UEFA Champions League 2013/2014

Tomorrow is the big match. Benfica deserved to lose in Da luz against Olympiacos, but the ref rescued them when he gave them a corner that never existed and then came the equaliser.

The ref tomorrow is Skomina, well-known to those who have some knowledge. Probably uefa put him in this match so if that if he makes a mistake to help Benfica, there will be no need for him to be punished (it will be considered as a little mistake from a "good" ref). Also, he has experience and if Olympiacos is good and comes close to winning, he will know how to stop the greek side from getting what they deserve.

I remember Benfica losing against Chelsea 2 years ago in the quarter-finals, because a penalty was not given to them.

Last year, they would have gone to the last 16, but in the other match of the group on matchday 6, Samaras of Celtic dived, he got a shitty penalty so Celtic won and unfairly left Benfica out.

Seems strange but although Benfica knows how it is to lose by ref mistakes, yet the used the referee to save them from Olympiacos.

Until now, we saw PSG scoring an offside goal, Anderlecht getting a penalty that neved existed and Benfica equalising from a non-corner, all those shitty things happened against Olympiacos.
 
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I wanted to not comment in this thread until the group stages end, but you made me to.

He is probably this guy: http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/member.php?u=223071, who was banned in the past.
 
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Guys, it's really normal? :CONFUSE:

Russian translators will be deployed in the Etihad Stadium on Tuesday night to crack down on any racist abuse from CSKA fans.

Monkey noises were aimed at Yaya Toure when Manchester City played in Moscow two weeks ago and the Russian club have since been charged by UEFA.

But the trouble has continued, with a flight of drunken away supporters being forced to make an unscheduled landing as well as an outbreak of racist slurs aimed at Toure on fan forums.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ators-deployed-Man-City-crackdown-racism.html

I totally support the main idea of UEFA "No to Racism", but this is too much. All this has long turned into a real circus. :COAT:
 
I don't agree Artem.
CSKA should have been immediately banned from the CL. IMO that is the only measure that really could help. The usual sentence is that clubs play one or more matches behind closed doors...this is ineffective.
The club in question should loose the match 5-0, should get an immediate ban for the current CL and on top of that a ban for the next time they qualify...

Racism is a serious issue imo.
 
Here is John Barnes (former Liverpool player and England international) about Tourégate and racism. I agree for 90% but i still think that racism should be punished to avoid possible crowd trouble. On a theoretical and philosophical point of view i agree 100% with Barnes, but not from a practical point of view. If racism will not be punished, we risk once again to descend in a football culture of hooliganism and tribalism.

And now Barnes:

I'm not interested in what happened to Yaya Touré at CSKA Moscow – as far as I'm concerned their supporters can abuse who they want because, for me, what happened in Russia is the tip of a wider issue and, quite frankly, something of a smokescreen. For instance, how many black coaches are there in this country? Very few, yet all we're focusing on is CSKA Moscow, and the more we push for clubs like them to get banned or have their stadiums shut down the more we don't need to look at what is going on here.
The truth is that those at the top of British football do not care about getting rid of racism, they just don't want to hear it or see it. As soon as someone like Touré or Danny Rose gets abused in Eastern Europe there is shock and outrage from players, clubs and the authorities, yet no one is speaking about the people living in inner cities like Brixton who, because of their appearance and their background, have become completely disenfranchised from society. Why don't they care? Because the powers-that-be have enough wealth to not worry about these people.
Black players, in particular, should be tackling these issues because ultimately it will affect them when they retire. There are so many intelligent former black players, guys like Luther Blissett and Cyrille Regis, who never got a chance to become a top manager or a top coach because of the perception that surrounds people who look like them. They are black – which, for many, means they are good athletes but incapable of being anything above and beyond that.
To a large extent this is down to unconscious racism and probably 99% of us are guilty of that – I know I am. We all have preconceptions of people based on what we have been told about them and their race and ethnicity.
I still come across managers of a certain generation, those in their fifties and older, who say to me: "I don't see you as black", and think that is a compliment. So what, I don't walk around with my jeans down by my arse, smoking a spliff, so that means I'm not black? These are the attitudes we need to change if black people as a whole are going to progress, and the only way we can achieve that is through education.
This is what footballers have to do – they cannot directly affect society but what they can do is use their standing in this country to make a wider audience aware of the wider issues surrounding race and stress the importance of understanding that what they have been told about a certain group of people is, in the main, wrong.
That, for instance, the best occupations black people can aspire to is being a footballer, or a runner, or a singer. People look at Barack Obama and say: "See, black people can be President" – no they can't. Any black person who has been successful, particularly Obama, has been lifted out of blackness and stands as the exception.
We need to talk openly about perceptions and not be afraid of the fact that we all have different views about different people based on how they look. There is nothing racist about an open, honest dialogue and it is certainly more productive then pointing the finger at the CSKA Moscow fans, or at Luis Suárez or John Terry, and demanding they are punished.
Personally, I don't blame Suárez or Terry for what they did – they are simply products of a society and environment that allows them to think it is OK to speak about certain people in a certain way. It would be far better if instead of banning them and demonising them, the Football Association aimed to educate them and make them see that black people are undeserving of racial abuse.
The truth is that Anton Ferdinand has more in common with Terry than he does with someone from Africa. They're wealthy guys from western culture who both drive Bentleys, both drink champagne and both listen to Tinie Tempah, yet Ferdinand is told he is different, that he is part of a race open to insults? That is ridiculous and, again, is the product of historically incorrect preconceptions.
Racism is never personal – it's about someone saying the group I am part of is superior to the group you are part of. How, for instance, can a handsome, talented, beautiful black footballer be personally affected by a fat, ugly, unemployed fan calling them a black this or a black that? I used to get that when I was playing and I used to just look at the people doing it and think: 'You're abusing me? Look at you, how can you even dare abuse me?!'
That is why it is pointless, and pretty ridiculous, to be worrying about a footballer getting racially abused – in no way are they the biggest sufferers, and, quite frankly, if I was someone like Touré or Rose I'd feel embarrassed if I had to look at someone who was suffering genuine racism and take their sympathy. A millionaire getting booed in Russia is nothing compared with generations of people never getting the chance to better their lives and those of their children.
Physically we are different – east Africans, for instance, are genetically inclined to run long distances in shorter spaces of time – but intellectually and morally we all have the potential to be the same. That is the type of equality I am interested in and is the message I give when speaking at universities and other public forums. And that is what more people involved in football, black players in particular should be doing. Because unless you get rid of racism in society, you can never get rid of it in football and as things stand there will always be these one-off moments when a player is abused or booed purely because of the colour of their skin.
Everyone goes into shock because they thought racism had disappeared from the game but how can it have done when it continues to exist in every other part of society at a more deep-seated, depressing level? Just because someone keeps their mouth shut for 90 minutes doesn't mean that for the rest of the week he isn't a racist, or hold unconsciously racist views, and until that is addressed, there will always be a problem.
Tackling racism is a long and complicated process but one thing's for sure; it cannot be solved by banning a player or closing part of a stadium. The problem is wider than that and if football really cared those involved in the game, players in particular, would worry less about one-off incidents like what happened to Touré when he played for Manchester City in Moscow and more about what is going on around them. Perceptions need to change and for that to happen, education needs to be pushed as the only way forward.
John Barnes has donated his fee for this column to charity
 
Artem said:
Guys, it's really normal? :CONFUSE:

Russian translators will be deployed in the Etihad Stadium on Tuesday night to crack down on any racist abuse from CSKA fans.

Monkey noises were aimed at Yaya Toure when Manchester City played in Moscow two weeks ago and the Russian club have since been charged by UEFA.

But the trouble has continued, with a flight of drunken away supporters being forced to make an unscheduled landing as well as an outbreak of racist slurs aimed at Toure on fan forums.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ators-deployed-Man-City-crackdown-racism.html

I totally support the main idea of UEFA "No to Racism", but this is too much. All this has long turned into a real circus. :COAT:
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Sick of hearing it whenever we have the misfortune of having to go to eastern europe. There shouldn't even be any away fans allowed for this game
 
He has a point but I think he dwells too much on not caring about closing stadiums if racism occurs at a football match and people being outraged about it happening.

It needs to be done, teams need hard sanctions to stop it, for me when this happens then children will see it and think why it happened and why it was wrong. It is a huge message to send out to a youth that will feel effected by that action. Kids growing up in a certain area or with a certain family/family members/friends that are racist will take on that persona and those traits, but if they see something like this it actually makes them stop and think about what they are actually doing.

You want kids to be educated about it, close the stadium to all fans for 5 games in a row (So the club loses lots of money in Revenue, not like the small fines they are getting), kids will wonder why they can't go and watch their team and actually think of the consequences of acting a certain way and why they shouldn't do it. Otherwise they are just surrounded by people that think the same way and do the same things, they need to see something they respect and care for (Lots of young boys football is their life at a certain age) act and change and move against things like Racism.

So although I get Barnes view, I think he papered over the role sanctions will have on problem countries/clubs in world football.

The manager thing, I need to see more stats about. Stats like how many black players go for their coaching badges, how many apply for manager jobs and not succeed etc and other reasons why they might not feel they will progress even if they do do the required training etc.

It could be a case of many black players not having the desire to manage? I really don't know? It would be good if there was a study done? (Does anybody know of one?) about black players opinions and moving into coaching etc

I think it is too simplistic to say 'there are hardly any black managers, its because the system is racist' We need to see all of the different factors involved.

After saying all of that though, it is true in Britain most people know it is wrong to say racist things, which is good as less people get hurt by the abuse of being called names etc but from my experience there are still a great deal of people that hold racist views and this does need to change.
 
Hi bobby, i've read about studies were done and it is a fact that black people who want to become manager have far more opportunies to get a job (and the study was done for several European countries).

I agree with the rest of your mail. Sanctions set an example for youth.

And there is another element Barnes forget in his very good column. I referred to it in my previous post. Racism is all about us against them. Football already has a big us against them- element (it is the element i refuse to acknowledge hence me as a Spurs fan loving Arsenal for example), if you don't punish racism, you tolerate that us against them mentality.

That mentality lies at the base of all forms of hooliganism...
That is why the brother of one of my colleagues lost his ear. He bought ticket for a CL league match in Milan as an Anderlecht fan. When returning from a match (that Anderlecht must have lost, they loose all their CL matches) he was wearing an Anderlecht scarf and was attacked by Milan "fans"...the only provocation from his side was the scarf. People who are capable of doing this should get a punishment and on top of that a lifelong stadium ban...

That is the reason why all kind of wrong behaviour around football matches should be punished...football can never get back to the horror years in the 80's, or what happens now in some Eastern European countries like Serbia (the latest Belgrade derby was horrible), Poland and Russia.

So i maintain that CSKA should be banned from the CL for this season and the next one they qualify...
 
gerd said:
I don't agree Artem.
CSKA should have been immediately banned from the CL. IMO that is the only measure that really could help. The usual sentence is that clubs play one or more matches behind closed doors...this is ineffective.
The club in question should loose the match 5-0, should get an immediate ban for the current CL and on top of that a ban for the next time they qualify...

Racism is a serious issue imo.
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Hm, does not agree with you too, buddy.

The fact is that those who commit these actions (fans-racists), in general, they are not the real supporters of the club, these people come to the stadium only to make a row, a fight or insult team or players of the opponent. And imagine if because of these cases, the team will be immediately banned from the tournament, it turns out that these thugs will get power over the fate of the football club (!!!), I think that this method is also ineffective and vnem more minuses than pluses. I think it is not only the case in the fans themselves (if they can be called so), the point here is the players themselves. I think that dark-skinned players do not should react so on some bunch of thugs. It is written in your article "How, for instance, can a handsome, talented, beautiful black footballer be personally affected by a fat, ugly, unemployed fan calling them a black this or a black that?" and I totally agree with that. I think racism will decline much faster if the players are not going to cry after every abuse phrases from the stands, because who are these racists to indicate footballer? Just a nobody. Football players must show himself strong and only then these bastards-racists will not be able to feel the power over them. IMO.
These high-profile measures as ban from the tournament or match without spectators - is an empty ring, I do not think it will affect how some of these fans, it only hurts the real supporters of their clubs.

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About this match:

Here It is not quite everything is clean, I can not quite understand how the fans a team like CSKA could make it? After all, this team is different is that within its ranks there are no such people, also in squad of this club there are a some black players which the local audience very likes and respects. CSKA coach said he had not heard any racist chants, and the Yaya can not specify exactly what he heard (although fluent in Russian). All this is really weird ... :CONF:

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Anyway, great Barnes article, thank you Gerd for posting this, I also agree with most from written. Cheers and "No to Racism". ;)

Godotelli said:
Sick of hearing it whenever we have the misfortune of having to go to eastern europe. There shouldn't even be any away fans allowed for this game
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Unfortunately, racism is a problem all over Europe and even the world. :(
 
Dear Benfica fans,
Anything to say about this saint?
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Aside from the jokes, Benfica didn't deserve to lose this game, not even draw. They were better by far, but thank god luck was by our side. Now I hope we take this and qualify to the next round.
 
PSG - Anderlecht 400.000.000 - 40.000.000 = annual budget
PSG - Anderlecht 1-1 = goals.

Give Belgian, Scottish, Dutch or Scandinavian teams the budget of these giants and they would do as least as good as them.
 
Ι recall all the shit I wrote about Skomina, the referee. Olympiacos deserved to win in Da Luz, but today, in Karaiskaki, home of the best fans in the entire europe, Benfica was better. Roberto made the difference.

Now uefa has to find a way to leave Olympiacos out, and this is... Olympiacos loses from PSG (logical) and Benfica wins against Anderlecht (logical). Then PSG plays with the 2nd team against Benfica and loses and Anderlecht is helped to get a draw in Karaiskaki, the most passionate ground of Europe, and so end of story.
 
Nice of FCK to save Juventus' arse. They virtually handed Juve a second chance and if they don't take it then they deserve to crash and burn tbh.

Before any flaming starts, I actually hope Juve goes far. I'm a big fan of a few of their players even if the club doesn't really mean anything to me.
 
Roberto was terrible at Benfica. The football Gods thought it would be appropriate for him to play a blinder against his old club though. :D
 
gerd said:
PSG - Anderlecht 400.000.000 - 40.000.000 = annual budget
PSG - Anderlecht 1-1 = goals.

Give Belgian, Scottish, Dutch or Scandinavian teams the budget of these giants and they would do as least as good as them.
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Drawing teams with much lower budgets? Yeah, they could easily pull that off. :P
 
amineken22 said:
PSG is just a better team, deal with it.
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Of course PSG is a better team, because their budget is 10 times the budget of Anderlecht.
I'm not even a fan of Anderlecht, but like i've been saying at least 100 times: sports is basically unfair, but needs fair competition to survive in the long term.


I wonder how you would feel about this the day when Roman has had it with Chelsea... at that moment teams like Anderlecht, Ajax, Copenhagen, Porto and Benfica will still play CL matches. Are you sure Chelsea will even be in the EPL then ?

Like i've said countless times: i have nothing against those sugar daddies teams, in my discussions with people like beachryan (nothing wrong about him) i'm even the first to defend them. I know were they come from, they used to victims of unfair competition too and they took the easy way out.

But football should not be about billionaires and clubs trying to buy the 11 best players in the world. Football should be about patiently building teams, cautiously bringing youth talent in the first team. Silverware should be won by clubs doing it the right way.

With all due respect, i also think your comment shows a distinct lack of respect for all these clubs who are doing it the right way, who don't overspend and who are not in deficit.

When Abramovich dies or when he has enough of Chelsea, the club will totally collapse. I wonder how you will feel then...

It is ouraging that clubs can buy good players like Willian and scarcely use them...football fans have the right to see these players perform week in week out and not only in league cup matches...

I have a feeling i'm wasting my time, but i just wanted to respond you. Have a nice day.
 
atletico secured the first spot in their group just after the fourth games. I think that's a rarity in CL, am I wrong?

edit: just had a look at last years groups and only Man U achieved the same feat. before that juve and chelsea in 04/05.
 
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Kanouté said:
atletico secured the first spot in their group just after the fourth games. I think that's a rarity in CL, am I wrong?

edit: just had a look at last years groups and only Man U achieved the same feat.
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Bayern, City, Real did that this year
 
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