The Retro-PES Corner

@Chris Davies You're right, of course, although perhaps the more worrying trend for the second set of guys is Konami seem to heading the FIFA route as well. Which, although I get from an income point of view, I don't understand how they think they will grab EA's customer's by doing so.

EA do what they do well, it's not for me but that's irrelevant. They have got their game into the mainstream casual football fan as you say, they have players in England involved and no doubt everywhere else too. Tweeting their FIFA card and so on. There's no chance Konami are going to muscle in on that so you would think they'd go another route rather than try to copy and end up possibly losing what they do have by being neither one nor the other.
 
@mattmid Certainly, there's something about Japanese culture that is embedded in the game. It's more about an ideal on how the sport should look and be played within their aesthetics and honor codes, than what the sport really is.
 
mattmid said:
There's no chance Konami are going to muscle in on that so you would think they'd go another route rather than try to copy and end up possibly losing what they do have by being neither one nor the other.
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I absolutely could not agree more. You cannot out-FIFA FIFA. But that's what they're trying to do, even down to "myClub uses cards now". For no reason. Other than, FIFA represent players as cards.

It's echoed in their treatment of their community; either last year or the year before, the usual PES community guys were invited to Windsor to playtest the game, but at the same time, some FIFA YouTubers were invited to the Nou Camp - where they got to play football on the pitch, then playtest the game.

They clearly expected those guys to go home and advertise to a much larger audience "hey, PES is great" - but both games have a fiercely loyal fanbase. If you go to a PES feed and suddenly it's a guy saying "hey FIFA's great", every comment is going to be "NO IT'S NOT" and "SELLOUT". It works both ways...
 
Rankings table

Goals/Asists

Best performance : Hugo Sanchez - 5 goals against Iberia
Plonker of the week " Francesco Toldo - https://streamable.com/a3nk4
No way! - Dunga scored two goals in one game.

Game is harder than usual, probably because i'm playing with more than one user team. PES is thinking "Oh, i see, 18 user teams and only one gamepad is plugged in, you trying to trick me, you human bastard!" And, Liverani is brilliant!
 
Chris Davies said:
It's echoed in their treatment of their community; either last year or the year before, the usual PES community guys were invited to Windsor to playtest the game, but at the same time, some FIFA YouTubers were invited to the Nou Camp - where they got to play football on the pitch, then playtest the game.
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I didn't know that. That's very naive isn't it? Also a bit of a kick in the teeth to the loyal PES guys who got to go to Winsdor instead!

Not exclusively by any means I know, but I always thought of it as FIFA is the new football fan, brought in by the likes of Sky inventing football in the early nineties, the one who films the game on his phone in between tweeting and checking their facebook, instead of actually being in the moment and watching the football, while PES was the lower league fan who was there for the love of the game come rain or shine. His loyalty only strengthened by the run of defeats, waiting to savour that game where he comes away and says, that's why I go to football.
 
loco said:
@Madmac79 Honestly, the main guys from Konami Japan have never read a single post from this forum. So this is not the right place to give feedback since developers and producers don't "hang-out" here.
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Never talked about this particular forum. You can give your well articulated opinion about the lack of fundamentals here, on twitter or on one of their annual surveys, and I feel like the result would be exactly the same. They either just don't care about our kind of feedback for a precise direction they took, or we are an embarassing minority compared to who asks for latest faces, hairdos and such. Or both. In any case "we" are irrelevant.
 
On the subject of the upcoming game, I'm not at all interested in getting it for many reasons:
- I don't have the hardware to run it. I always bought a new PlayStation because of PES since the PS1 days - and 80/90% of my playing time ended up being spent on a PES game -, but when the PS4 came along I simply didn't think PES was a good enough game to compel me to get the console.
- I simply stopped caring. Maybe it's me getting older, but whereas in the past I was heavily invested on getting the newest games and consoles, now I just don't give a sh*t. Even the sight of a new PS used to "make my blood boil" with excitment, now I'm indifferent to it.
- The latest PES games are not strong enough arguments to convince me. Probably a truly revolutionary football game would make me upgrade my PC/get a new console but it had to be something completely out of the box, something never ever seen before; certainly a game whose main game mode is an animated card game doesn't belong in that category. Card games were fun like 20 years ago when people were playing the Pokemon Trading Card game in recess, but as we're on the verge of the "boom" of VR gaming I expect much much better.

The last reason fits the purpose of this thread:
- I'm satisfied with retro-PES gaming. I don't care about graphics, 360 player movement; the only thing I expect is to finish a 1hour/1h30 gaming session and feel like I was entertained and immersed in the experience. A lot of games out there, not just retro-PES games, do provide me that experience in a consistent basis.
 
miguelfcp said:
On the subject of the upcoming game, I'm not at all interested in getting it for many reasons:
- I don't have the hardware to run it. I always bought a new PlayStation because of PES since the PS1 days - and 80/90% of my playing time ended up being spent on a PES game -, but when the PS4 came along I simply didn't think PES was a good enough game to compel me to get the console.
- I simply stopped caring. Maybe it's me getting older, but whereas in the past I was heavily invested on getting the newest games and consoles, now I just don't give a sh*t. Even the sight of a new PS used to "make my blood boil" with excitment, now I'm indifferent to it.
- The latest PES games are not strong enough arguments to convince me. Probably a truly revolutionary football game would make me upgrade my PC/get a new console but it had to be something completely out of the box, something never ever seen before; certainly a game whose main game mode is an animated card game doesn't belong in that category. Card games were fun like 20 years ago when people were playing the Pokemon Trading Card game in recess, but as we're on the verge of the "boom" of VR gaming I expect much much better.

The last reason fits the purpose of this thread:
- I'm satisfied with retro-PES gaming. I don't care about graphics, 360 player movement; the only thing I expect is to finish a 1hour/1h30 gaming session and feel like I was entertained and immersed in the experience. A lot of games out there, not just retro-PES games, do provide me that experience in a consistent basis.
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@miguelfcp, mig, you still play on a physical Playstation 2 as well ?
 
WhoAteMeDinner said:
:BY:
Great, you have more pull on this thread, I am asking people to reply to me if they have a physical Playstation 2 and are playing their PES games on it as I maintain it is the true PES gaming experience.
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Get the PC out, play with the keyboard and man up :D:LOL: Big Sam would have it no other way. Actually his fingers would be too big probably. Talking of BS I wonder if he'll offer his services if Mourinho gets sacked? He'll come in for £10m and keep them up :D
 
@WhoAteMeDinner: I feel somewhat dirty when playing PES on PC so I understand your point. It's amazing how a 15-year-old console is still able to run the games flawlessly these days...
 
miguelfcp said:
On the subject of the upcoming game, I'm not at all interested in getting it for many reasons:
- I don't have the hardware to run it. I always bought a new PlayStation because of PES since the PS1 days - and 80/90% of my playing time ended up being spent on a PES game -, but when the PS4 came along I simply didn't think PES was a good enough game to compel me to get the console.
- I simply stopped caring. Maybe it's me getting older, but whereas in the past I was heavily invested on getting the newest games and consoles, now I just don't give a sh*t. Even the sight of a new PS used to "make my blood boil" with excitment, now I'm indifferent to it.
- The latest PES games are not strong enough arguments to convince me. Probably a truly revolutionary football game would make me upgrade my PC/get a new console but it had to be something completely out of the box, something never ever seen before; certainly a game whose main game mode is an animated card game doesn't belong in that category. Card games were fun like 20 years ago when people were playing the Pokemon Trading Card game in recess, but as we're on the verge of the "boom" of VR gaming I expect much much better.

The last reason fits the purpose of this thread:
- I'm satisfied with retro-PES gaming. I don't care about graphics, 360 player movement; the only thing I expect is to finish a 1hour/1h30 gaming session and feel like I was entertained and immersed in the experience. A lot of games out there, not just retro-PES games, do provide me that experience in a consistent basis.
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@miguelfcp , other gaming studios need to get back in the football game market. I agree with previous posters on that. This would kick FIFA and Konami up their lazy asses and maybe innovate more.

Back in the late 1990s Playstation and Saturn era, the giants of the Sony and Sega spurred game developers to create a variety of football games: Adidas Power Soccer and Actua Soccer series and standalone and lesser stuff like Three Lions, UEFA Striker and Backyard Soccer, below.

 
mattmid said:
Get the PC out, play with the keyboard and man up :D:LOL: Big Sam would have it no other way. Actually his fingers would be too big probably. Talking of BS I wonder if he'll offer his services if Mourinho gets sacked? He'll come in for £10m and keep them up :D
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Ahhhh Jose, where did it all go wrong ? Someone said he hinted that he wanted more RESPECT. :NONO:

Big Sam is already on the motorway, his legion of staff are in a bus behind him. :COAT::COAT::COAT:
 
Default Originals Challenge, PES 6, Playstation 2, Restart Number 8

With more GAME OVER screens than Jose Mourinho dirty looks at the press. It may surprise some than I will continue. It is just such a fun challenge, as my homies @miguelfcp and @mattmid can tell you, winning a game in the first few seasons is an unusual enough event, with the default guys all being so slow and useless early on.

Will have a mid-season one update by this time tomorrow. :PRAY::PRAY::PRAY:
 
No PES 2019 for me either this year. I am quite content with Pes 2008 right now. This version surely does feel like the "sweet" spot for retro pes gaming. Actually, I have been keeping track of the hours spent on this version and it is creeping up to elite status with 300+ hours played.

It is about to join...

F1 06 500+ hours
Generally (free top down racing game) 450+ hours
Winning Eleven 9 400+ hours
Age of Empires 3 350+ hours

I am a simple man, football and F1 can keep me entertained for thousands of hours!
 
Guys, you really need to try WE8Int. Such an underrated game. It is basically a fixed PES4. It has an attacking AI comparable to PES3 and PES2008, PES3's number of fouls and PES5's engine. Off-the-ball movement is superb and there is a lot of diversity. Shooting was awkward at first (coming from PES 3, where the shots are rockets when you slightly tap the shoot button), but i get used to it. Oh, and the kitserver supports high resolution in-game, so it's also a joy to watch good graphics.
 
@fmicablues7 interesting. At the times I played a fair share of WE8, Pes4, WE8 Liveware Evolution (the most fun of them all) and even WE8 J-L, but I assume this is an entire other title and I've probably completely missed it (speaking of.. how many titles used to come out for just one year at the times? lol).

Are you playing PC version?
 
Madmac79 said:
@fmicablues7 interesting. At the times I played a fair share of WE8, Pes4, WE8 Liveware Evolution (the most fun of them all) and even WE8 J-L, but I assume this is an entire other title and I've probably completely missed it (speaking of.. how many titles used to come out for just one year at the times? lol).

Are you playing PC version?
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True, all these different versions released by Konami were really confusing.
WE8Int was released in USA a few months after PES4. I think i read somewhere in this forum, that WE8LE tweaks were similar to WE8Int tweaks. I'm not sure since i didn't play the former.
I play the PC version, yes.
 
Guys, I don't know if you like writing but I encourage you to write reviews about those games you're playing, particularly games like @fmicablues7 and @Madmac79 have been playing or played lately like J-League 2008 and Winning Eleven 8 International. This is just an idea but I'm 100% sure it'd be very valuable for many people out there, in which I include myself, who probably never played any of those less-known games and would appreciate if people playing it could write a modern-day review of these games of the past, helping us assess what those versions have to offer currently.
 
I was 10 minutes late.
Called up on an ad for a ps2,7 games (all shit) but a slim PS2 with two original controllers
€28 for it
10 minutes late man...
 
Madmac79 said:
@fmicablues7 interesting. At the times I played a fair share of WE8, Pes4, WE8 Liveware Evolution (the most fun of them all) and even WE8 J-L, but I assume this is an entire other title and I've probably completely missed it (speaking of.. how many titles used to come out for just one year at the times? lol).

Are you playing PC version?
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I was thinking the same yesterday.On the one hand it is good cause we have variables of the same version with tweaks and fixes.
On the other hand I find sometimes a little bit “bitchy” from KONAMi to ship better polished titles in East Asia than west world.
And for today it is ok with all this tech.But for that era,the early 00’s when the internet was dial-up,the forums were in baby form and shopping through internet was not common for South and East Europe countries.There is not even internet bibliography for most of that games.
 
slamsoze said:
I was thinking the same yesterday.On the one hand it is good cause we have variables of the same version with tweaks and fixes.
On the other hand I find sometimes a little bit “bitchy” from KONAMi to ship better polished titles in East Asia than west world.
And for today it is ok with all this tech.But for that era,the early 00’s when the internet was dial-up,the forums were in baby form and shopping through internet was not common for South and East Europe countries.There is not even internet bibliography for most of that games.
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Yes, for the past time wasn't the ideal, I agree with you.. even though honestly, at least most of the important Japan WEs used to arrive here the same.. a way or another :D.

For today's retrogaming, it's simply a blessing. There are a lot of lost gems that truly feels unique one with another, even among the same "chapter". I think about all those variations kinda as the gameplay patches software houses develop during the year in our modern era, only bigger and more polished as they had to sold as an almost brand new game.

My biggest problem with nowadays patch, however, is that they just overwrite elements of the previous gameplay as it happens with both Pes and Fifa (mostly), and if you liked something that once was there, guess what? Lost forever.

p.s. by the way WE 8I is truly impressive from the bits I've tried. Will talk in details about it when I'll try it a little more.
 
mattmid said:
@fmicablues7 Where did you find that WE8Int? Sounds impressive. Is there a download/patch or something?
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WE8I is the same as PES4, only the name for the american version.
But WE8 Liveware Evolution (jap) is far better, fixed and balanced version of one of the most offensive PES game from this era.

After WE9, my two favorite are that version and WE7I jap version (PES3 "fixed" version i could say, at least from my point of view). WE5FE play too much differently than those game that it's hard to class them in a ranking... The chess-football is very, very pronounced, that's what makes his charm.

I won't talk about euro version in a ranking, it's better to rank by brand new version.
PES5/WE9, WE7/PES3/WE7I (jap), WE5/PES1/WE5FE, WE8/PES4/WE8LE share the same engine modifications, and plays practically the same in terms of gameplay features, but with some "fix", and those fixes are significant and makes some big changes in the balance, speed, etc.

Note about "versions" and changes : usually, the first and second version for the same game are quite similar, sometimes the first better than the other (PES6 is better than WE10), but the latest is always the better.
The only exception is with WE9/PES5/JLWE9 : the first version is the best by far, try and test it. The latest version is similar to PES5.

Note 2 PC version WE9LE don't have rosters updated, the difference with PES5 is really small... To be honest i can't feel it at all.

Also PES1 and WE5 Final Evolution plays totally differently than every version i've tried, it's truely the PES essence for me. They're a bit "appart" i can't class them in a ranking. It's my favorite version to play ATM.

Sorry if that post is confusing with all that name dropping :LOL:
 
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