Liverpool Thread

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

gerd said:
The points you make may well be true dags, but they are not the point.
The point is that Suarez (regardless of the fact that he's a racist) is trouble with a big T. Just like Evra is full of shit.
The point is that Liverpool should not defend his attitude (in general).
The point is that with all his previous (in the Epl) he dserves a ban. Yes, things are said, yes most football players dive now and then. Yes some football players show the finger to opposite fans. But Suarez does it all in a matter of weeks. A couple of months on the side line will serve him well.

But even that is not the problem.

The problem is taht Liverpool even bother to defend this major arse hole, just like Man Utd thinks it's decent to defend that other litle shit.

Yesterday Lampard had the gravce to say he could have been sent off...that is class...and the fact that Chelsea prohibited it's players to wear Terry t-shirt, that is class from a nouveaux riche team...
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wasn´t the Terry incident renewed interest just becouse the unfairness regarding Suarez incident? I mean Terry´s incident has more clear evidence than the second case.. Suarez case was backed up by the club and fans/players not becouse we are accepting such behaviour, but becouse we think it was not 100% fair to both sides and more of a thing to prove something for the FA towards racial abuse of players.. where in fact lot´s of things like this go unnoticed or unpunished in such way in past..
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

PIPA23 said:
wasn´t the Terry incident renewed interest just becouse the unfairness regarding Suarez incident? I mean Terry´s incident has more clear evidence than the second case.. Suarez case was backed up by the club and fans/players not becouse we are accepting such behaviour, but becouse we think it was not 100% fair to both sides and more of a thing to prove something for the FA towards racial abuse of players.. where in fact lot´s of things like this go unnoticed or unpunished in such way in past..
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Which is basically: other clubs' players are racist beyond any doubt but for our players there is a need for crystal clear evidence.

In the Terry case: didn't he defended himself by saying that he said to a teammate: "i did not say that he was a nigger" (or something along that line). Of course i know aswell as you do that this is a very weak defense, but i don't see why this would be more invalid than all what Liverpool have said about Suarez...

You know what? I give up...for most English football fans it is impossible to be objective.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

DagsJT said:
Sigh. I'm not even bothering anymore. The one last thing I'll say is that if you think it was a racist comment just because of the word used then I'd class you as racist. The word used isn't always used as a negative slur and when they were talking in Spanish, he said "black". If he wanted to be racist, he'd just use the n word.
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It's all well and good suggesting he never meant it in a derogitory manner but the way he acted around Evra, especially the point when Kuyt tried breaking it up, pointing to his arm, clearly saying something with the look on his face suggesting he was been derogitory as well would seem to suggest he definitely abused Evra.

Of course that itself isn't really evidence, it's just an assumption based on what you can see.

FWIW it's probably better to think of it as the FA taking a stance against racism as a whole. The mere mention of it meant someone had to be punished to make an example. Just so happens to be Suarez this time around. Here's hoping John Terry gets locked up as well, though he deserved it a long time ago simply for being a horrible excuse for a human being.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

cfdh_edmundo said:
The transfer window is only open a few days and already the big news is Liverpool Sign Bent!
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News or rumors??
I hope we don't get him, there are other foreign players we should look at. Seems like KD can't look at players outside England.
Bent is supposed to cost around £20m, why not add about £15m to that sum of money and get a real quality player such as Cavani, Lavezzi or Higuain.
Kenny Dalglish isn't stingy when it comes to British donkeys, why not spending those money wisely and buy another Suarez like player, and goals will come in no time.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

besarti said:
News or rumors??
I hope we don't get him, there are other foreign players we should look at. Seems like KD can't look at players outside England.
Bent is supposed to cost around £20m, why not add about £15m to that sum of money and get a real quality player such as Cavani, Lavezzi or Higuain.
Kenny Dalglish isn't stingy when it comes to British donkeys, why not spending those money wisely and buy another Suarez like player, and goals will come in no time.
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We're not in Europe, it's unsure whether we'll get into Europe next season, why would the worlds top players join us when they can join clubs that can offer them European football? It's not as easy as just picking out a player and saying "We'll have him" like picking teams in school lunchtime footy.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

DagsJT said:
Sigh. I'm not even bothering anymore. The one last thing I'll say is that if you think it was a racist comment just because of the word used then I'd class you as racist. The word used isn't always used as a negative slur and when they were talking in Spanish, he said "black". If he wanted to be racist, he'd just use the n word.



Oh, and read the above posts by a Uruguayan professor who explains that the claims Evra made are basically full of shit seeing as he's making words that don't exist in the Spanish language and claiming that Suarez used a phrase that he'd not have ever used. You'd think the FA would've looked into this a bit more, but I suppose these "language experts" were from the University Of Manchester.
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Oh dear here we go again, So now I'm the Racist if I think Suarez made a racist comment, what fucking planet are you on?
BTW I've read your Uruguayan professors post,It's just a shame he didn't read the F.A.'s findings

I'll quote paragraph 181.
The experts noted that the use of the verb form "porque tu eres negro" is not the most usual
form for Montevidean Spanish, since the form of the verb "ser" most commonly used
would be the "vos" form, that is "porque (vos) sos negro". Nevertheless, a small percentage
of people from Montevideo do use the "tu" form (in contrast to Buenos Aires, where it is
rarely used) or even a mixture of both. In the interview with Mr Suarez the transcription
indicated to the experts that he uses the "tu" form of the verb
And as for the language experts being biased because they came from Manchester Uni.Come on mate REALLY??
That's RAWK like.
It's says a lot about the fans of your once proud club, that on the day that Gary Ablett died, a LFC forum thread about an e-mail to John Henry supporting Suarez had more views than a tribute one to Ablett
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Interesting that you didn't post the rest of that paragraph, or the one after. Just post what suits you.

In the interview with Mr Suarez the transcription
indicated to the experts that he uses the "tu" form of the verb, though there are other
filmed interviews published on the internet in which he uses the "vos" form of the verb.
Given that he has spent some considerable time in Europe it is possible that his use of
Spanish alters between Uruguayan and European contexts. It is also possible that Mr Evra,
who may have learned his Spanish in Spain, where the "vos" form is not used, may, when
recalling the incident in interview, have rendered Mr Suarez’s usage as the "tu" form, even
if Mr Suarez used the "vos" form.
182. The experts considered it worth noting that the phrase "porque tu eres negro" struck both
of them as slightly unusual. In this instance, a direct racial slur would more likely have
been something like "porque eres un negro de mierda" [because you are a shitty black].
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So where there's ACTUAL, REAL evidence of Suarez using certain phrases, it's acknowledged but pretty much disregarded. It's also mentioned that Evra might have said "tu" was used even though "vos" was used.

Also they find it strange that the phrase would even be used as Suarez would've said something very different if he intended to use a racist insult.

I said before that it was the last I was going to say but this really is the last post on it. What's the point in carrying it on? I believe that there's no real evidence of Suarez using racist language, it's one word against another, so it's pointless for everyone to speculate on what the situation really is. Regardless of how Utd fans are coming in here and claiming the FA panel that they've thought has been a joke for a long time is now so great and trustworthy, they're not going to change their mind.

And until there's actual evidence of racist insults being used, I'm not about to judge a player as racist or using racist language just because someone has lost a phrase in translation and chosen to be ignorant of another players culture.

If you want to discuss it more, why not actually post on RAWK instead of the constant browsing that you and the other United fans seem to do? I swear some of you spent more time on that site than the Liverpool fans here.

Beginning to really wonder why I bother with this forum. I left for a bit and I actually enjoyed not getting into ridiculous discussions/arguements with wind-up merchants and biased United fans posting in here not for a balanced discussion but just to take the piss. I like the discussion with some of the Liverpool fans here but it's just not really worth it. I'm going to have a guess and say that around 40%-50% of posts in here are from United fans anyway.

The more I think of it, it seems way too many posts in here are people arguing, it's just not a very good thread nowadays.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

They ban Liverpool fans on RAWK for not towing the party line, what chance would a United fan have.
Kenny in that T-shirt though mate, priceless.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

northstandhero said:
They ban Liverpool fans on RAWK for not towing the party line, what chance would a United fan have.
Kenny in that T-shirt though mate, priceless.
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Your not the most objective person in this one IMO. Frankly you are as biased as the Liverpool fans.

Dags: maybe you won't believe me, but i actually quite like you. So it would kind of (kind of, yes) sadden me to see you stay away from this thread, but by staying away you give the impression of being afraid of other views who maybe are not the truth, but who are until now as valid as your views.

It's also rather simple to divide the people who don't share your opinion in two categories: Man Utd fans (and thus demons and devils) and the neutrals who you call wind-up merchants. I guess i'm a wind-up merchant...

I will stop this discussionn this is useless. Lets agree to disagree. I will come back in this thread because (although a Spurs fan) i really like Liverpool and English football does interest me...
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Vannizzlefashizzal said:
the report is out in the open Gerd...

dont know what lfc have been thinking backing this guy...

fair ennough Suarez doesnt seem too bright, but I have been suprised at the lfc stance on this.
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my original post wasnr inflammatory or calling suarez "all sorts" okay i said i dont think he's too bright but i would say that about a few united players aswell.

Suarez is human and we all do daft things make mistakes etc etc

But lfc as an institution dealt with the whole thing very badly, it seems other peeps in the thread (non united supporters too) think the same thing.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Okay, my final word on the subject (I hope) as I feel it is fitting and sums up the two 'sides' well.

According to the lawyer hired by LFC and Suarez: "It was accepted by Mr McCormick in closing submissions that this is not simply a case of one person’s word against another."

In the final press release by the LFC spin gurus: "This case has also provided a template in which a club's rival can bring about a significant ban for a top player without anything beyond an accusation."
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

And moving swiftly along...
No Suarez or Carroll tonight from Pool. Will likely be a tight match, not sure who of Kuyt/ Downing/ Bellamy will actually be up front leading the line as none are really suited to that.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Sorry, the 'twitterverse' just changed its tune - Carroll replaces Bellamy in that lineup, so he will be up front. Which makes sense - he was awesome against City last year.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Reina, Enrique, Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Spearing, Adam, Downing, Henderson, Kuyt, Carroll.

no Gerrard , well I dont even know if i have to start watching match lol

whatever hope for possitive result YNWA
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

VALON-YNWA said:
Reina, Enrique, Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Spearing, Adam, Downing, Henderson, Kuyt, Carroll.
Click to expand...

Big match for spearing and carroll, hopefully carroll can silent a few people tonight

assuming it'll be 4-5-1
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

aitken said:
Big match for spearing and carroll, hopefully carroll can silent a few people tonight

assuming it'll be 4-5-1
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im happy spearing start , i wish Suarez were too in place of carroll

whatever I think Kenny will try to hold on 0-0 in 1st half and after move with Gerrard and Bellamy and try more to score
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Where the hell is Suarez btw? Thought he was eligible for tonight's match against city ...
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

besarti said:
Where the hell is Suarez btw? Thought he was eligible for tonight's match against city ...
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We've not appealed so his ban starts now, meaning he misses tonight's game.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

gerd said:
Your not the most objective person in this one IMO. Frankly you are as biased as the Liverpool fans.

Dags: maybe you won't believe me, but i actually quite like you. So it would kind of (kind of, yes) sadden me to see you stay away from this thread, but by staying away you give the impression of being afraid of other views who maybe are not the truth, but who are until now as valid as your views.

It's also rather simple to divide the people who don't share your opinion in two categories: Man Utd fans (and thus demons and devils) and the neutrals who you call wind-up merchants. I guess i'm a wind-up merchant...

I will stop this discussionn this is useless. Lets agree to disagree. I will come back in this thread because (although a Spurs fan) i really like Liverpool and English football does interest me...
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You're not a wind-up merchant Gerd. But Dags' point is that you can't have a decent discussion with the majority of posters in here. When the news/accusation first came out about Suarez the majority of Liverpool fans in here took a wait and see position and if guilty give him a big ban, with a couple (including me) expecting Suarez to be guilty based on his past indiscretions / mentality to win at all costs and Evra not being stupid enough to play the racism card when it wasn't valid ( as that is even more damaging imo).

From everything I've seen it was a heated exchange that looks negative and whatever Suarez said wasn't friendly imo. A side note; Everyone seems to ignore the fact that these are professional football players doing a job and are unlikely to really care enough to abuse players to a huge extent. Bellamy is an example of looking like a raged man one minute and joking with the same player the next. It isn't a fan vs fan situation, it's just a job. Anyway...

However so far I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that Suarez was in fact using a racial slur. I'm all for banning him for what he is accused of, and personally I'm not that bothered by him being banned anyway as he needs a kick up the arse. However even with all the experts, video evidence and testamony I haven't seen a single report in the media or post in here that unequivocally proves Suarez made the racist comment. The fact that there is still so much discussion and semi truths being posted and counter posted by quoting the report in here and that the media can't actually pinpoint anything more from the report than that Suarez was unreliable just shows how weak the actual facts are. I think that is what generally the Liverpool fans in here are complaining about.

And for that valid complaint, because it could just as easily be the otherway round with different players, the Liverpool fans in here are portraited as RAWK nutters who will do anything, including condoning racism, to support their player. It's far, far from it, but that won't get in the way of mostly Utd fans coming in here to have their say and attack even the most valid and sensible of discussions or opinions. It's pathetic tribalism that quickly detoriorates into the mess this thread now is.

As an example look at Beachryan's last post, he is probably the most sensible and balanced Utd poster I know on here. Even that is an "inciting" post that has a negative slant, yet actually neither of the quote's contradict each other.

The lawyer, who deals only in facts, is saying that it isn't just a one vs the other because the report shows it's also about cultural understanding, subtleties in language, subjective conclusions based on testimony, social responsibility on how any perceived racism is handled.

The PR spiel is saying that even thought there isn't any unequivocal evidence a player can be banned for 8 matches because an opposition player accused him.

So Ryan, there aren't actually two sides with opposing views, there is one who only states what he knows and the other spins what he knows, pretty much what you did with your post. Yet even from your generally balanced views you are also caught up in this nonsense. Which, imo, only highlights how sensetive the subject is and how difficult it is to deal with. I'm not really sure what else the FA could do tbh, but that doesn't mean it's the fair decision and doesn't mean the Liverpool fans in here should be treated as idiots or RAWK members.
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Good post Tik I agree....for what it's worth? :DD

I just hope Terry gets an 8 year ban for what he did :))
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

TikTikTikTikTik said:
You're not a wind-up merchant Gerd. But Dags' point is that you can't have a decent discussion with the majority of posters in here. When the news/accusation first came out about Suarez the majority of Liverpool fans in here took a wait and see position and if guilty give him a big ban, with a couple (including me) expecting Suarez to be guilty based on his past indiscretions / mentality to win at all costs and Evra not being stupid enough to play the racism card when it wasn't valid ( as that is even more damaging imo).

From everything I've seen it was a heated exchange that looks negative and whatever Suarez said wasn't friendly imo. A side note; Everyone seems to ignore the fact that these are professional football players doing a job and are unlikely to really care enough to abuse players to a huge extent. Bellamy is an example of looking like a raged man one minute and joking with the same player the next. It isn't a fan vs fan situation, it's just a job. Anyway...

However so far I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that Suarez was in fact using a racial slur. I'm all for banning him for what he is accused of, and personally I'm not that bothered by him being banned anyway as he needs a kick up the arse. However even with all the experts, video evidence and testamony I haven't seen a single report in the media or post in here that unequivocally proves Suarez made the racist comment. The fact that there is still so much discussion and semi truths being posted and counter posted by quoting the report in here and that the media can't actually pinpoint anything more from the report than that Suarez was unreliable just shows how weak the actual facts are. I think that is what generally the Liverpool fans in here are complaining about.

And for that valid complaint, because it could just as easily be the otherway round with different players, the Liverpool fans in here are portraited as RAWK nutters who will do anything, including condoning racism, to support their player. It's far, far from it, but that won't get in the way of mostly Utd fans coming in here to have their say and attack even the most valid and sensible of discussions or opinions. It's pathetic tribalism that quickly detoriorates into the mess this thread now is.

As an example look at Beachryan's last post, he is probably the most sensible and balanced Utd poster I know on here. Even that is an "inciting" post that has a negative slant, yet actually neither of the quote's contradict each other.

The lawyer, who deals only in facts, is saying that it isn't just a one vs the other because the report shows it's also about cultural understanding, subtleties in language, subjective conclusions based on testimony, social responsibility on how any perceived racism is handled.

The PR spiel is saying that even thought there isn't any unequivocal evidence a player can be banned for 8 matches because an opposition player accused him.

So Ryan, there aren't actually two sides with opposing views, there is one who only states what he knows and the other spins what he knows, pretty much what you did with your post. Yet even from your generally balanced views you are also caught up in this nonsense. Which, imo, only highlights how sensetive the subject is and how difficult it is to deal with. I'm not really sure what else the FA could do tbh, but that doesn't mean it's the fair decision and doesn't mean the Liverpool fans in here should be treated as idiots or RAWK members.
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I totally agree with not being able to punish Suarez without proof. When this whole thing came out I expected nothing to be done because it was just going to be Evra saying one thing and Suarez denying it. If that had been the case, then I would be perfectly happy to see it thrown out, and we move on.

But, as with all the pro-Suarez posts on here, you're ignoring the FACT, admitted by Suarez HIMSELF that while 'pinching' Evra he referred to him as 'Negro'. I just cannot accept that a player can pinch another player, make reference to his race and still have not apologised. Anyway, what's done is done, clearly Suarez and LFC don't think that an apology is necessary.

City have been pretty jammy this half eh?
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

So much for ...my last say on the matter :JAY:

Liverpool look so good and more threatening ! unlucky to be down 2 nil. I hope you lot get some goals in.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

kevano22 said:
Great performance again tonight from those top British signings....
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I remember I was being attacked here and called biase because I was saying how we were buying mediocre/normal british players when everyone here was saying how Kenny was an expert in making winning teams.
I just hope he has some dignity and go at the end of the season. Commolli has to go too.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

i don´t think we play bad, we are just unlucky not to score..
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Downing needs to f*cking cross the ball. There were countless times in the second half where the City full back sat off him, but he never ever put the ball in. I don't get why? You have a beast of a CF in there?!
 
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