The Retro-PES Corner

[Anjin]

So true @mattmid and @miguelfcp I too have had players who just lost their mojo at some point, especially Barbonez who was sent out to Prague. And now am worried another ones might join him

Will post season 6 story soon enough. We've won the title but our reign in Europe has been lost. TL;DR is I shouldn't be playing while drunk

Just having a rough time irl atm, but this thread always cheers me up. Best thread ever 10/10 what even is pes2019 lolmao.

 

[geeeeee]

@Anjin sorry to hear about the rough time. Pleased to see your post

 

[mattmid]

@Anjin Sorry to hear that, keep your chin up. Look forward to your next update.

 

[Special4988]

@miguelfcp Like others have said, I definitely agree with player form increasing and dipping, (despite what the form arrows say). I am not sure if this was programmed intentionally or not but I think it is quite genius. It seems more realistic this way as you really have to watch your players during the game, and not just look at form arrows and numbers.

I hate to be that guy... But it seems like the new gen games don't have these neat little quirks that us hardcore PES fans discover and appreciate. Obviously the focus on online has hurt this... Thanks Fifa Ultimate Team!

 

[mattmid]

EDIT: Mad, that's a great idea. We could also have a "Retro-PES goal of the week/month" contest, what do you guys think?

How about an own goal of the week competition. I think I have it in the bag.

Spoiler: Taxi!

 

[miguelfcp]

I'm glad I'm not alone in this!

@mattmid: The strange thing is that the "consistency" attribute disappeared after PES5...or did it? Maybe the attribute remained there but is hidden...I call it The Consistency Conspiracy!
...doth my eyes deceive me? Is that the first-ever sighting of...The No-Look-Own-Goal? Zamenhof's No-Look-Goal-Kick has inspired the youth with his abundant flair and flamboyant approach to the beautiful game!

@Anjin: The Retro-PES brotherhood stands by your side, hope you get through those times as boldly as the PES3 Commonwealth breezes by its opponents on your ML!
It's true, never ceases to amaze me how we've been able to build and maintain this culture of Retro-PES in such a relaxed, positive and welcoming way; hard thing to accomplish these days for the internet seems to have so much anger flying around abundantly and everywhere you look.

@Special4988: Exactly, if forces you to be more critical when judging who's on form or not, and not relying only on obvious indicators such as condition arrows or fatigue. Helps one feel even more immersed in the experience.

 

[Special4988]

I was always curious about a couple of things on these older gen PES games and have done numerous google searches to find the answers, but maybe some of you guys would know...

What does the "mentality" stat actually affect? And how would I be able to observe it in-game? Both for human controlled and AI controlled players.

What is the consensus for the game which has the least amount of scripting in it? I have played PES games long enough where I can tell when an AI goal is coming. I have been playing PES 2014 PSP and so far 3 games into my ML, I have noticed no blatant scripting. It's quite refreshing! Playing on Top player BTW. I heard that certain games or modes had worse scripting, like ML and cup matches?

Thanks for any input!

 

[Chilleverest]

Since i cant seem to get into newer pes, ive been alternating between pes 6, we8le and seldom we7i ML. Currently in deep with pes 6 ML.

I set few requirements to get the Dark Soul type experience which i think has been pretty tough on first few seasons. First requirement was to keep the default ML teams with only two foreign players off the market. ML points set to absolute minimum. I bought Matic 202cm(unaffiliated) because of his physical presence which helps a lot in holding the ball, but his base stat as an 18 year old is abysmal. However, i bought a 28 yr old Bartolik, 169cm tall, who is an absolute unit on the ball. He honestly feels more solid than Adriano in holding the ball as he run things around the midfield.

Another important restriction is to not exploit players like Bartolik to the point where the game feel inorganic.

After 3 seasons, i finally managed to promote the team to division one. My next season, as a Gooner, will be aimed for 'The Invincible' title as i grow more confident with some of my key players such as Libermann, Ordaz, Ruskin and Jaric.

 

[geeeeee]

@miguelfcp the ‘consistency’ stat is still there...hidden away...in PESfan editor. My plan, once i finish this OF (hopefully you guys will still be here), is to increase ‘consistency’ to 8 for the really top top players and see if it makes a difference.

@Special4988 the ‘mentality’ stat affects the way the player will react if the team concedes a goal. I’m sure you have played games where your team is doing well but then you go 1-0 down and suddenly your players cannot seem to pass the ball. That could be because the ‘mentality’ stat is low for some of the players so they ‘let their head drop’. But players with high ‘mentality’ will try to grab the game by the scruff of the neck to get the team back in it. Gerrard was one of these types of players. I normally make my highest ‘mentality’ player the captain.

 

[Marlon Anthony]

What is the consensus for the game which has the least amount of scripting in it? I have played PES games long enough where I can tell when an AI goal is coming. I have been playing PES 2014 PSP and so far 3 games into my ML, I have noticed no blatant scripting. It's quite refreshing! Playing on Top player BTW. I heard that certain games or modes had worse scripting, like ML and cup matches?

Thanks for any input!

Just wait until you're balls deep my friend, it'll emerge eventually haha. I think all the game have a degree of scripting that becomes severely apparent in ML or Competition modes than it does in exhibition. I think sometimes some people don't notice it too much or take too much offence to it because they're playing as smaller and weaker teams so it feels like you should be vulnerable or struggling.

I find scripting frustrates us more when we know we're playing as a superior team or even sometimes playing superior football and you can feel the in game forces pulling defenders into absolutely ridiculous positions that a professionally trained top flight footballer wouldn't ever find themselves in or team mates running into each others way to ruin good attacking opportunities and then of the course conceding the hocus pocus goals out of nothing.

@miguelfcp the ‘consistency’ stat is still there...hidden away...in PESfan editor. My plan, once i finish this OF (hopefully you guys will still be here), is to increase ‘consistency’ to 8 for the really top top players and see if it makes a difference.

@Special4988 the ‘mentality’ stat affects the way the player will react if the team concedes a goal. I’m sure you have played games where your team is doing well but then you go 1-0 down and suddenly your players cannot seem to pass the ball. That could be because the ‘mentality’ stat is low for some of the players so they ‘let their head drop’. But players with high ‘mentality’ will try to grab the game by the scruff of the neck to get the team back in it. Gerrard was one of these types of players. I normally make my highest ‘mentality’ player the captain.

Fascinating insight into attributes I didn't realise really affected anything. I thought they were just there for novelty but didn't really affect anything from a mechanics standpoint.

 

[geeeeee]

@MafiaMurderBag yes these stats definitely make a difference. Even against human opponents you can feel that ‘shift’ in mentality. It can even happen when you score, some players may become a bit too relaxed because their mentality is low so they might make the odd mistake.

Team Work is another one which has a big impact. If this is low then the player won’t gel as well with his team mates. That’s why playing with the Default ML team can be so difficult to begin because there is no cohesion. But once that stat rises then they start to gel together.

They are little subtle effects but this is what makes retro PES so much better than modern PES.

 

[slamsoze]

@MafiaMurderBag yes these stats definitely make a difference. Even against human opponents you can feel that ‘shift’ in mentality. It can even happen when you score, some players may become a bit too relaxed because their mentality is low so they might make the odd mistake.

Team Work is another one which has a big impact. If this is low then the player won’t gel as well with his team mates. That’s why playing with the Default ML team can be so difficult to begin because there is no cohesion. But once that stat rises then they start to gel together.

They are little subtle effects but this is what makes retro PES so much better than modern PES.

Yeah teamwork used to be the todays TeamSpirit before it was cool.And the big difference is today's TS is so binary and blatant.Big TS team plays normal,low TS team plays crap.
On the other hand Teamwork is so much uber contexual.For every change in the squad teamwork changes according to the other 10 teamates.It is something magnificent and genius. ALWAYS used to study teamwork in PEs 5/6 and was amazed how did they achieved it with CPU of that time (ps2 golden era).And really annoyed me when they jumped to new gens and better hardware , how simplistically it was nerfed , from starting from 40 in pes 2011 and having just one global effect to the today's simple TeamSpirit number.It was a complete wasted chance to develop something terrific.An AI that can calculate how good can cooperate,having a type of consciousness.

 

[Special4988]

@geeeeee Good explanation of the mentality stat. Quite impressive of the game developers to implement that in a "old" game. It made me realize that when the developers didn't have to spend so much resources on the online aspect they could really add some neat things "under the hood" of these older gen PES games.

It got me thinking about the transition for the PES games from 8-directional to complete 360 freedom. I think this may have caused the engine to go backwards with regards to instead of player attributes deciding the outcome of tackles, shots, and dribbling they used more scripting to compensate for the complexity of possible outcomes. Just thinking about it from a programming point of view, if Player A moves 45 degrees to their left, and defender Player B is in a defined proximity of Player A, the game engine performs a quick calculation of Player A's agility, dribbling, etc. and Player B's tackling ability and other linking stats = a set number of possible outcomes. Sure, the animations and such might not look super realistic, but us players are satisfied because the outcome seemed realistic based on each players stats. Compared to how complex the game engine is in the newer games, I could easily see the programmers using shortcuts(scripting) to make the game appear looking more realistic and smooth by cutting down on pure programmable outcomes based on player stats.

Maybe I have no idea what I am talking about??? But playing some glory day PES last night got me thinking about this...


@MafiaMurderBag Haha, yes my friend. Yeah now that you mention it I do notice these little cues when it feels like the CPU wants to score or win. Sometimes when this happens I just turn the game off out of frustration. But in a day or 2 I always come back! Kind of a dysfunctional relationship I reckon...

 

[WhoAteMeDinner]

@miguelfcp No, I don't think you are crazy, I'm also convinced the players go through phases in ML, little spells when they are hot and little spells when they might as well be Castolo. Hamsun seems to score his goals in spurts. I guess the consistency rating is at play there. I do wish the arrows weren't so extreme because it can be frustrating when the ai leaves out it's three best players because they have down arrows.

@mattmid , totally agree about Fouque, as an AMF with passing and shot stats that are very high. He hardly ever makes a big contribution in a game and almost never scores despite having a powerful shooting stat.

And all players in PES Master Leagues, real life players included, go through hot and cold spells in terms of form. Dario Silva has started my PES 3 Master League, second season in Division One with no goals in seven league and cup games. But I have Gigi Riva (classic player regen), Arellano and Heinrich (from sweeper ) banging in goals all over the place, so I am into the second round of the Division 2 Cup and fourth in the league. When the Uruguayan hitman returns to goalscoring ways, we will be flying.

 

[Chilleverest]

Can anyone here please give me an optimized psx2 setting for pes 2008 ? I've succumbed to the hype you guys have created around this game and downloaded it.

 

[Special4988]

Can anyone here please give me an optimized psx2 setting for pes 2008 ? I've succumbed to the hype you guys have created around this game and downloaded it.

I never really gave PES 2008 a chance until last night I was playing it on my PSP. WOW What a game it truly is...

@geeeeee I ended up reading the entire thread you created about PES 2008. You nailed it with the AI offensive building up play in different ways.

I too have struggled with trying to play it on the emulator. PSP version is OK, but lags when a lot of people in the box. So so graphics, minimal commentary, and only 1 stadium. I am thinking about just buying a PS2 for this 1 game to have the superior version.

 

[Cyrax77]

For me personally, PES5 was the best. I never liked PES6 because i found it too arcadey. But after about 10 years of playing PES5 the AI attack is not challenging anymore even with stat changes (although the ML challenges that the guys have set out in this thread would have kept it going longer).

Anyways having rediscovered PES2008 the PS2 version i have found the AI attack is far better and the defence is still hard to break down. It has fouls too, although i would prefer PES5 amount of free kicks.

Anything later than PES2008 on the PS2 the AI is just one dimensional and there are hardly any fouls.

Same here, I love PES5 and it is by far my most played PES. I was a good player those days and played tournaments and for money in Holland with that game. I stopped playing tournaments after PES6. To be honest, I have never felt so connected to a PES game ever since.

Now I am old and I´m losing matches to my 15 year old son in PES 2018. He has average skills but he still beats me in 2 out of 10 matches. In PES5 and before that, with his skills, he would never win a match against me.

I can still show some magic here and there, but somehow the true feeling is gone when it comes to PES. But when he invites friends over to play some PES, my spider senses suddenly come back (do I smell a challenge) and I'll destroy those boys big time. He loves it when I do that. But then, after the matches, my hand hurts, my shoulder is burning and I need to relax (nah, just kidding) a bit.

 

[miguelfcp]

To me, the greatest thing about the Mentality attribute is that one can't help but feel positively affected by the demonstration of bravery of a player with high Mentality...sometimes I'm losing a match and I kind of "give up" even before the match has ended; but then Stein (almost 90 mentality) starts leading by example with his fighting for every ball and he seems to play even better when the situation is adverse. One can't help but be encouraged just by watching him, and I get a renewed ambition to fight for that match. I feel like I can't let a guy like Stein down. This is crazy, but the ingame effect of the mentality stat is so obvious that affects the game itself but also affects us, in real-life. Maybe it's one of the reasons why Retro-PES is such an immersive experience.

Also the Teamwork stat is very important too. A team filled with high teamwork guys will play like a unit defensively and offensively (think Guardiola's Barcelona or Simeone's Atletico), and when you the player have the ball, a high-teamwork CPU teammate will be more intelligent when providing passing lanes for you. For me it's the PES equivalent of "football IQ". My newgen CMF Sousa has 89 TW and it's a beauty to see his off-the-ball play.

About scripting, I don't want to ruin your experience @Special4988 but on the PSP versions it's definitely there. I don't see it as a bad thing though. In real-life you see awkward stuff like a team fighting to avoid relegation beating the previously unbeaten 1st placed (coff coff...Porto last year vs. Paços de Ferreira...), or a team suddenly unable to win matches as if a spell had been cast on them. Inasmuch I think it forces you to become proactive and change things up to get your team back on track.

Great analysis there @Special4988, for it's leading you to a conclusion I'm still not certain of after much thinking about it, but I suspect it's true: 360 movement greatly augmented the difficulty to create a stats-based football game and current developer knowledge/tecnhology still haven't figured that out. But I'm far from a programmer, so I wouldn't know for sure.

By the way, welcome to the Corner (and Evo-Web) @Cyrax77! Do you play any Retro-PES games these days?

 

[Cyrax77]

To me, the greatest thing about the Mentality attribute is that one can't help but feel positively affected by the demonstration of bravery of a player with high Mentality...sometimes I'm losing a match and I kind of "give up" even before the match has ended; but then Stein (almost 90 mentality) starts leading by example with his fighting for every ball and he seems to play even better when the situation is adverse. One can't help but be encouraged just by watching him, and I get a renewed ambition to fight for that match. I feel like I can't let a guy like Stein down. This is crazy, but the ingame effect of the mentality stat is so obvious that affects the game itself but also affects us, in real-life. Maybe it's one of the reasons why Retro-PES is such an immersive experience.

Also the Teamwork stat is very important too. A team filled with high teamwork guys will play like a unit defensively and offensively (think Guardiola's Barcelona or Simeone's Atletico), and when you the player have the ball, a high-teamwork CPU teammate will be more intelligent when providing passing lanes for you. For me it's the PES equivalent of "football IQ". My newgen CMF Sousa has 89 TW and it's a beauty to see his off-the-ball play.

About scripting, I don't want to ruin your experience @Special4988 but on the PSP versions it's definitely there. I don't see it as a bad thing though. In real-life you see awkward stuff like a team fighting to avoid relegation beating the previously unbeaten 1st placed (coff coff...Porto last year vs. Paços de Ferreira...), or a team suddenly unable to win matches as if a spell had been cast on them. Inasmuch I think it forces you to become proactive and change things up to get your team back on track.

Great analysis there @Special4988, for it's leading you to a conclusion I'm still not certain of after much thinking about it, but I suspect it's true: 360 movement greatly augmented the difficulty to create a stats-based football game and current developer knowledge/tecnhology still haven't figured that out. But I'm far from a programmer, so I wouldn't know for sure.

By the way, welcome to the Corner (and Evo-Web) @Cyrax77! Do you play any Retro-PES games these days?

Thnx. No, I don't play retro anymore. I hardly have time to play any games at all I used to play PES5 and PES3.

 

[mattmid]

I was always curious about a couple of things on these older gen PES games and have done numerous google searches to find the answers, but maybe some of you guys would know...

What does the "mentality" stat actually affect? And how would I be able to observe it in-game? Both for human controlled and AI controlled players.

Thanks for any input!

As @geeeeee and @miguelfcp have said the mentality stat really does play a part. If you go into the editing you will see the official pes statement of The higher this value the less fatigue affects the player's performance and he plays better under pressure.

As they said, go behind, losing a game and the higher mentality guys will perform better, the lower ones will crumble to an extent, make errors etc. Similarly with tiredness late in the game (more obvious on longer games of course as you get time to see it more)

When you look at what was in these older games and how much each stat really counted for something it's awful the way they've removed or simplified so much of it.

@mattmid , totally agree about Fouque, as an AMF with passing and shot stats that are very high. He hardly ever makes a big contribution in a game and almost never scores despite having a powerful shooting stat.

He was popular with the fans though due to the number of 'souvenir' balls he pumped into the crowd on a regular basis

To me, the greatest thing about the Mentality attribute is that one can't help but feel positively affected by the demonstration of bravery of a player with high Mentality...sometimes I'm losing a match and I kind of "give up" even before the match has ended; but then Stein (almost 90 mentality) starts leading by example with his fighting for every ball and he seems to play even better when the situation is adverse. One can't help but be encouraged just by watching him, and I get a renewed ambition to fight for that match. I feel like I can't let a guy like Stein down. This is crazy, but the ingame effect of the mentality stat is so obvious that affects the game itself but also affects us, in real-life. Maybe it's one of the reasons why Retro-PES is such an immersive experience.

Also the Teamwork stat is very important too. A team filled with high teamwork guys will play like a unit defensively and offensively (think Guardiola's Barcelona or Simeone's Atletico), and when you the player have the ball, a high-teamwork CPU teammate will be more intelligent when providing passing lanes for you. For me it's the PES equivalent of "football IQ". My newgen CMF Sousa has 89 TW and it's a beauty to see his off-the-ball play.

Yeah, teamwork is very important. I guess if you think about it, it's why you can see it in the pre game screen. A genius idea really and a great way to simulate the cohesion of a team particularly in the ML where they evolve and improve as a team.

 

[slamsoze]

Teamwork,Mentality,Consistency, Aggression awesome stats that became hidden or gone forever over time.Stats that seperated the men from the boys.
I remember from pes2008 and after i always had complaints about my sbs and smfs AI.They were always standing imobilized when i need them and they were making the overlap when our team needed to defend.On the other hand until pes 6 their overlaps and transitions to defence were 9/10 time synchronised.
Also with mentality after pes6, cpu players lost their sanity and awareness of the situations too. It is really weird to see in a game 5-0,the opponent scores the 5-1 and instead of just run for a fast kick off as in retro series, they celebrate like they scored the golden goal in Champions League final!!

 

[mattmid]

Funny you should just mention that about SB's. I was just playing a game on pes6 and I lost the ball on an attack but then won it back about midway in the opponents half. The right side of the pitch was wide open and instantly my RB sprinted from just inside our own half into the wide open space giving me an easy pass to him from where he could either send a long cross into the box or push on down the line. I actually thought what great AI that was to instantly react to that situation with an off the ball run.

I wonder how much the programming team has changed over the years? Maybe it's changed somewhat and the original team really knew football where as now they are programmers first and foremost? No idea, but I do wonder.

 

[Chilleverest]

I did play pes 2008 extensively for sometime but i was not observant enough as i am now, comparatively. After playing few games (psp emulator), i have come to the conclusion that pes 2008 ps2 might be the most finished product which truly captures the randomness without breaking the ''broken game'' boundary. Every little quirks and elements of randomness is believable, and everytime it adds something new to the game. Its just sublime. The AI is just superb, its a perfect blend of pes 6, we9le and has a hint of its own character. Now i feel bad going back to pes 6. I have absolutely exhausted we9le. I'll have to buy a beefy rig to run this badboy sadly, and thats not happening anytime soon

 

[slamsoze]

Funny you should just mention that about SB's. I was just playing a game on pes6 and I lost the ball on an attack but then won it back about midway in the opponents half. The right side of the pitch was wide open and instantly my RB sprinted from just inside our own half into the wide open space giving me an easy pass to him from where he could either send a long cross into the box or push on down the line. I actually thought what great AI that was to instantly react to that situation with an off the ball run.

I wonder how much the programming team has changed over the years? Maybe it's changed somewhat and the original team really knew football where as now they are programmers first and foremost? No idea, but I do wonder.

I have many thoughts on this.
My most flat theory,which i hope is not true,is that since the game is produced heavily based for MyClub/online modes/microtransactions the programming code ia one and only for both offline and online so we suffer for the pvp crowds.
So in AI's movement situation, a good off-the-ball movement from our cpu teammate is considered as good demonstration of the games stats ,by a player like you and me.For a typical competitive pvp player is a random factor and these people hate whatever seems rng and not skill based. An other command ,the second player pressure by pressing square was rendered useless this year maybe cause of the same fact.Cut the AI to the minimum level so the human players can shine.The problem is it cannot work in a game that you control 1 player and the cpu the other 10.
This rng hypothesis is similar case with the cutting and after the nerfing of the "critical hit" in LoL (since we mentioned it in the other topic) where the basic excuse was that it was very "random" for a skill-based competitive online environment.

 

[geeeeee]

I’m enjoying the love that PES2008 PS2 is getting at the moment. As i mentioned in the “The Lost Game” thread, if the PC version was the same as the PS2 version then without a doubt PES6 would have been completely over shadowed. Its a shame that the PC, PS3, and XBOX versions were poor so it got lost.

Not sure if it was mentioned (i have been out tonight and it’s late so just scanning the posts) but i think one of the biggest factors that has affected the stats in Modern PES, is the option for manual passing and manual shooting. It means that a top striker or passer can miss an easy chance because of our bad aiming not so much the player himself. If i miss an easy chance in retro PES i just blame the player (even if it is also my bad aiming) because stats, player position, best foot, ball position, defender’s position, weather condition, match condition (winning or losing) all have a factor on the outcome of the shot.

 

[Madmac79]

I have many thoughts on this.
My most flat theory,which i hope is not true,is that since the game is produced heavily based for MyClub/online modes/microtransactions the programming code ia one and only for both offline and online so we suffer for the pvp crowds.
So in AI's movement situation, a good off-the-ball movement from our cpu teammate is considered as good demonstration of the games stats ,by a player like you and me.For a typical competitive pvp player is a random factor and these people hate whatever seems rng and not skill based. An other command ,the second player pressure by pressing square was rendered useless this year maybe cause of the same fact.Cut the AI to the minimum level so the human players can shine.The problem is it cannot work in a game that you control 1 player and the cpu the other 10.
This rng hypothesis is similar case with the cutting and after the nerfing of the "critical hit" in LoL (since we mentioned it in the other topic) where the basic excuse was that it was very "random" for a skill-based competitive online environment.

Agree 100% mate.

There is not much to say. In this age, we have the games we have because of My Club, E-Sports ambitions and that kind of competitive online where people just want to win and needs a clear cut meta to exploit.

And football fundamentals ends up in the trash.

I’m enjoying the love that PES2008 PS2 is getting at the moment. As i mentioned in the “The Lost Game” thread, if the PC version was the same as the PS2 version then without a doubt PES6 would have been completely over shadowed. Its a shame that the PC, PS3, and XBOX versions were poor so it got lost.

Not sure if it was mentioned (i have been out tonight and it’s late so just scanning the posts) but i think one of the biggest factors that has affected the stats in Modern PES, is the option for manual passing and manual shooting. It means that a top striker or passer can miss an easy chance because of our bad aiming not so much the player himself. If i miss an easy chance in retro PES i just blame the player (even if it is also my bad aiming) because stats, player position, best foot, ball position, defender’s position, weather condition, match condition (winning or losing) all have a factor on the outcome of the shot.

Also 100% agree.

I'm sorry as really often this kind of argument start a clash with manual players.

But manual flat out stats, or otherwise it isn't a true manual. You can't have it both. If you want to simulate football, stats HAVE to make or break the game as it was in this chapters of the aga we all truly love, and as it sadly isn't in mostly of new installments.

A semi that takes in account stats will always be the most simulative choice to me.

 

[miguelfcp]

@geeeeee: +1000, completely agree. I understand its appeal for people who want a football game as a means to test their skills, but I the player can't be the only factor determining the success of the virtual player's actions...it oversimplifies the experience. And I'm perfectly okay with the fact that if I try a complex tiki-taka build-up from the back with the likes of Libermann or Stein, I'll lose the ball 99 out of 100 times because of their horrible passing/teamwork, just to give an example. It forces us to adapt to our players' abilities, rather than force every single one of our 11 players on the pitch to adapt to how good we are at a particular PES game. The first option works better for a simulation-oriented experience.

--
Shimizu is on his way to become the best player in the history of football on my save. Bear in mind he's only in his early 20s still...

Spoiler: Shimizu S6

By far the best player of the league, I've checked. Also check out how rich I am in PES Points...can it be converted in bitcoin?

On the subject of great little things you notice on retro-PES games that were so far ahead of its time - and of our time too, because a lot of those things really did disappear over the years -, take a look at this keeper's behaviour...
Even before my striker got rid of Celtic's defenders, the keeper was already running towards him to close the angle for a possible Gutierrez's shot. By the time I finished the R1 speed burst and got control of the ball, I had no angle for a shot, so I waited quite a while to see if the keeper made a mistake like giving me a clear angle/rushing towards me/diving. Instead he held his composure, waited for me to act and then after I chose a side to run into he waited to see where the shot was going to go and made the save. Any goalkeeper coach would proudly show this clip to teach a young keeper what to do in that situation.
Oh and the keeper is far from being a top-class one, average at best stats-wise.

 

[Special4988]

@miguelfcp Wow Shimizu is a beast! What are his wages?? Even though it looks like you are sitting on a gold mine of points so I am sure you have no problem paying his wages.

Great video, I would almost say that CPU keeper was reading your button inputs Something I noticed in the video was the 2 Celtic defenders just stopped, rather than chase you down and try to put your shot off. Almost like they were trying to play an offside trap, but obviously that wasn't applicable there. I notice this sometimes in my PES games, at times it has cost the defending team easy goals, and other times it is harmless. It's not a game breaker by any means but just rather interesting.

@geeeeee Yep, you nailed it with the "manual" options. I am sure a portion of the online community would want to see stats affecting gameplay reduced even more. I hate to be so pessimistic, but the future of gaming looks bleak in my eyes. This online only DRM, games that are released half finished and is completed through patches, and digital only games that would be hard to play years down the road. Then I remind myself that I would be perfectly fine playing old school PES games for years to come.

 

[Special4988]

So I was doing a 2018 Fifa World Cup through Exhibition matches but I am afraid I have already lost interest. So with the upcoming EPL starting soon I started a Master League playing with Tottenham.

PES 2014 PSP with newest OF
Playing as fixed player (Son Heung-min)
Top Player 15 minutes

Game 1 Vs Leicester City - Harry Kane started the year off well with 2 clinical finishers and the Spurs easily brushed aside the Fox's with a 2-0 win. The first 5 minutes were a bit scary, as Gray hit the post off a deflected volley. But the Spurs took control of the game after that.

Spurs 2-0 Leicester City

Game 2 Vs Chelsea - Son got his first goal of the year with a blasted shot just outside of the box. Courtois was at full extension but still unable to even get a finger on it. Chelsea came roaring back in the 2nd half with Morata smashing a header down from a nice cross from Hazard. Hazard was a ball of fire the whole game.

Spurs 1-1 Chelsea

Game 3 Vs Arsenal - This game doesn't even deserve a summary. Scoreless draw.

Spurs 0-0 Arsenal

Game 4 vs Man United - Well our tough schedule continues with another top of the league team. Harry Kane was struggling to get going again after he started the season so well. The Spurs were pinning in Man United and came close to score multiple times. It was finally a pass to our defender Alderweireld, who made one move to open up space and blasted a shot well outside of the box that de Gea had no chance at saving. I wished I was recording this match as the goal was a beauty. Man U comes back fighting early in the 2nd half and it is Pogba who unleashes a screamer just inside the box that goes upper 90 and ties the game at 1. (another goal I should have at least saved). Kane must have a pretty good mentality rating as he seemed to step up after the Pogba goal. His efforts were rewarded with a nice cross from Alli and finished it no problem with a well placed header. Spurs delight the home fans with a 2-1 victory against tough competition.

Spurs 2-1 Man United

Spurs sitting 3rd in the table currently unbeaten with 8 points.

 

[mattmid]

I’m enjoying the love that PES2008 PS2 is getting at the moment. As i mentioned in the “The Lost Game” thread, if the PC version was the same as the PS2 version then without a doubt PES6 would have been completely over shadowed. Its a shame that the PC, PS3, and XBOX versions were poor so it got lost.

Not sure if it was mentioned (i have been out tonight and it’s late so just scanning the posts) but i think one of the biggest factors that has affected the stats in Modern PES, is the option for manual passing and manual shooting. It means that a top striker or passer can miss an easy chance because of our bad aiming not so much the player himself. If i miss an easy chance in retro PES i just blame the player (even if it is also my bad aiming) because stats, player position, best foot, ball position, defender’s position, weather condition, match condition (winning or losing) all have a factor on the outcome of the shot.

So true. I will eventually get around to playing pes2008 on the ps emulator. This is another Konami quirk isn't it. How they made the versions sometime so different on each machine. PES2008 on the pc was one of the biggest disappointments in gaming for me after going on from PES6 and yet on the PS2 it would seem to be right up there with the best versions. How do they manage to mess that up so much?

I think you're right with the manual, you might just as well play with 11 players with exactly the same stats if it's all down to your use of the controller. Take the diving header OG I posted the other night. I loved that my player did that, it's realistic, it happens, it's football.

The thing is I can only imagine how complex it must be to program the AI for a football game and with the online 1v1 and myteam and so on it's an easy opt out I guess to skimp on the AI and use more 'scripting'

On the subject of great little things you notice on retro-PES games that were so far ahead of its time - and of our time too, because a lot of those things really did disappear over the years -, take a look at this keeper's behaviour...
Even before my striker got rid of Celtic's defenders, the keeper was already running towards him to close the angle for a possible Gutierrez's shot. By the time I finished the R1 speed burst and got control of the ball, I had no angle for a shot, so I waited quite a while to see if the keeper made a mistake like giving me a clear angle/rushing towards me/diving. Instead he held his composure, waited for me to act and then after I chose a side to run into he waited to see where the shot was going to go and made the save. Any goalkeeper coach would proudly show this clip to teach a young keeper what to do in that situation.
Oh and the keeper is far from being a top-class one, average at best stats-wise.

Excellent keeping! Another case of an excellent bit of AI isn't it.