WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread

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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Just noticed the creases in kits in those screenshots. I assume they only occur in High Detail?
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

"OMG Faces face face lol!!11111zzz!!"

WHO CARES about faces? We see them for a few seconds here and there. The actualy in-game graphics are terrible and the gameplay LOOKS way too fast!

Han, is it really that difficult for you to comprehend that PES 2008 is going to be rubbish this year? Can't you see that people like Placebo are old-school hardcore PES/WE fanatics and they can't beleive Seabass's half-arsed attempt at a Next-Gen football game? Does it really hurt you that much that so many people are loving FIFA this year? THAT is pathetic.
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Placebo said:
I disagree, yes the player likenesses are very good, look at a player on PES2008 and 95% of the time you know for certain who it is, but the way they create the faces is not impressive IMO, certainly it's not an artistically next gen way to do it, EA's way of doing it is next gen because they create the face in a 3d modelling app*, Konami just use 2d textures over the same 3d mesh, it's a current gen way to do it, which after all is the way that the whole game is made, perhaps as is being indicated PES2009 will actually be the first next gen PES with next gen content and created in an appropriately next gen way for next gen systems.......



*Which unfortunately due to EA's lack of love in polishing their sports titles often leaves players not looking quite as they should but artistically it's the better looking way to do it.
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sorry and I honestly dont like to be confrontational but that is the worst, most biased post I've ever read on here. You accept Konami have outperformed EA on the faces - As the results speak for themselves - but you then criticize their technique!!!! this fifa v pro fanboyism is becoming a joke in here - aprreciate both games, both are good.....accept pro has better faces like everyone else accepts fifa has better kits....mindless bitching is why i guess a lot of guys who've been around here for years are switching off.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

gesusaldinho, that's the thing mate. WE ARE PES/WE VETERANS! We have loved and bought every game! WHY can't you guys seem to grasp why we are complaining? What are we supposed to say? This:

"The faces are superb - it doesn't matter that the gameplay looks more like Pinball and it still looks current-gen. Hey, we'll even ignore the slow-down on the £450 console we just bought. We don't mind paying ANOTHER £40 for an update."

Is that better? Does that make you guys happier?
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Sorry I don't want to make a war or something...
I'm playing both and FIFA graphically is way better.
When I play a football game I don't care about how it looks during the replays but while playing.
I think the faces of PES with the other graphics of FIFA = perfect graphics !!
PES is behind in term of "simulation" gameplay BUT is better in term of ideas of gameplay (Super Cancel, 2 players FK, Tactics, Defending (in PES it's an art in FIFA it depends on the team you choose))
I think it's a good thing that (IMO) FIFA is better this year because next year we'll have two excellent games....
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Plan m i have bought FIFA...and i'm enjoying it immensley - i honestly believe pro has got is work cut out this year. especially if it contains slowdown as rumoured - that would be criminal. BUT my gripe is that some people seem to just want to put fifa over pro in every category even when it isnt justified ie.e the faces. its like arguing that the players in fifa "feel", player specifically, more accurate than their pro counterparts - they just don't. they might have ronaldo and robben a bit quicker but they just dont feel as personal. I believe that some people need to accept both games have their positives. I can accept completely that relative to each games history pro's current outing is under par - what im not ready to accept is that pro wont compete at all this year.

fifa has moved on drastically, thats brilliant for all of us. but pro has quite fallen from grace as much as some people are suggesting. Konami are taking the p!ss releasing the game minus all the features but fully edited my money is on pro taking the number one spot this year for me personally - next year who knows....but who cares...as long as we all have access to the best game.... whether its branded pro or fifa.

that faces technique post just makes me laugh!
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Plan M said:
gesusaldinho, that's the thing mate. WE ARE PES/WE VETERANS! We have loved and bought every game! WHY can't you guys seem to grasp why we are complaining? What are we supposed to say? This:

"The faces are superb - it doesn't matter that the gameplay looks more like Pinball and it still looks current-gen. Hey, we'll even ignore the slow-down on the £450 console we just bought. We don't mind paying ANOTHER £40 for an update."

Is that better? Does that make you guys happier?
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Put in a line with the argument that pes2008 is an updated pes6, and this posts will have the exact same content as your 50 last previous posts. Youre a "repeat moaner". Really nothing new to say, only a need to say the same over and over again. And u dont understand why people get tired!?
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

What about the constant "faces" posts? They are dull and repetitive. Can't you just skim past my post? Why does it offend you so much? I am not breaking any forum rules. I am not abusing or insulting anyone.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

The main element Placebo is trying to get at is that the faces look better atm with pes's technique of sticking a photo on the head model and then resizing it to get the correct proportions. You only have to look at the WENB team faces in the game and how they did it to understand what he means. Atm it looks better, in fact they look great, however thats in the context of their current engine.

When/if they do adjust the engine/graphics/lighting etc the current way of doing faces will/could be a problem. Because essentially they are just sticking a photo on the model and then rendering it. For best results for detailed elements, and anyone who has done 3d modelling/rendering will know, you really need to make the whole face as a 3d model, with seperate textures and all.

Fifa are doing this atm, but the faces look off because of it. However they are more "future" proof then pes' technique. Whether we will even notice it in this generation of consoles is another matter. But the point remains valid that they are using a simple technique to achieve, atm, really good results.

Eventually we should be able to see different types of reflections/lighting/shadowing on kits, faces, pitch, adboards, etc that are determind by the texture (read kit material, face material-skin and facialhair-stubble, water, sweat, etc). For example a kit that is built up out of a shiny part and a netting part would result in different reflection/lighting/shadowing allowing us to view the "contrast" between them, also with rain/water/sweat creating different "contrast" again within the base textures. Same goes for faces, someone who is clean shaven will have far more "shine" then someone who has stubble. And atm, pes' way of doing faces doesnt allow that, fifa's does as they can alter each element of the face (model) and its texture to achieve those results.

Now whether they will be even able to achieve that in this generation is another matter, but if they do in a couple of years, fifa's way of doing it will give them the freedom to essentially just add the "rendering engine adjustments and texture adjustement" to the game engine and viola. Pes will be stuck with phototextures and trying multiple layering of reflection/bump materials to achieve the same result per face, meaning they would have to go through each face again to get the difference in a cleanly shaven guy and one with stubble. Fifa, if they have done it correctly, should be able to just alter a couple of material files across the board to get the needed result.

So in the end, its the same as the engine comment I posted a couple of pages ago. EA had the foresight/ambition to do it properly and for the longterm from the start, even if it takes more work innitially. Konami made do with what they had, and had done the same with this years faces int eh hope that it will be enough. Atm the faces are enough and look really good, but the actual technique behind it is old fashioned and possibly problematic in the future.
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Plan M said:
Han, is it really that difficult for you to comprehend that PES 2008 is going to be rubbish this year? Can't you see that people like Placebo are old-school hardcore PES/WE fanatics and they can't beleive Seabass's half-arsed attempt at a Next-Gen football game? Does it really hurt you that much that so many people are loving FIFA this year? THAT is pathetic.
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I think you miss the point between Placebo and me. Just read over it and see that he did not reacted on my remark, but repeated what he already said a hundred times, if not more.
I agree with you it is very disappointing that Konami stripped PES for the second year in a row and it is disappointing that there was never such a good PES-version like PES 5. Don't forget, I myself play the game since ISS pro evo 2,so I have seen the evolution over the years as well. What people seem to forget is that in the ISS-series it was only GAMEPLAY what the game was about, which was a good thing. But did you got good graphics, what people complain since the PES series? NO, ISS was not about graphics and still people never complained about it!
No complaints about tucked shirts, no complaints about too few stadiums. People were happy with the game. Funny thing is that the current game ( PES 6 for instance ) is - dispite it shortcomings - still a better game with far better graphics than the ISS-series but now people complain hundred times more!
THAT's why you rarely see me complain. I am the old-fashion type who only look at gameplay. True, that part is also a bit in a dip these days, because people wait for so long for 360 degree control and people find the game too fast and I agree with both points. Silly thing is that one of the stripped PES 2008-things in the gameplay is the 360 degree controll ( Adam told about it in one of the earlier podcasts ). They got a problem and due to deadline-restrictions it was stripped. The good thing is that konami apparently work on 360 degree controll!
But apart from those things there are also improvements gameplay-wise ( AI smoother play, better passing etc ) so for me Konami did try to keep the evolution going but they had a small 'staff' and things did not go within the deadline.
With the better 'staff'-structure they should be able to improve the game as drasticly as Seabass said.
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Plan M said:
"OMG Faces face face lol!!11111zzz!!"

WHO CARES about faces? We see them for a few seconds here and there. The actualy in-game graphics are terrible and the gameplay LOOKS way too fast!

Han, is it really that difficult for you to comprehend that PES 2008 is going to be rubbish this year? Can't you see that people like Placebo are old-school hardcore PES/WE fanatics and they can't beleive Seabass's half-arsed attempt at a Next-Gen football game? Does it really hurt you that much that so many people are loving FIFA this year? THAT is pathetic.
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Way too fast on the demo, whcih has already been confirmed to be way faster than the final version, plus I couldnt stand it if it was as slow as the FIFA running through mud speed.

Also PES might not be the game we all hoped it would be, but it seems from the demo, and from the reviews so far that it is still the solid gameplay we all know and love, so to say that it will be rubbish is just silly. Yes FIFA has improved, alot, and yes I enjoy playing it, but I have to say I would rather play PES6 on my PS2 if I had to make a choice.

Pro Evo set a high bar, and I agree that the past 2-3 versions havent really raised that, but that bar hasnt really dropped a huge amount either. Fifa08 has come a long way, but IMO, and I really want to stress that, it still does meet PES standards. And as for your [bold]"Does it really hurt you that much that so many people are loving FIFA this year? THAT is pathetic."[/bold] comment, does it really bother you so much that not everyone agree's with your views on Fifa vs PES? THAT is pathetic (also).
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

twoodster said:
Placebo is such a Fifa fanboy ;) I admit that a lot of aspects of PES 2008 aren't exactly "next gen" but to say the faces aren't is bordering on insanity. Each face IS individually modelled - the faces would be completely out of proportion if they weren't. Once again, here are a few examples.

[MG]http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7831/pesface4br5.jpg[/IMG]

[MG]http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8879/pesface1sz4.jpg[/IMG]

[MG]http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7631/pesface2wc0.jpg[/IMG]

[MG]http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5743/pesface3az8.jpg[/IMG]
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Actually those ones do look very, very impressive, I've certainly seen screenshots where the faces shown don't look anything like that, maybe they were early shots or current gen or something? Well if every single face in next gen looks as good as those Brazil players then I'll concede the faces are next gen, so that's the first thing ;)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Placebo said:
Actually those ones do look very, very impressive, I've certainly seen screenshots where the faces shown don't look anything like that, maybe they were early shots or current gen or something? Well if every single face in next gen looks as good as those Brazil players then I'll concede the faces are next gen, so that's the first thing ;)
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OMG PLACEBO WHAT DO U KNOW FANBOY LOL!!!! i will pwn u at every pes game lol111!!!
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Will it be possible to import data from your USB-stick on your Xbox 360 ?
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Following a long wait and various conversations and begging with Microsoft it seems the news is not all good. The W.E.N.B. Option File due before the release of PES 2008 will be available for the PS3 but the team are now in limbo about the 360 version following the responses from Microsoft. Here are some extracts:

"Game saves are separate from profiles, but they are intertwined. When you sign into your Xbox 360 under your profile, all of your game progress is stored on your Hard Drive or Memory Unit and is associated with your current profile."

"Due to the outbreak of users having accounts stolen or 'hijacked' since the initial introduction of the Xbox 360 Console®, we had to disallow the trading of profile or profile information via different methods including many websites dedicated to this service."

"By distributing a game save you run the risk of having your current local "ConsoleID" values added to a Console Revocation List implemented in the regular Xbox 360 updates... you will face the risk of having your Xbox 360 Console® permanently banned from Xbox Live®."

So its seem that Microsoft are very anti-game saves, but although we requested clarification if this applies to Option Files they have in two different occasions dodged the question or indirectly made it clear that OF's are pretty much game saves. Now this puts us in a bit of a situation, where there are many fans out there who may be interested in the W.E.N.B. Option File for the 360. I will do some more chasing for the sake of our viewers.

I personally know that the OF's can be transferred via other methods including the Hard Drive transfer kit and the like. But the problem arises when I ask one of the team or risk getting my Console ID on the Revocation List!
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Plan M said:
gesusaldinho, that's the thing mate. WE ARE PES/WE VETERANS! We have loved and bought every game! WHY can't you guys seem to grasp why we are complaining? What are we supposed to say? This:

"The faces are superb - it doesn't matter that the gameplay looks more like Pinball and it still looks current-gen. Hey, we'll even ignore the slow-down on the £450 console we just bought. We don't mind paying ANOTHER £40 for an update."

Is that better? Does that make you guys happier?
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Who cares about how it looks? I want to know how it FEELS.

FIFA is like a gorgeous woman who is just average in bed. PES is like an average-looking sex-machine. \\:o/
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 10/10/07)

Plan M said:
Im a girl.
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I wouldnt going saying that here, people are comparing a game to girls and sex... I think someone edited a comment saying pat butcher on ice skates, haha asif she could ice skate :lol:

I love this game.
 
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