earlier into a season or it just won't sell. November is the very latest it should be and even then I think that's too late. You should be able to get an annual football game at the start of each season when transfers are complete.

 

[darkoj2007]

You can switch the target off in settings. I dont like any targets on the pitch. Thats why I dont use Advance Through balls. But Advance shooting target can be switched of.

@darkoj2007
I dont think AI wing obsession depends on our playing style, pal.
But agree with you - it can limit it.
When I play on manual and careful at the back, they try to search for other options. But they feel like starving vegetarians trying to eat meat. They will have few bites, but the minute carrot is available, they will jump on it.
Best proof of AI having issues is when they slow down the attack, or dont shoot in one-on-one situations, just to tick the box that they passed to the wing. The second wing option is there, they grab it with both hands (or legs in that case). And sometimes they have another few options for good pass, yet they still pick the wing.
It just doesnt feel natural.
I've learn a bit how to secure it at the back. Like you said - i dont rush, cover the back, manually switching players at the back to cut off passing lanes..
But it has to be addressed coz its definetely an issue. We shouldnt be spending whole match worrying about wings. We should be worrying about attacks from every direction and distance.

yes I agree completly. It must be adressed! we can just stop them occasionally but their first choice willl be to attack from the wings. I hope for quick fix and to start master league

 

[Superhoop]

Or delayed the release of the full game, which was that other posters original point.

But by delaying it you're suggesting that the developers would have spotted the ai issues themselves? That's fine to delay if they actually launch a proper beta where they will gather feedback and act on it, but it seems they only respond to feedback for fixing in the following game rather than making fixes to the current game.

 

[Goldstone]

They would have needed to release a beta a month or two earlier than they did for them to be able to implement any changes before release. It wasn't a beta anyway. Just a demo of the final game. They would also need to make the games at least 10 mins long so people can actually pick out any faults properly. This is something they should do going forward. It's free testing and would avoid people complaining about the final product on release. As i've said, the gameplay is fine. They should shift the focus onto fixing the ai now.

This is what's frustrating. We've potentially got one of the best iterations of PES in over a decade for gameplay and that magic PES feel. On the other hand we've got possibly the worst attacking A.i I've seen in a very long time.

It's so close yet so far from being a masterpiece for the offline gamer. When you add everything else up like dated menus, boring ML etc it just leaves such a sour taste in the mouth as to what might of been. To have the game play this good and such a terrible job done with the A.i coding is baffling.

I still hold out some hope that they can fix the A.i,. but not much.

 

[Matt10]

Streaming right now if anyone is bored and wanting to watch me not lose...by much?

Only a handful of times did I get upset about how the game played, in terms of low crossing, backheel passing, etc. However, overall, enjoyable.

Look at how the AI attacks. They build up. They go direct, they push forward, they go crazy and sprint, or they play conservative. I get caught out when I can't control my DMF, and my slow CBs can't play a high defensive line as I thought they could.

Plenty of crosses, mixed with low and high. Some shots from outside the box, but I definitely want more, much more.

Without knowing of PES 2019's current state, and you would watch those matches, it'd be really hard to say that it isn't playing a decent game of football.

That's not saying it is where I want, not at all. However, for what we can control right now, the game is playing good. The items of crossing, shooting and GK rush, are the highest priority of concern for me right now - and once they are addressed and fixed, this game will rank as one of the better ones out there.

 

[Chris Davies]

and once they are addressed and fixed, this game will rank as one of the better ones out there.

This is the issue I have, Matt. As @Chuny said above, it's yet another case of "once this thing's fixed it'll be great" - but it never is. So what we're left with is half a game - that gets lauded for being half-great.

As far as I'm concerned, Professional is way too easy, Top Player and above start warping the AI's play to the point where the biggest issues start appearing all the time (desperate wing play, deliberately ignoring shooting opportunities, tiki-taka from low-skilled teams). If you only play offline, it's game-breaking.

If they fix this stuff, I will be the first to say that it's a fantastic game - because at that point it will be, in my opinion. Until then it's a broken game with a lot of potential, in my opinion.

 

[Emroth]

We've potentially got one of the best iterations of PES in over a decade for gameplay and that magic PES feel. On the other hand we've got possibly the worst attacking A.i I've seen in a very long time.

This statement sums up everything perfectly. Couldnt agree more!

 

[Chuny]

I dont agree. Its feels like an unfinished game.

Hey mate, feel free to disagree. It enriches us.

@Chuny agree with the tone of your post. From what I understood, this game is unsurprisingly a 360 degrees mess, I'm sure a lot of people is cutting some slack to it in good faith tho.. if you don't like Fifa and you can't play older titles you have no football alternatives, plus there is some good here and there. I can see why somebody might force himself to only see the positive.

Still, I think objectively we should demand way more from them. I'm not sure how many other productions with a name as big as PES is wouldn't face a way bigger backlash for such a not cured title..



Yes. Even because, all I'm hearing is the low crosses, the GK stucked and the striker turning away from the goal problem, but what about stars not dribbling? Or long shooters, well, not shooting? Or teams still not having defined personalities? Forget for a second that in 2019 we should have and expect an IA way, WAAY more complex and refined than this, but how can't it break immersion to play against Neymar or Mbappè to never see them try to dribble their markers with consistency?

Every time I have the vague temptation of buy it, I randomly pick one of the things this game lacks and it's so easy to desist..

Thank you for agreeing. It enriches me.

 

[chiefrocka4real]

The conclusion is that PES 15 released on 10.11 was the best Pes without stupid issues. Pes 5/6 released around 15.11 and these games were good too. Its mean they should released game later. Konami thougt that earlier released game make better sales to compete with EA but in this moment this strategy is wrong.

Each to their own, but I hated PES 2015!

Strange low pass physics, steelcage nets and CPU low shot into the corner etc.
From 2014 what they could have done, they went into a whole lot different direction imho.

PES 2019 feels a bit like 2014 to me.

Sry for OT.

 

[Nacho10]

But by delaying it you're suggesting that the developers would have spotted the ai issues themselves? That's fine to delay if they actually launch a proper beta where they will gather feedback and act on it, but it seems they only respond to feedback for fixing in the following game rather than making fixes to the current game.

The fact that they can't spot such obvious issues by themselves should be a slight concern surely! It's a bit like being a fireman and not spotting your fire station is burning down.

 

[robbieryan]

Seems they need a lot if they can't recognise the issue in development!

in development of PES2018 you mean? issue existed then and its even got worse this year, no excuse at all for not fixing it. absolutely embarrasing

 

[Superhoop]

This statement sums up everything perfectly. Couldnt agree more!

2016 had far worse ai though. Some areas the ai has improved in 2019, but others it has gone backwards or brought in issues we'd not had before. To balance out the argument in favour of the latest ai, they do adjust their tactics to how you're playing and it is noticeable. They also now have an urgency to score when they go behind or are drawing and desperate for a win. They are also doing more aggressive tackles with some teams and the over-use of the chip-through ball down the wing is no longer there. These were all issues flagged in 2018 and at least Konami did fix those for 2019.

BUT... we just have some new issues instead.

 

[Matt10]

This is the issue I have, Matt. As @Chuny said above, it's yet another case of "once this thing's fixed it'll be great" - but it never is. So what we're left with is half a game - that gets lauded for being half-great.

As far as I'm concerned, Professional is way too easy, Top Player and above start warping the AI's play to the point where the biggest issues start appearing all the time (desperate wing play, deliberately ignoring shooting opportunities, tiki-taka from low-skilled teams). If you only play offline, it's game-breaking.

If they fix this stuff, I will be the first to say that it's a fantastic game - because at that point it will be, in my opinion. Until then it's a broken game with a lot of potential, in my opinion.

Completely agree, and I'm not saying that isn't the case here. However, I'm also not one to say for certain this or that won't be fixed. They wouldn't say it would be fixed anyways. Look at how the positioning has improved, the teammate AI has improved, they never said this was going to be something they were improving on year over year - yet it has.

The problem with KONAMI is they never admit defeat. They want to show transparency, but that can't be shown without reducing one's pride first. It starts at the top and needs to work its way down. A sense of proud of accomplishments is one thing, but admitting of issues based on feedback has never been their strong-suit.

Yet, that won't stop me from enjoying what is laid in front of me, at this current time. I'm making the best of it, and the gameplay shows on video that it is beneficial to the experience. It's 100% not perfect, but I haven't fallen asleep to a match yet like I did in PES 2018 multiple times.

There are a lot of unexpected things like AI passing mistakes, physicality and collisions, that really make that part of the game enjoyable. Logically, the issues have already been stated - and you know that's where I live most of the time. The fact that I can still enjoy an ML (first time in years) but also remain focused on testing everything under the sun to fix the "Big 3" (GK Rush, CPU shooting, Low Cross), is some form of a testament to the base of the game.

 

[JUNELELE]

But by delaying it you're suggesting that the developers would have spotted the ai issues themselves? That's fine to delay if they actually launch a proper beta where they will gather feedback and act on it, but it seems they only respond to feedback for fixing in the following game rather than making fixes to the current game.

I'm not suggesting anything, just countering the arguments you stated yourself.

If they only respond to feedback and fix it in the following game, then why did you previously say:

If they do the sensible thing and actually listen to this feedback, then they could actually sort the ai out within a month or two.

?

So by your logic, yes, a 1 or 2 month delay would have been beneficial for the game.

 

[Superhoop]

The fact that they can't spot such obvious issues by themselves should be a slight concern surely! It's a bit like being a fireman and not spotting your fire station is burning down.

I completely agree with you. It's a huge concern, but very evident! I just think they spend all their time playing 1 v 1 offline (highlighted by all the tours they do are geared towards 1 v 1), so no-one is really testing offline ai properly. Something is clearly wrong on their side. Or, they're holding back on the perfect game so they can make "improvements" each year. They threw everything at PES 2013, but that was the last of the PS3 generation before Fox engine. Their big selling point for 2014 was Fox. It's also the only PES i never bought as I preferred the feature rich 2013.

 

[philla]

This is what's frustrating. We've potentially got one of the best iterations of PES in over a decade for gameplay and that magic PES feel. On the other hand we've got possibly the worst attacking A.i I've seen in a very long time.

The (attacking) AI has issues without doubt. But it is nowhere as bad as the quite recent editions of 2016 and 2017. Even when it´s far from perfect, PES2019 is the most playable game since 2015, even if it remains unpatched (what you have to assume unfortunatly).

I don´t want to shorten the disappointment and the constant critical and justified feedback on twitter etc., but please remember where we are coming from:




Please note: Superstar

 

[Matt10]

I completely agree with you. It's a huge concern, but very evident! I just think they spend all their time playing 1 v 1 offline (highlighted by all the tours they do are geared towards 1 v 1), so no-one is really testing offline ai properly. Something is clearly wrong on their side. Or, they're holding back on the perfect game so they can make "improvements" each year. They threw everything at PES 2013, but that was the last of the PS3 generation before Fox engine. Their big selling point for 2014 was Fox. It's also the only PES i never bought as I preferred the feature rich 2013.

I think they are simply skewing the testing. They are testing 1v1, and if they are playing offline, they are testing big club v big club, which have players with specific traits that would mask/hide the issues at hand. The goalkeeper one, to me, would be questionable on who was actually paying attention as that is glaring.

 

[Superhoop]

Each to their own, but I hated PES 2015!

Strange low pass physics, steelcage nets and CPU low shot into the corner etc.
From 2014 what they could have done, they went into a whole lot different direction imho.

PES 2019 feels a bit like 2014 to me.

Sry for OT.

2016 had all the low shots to the corner. Shooting by the ai in 2015 was actually really varied. I really liked 2015 at the time. Was very basic in terms of presentation, animations and modes, but to me it was a good base point for the move onto PS4.

 

[darkoj2007]

Each to their own, but I hated PES 2015!

Strange low pass physics, steelcage nets and CPU low shot into the corner etc.
From 2014 what they could have done, they went into a whole lot different direction imho.

PES 2019 feels a bit like 2014 to me.

Sry for OT.

I remember back in summer 2013 when Konami released all those videos of Pes 2014, I was amazed how good animations and physics is but release of that game was slimmest pes ever imo. Had a good but limited gameplay, not to mention horredous menus but was simulation. With Pes 2015 they went on more arcade mode to satisfy wide audience. I liked pes 2015 but that game has also flaws with headers and little niggles which affected overall picture. Don`t want to sound like most positive person but this years game has something special about gameplay, I just hope that issues we face were fixable with patch. If they are smart they will keep this gameplay for future releases and just upgrade some new animations for shooting and get rid of some odd too. Finally they have not alibi not to improve modes which are cancer to the series...

 

[Superhoop]

I'm not suggesting anything, just countering the arguments you stated yourself.

If they only respond to feedback and fix it in the following game, then why did you previously say:



?

So by your logic, yes, a 1 or 2 month delay would have been beneficial for the game.

I did say that would be "the sensible thing" but they don't currently do that. I wish they would! A 1 or 2 month delay would be great if they actually did a beta where they took feedback on board. I agree with you on that!

 

[chiefrocka4real]

2016 had all the low shots to the corner. Shooting by the ai in 2015 was actually really varied. I really liked 2015 at the time. Was very basic in terms of presentation, animations and modes, but to me it was a good base point for the move onto PS4.

Well then it was probably 2016, which I hated either .
These two games made me play EA´s game.
Specially 16 was good and PES 2017 made me come back.

 

[chiefrocka4real]

I remember back in summer 2013 when Konami released all those videos of Pes 2014, I was amazed how good animations and physics is but release of that game was slimmest pes ever imo. Had a good but limited gameplay, not to mention horredous menus but was simulation. With Pes 2015 they went on more arcade mode to satisfy wide audience. I liked pes 2015 but that game has also flaws with headers and little niggles which affected overall picture. Don`t want to sound like most positive person but this years game has something special about gameplay, I just hope that issues we face were fixable with patch. If they are smart they will keep this gameplay for future releases and just upgrade some new animations for shooting and get rid of some odd too. Finally they have not alibi not to improve modes which are cancer to the series...

Yeah, I agree.

I was amazed by 2014´s gameplay vids and those animations.
Too bad it was so poor optimized and developed, but the base was something to build on.

I also agree about PES 2019.
Sure it has flaws, not to mention about that D2 league fiasco and everything off the pitch that happened.

But the positives of the gameplay weigh so much more to me than the negatives and I keep enjoying it a lot.
I understand if there are gamebreaking issues for people, but to me they don´t bug me that much to hate the whole game.
I hope that won´t change.

 

[mfmaxpower]

Only a handful of times did I get upset about how the game played, in terms of low crossing, backheel passing, etc. However, overall, enjoyable.

Look at how the AI attacks. They build up. They go direct, they push forward, they go crazy and sprint, or they play conservative. I get caught out when I can't control my DMF, and my slow CBs can't play a high defensive line as I thought they could.

Plenty of crosses, mixed with low and high. Some shots from outside the box, but I definitely want more, much more.

Without knowing of PES 2019's current state, and you would watch those matches, it'd be really hard to say that it isn't playing a decent game of football.

That's not saying it is where I want, not at all. However, for what we can control right now, the game is playing good. The items of crossing, shooting and GK rush, are the highest priority of concern for me right now - and once they are addressed and fixed, this game will rank as one of the better ones out there.

As someone who is usually detailed-oriented when it comes to the AI behavior, I'm quite shocked that you think so highly of this. Just look at some of the videos I posted (including my last reply to you) and tell me how with such poor AI behavior - in attacking play but equally if not more so in defending - how could this be considered one of the better ones out there.

And as Chris said, all this gets way worse when you start upping the difficulty levels, to the point it's just an exasperating experience.

And that's just AI. You then also have the total lack of an aerial game because headers are so underpowered if not next to impossible, and that removes a massive strategic approach to football. And there's equally the near total absence of long shots. And it's not like there aren't other issues too.

This game is way too much an unfinished product on the field to be considered one of the better football games, even if it captures ball physics and player movement better than anything that's come before.

 

[Emroth]

If they are smart they will keep this gameplay for future releases and just upgrade some new animations for shooting and get rid of some odd too.

Yes. I agree. Kinda like FIFA did with 18/19. 18 had solid (IMO) gameplay, 19 is just little step up with animations. People playing FIFA are dissapointed because its a very similar game. But PES can focus on other areas, having gameplay just tweaked. There is a lot of areas in PES which are begging to be upgraded, so game wouldnt feel the same.

Ps. I cant understand how they didnt fix handshake by now! They are still grabbing each others elbows!

 

[PESFANnWENBisDEAD]

The conclusion is that PES 15 released on 10.11 was the best Pes without stupid issues. Pes 5/6 released around 15.11 and these games were good too. Its mean they should released game later. Konami thougt that earlier released game make better sales to compete with EA but in this moment this strategy is wrong.

Like 2 months is gonna make the difference. Work on a PES game is not 1 year, they start way before. While they were doing 19 they were already working on what to do for 20. They just try to build on top of the same thing every year always taking one step forward another back, or 2 back lol.

PES15 still be on PS4, sad to say....

 

[Danny Henry]

I dont agree. Its feels like an unfinished game.

I call that on first day playing the demo. I was hoping that the AI problems was going to be sort it out on full game. Still dont bought the game.

 

[DaWolf]

Whats really sad is that this could be the best PES game of all time if there werent so many game breaking issues like CPU AI, Goalkeepers stuck on the line, Weak headers and superhuman goalkeepers on shots.

I really dont understand how people on playtests / the dev team / the PR team etc. couldnt see these issues.

Everything else is soo damn good.

 

[Superhoop]

Well then it was probably 2016, which I hated either .
These two games made me play EA´s game.
Specially 16 was good and PES 2017 made me come back.

Yeah 2017 fixed a lot of things. Shot variation came back being the most noticeable one. The main problem with 2017 was that the ai never passed backwards. That or, the ai would just run forwards with the ball and into one of my players. 2018 actually had the fewest issues in my eyes. The main ones being lack of fouls, no penalties and no injuries. I have been tempted to go back to it as I was enjoying my ML career on it recently, but 2019 is still doing enough at the moment to stop me from going back.

 

[Superhoop]

Yeah, I agree.

I was amazed by 2014´s gameplay vids and those animations.
Too bad it was so poor optimized and developed, but the base was something to build on.

I also agree about PES 2019.
Sure it has flaws, not to mention about that D2 league fiasco and everything off the pitch that happened.

But the positives of the gameplay weigh so much more to me than the negatives and I keep enjoying it a lot.
I understand if there are gamebreaking issues for people, but to me they don´t bug me that much to hate the whole game.
I hope that won´t change.

I've had the best offline 1v1 games on 2019 since 2013. That's one reason alone that i won't be getting a refund. I'm pretty sure we're all in agreement that the game plays great, right? Regardless of anyone's opinion on ai.