WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread

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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

To my mind the biggest piss take isn't that PES2008 has slowdown on a next gen console, it's the fact that PES2008's "next gen" graphics are looking barely beyond current gen and despite that it has slow down, that's just unforgivable.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Junka said:
[Winning11 Blog] Gamesradar PES 2008 SEABASS Interview - "We Knew We Could Do Better" - http://www.winningelevenblog.com/2007/10/gamesradar-pes-2008-seabass-interview.html
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The recent interviews have all been encouraging, mainly because there has been a clear trend away from endless fawning towards criticism of the game and it has clearly taken Seabass by surprise. The questions now have a real edge, talking about quality control, etc.

About the reception for the PS3 version, he was disappointed that people were disappointed in the game. Gone are the days when all he has to do is repackage the game every autumn and sit back as it and he are lauded.

It was interesting to hear him say that they considered delaying the release of the PS3 version...it makes it quite apparent why there's no sign of the PS3 demo...too scared to let us see the mess before release date.

But as I said previously, the decision not to delay shows the underlying attitude towards the customer...so long as they're getting the money in, they'll gladly let the quality go to pot.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

A few more impressions from Rob McLean (PESFAN Site) he was given PES2008 by Seabass for winning the recent tournament in Seville:

"The "jittering" was very very very very very minimal. It did not bother me in the slightest, it is noticeable, but does not bother me and i am very fussy."

"Seriously. I love pes 2008. Its the first game iv ever played and loved from the start, and i am probably one of the most fussy players you will ever meet."

He also said on other posts that the shooting works very well and that he had fears about the goalkeepers after playing the demo on the 360 but in the final version goalies are great.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Good to know, I'm gonna post some questions for him.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Placebo said:
To my mind the biggest piss take isn't that PES2008 has slowdown on a next gen console, it's the fact that PES2008's "next gen" graphics are looking barely beyond current gen and despite that it has slow down, that's just unforgivable.
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Remember what I said on the prevous page?
Han said:
I have to say you and Jack bauer are very creative in brainwashing people overhere by critisizing the known things over and over again.
I sometimes agree with the points you bring on, but you keep repeating them and that gives the impression that you critisize just for the sake of critisizing and that does NOT make sense...
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Well placebo, your post is another perfect example of what I ment.
You said that so many times: I guess the counter on your remark above is on... about...250 ;)
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

kamy100 said:
A few more impressions from Rob McLean (PESFAN Site) he was given PES2008 by Seabass for winning the recent tournament in Seville:

"The "jittering" was very very very very very minimal. It did not bother me in the slightest, it is noticeable, but does not bother me and i am very fussy."

"Seriously. I love pes 2008. Its the first game iv ever played and loved from the start, and i am probably one of the most fussy players you will ever meet."

He also said on other posts that the shooting works very well and that he had fears about the goalkeepers after playing the demo on the 360 but in the final version goalies are great.
Click to expand...

Is he playing 1vscpu or 1vs1?
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

The faces on PES2008 are next gen, the fan are 3d, although look crap when they go fuzzy, but its overall looks are let down by the kits imo, well mainly, as it takes up so much of the actual plyer, hence why I reckon they dont look too good, looking at the edit more and the player, the faces look amazing, the hair, well I dunno much about it, rather see in edit mode, the arms and knees look fine, well good enough for now, but the kits just look weird, even all plain white.

And slowdown isnt unforgiveable, if its very slight then it definately isnt, if its majr slowdown and a lot then you can say its unforgiveable as it effects the game to such a degree that you CANT play it, I think your taking things way out of context.

Its like you hear slowdown, omg slowdown its going to freeze frame the game, and go in slow mo for about a whole half, when infact it could be a slight slowdown for the start of the corner kick thereafter its fine. But I dont know so cant comment.

Apparently my mate has the game already, as his uncle or something owns a game shop, he has the ps3 version at his house, I dunno if I should believe him however. Althought he did the same with Fifa and had that, he 's a fifa fan, but hates 08, so lets see what he thinks of PES2008, im gonna have to pester bim later today or tomorrow.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Seraphs21 said:
The faces on PES2008 are next gen
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I disagree, yes the player likenesses are very good, look at a player on PES2008 and 95% of the time you know for certain who it is, but the way they create the faces is not impressive IMO, certainly it's not an artistically next gen way to do it, EA's way of doing it is next gen because they create the face in a 3d modelling app*, Konami just use 2d textures over the same 3d mesh, it's a current gen way to do it, which after all is the way that the whole game is made, perhaps as is being indicated PES2009 will actually be the first next gen PES with next gen content and created in an appropriately next gen way for next gen systems.......



*Which unfortunately due to EA's lack of love in polishing their sports titles often leaves players not looking quite as they should but artistically it's the better looking way to do it.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

It doesn't matter how they do it. It's about how it looks.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

jimbaxter said:
The WENB boys are total bullshitters; prolly funded by Konami's PR department. And now they will not show their faces once their 'predictions' look like crap
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For shame, jimbaxter... You shouldn't be saying things like this...
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Placebo said:
I disagree, yes the player likenesses are very good, look at a player on PES2008 and 95% of the time you know for certain who it is, but the way they create the faces is not impressive IMO, (....)
*Which unfortunately due to EA's lack of love in polishing their sports titles often leaves players not looking quite as they should but artistically it's the better looking way to do it.
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That maybe just a litle bit subjective...
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Han said:
It's about how it looks.
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And PES2008 does not look like a next gen game.

gerd said:
That maybe just a litle bit subjective...
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If you're happy with the quality of the graphics on your next gen system then that's fine for you, for me there's nothing about PES2008 that looks next gen, not the faces, not the character models, not the crowds, not the pitches, not the stadiums. There's some stuff in Fifa08 that looks next gen, there's some stuff that doesn't look great, but I'll take the looks of Fifa08 over the looks of PES2008 any day of the week, especially considering how much it costs to buy a next gen console, I want something that when I play it I think "that's why I bought this console rather than sticking to current gen".
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Why do I care how they are made...

They look better on PES2008 thats all I see and care about. Bit harsh but its true, artisticly I still see Fifas faces as horrible so I would rather konami keep the the not impressive way to create faces.

The faces look next gen to me. Unless by next gen you mean zombifyied and souless? They look like the dancers from thriller in Fifa :(

Also to match the faces they have player likliness which is always good to have, as I tend to believe most players play different.
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Latest news from Winning11 Blog

[Winning11 Blog] Gamesradar PES 2008 SEABASS Interview - "We Knew We Could Do Better" - http://www.winningelevenblog.com/2007/10/gamesradar-pes-2008-seabass-interview.html

[Winning11 Blog] PES 2008 Focus: Refresh Of 360 Screenshots - http://www.winningelevenblog.com/2007/10/pes-2008-focus-refresh-of-360.html

[Winning11 Blog] PES 2008 Focus: PC Action Premiership Phenomenon - http://www.winningelevenblog.com/2007/10/pes-2008-focus-pc-action-premiership.html
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Placebo said:
I disagree, yes the player likenesses are very good, look at a player on PES2008 and 95% of the time you know for certain who it is, but the way they create the faces is not impressive IMO, certainly it's not an artistically next gen way to do it, EA's way of doing it is next gen because they create the face in a 3d modelling app*, Konami just use 2d textures over the same 3d mesh, it's a current gen way to do it, which after all is the way that the whole game is made, perhaps as is being indicated PES2009 will actually be the first next gen PES with next gen content and created in an appropriately next gen way for next gen systems.......
Click to expand...

If you mean that PES used the same 3d model, and different textures mapped over them, then you're wrong. Each face does have a different model, specifically made for the player. I think the problem is that the graphic engine itself is last gen. The lighting and the LOD is very very poor for a next gen game. Which is the main difference between PES and FIFA. Put these models and textures in the FIFA engine, and you'll be blown away.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

winston said:
But as I said previously, the decision not to delay shows the underlying attitude towards the customer...so long as they're getting the money in, they'll gladly let the quality go to pot.
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I think the problem here is though a question of how is more powerful, Seabass, or his bosses above him in Konami. It is highly likely that pressure from SONY would also have affected their choice. I cant see Sony wanted the game delayed, feeding hype that the console is more difficult to program for, although it may do them more harm if the game does run poorly.

Placebo said:
but the way they create the faces is not impressive IMO, certainly it's not an artistically next gen way to do it, EA's way of doing it is next gen because they create the face in a 3d modelling app*, Konami just use 2d textures over the same 3d mesh, it's a current gen way to do it, which after all is the way that the whole game is made
Click to expand...

Its a shame then that the majority of the faces in FIFA look terrible. I think you are being a little harsh, the models in PES2008 have been remodelled, they're much more detailed than last gen, and improved from PES6, I agree they dont have the level of detail in FIFA, but if they work they work, I dont personally see the point in wasting polygons modelling the face so acurately when the majority of the time people use a caerma where you couldnt tell who's face was who's anyway. I would be much more happy for them to send their time making improvements to the gameplay.

Graphically I think they would be better served with a new rendering engine, to help create better lighting and shadows, I think that would actually make the current models look 10 times better anyway.

Personally although I think that Seabass is making excusses, in some ways I feel sorry for the guy. I do think that the workload for his small (Im taking that from previously read posts) has caused alot of the problems, I would think that FIFA has a much bigger team, not to mention that we now different teams have worked on the next gen, another team for last gen, and I would have a ssumed another team working on the Wii version.

Hopefully Konami will put some money into expanding the team, or at least use other teams to prepare the other versions, so that they can concentrate on improving the game. Lets face it, Seabass has turned into somewhat of a Frank Lampard figure in here, theres a lot of hate pointed his way at the moment, but he's the guy that has brought us the best football game for many years now, and because his standards have been slipping a little, everyone has been quite insulting about the poor guy.

I doubt very much that Seabass sets out to make a game that people are going to dislike, thats not even a good way to just be in it for the money, but when you have had a decade of people blowing smoke up your rear end, constantly praising the release, and ignoring some the games faults in reviews, then I suppose its easy to get complacent. From that Video interview, I think the negative press has really hit him this time, I know there was a negative response to PES6 but I really dont think he regarded the next gen version of that as being a real release.

On the whole Im still looking forward to PES2008, it might not reach the heights that I was maybe expecting but alot of the reviews suggest that the core gamplay is still up to scratch, so I know I'll enjoy playing it...
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

VGZ_PES_2008_Xbox_360_HD_02.jpg


I think that this screenshot looks very good.. I love the grass
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Seraphs21 said:
Why do I care how they are made...

They look better on PES2008 thats all I see and care about. Bit harsh but its true, artisticly I still see Fifas faces as horrible so I would rather konami keep the the not impressive way to create faces.

The faces look next gen to me. Unless by next gen you mean zombifyied and souless? They look like the dancers from thriller in Fifa :(

Also to match the faces they have player likliness which is always good to have, as I tend to believe most players play different.
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Sorry mate, your talking bull. Yeah fifas faces could do with more work but they look like footballers, the shirts and shorts ripple, the players sweat and the kit has weaves and stitching in it.

Best GRAPHICS by a galaxy.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

i cancled my pre-order of PES2008...since i play the series i buy only the winning eleven jap version...i will listen to the facts when the game is released and will compare both! after that i will buy (for sure) one of them...
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

antred said:
Sorry mate, your talking bull. Yeah fifas faces could do with more work but they look like footballers, the shirts and shorts ripple, the players sweat and the kit has weaves and stitching in it.

Best GRAPHICS by a galaxy.
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LOL This one is too easy, because every football player wears shirts and shorts on their face?

Im on about the faces ONLY :( Read please.

I would agree anyway with what you said about the players kits, the kits look nicer in fifa, but they also do ripple in PES aswell ;)
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

hargreaves4 said:
Good old konami still cant get the Collision Detection sorted... I created a quick video this morning and it shows that the same old things are appearing in PES2008 that have been in the game for years!!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VGSlu4vzvNA
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See that is funny, but wouldnt bother me, as it doesnt really effect the gameplay because it would of been a save, realistically, what would happen? He would go into the post and maybe spin his legs round due to the force, or maybe he would let go of the ball and go down injured and get a free kick and a player sent off somehow, who knows, maybe thats when europhia would come in handy eh :P

Personally I think things like that wont be fixed for some time to come... heres hoping next year though.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Placebo said:
And PES2008 does not look like a next gen game.
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If you think you made a smart comment I have to disappoint you.
You know as good as I do that we were talking about how the faces looked.
You on purpose answered as if we were talking about something completely different.
Either you are incapable of keeping the subject ( which makes clear you are not too smart ) or you on purpose changes the subject, in which case it is a weakness in your reasoning about the subject.
Whatever it may be, we now know you are not here to objectively talk about PES 2008, you are here to bitch about it.
Very sad, if not pathetic :roll:
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Placebo is such a Fifa fanboy ;) I admit that a lot of aspects of PES 2008 aren't exactly "next gen" but to say the faces aren't is bordering on insanity. Each face IS individually modelled - the faces would be completely out of proportion if they weren't. Once again, here are a few examples.

pesface4br5.jpg


pesface1sz4.jpg


pesface2wc0.jpg


pesface3az8.jpg


I also disagree about the crowd - again I'd say this is another next gen aspect. Obviously they are a little copy and paste, but I doubt even the "next gen" consoles are powerful enough to render different faces for each member of a 40,000 crowd!

pescrowduk3.jpg
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Smart, they gave their best shots to something u don't even notice during gameplay. To me an absurd choice, I would rather have great def for uniforms and stadium than faces. But yes best faces in any sport franchise for sure.

And come on seabass, increase the resolution of those badges and give us sharper collars ffs.
 
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