PES 2019 Discussion Thread (PS4, XB1)

Please don't tell me we're going down that "but some teams DO hammer the wings!!!" route again.

Not every real team does, yet every team in PES does. Particularly in the ML, as @rockstrongo has said before, because a low "Team Spirit" means the AI looks to use its most foolproof method of scoring.

There are complaints in here of the AI never shooting from range (because they don't). Some teams never shoot from range, because their manager would kill them for giving up possession. But most teams do, for God's sake.

If we can't even agree on something as basic as this, we're giving Konami license to make a football game where every team plays like Barcelona. We're already well on the way to that.

It's obvious to me that the AI hammers the low-cross method when you're the worse team and they're "supposed" to win, because it knows low-crosses and first-time shots are guaranteed goals (someone posted some screenshots where the AI scored every shot on target). Playing with tactics to prevent this doesn't change the AI's decision-making code.

Therefore, teams aren't hitting the wings because of their tactics - they're hitting the wings when they "should" score, and potentially ignoring it when they "shouldn't". Which is a really, really basic way to make a game work.

EDIT: Thinking about it, it's how it worked last year - with the AI spamming lofted through-balls because it gave them the best chance of scoring. It just doesn't have the intelligence to score without resorting to this sort of thing.
 
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Just played a superstar game, Newcastle at home yo man city, 12 mins. (Nuevo triumfo is a great standing for st James from gameplay can at least).

Not one, not a single silly low pass or low cross into my box and my defence is set to contain middle so there is space on the flanks.
Sane and Mendy have delivered 5 or 6 night crosses from all angles into my box. They have tata led through the middle using slide rule and lofted passes.

Most noticeable is that players are dribbling more with the ball. Still not quite proper sane or sterling type dribbling but they're dribbling say ten yards at my defence then passing.
And...this is really interesting, Kdb and Silva are dribbling with the ball across the pitch which means...I can actually get tackles and fouls in. This is so surprising because I've been fed up of not being able to lay a glove on the ai.
I've noticed players generally holding onto the ball too in similar vein.

Now...this could all be a one match aberration. It could be a fluke.
It's not placebo thoigh I assure you all. This is happening clear as day, the change being as subtle as a sledgehammer.

But...again, not claiming anything on behalf of this game. Just thrive had one wonderful.match where my stomach is not sinking at having to overlook the games flaws so I can enjoy how sublime it is on the ball.

I've also noticed this playing against man Utd where Sanchez actually dribbled me.

And against Chelsea, I'm through into the box with salah, and kepa came out to half way between six yard line and penalty spot to close me down. I had the ball, it wasn't a through ball we were both chasing down.
I was so shocked, I fumbled the controller and put it out for a throw using circle!!
 
FShas said:
Not one, not a single silly low pass or low cross into my box and my defence is set to contain middle so there is space on the flanks
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One point on that - contain middle means that you will be pushing oponnent from flanks into the middle. It is actually one of the firefighting methods against low crossing. If you had it set to Wide your team would push them towards flanks increasing the risk of low crossing.
Unless Im wrong on this - someone please correct me.
 
fefepes said:
Game is a bit of a joke online. Too many games you cannot keep the ball for even a micro second before disposseded by pressure and defence go awol to allow goals in.

Will give it one last chance local multiplayer on weekend and if does not impress will return it.
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It goes from one extreme to the other for me - sometimes I can comfortably beat these pressure spammers... Keeping the ball easily with shielding, beating players with LS body feints etc.

Other matches, no matter what I do it seems that any angle they tackle from with any player, they emerge with the ball... My players don't even try to shield the ball, ref doesn't give any FKs, and all their players have like a 1m auto tackle radius if I go near them...

Maybe it's slight button delay caused by lag - the player on the left/home side is the "host", and seems to play lag free... Could be tactics to some extent too, if anyone has any tips for formations/tactics that work well against the typical online players I'm all ears...

Ranked multiplayer is pretty horrible in this game though - I prefer to just play from the friendly lobby, friendly quick match or private matches with people on Discord/Steam. Ranked online divisions/MyClub 99% of people are just playing the "meta" e-sports style cheese tactics. Been that way pretty much since online football games began though, remember PES6 Adriano cheese?...
 
Emroth said:
One point on that - contain middle means that you will be pushing oponnent from flanks into the middle. It is actually one of the firefighting methods against low crossing. If you had it set to Wide your team would push them towards flanks increasing the risk of low crossing.
Unless Im wrong on this - someone please correct me.
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Right, see what you mean. I tend set all my teams to middle contain though and I've had all the problems with the ai till today.


Playing as West ham now, with contain set wide and Chelsea are going down the middle with one two's and through balls, jorginho playing them from 40 yards away for hazard and Willian...
And some high crosses.
Also hazard and Willian actually carrying ball forward, none of that silly check, pass back then run off for a through ball which is nauseating.
Been no checking back, once they're through they've charged at my goal and shot.

Again, no claims being made here. Just my experience this morning...
 
Chris Davies said:
Please don't tell me we're going down that "but some teams DO hammer the wings!!!" route again.

Not every real team does, yet every team in PES does. Particularly in the ML, as @rockstrongo has said before, because a low "Team Spirit" means the AI looks to use its most foolproof method of scoring.

There are complaints in here of the AI never shooting from range (because they don't). Some teams never shoot from range, because their manager would kill them for giving up possession. But most teams do, for God's sake.

If we can't even agree on something as basic as this, we're giving Konami license to make a football game where every team plays like Barcelona. We're already well on the way to that.

It's obvious to me that the AI hammers the low-cross method when you're the worse team and they're "supposed" to win, because it knows low-crosses and first-time shots are guaranteed goals (someone posted some screenshots where the AI scored every shot on target). Playing with tactics to prevent this doesn't change the AI's decision-making code.

Therefore, teams aren't hitting the wings because of their tactics - they're hitting the wings when they "should" score, and potentially ignoring it when they "shouldn't". Which is a really, really basic way to make a game work.

EDIT: Thinking about it, it's how it worked last year - with the AI spamming lofted through-balls because it gave them the best chance of scoring. It just doesn't have the intelligence to score without resorting to this sort of thing.
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so, should i do the test again like last night, but switching Arsenal for example Watford(vs. Man United)? this should force Man United to spam the wings because i play the lesser team, right!?
 
PRO_TOO said:
so, should i do the test again like last night, but switching Arsenal for example Watford(vs. Man United)? this should force Man United to spam the wings because i play the lesser team, right!?
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I'd say an even bigger gap between the two teams will give you a better idea - or better still, a new Master League game with a team who have poor Team Spirit.

Filippo-Inzaghi said:
But there isn't any new patch, so why claiming that everything suddenly changed?
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There's been no code changes. I think people are just experimenting with things as time goes on.

Also, I'd say you see more if you record yourself and watch it back than by just playing the game. I've said before that I've played a game that's felt super-fast - then watching a video back, it's actually not. It just feels it - probably because of the AI's pressing game.

@Matt10 was streaming the game upon release and having a great time, but watching his feed as he was playing, it was absolutely obscene the amount of low-crosses the AI was hitting (he was playing in the Dutch league). Sounds strange but it's much more obvious when you play it back. Just a thought!
 
chiefrocka4real said:
Got to say, I find that very interesting either.
Absolutely trusting those guys on here!
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I havent played it over than a week, so I was checking if anything changed in the meantime. And it did download some minor patch when I kicked it off.
So far no luck for me. They play the same even with all the crazy tactics and settings that supposed to minimize it.

One thing that I didnt see and I consider it improvement - even tho they were all dying to go into the wings most of the time, they didnt pass it to the wing when it was idiotic to do so.
Whenever they had opportunity or were through on goal - they went for it.
 
Reading the last few pages has been hilarious.
Firstly, there has been NO patch, so nothing has changed, the AI hasnt changed, or anything, game play is the same.
Secondly, changing to Top Player and playing manual doesn't change the AI one tiny bit.
Lastly, playing Exhibition matches is completely different from playing a Master League.

TS doesn't exist in exhibition matches, every team is at 100%. ML completely ramps up the AI fuckery.

I played ML last night. Professional, PA1, in 4 consecutive matches I had more shots, more shots on target, more pass completion, more corners, more free kicks, much more possession, and I lost all 4 games, often when the CPU had just 2 shots on goal and scored them both, and every goal, in every match, was a result of the Low Cross spam, from the wing into the box, first time shot, or Low cross in, first time backheel, then a first time shot. Every goal.

Nothing has changed here boys. NOTHING.

You get 'session to session variance' which has been in PES since the PES 2 days, where each session on the game feels a little different but the over-arching fact is that there has been NO patch, NO change to AI, and LCS is still massively evident in every match.

I also did a test, came out of ML and played an exhibition match with the exact same teams, exact formations, exact lineup, exact stadium and exact settings. It played differently, not many LCS at all, still a few, and still Overpowered but much less than the ML match.

I then played an offline cup, and several other exhibition matches using various teams, LCS was very minimal, they were some of the best matches I've ever had on a PES game, back into ML after - LCS was ramped right up again.

I've tried ML on professional, Top Player and Superstar, ironically, Superstar was the level that played more balanced ot of the lot of them,. but LCS was still there.

The AI is shit, was shit, and still is shit, nothing has changed.
 
I played 3 matches before work...absoultey no changes. CPU still goes to wing....low cross....goal [or nearly a goal]

tried 1 match on professional [way too easy], one on Top Player and one on Superstar. All the same, CPU just plays less aggressively the easier setting is on.

This game is done unless they release a gameplay patch.
 
There is definite change for me, please not I'm playing in vs mode and in 3 matches I've had 1 low cross, more dribbling (basic level & a few tricks) and some shots from range, it's not perfect and maybe nothing has happened, but all I can say is it's been much more enjoyable than recent matches, placebo or not.
 
Weird that people reporting no change, the videos for me speak for themselves and ive posted quite a few regarding the wing spam on here and on twitter to Adam and co...for me it was instant change which is why on my video the last page i cycled through different teams to see if it was an Italian league thing but Man U and West ham did the same thing. Now i am not saying they never tried the low cross because they did but it certainly wasn't 9 out of 10 attacks. It's not even 5/10. Each to their own but i have no reason, and i'm guessing no one else has, to make stuff up because i just don't.

I am going to check again tonight outside of Exhibition to see what happens - Konami also had server down notices last night so maybe they could push small updates - who knows
 
Filippo-Inzaghi said:
Just a thought. If they actually did fix it, wouldnt they update the patch section?
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Some people think that if they patched it, they wouldn't admit it, because that would be to admit that it was broken.

I was one of those people but I have to admit, after the Master League transfer apology, I think I've changed my mind - and that if anything, given the big drop in sales, they'd be eager to say "we're still working on this game, please buy it".

hitmanuk said:
Weird that people reporting no change
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It really isn't though, is it? The patches don't even say "general fixes" like the old patch notes used to any more. They're literally saying nothing has changed. If anything is "weird", it's that people are seeing differences when there's been no gameplay patch. Surely. (Not to say that what you're seeing isn't real!)
 
So people here are telling me that if I go into my Master League and playing, then I wouldn't experience low crosses in a weird way?

Sometimes I really think that people are hoping so much, that suddenly "feel" anything.

If they patch in and actually write the numbers in the top of my screen I will believe. Until then I wouldn't let feelings affect facts.
 
My worry is, believe it or not, forums like these are monitored for feedback (although Evo-Web much less so now, we're seen as a hive of haters).

If they suddenly start reading that everyone thinks low-crosses are "fixed", when they've done nothing... They will remove it from their list of potential fixes.
 
listen guys ill just leave it for now - i dont feel the changes i can see them on the videos but like you say there is no patch so probably no change
 
@hitmanuk - I could jump on PES 19 now and record a video, of me playing 10 matches in a row and you would see beyond any reasonable doubt, that LCS is rife in every single match.
Because you recorded one video of a game that had few instances does not mean there has been a fix.

Konami taking servers down for maintenance is purely load balancing for online, it DOES NOT affect offline, and no patches or DLC or anything that affects game mechanics can be pushed viaa maintenance window, a patch or DLC file HAS to be downloaded to the console in order for anything to take effect.

@Filippo-Inzaghi - NO! If you read the posts correct Im saying that Master League RAMPS UP the Low cross spamming, not fixes it.
 
I played three games this morning and noticed no change. A single half was pretty good though, mostly with the AI using regular crosses. Rest was the usual stuff.
I have seen the AI try different stuff from the beginning, it has never really been 100% wing play low cross exclusive. More like 80-90%. I have even had whole matches with almost reasonable AI behaviour. Pretty sure that was just luck.
 
rojofa said:
It goes from one extreme to the other for me - sometimes I can comfortably beat these pressure spammers... Keeping the ball easily with shielding, beating players with LS body feints etc.

Other matches, no matter what I do it seems that any angle they tackle from with any player, they emerge with the ball... My players don't even try to shield the ball, ref doesn't give any FKs, and all their players have like a 1m auto tackle radius if I go near them...

Maybe it's slight button delay caused by lag - the player on the left/home side is the "host", and seems to play lag free... Could be tactics to some extent too, if anyone has any tips for formations/tactics that work well against the typical online players I'm all ears...

Ranked multiplayer is pretty horrible in this game though - I prefer to just play from the friendly lobby, friendly quick match or private matches with people on Discord/Steam. Ranked online divisions/MyClub 99% of people are just playing the "meta" e-sports style cheese tactics. Been that way pretty much since online football games began though, remember PES6 Adriano cheese?...
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It is scripting not lag. When you cannot shield the other guy is getting a great winning game. game after he will have a bad game and you have a good one.

If it was once every 7 games you could blame lag. Not when its a pattern.

Konami are pathetic
 
Emroth said:
I have no idea what is going on myself. Im not saying that you guys are lying. I believe you. And Im also being honest.

I thought that, maybe, like transfer patch note says - it will not affect old saves and you have to start fresh. So I did. Fresh CL.
Same thing. Played on Top Player like you guys
(btw. Thanks, @rockstrongo - HUM passing on Top Player do seems better and (when Im on the ball its really enjoyable)

Oh and remaining 20% of goals i conceives was CPU destroying top corner of the goal from 6 yards. Not a single low shot either.

No idea whats happening..
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Nice man, professional feels wierd at times,I prefer top player
 
Chris Davies said:
My worry is, believe it or not, forums like these are monitored for feedback (although Evo-Web much less so now, we're seen as a hive of haters).

If they suddenly start reading that everyone thinks low-crosses are "fixed", when they've done nothing... They will remove it from their list of potential fixes.
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Absolutely.

Thing is now, apart from here, where really is there for them to read feedback?
 
Chris Davies said:
My worry is, believe it or not, forums like these are monitored for feedback (although Evo-Web much less so now, we're seen as a hive of haters).

If they suddenly start reading that everyone thinks low-crosses are "fixed", when they've done nothing... They will remove it from their list of potential fixes.
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from where i'm reading I think they took the balancing to another level

y'know how some MyClub accounts are blessed (or maybe you don't), I think same applies with the actual game you get.

feels like a big experiment.

e.g. what % of the user base do we need to optimise the game for to better last years revenue (the less the better financially)

pesfan forum was rife with complaints about script and that's why i think it got taken down.

an example of what i'm saying is if I can work out who posts regularly here and deliver them the good version of the game then rep goes up (at the same time you are leaving others to wallow). if you catch my drift.
 
Last year I thought the chipped through ball spam was a bit cheap from the AI with it's extreme accuracy and consistency, but at least they were actually successful and punished your defensive lapses. You had to be concentrating the whole match to keep a clean sheet on the higher difficulties.

Now, with the low cross spam... They're just shite; it's not even effective. They play the ball low into the box whether it's on or not. I can just leave them alone on the wing, position a defender goal side and just in front of their nearest attacker, then super cancel towards the ball and mash the shoot/clear button. They pretty much pass the ball straight to you... They only score when I'm outnumbered at the back on a counter attack, if I defend deep then they are useless.

Alx1234 said:
y'know how some MyClub accounts are blessed.
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Seems like mine is for some reason... Booted it up today to just see who the new "featured" players were. Did one spin and got the 94 rated Hazard...

So without spending a penny on it, it's given me the very top player out of each set of featured players - 96 Neymar, 97 Messi (100 in AMF) and 94 Hazard. Here is a pic of a team containing all of the highest rated players it's given me;

565lwZ4.jpg


That is just ridiculous after 3 weeks, and having barely even played the mode.
 
Alx1234 said:
from where i'm reading I think they took the balancing to another level

y'know how some MyClub accounts are blessed (or maybe you don't), I think same applies with the actual game you get.

feels like a big experiment.

e.g. what % of the user base do we need to optimise the game for to better last years revenue (the less the better financially)

pesfan forum was rife with complaints about script and that's why i think it got taken down.

an example of what i'm saying is if I can work out who posts regularly here and deliver them the good version of the game then rep goes up (at the same time you are leaving others to wallow). if you catch my drift.
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i knew it! i'm special! i deserve a better version! :EASY:
this is a conspiracy!! and konami made me part of it... :SNACK:

;)
 
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