The Retro-PES Corner

[fmicablues7]

@fmicablues7 Where did you find that WE8Int? Sounds impressive. Is there a download/patch or something?

Take a look in Sany's thread. There are a few patches for WE8I and the default game also.

WE8I is the same as PES4, only the name for the american version.
But WE8 Liveware Evolution (jap) is far better, fixed and balanced version of one of the most offensive PES game from this era.

After WE9, my two favorite are that version and WE7I jap version (PES3 "fixed" version i could say, at least from my point of view). WE5FE play too much differently than those game that it's hard to class them in a ranking... The chess-football is very, very pronounced, that's what makes his charm.

I won't talk about euro version in a ranking, it's better to rank by brand new version.
PES5/WE9, WE7/PES3/WE7I (jap), WE5/PES1/WE5FE, WE8/PES4/WE8LE share the same engine modifications, and plays practically the same in terms of gameplay features, but with some "fix", and those fixes are significant and makes some big changes in the balance, speed, etc.

Note about "versions" and changes : usually, the first and second version for the same game are quite similar, sometimes the first better than the other (PES6 is better than WE10), but the latest is always the better.
The only exception is with WE9/PES5/JLWE9 : the first version is the best by far, try and test it. The latest version is similar to PES5.

Note 2 PC version WE9LE don't have rosters updated, the difference with PES5 is really small... To be honest i can't feel it at all.

Also PES1 and WE5 Final Evolution plays totally differently than every version i've tried, it's truely the PES essence for me. They're a bit "appart" i can't class them in a ranking. It's my favorite version to play ATM.

Sorry if that post is confusing with all that name dropping

I don't agree with everything you said. For example, WE9LE is noticeably different compared to PES 5, that much that there was a dedicated community for it, it is a fact. IMO, the american versions were always different compared to the european ones for those i tested, excepted maybe PES 6 and Winning Eleven 2007 (i noticed little tweaks but really really minor). WE7IUS was faster and more arcadey than PES 3. On the contrary, WE8I feels less arcadey than PES 4. WE9 was also different from PES 5, better CPU, sidebacks positioning fixed, faster passing, better goalkeepers, etc... Of course, the games shared the same base, but the tweaks were noticeable. It is my opinion, of course.

 

[loco]

WE8I is the same as PES4, only the name for the american version.
But WE8 Liveware Evolution (jap) is far better, fixed and balanced version of one of the most offensive PES game from this era.

After WE9, my two favorite are that version and WE7I jap version (PES3 "fixed" version i could say, at least from my point of view). WE5FE play too much differently than those game that it's hard to class them in a ranking... The chess-football is very, very pronounced, that's what makes his charm.

I won't talk about euro version in a ranking, it's better to rank by brand new version.
PES5/WE9, WE7/PES3/WE7I (jap), WE5/PES1/WE5FE, WE8/PES4/WE8LE share the same engine modifications, and plays practically the same in terms of gameplay features, but with some "fix", and those fixes are significant and makes some big changes in the balance, speed, etc.

Note about "versions" and changes : usually, the first and second version for the same game are quite similar, sometimes the first better than the other (PES6 is better than WE10), but the latest is always the better.
The only exception is with WE9/PES5/JLWE9 : the first version is the best by far, try and test it. The latest version is similar to PES5.

Note 2 PC version WE9LE don't have rosters updated, the difference with PES5 is really small... To be honest i can't feel it at all.

Also PES1 and WE5 Final Evolution plays totally differently than every version i've tried, it's truely the PES essence for me. They're a bit "appart" i can't class them in a ranking. It's my favorite version to play ATM.

Sorry if that post is confusing with all that name dropping

Don't forget about WE 6 being better than WE 6 FE (a mediocre game). WE 6 International made up for it though.

 

[vialli82]

Noticeably perhaps, but not significantly like the "Final Evolution" or "Liveware Evolution" versions, with even different game modes, rosters, and some of thems have refined graphics (like PES2 and WE6FE)
Changes you've said are perhaps between, i could say WE7 and PES3.

But what i didn't know, is that those games, even with roster not updated and exactly same game changes, are different to play: i thinked the game wasn't refined at all, seeing that, and even while playing.
WE9LE was a korean version released practically one year after PES5, so yes it's normal that it's different. Didn't played it that much to be honest...
What i don't understand neither, is that it's the same "unfinished" rosters as PES5 from summers transfers.

But i can tell you that WE9 jap version feels significantly different to PES5/WE9LE at the first abort, perhaps the "same game" with the most different feeling. And there was proof in the past, while the tournament we've made was practically twice less goals than PES5 at the time. Very hard to score.

 

[vialli82]

Don't forget about WE 6 being better than WE 6 FE (an mediocre game). WE 6 International made up for it though.

PES 2 was "average", didn't try the WE6 version at the time. Agree about WE6FE, i've replayed it and it's fast and horrible, perhaps one of the worst WE, with WE10 (PES6 was way much better in comparison)
WE8 and PES4 was also mediocre in terms of balance, but at least "fun", with full leagues on it for the first time, new rating stats system too, if you were interested on it it was significant.
Hopefully didn't played that much PES4, WE8LE saved the day (well, seasons)

Well, we've got all the time to replay and re-test it
I will try WE9 us version btw.

 

[lazoli]

@fmicablues7 Where did you find that WE8Int? Sounds impressive. Is there a download/patch or something?

I made a patch for that game also WE8I. Same mentality, only corrected team names, player names and correct kits(I think I got the kits were from Wolf’s patch which was amazing back then) Really a wonderful game!!

 

[fmicablues7]

I made a patch for that game also WE8I. Same mentality, only corrected team names, player names and correct kits(I think I got the kits were from Wolf’s patch which was amazing back then) Really a wonderful game!!

Still early days, but a great contender for PES 3 so far.

 

[loco]

Playing a little ISS 2000 (N64), ISS 3 (PC), and WE 5 FE (PS1) lately.All on emulators by the way.

ISS 3 is certainly an interesting experience in contrast to PES 4/5/6 and ISS 2000 a very enjoyable game.

 

[loco]

Still early days, but a great contender for PES 3 so far.

PES 3 is a great contender to WE 7 International. And WE 8 International is up there too.

 

[WhoAteMeDinner]

The ISS games are sort of bubble gum or fluff when compared to the PES series. They remind me more of arcade soccer games like Dream Soccer or Football Champ. (minus the punches and drop kicks ).

The later ISS games in the mid-2000s tried to be more PES-like but the gameplay remained a bit too light and shallow. Interesting how long the original ISS series went on for as there must have been demand still for pure entertainment football games, from ISS on the SNES in 1995 to the Playstation 2's ISS 3 in 2003, which I bought and was total pony.

 

[WhoAteMeDinner]

WE8I is the same as PES4, only the name for the american version.
But WE8 Liveware Evolution (jap) is far better, fixed and balanced version of one of the most offensive PES game from this era.

After WE9, my two favorite are that version and WE7I jap version (PES3 "fixed" version i could say, at least from my point of view). WE5FE play too much differently than those game that it's hard to class them in a ranking... The chess-football is very, very pronounced, that's what makes his charm.

I won't talk about euro version in a ranking, it's better to rank by brand new version.
PES5/WE9, WE7/PES3/WE7I (jap), WE5/PES1/WE5FE, WE8/PES4/WE8LE share the same engine modifications, and plays practically the same in terms of gameplay features, but with some "fix", and those fixes are significant and makes some big changes in the balance, speed, etc.

Note about "versions" and changes : usually, the first and second version for the same game are quite similar, sometimes the first better than the other (PES6 is better than WE10), but the latest is always the better.
The only exception is with WE9/PES5/JLWE9 : the first version is the best by far, try and test it. The latest version is similar to PES5.

Note 2 PC version WE9LE don't have rosters updated, the difference with PES5 is really small... To be honest i can't feel it at all.

Also PES1 and WE5 Final Evolution plays totally differently than every version i've tried, it's truely the PES essence for me. They're a bit "appart" i can't class them in a ranking. It's my favorite version to play ATM.

Sorry if that post is confusing with all that name dropping

@vialli82 , I am totally befuddled by all these PES / WE / World Soccer versions and updates. Are there about four different editions of every PES game ? That would make around seventy odd games.

A foofer and faffer of all PES PC games' option files and databases would have a goddamn stroke trying to make mods of all these editions.

 

[miguelfcp]

@vialli82 , I am totally befuddled by all these PES / WE / World Soccer versions and updates. Are there about four different editions of every PES game ? That would make around seventy odd games.

A foofer and faffer of all PES PC games' option files and databases would have a goddamn stroke trying to make mods of all these editions.

(...)A foofer and faffer of all PES PC games' option files and databases would have a goddamn stroke trying to make mods of all these editions.

(...)trying to make mods of all these editions.

 

[miguelfcp]

ML United . Generations Mode - Season 9 - PES08 PS2

4 league fixtures to end the season and, just like last season, this will surely be one of our most successful years since starting the save.
The squad as a whole is reaching its peak. Only two of our starting eleven players are under 27, newgens Jackson and Fredriksson, while Stein (33) Ordaz (29) and Ruskin (28) are some of the oldest. These three, alongside Jaric, Baumann, Van Den Berg, Moubarki and Hamsun have either stopped developing their stats at all or are timidly evolving one or two of them, and at a slow pace. Only Gutierrez (27) is actively evolving though not as fast as he did a few seasons ago, and certainly not at Kim Myon Un or Delios' pace - the two most recent ML United acquisitions, both 18 years old -; and he's probably doing so because of his wonderful ratings in matches which affects player development positively.

So as you can see it's now or never for the ML Defaults, before they fade away into less important roles in our team as they start showing signs of aging, and before their inevitable retirement, to be replaced by newgens. Still, it's impressive that on Season 9 I've been able to keep a core of defaults, only using 2 newgens in our starting-11. I've refused to replace most of them because I really want them to lift as many trophies as they can while they're active.
I can almost see a younger guy reading this, and wondering why the hell is that important at all, "mate you're playing a game, who cares about that". But the older crowd here will certainly understand that these Defaults are more than just players or characters in a videogame, they're what PES is all about. A hundred years from now, whenever someone mentions the words "Pro Evolution Soccer" you bet it won't remind anyone of myClub or any real-life team on any given version; it'll be the Castolos and Minandas of the Default squad, the guys that made PES such an unique, out-of-the-box experience of gaming.

Now, the save: With just a few matches to go we're fighting for 3 titles on every competition (D1, D1 Cup and WEFA Championships).

Title frenzy #1 - D1 Cup

Spoiler: ..

Our 3rd DCup win in 9 years, the 2nd in a row. Our final match against Besiktas (2-0) was much easier than the semifinals against Sporting, which was the defining point of our campaign.
A keen eye will notice that Ivarov is on the picture. Zamenhof would've been too if he showed up. Remember they retired mid-season? Well, after the retiring announcement screen showed up, I checked the squad and...both were still there! Never happened to me; when that announcement comes the players are wiped out of the squad immediately. Is this a bug? Because now I'm really on uncharted territory, does this mean they'll never retire and keep on collecting a paycheck here until they die of old age? Or they'll retire when they want without saying a word - which they will, because you surely can't get a second retirement announcement after the first one?
Anyhow, my friends, this is what Zamenhof does to people and machines alike. He has created the perfect framework for a proper farewell. He'll Zamenhof us like we've never been Zamenhofed before.

As for the D1 League, with just 4 fixtures to be played we're 4 points ahead of Galatasaray. Lokomotiv is 3rd but is already out of the fight for the top two spots so it'll be ML United vs Galatasaray until the end. Bayern and Benfica have won every single title since we were promoted to the D1, 4 seasons ago I believe. Now, Bayern (the titleholder) is holding on to a 6th place to get qualified for the WEFA competitions next year; Benfica (champions in Season 7) is...4 points away from the relegation zone!
This season hit the League like an atomic bomb, and it might shift the power balance for the following years as Galatasaray and ML United are beginning to capture Bayern and Benfica's domination, not just on the D1 League but on the D1 Cup as well.

Now the WEFA Championships; after our Masters Cup win last year, this time we were playing on the big boys' pool and...we're on the Final! Just beat Barcelona 0-3 in Camp Nou, lost 1-2 at home and clinched a place in the final match against...
...
Galatasaray.

 

[loco]

The ISS games are sort of bubble gum or fluff when compared to the PES series. They remind me more of arcade soccer games like Dream Soccer or Football Champ. (minus the punches and drop kicks ).

The later ISS games in the mid-2000s tried to be more PES-like but the gameplay remained a bit too light and shallow. Interesting how long the original ISS series went on for as there must have been demand still for pure entertainment football games, from ISS on the SNES in 1995 to the Playstation 2's ISS 3 in 2003, which I bought and was total pony.

ISS is as arcade as a PES 6/5/4/2 or WE 6 FE, and in some aspects like animation, better than those PES games.

 

[mattmid]

@miguelfcp Could the Treble be on!? Can the lads hold their nerve? Do you still have Galatasaray to play in the League yet?

Zamenhof has rigged the payroll software so that he keeps getting paid forever

 

[slamsoze]

ISS is as arcade as a PES 6/5/4/2 or WE 6 FE, and in some aspects like animation, better than those PES games.

Iss98 and 2000 in N64 have some very interesting aspects like the wet terrain from rain slowing the ball ,technically it sticks in waterholes when it bounces to grass,which was never reintroduced in any pes psx/ps2/ps3/ps4/pc etc.Even in the current pes the rain and weather effects are more visual cosmetics than real effects.
I only can’t tell for sure if the wind direction show in the prematch screen in pes5/pes6 has some impact in game.But as I played all pes chapters I can confirm for sure that until PES2018 rainy weather was only a visual effect.

 

[mattmid]

@slamsoze I agree although the rain did have an effect in slowing the movement of the ball for certain in some of them, definitely in PES6 the rain visibly slows the ball with it slowing up and staying in play at times on loose balls and there's a general feeling of heaviness about the match (maybe a placebo) I find.

 

[Madmac79]

I feel like we should go beyond "sim" and "arcade" to define this games, honestly. Fact is that there isn't a single football title in all history you can call a 100% sim attempt, so it just comes down to what simulative elements you personally consider the most important. Could be tactics, environment, players characterization and so on. But they are so many sides in the sports to reproduce and we all have our tastes.
Completely arcade to me it's Virtua Striker, or one of those random coin ops with super shoots and the such. It's out of place with Pes and even with the last ten years Fifa (like it or not).Even if I consider the same ISS as a lighter title than any Pes, it still has considerably deep component to be just boxed as "arcade".

p.s. of course I'm just talking about games in which you actually control the players, or else you could make a good argument of Football Manager and similar games being full simulations.

 

[PeterC10]

@slamsoze I agree although the rain did have an effect in slowing the movement of the ball for certain in some of them, definitely in PES6 the rain visibly slows the ball with it slowing up and staying in play at times on loose balls and there's a general feeling of heaviness about the match (maybe a placebo) I find.

I used to run a fantasy league (managed 5 full seasons) in PES 6 and rain definitely did have an effect. I particularly noticed the 'keepers had a lot more problems holding onto shots.

 

[slamsoze]

@slamsoze I agree although the rain did have an effect in slowing the movement of the ball for certain in some of them, definitely in PES6 the rain visibly slows the ball with it slowing up and staying in play at times on loose balls and there's a general feeling of heaviness about the match (maybe a placebo) I find.

I agree but it is so placebable that I cannot tell it 1000% for sure that it happens.
You know it will sound extremely weird now but in pes/iss I make many anorthodox trials sometimes to check how physics and ball is working in game.
For example I try manual long passes from different angles to check how free is the ball,how it bounces in the terrain when it is not under players control.In pes6 due to gameplays philosophy the ball is 75% of the time under either players possession so it is more difficult to see clear results.And comparing pes6 engine with iss2000 which has “Stone Age” technology I would expect more obvious results.Maybe I have overpowered expectations.
An other unorthodox experiment I do is try to throw the ball to the supporter standings to see how it interActs.On older pes it was bouncing like it was a flat wall and coming back to the court, from a point and after,or it was staying hidden in the crowd.The strange thing of how the ball physics is programmed,is that since pes2011 I cannnot throw the ball in standings.The most time 90% it hits the adboards no matter the long pass power gauge and comes back to terrain.
To make it clear I am trying to make the ball hit the crowd, bounce back and stay hidden behind the adboards but it is impossible until today.An invisible magnetic field keeps the ball in a certain height outside the throw in lines.

 

[Madmac79]

@slamsoze I was always so fascinated by the meteo stats before the game! They gave it such a pleasurable real life feel. No idea if they carry any real weight on the game tho.

As we discussed in the past, ISS surely had a really interesting take on rain and snow!

 

[slamsoze]

@Madmac79 yeah I remember weather impact being your wet dream in conclusion.Maybe the wind direction and humidity had some impact ie I remember in the vanilla game the corner flags moving differently in every stadium possibly affected by wind .Or that explains why the same corner with the same taker and input may have different outcome,going direct goal/goal kick etc.Always a dilemma if it is cause of weather effects or game momentum.

 

[miguelfcp]

@mattmid: I don't know for sure but I think we still have to play Galatasaray, yes.

Interesting discussion about weather effects, I'll have to pay more attention to it. On 08 PS2 the rain and snow have clear influence on a match, to a point that you have to adapt your style of play to it. Usually these are the more "PES-5-like" matches, with more midfield battles and less chances on goal. Now as for the wind and humidity, I have no idea if it has any impact.

 

[WhoAteMeDinner]

@slamsoze I agree although the rain did have an effect in slowing the movement of the ball for certain in some of them, definitely in PES6 the rain visibly slows the ball with it slowing up and staying in play at times on loose balls and there's a general feeling of heaviness about the match (maybe a placebo) I find.

@mattmid , exactly Cheesehead, exactly. No placebo effect at all, even as far back as PES 2, when playing in wet weather, the ball moved like a wet sponge and playing the ML with default players, scoring goals was impossible. Needed this bad boy up front back then........

 

[WhoAteMeDinner]

@mattmid: I don't know for sure but I think we still have to play Galatasaray, yes.

Interesting discussion about weather effects, I'll have to pay more attention to it. On 08 PS2 the rain and snow have clear influence on a match, to a point that you have to adapt your style of play to it. Usually these are the more "PES-5-like" matches, with more midfield battles and less chances on goal. Now as for the wind and humidity, I have no idea if it has any impact.

@miguelfcp , I agree too about the wind, even blowing a gale, it only had marginal impact on crosses and corners. But could help with the old whipped in-swinger. Right Arellano......

 

[WhoAteMeDinner]

The Champions League Draw on now, can hardly contain my excitement and anticipation.

 

[Rayemou]

im gonna try pro evo 3 on a 2009 netbook

1gb ram ddr2 667mhz, atom n270 @ 1.6ghz (equivalent to a 800mhz celeron of the time or a 2001 pentium 3 lol) and a 128mb integrated graphics card (gma950)

 

[mattmid]

@Madmac79 yeah I remember weather impact being your wet dream in conclusion.Maybe the wind direction and humidity had some impact ie I remember in the vanilla game the corner flags moving differently in every stadium possibly affected by wind .Or that explains why the same corner with the same taker and input may have different outcome,going direct goal/goal kick etc.Always a dilemma if it is cause of weather effects or game momentum.

It's funny because I was playing a cup last night with a weaker team and the previous round was in good weather (no accumulated fatigue on) while the second round was in heavy rain, the one where there's big splashes when the ball bounces and when players slide and I swear the fatigue also went down quicker, I hadn't really noticed or paid attention to that before or at least hadn't really given it the thought it deserved.

The Champions League Draw on now, can hardly contain my excitement and anticipation.

Can't say I have noticed it actually

Mini rant now about another cup competition. The Checkatrade with the under 23 teams If the Premier teams didn't stockpile all the young players then they'd already be playing men's football in the lower leagues. Problem solved! They used to start lower down and work their way up, giving the lower league clubs valuable income. Now they start at Premier League clubs on big money and work their way down to their actual level while half of them have become big time charlie's and don't want to take a pay cut and think they've already made it despite never having played for their club.

 

[rockstrongo]

Any of you PS two'ers give me advice on these controllers?
The PS2 is dirt cheap,but no original controllers included!
Help a brother out

 

[mattmid]

Any of you PS two'ers give me advice on these controllers?

You hold them in your hands and those buttons... oh wait that's not what you meant right?

I'm on PC but they look similar to the controller's I usually get which are only about £5-£6 (60 krona?). If they're the same/similar then if they're cheap they'll do you well enough. I've had them last anywhere from a few months to over a year which might not sound great but for £5... The only bit that goes is the bit inside the analogue stick as it's plastic and breaks if you over do it or just eventually. But you get what you pay for I guess.

 

[rockstrongo]

You hold them in your hands and those buttons... oh wait that's not what you meant right?

I'm on PC but they look similar to the controller's I usually get which are only about £5-£6 (60 krona?). If they're the same/similar then if they're cheap they'll do you well enough. I've had them last anywhere from a few months to over a year which might not sound great but for £5... The only bit that goes is the bit inside the analogue stick as it's plastic and breaks if you over do it or just eventually. But you get what you pay for I guess.

Nope,meant how you hold em
Yeah guess they're plastic and will break after a while,but if they work properly (controls etc) I'm good.

I hate my PS3 controller ,described by many as a mid evil torture device
So I'm using this instead,works for pc as well,feels like a Ps4 controller (which I could use but expensive)
This one cost 299 kroner (£ 25-29)


Thanks mate