The Retro-PES Corner

miguelfcp said:
@WhoAteMeDinner: Sometimes they do evolve more than that. Seen my newgen CB Jackson, 21 years-old? He's evolved almost 15 levels in each of his attributes in just 3 seasons or so, and keeps gaining a lot of EXP after each match. It depends on the player though, Fredriksson has evolved only two levels in two seasons.
Also remember that in PES6 you can apply different training regimes for each player: if you picked a 17-year-old regen Minanda, for example, you could train him from the start to become a faster player, or a better shooter or header just by focusing mostly or solely on speed/shooting/aerial ability.
Another thing: winning matches influences the EXP points your players get after each match. This, combined with the training regimes, makes the evolution of a player unpredictable...so even if you get a "familiar face" for your team, you'll never quite know how good he'll be in a few years time.

As for the russian bots, we should be welcoming them too. We have to maintain the cool reputation of the Corner, which is probably the most relaxed thread on the internet. So my friends, here's a gift for you.

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From The Corner With Love,
the Retro-PES crew
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@miguelfcp , thanks mate, no idea if there is a "training regime" screen in the PES 6 on Playstation 2 version, all the training and fatigue stuff seems automated to me, especially the absurd fatigue regulation screen. My default squad all had red super fit arrows after twenty five games.
How is that plausible or in any way realistic ? :SHAKE::SHAKE::SHAKE:a

Oh and fifteen of our Russian bot friends online now, your warm welcome worked. :APPLAUD:
 
mattmid said:
@miguelfcp I see he has on his usual patented Teflon gloves :D
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@mattmid , honest to god, the day Ivarov holds onto a shot, I will fall off the sofa and drop dead. Is he allergic to the ball or something ? (He gets a game a season in PES 3 and PES 6 from me, only when the main man Kelsen is almost falling over with fatigue do I risk the shot puncher/volley ball player/.
:NONO::NONO::NONO:
 
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Lobbedball said:
I dont get what s the difference btw pes 2008 on ps2 and any other pes on ps2? They are basically all the same bar the silly goalkeepers in some games where they can t do anything about long shots
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For me personally, PES5 was the best. I never liked PES6 because i found it too arcadey. But after about 10 years of playing PES5 the AI attack is not challenging anymore even with stat changes (although the ML challenges that the guys have set out in this thread would have kept it going longer).

Anyways having rediscovered PES2008 the PS2 version i have found the AI attack is far better and the defence is still hard to break down. It has fouls too, although i would prefer PES5 amount of free kicks.

Anything later than PES2008 on the PS2 the AI is just one dimensional and there are hardly any fouls.
 
Away to Koln.


The team arrived at Koln to find 'that' pitch. https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/the-retro-pes-corner.78697/page-57#post-3288220 Koln hadn't lost at home since laying it, or should that be ploughing it. The players were given motion sickness tablets before taking the field.

Koln kicked off apparently oblivious to the mesmerising pitch and took an early lead after the PES Utd keeper, Como, presumably blinded by the pitch, let the ball underneath him from a fairly straightforward shot. Then as half time approached PES Utd stole the ball in midfield and quickly pushed forward. Minanda found some space in behind the full back who had advanced upfield in Koln's attack. Romaldinho fed him the ball and he surged (as best he can currently surge at 58 speed) into the empty space as the full back fought to get back. With Agata in the middle the CB had to stay with him leaving room for the cross. Minanda met it sweetly on the run with his left foot, the ball arrowing towards Agata. He stooped in front of the CB and directed a lovely header across the keeper and in at the far post! Chalk up a first assist for Minanda Jnr.

Koln started the second half on the attack and the pitch was clearly getting to the PES Utd players who were looking groggy and bleary eyed by this time. Minanda was hugging the touchline, not because he had been told to stretch the pitch but so as he could lean over it and throw up if necessary. Finally on 75 minutes and looking very green around the gils he was substituted. He sat on the bench with his eyes closed opening them only when he heard a cheer to find the ball in the back of the PES net. Koln had grabbed a late winner.

Koln 2-1 PES Utd

Minanda received a 6.0. 2 Shots, 1 on Target. 1 assists 13 passes with 8 complete from 25 touches.



Next came Brugge at home.

A strong Brugge team with Balaban up front were a very difficult proposition for a PES Utd team who are aging in almost every department with many 30+ players in the best starting 11. Uncle Jose will be addressing this in the coming transfer windows, funds permitting.

PES Utd caused an early shock to Brugge by scoring the opening goal. This unfortunately woke up them up though and they had a lot of pressure for the rest of the half, equalising on 30 minutes and looking like going ahead with most attacks. Minanda even found himself in his own penalty area on more than one occasion. He was getting a lot of touches of the ball but no room to do much with it other than laying it off as the full back had way too much pace for him. He managed to draw a couple of free kicks but too far out for Romaldinho to try a strike from.

Second half was much the same as Brugge pushed forward looking for a winner, which they eventually found midway through the half as had seemed inevitable. PES Utd huffed and puffed but didn't cause too many problems for the Brugge backline and the visitors saw the game out in relative comfort.


PES Utd 1-2 Brugge

Minanda: 5.5 Rating. 4 shots, 1 on target. 73% pass completion. 50 touches.



Next up was the First Round, first leg of the D2 Cup. A cup that Minanda Sr very often was rested for but never recorded a victory in the games that he did play in.

PES Utd were drawn against Koln but thankfully the first leg was at home (note to self - change Koln's stadium in the editor before the second leg!)

Whether it was because it was an evening game or just a case of Minanda beginning to get to grips with the professional game was not clear but although he didn't see too much of the ball, as indeed his whole side didn't, when he did get it there were murmurs in the crowd that he showed signs of being a chip off the old block. Some of the women in the crowd even mentioned his hair was showing signs of being of a level approaching his father's, but these were shouted down by Minanda Sr, who with a twirl of his head caused several of them to faint.

As for Minanda Jr his passes were incisive all night, setting up two chances for Agate, the second of which he took for what turned out to be the winning goal. A clean sheet and a goal lead to take into the second leg. In one game Minanda Jr had won more cup matches than his father.

PES Utd 1-0 Koln (Minanda 1 assist)

Minanda completed 90% of his 20 passes, together with the assist and despite just 28 touches in the game earned a rating of 7.0 that would have seen him man of the match but for the impressive keeping from Rodriguez in goal for PES who kept Koln at bay with several fine saves.


Wanting to keep the pressure away from the young Minanda, Uncle Jose knocked back questions in the press conference afterwards, telling them to let the kid learn his trade and progress in his own time.
 
@Lobbedball: Gameplay-wise, the biggest difference to me is the fact that the ball is much less glued to the feet of the player when running at full speed. This might seem unimportant, but makes a huge difference because unlike any PES from 2009-2014 on old-gen (PSP/PS2), on PES08 you just can't sprint all the time with the ball without being punished for it, which is so much more realistic. It forces you to work the ball around instead of playing "hero-ball" (1 man beats all) all the time; but after PES2009 even less-skilled players have much better ball control at full speed. So on 08 you have to use R1 in small bursts, and be clever when to use it because it's high-risk/high-reward; on 09-14 it's low-risk/even higher-reward.
And borrowing an argument I used in another thread, if you have to slow down the pace of your offense by working the ball around without spawning the R1 all the time, there are more opportunities for a foul to happen because the slower pace brings in more physical challenges between players. Hence why PES2008 usually has more fouls than later games.
I don't agree so much with @geeeeee when he says that the AI is one-dimensional in 2009-2014, I haven't noticed any difference on that regard, but I agree with the rest of his take.

@WhoAteMeDinner: Yeah, I never use the condition regulation thingy either. As for the training, it's an option that appears as "pre-season training", available only in pre-season naturally. Then you can assign different training regimes for each player, which affects how many EXP points one gets in each stat. Useful for shaping your players into what you think they should be.
 
@mattmid: Uncle Jose's salvation for an aging team, Minanda is the future of the club! I don't know whether they played for PES or WE United, but I remember guys like Heycory and Sutto who were really (too) old.
I get motion sickeness just thinking about Cuito Cuanavale's pitch! I honestly don't recall whether PES08 has it, at least fortunately I haven't played there in 6 seasons - though I played for the first time in my save in Porto Folio for the WEFA Masters Cup final.
 
@miguelfcp I had to keep blinking to re focus! I haven't played on that pitch in a long time either, as soon as I saw it I thought, oh no!

I am really loving this playing as one player, it also makes you more aware on just how good the computer AI can be at times. Trying to find space can be a real challenge sometimes as the computer reacts and covers so well to any moves you make.

I did play BAL on PES2008 on the PC but the game just wasn't good unfortunately much as I tried to persist with it because I was enjoying BAL (if I remember right I started with ADO Den Haag and got to about season 3). What's also helping is the nice wide camera I have on this (playing on we9le) so I can see my player most of the time with just the odd times when I have to keep an eye on the radar. But it's a real blast playing as a young Minanda :) I'm forgetting at times that I need to control the changes. In the second game after about 30 minutes Agata got a knock and had the yellow cross when he got stretchered off then came back on. After around 60 minutes i thought, they haven't taken him off yet, before the penny dropped! :LOL:
 
mattmid said:
@miguelfcp I had to keep blinking to re focus! I haven't played on that pitch in a long time either, as soon as I saw it I thought, oh no!

I am really loving this playing as one player, it also makes you more aware on just how good the computer AI can be at times. Trying to find space can be a real challenge sometimes as the computer reacts and covers so well to any moves you make.

I did play BAL on PES2008 on the PC but the game just wasn't good unfortunately much as I tried to persist with it because I was enjoying BAL (if I remember right I started with ADO Den Haag and got to about season 3). What's also helping is the nice wide camera I have on this (playing on we9le) so I can see my player most of the time with just the odd times when I have to keep an eye on the radar. But it's a real blast playing as a young Minanda :) I'm forgetting at times that I need to control the changes. In the second game after about 30 minutes Agata got a knock and had the yellow cross when he got stretchered off then came back on. After around 60 minutes i thought, they haven't taken him off yet, before the penny dropped! :LOL:
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I have only played with "fixed player" for the last 5 years or so and it really adds to the immersion. The best thing is you don't have to worry about finding the right AI difficulty because controlling 1 player can only do so much to impact a game and balance. It's not for everyone though, the AI flaws will really be highlighted because you will be more observant of your teammate AI mistakes. But if you can get over those AI annoyances, there is something satisfying about every play that you make. A key tackle, a beautiful cross, or missing a sitter ;)
 
Fifa World Cup 2018

PES 2014 PSP with updated OF

Group A

Saudi Arabia 3 points
Eygpt 3 points
Russia 0 points
Uruguay 0 points

Saudi Arabia 2-0 Russia
Eygpt 2-0 Uruguay

Group B
Spain 3 Points
Morocco 3 point
Iran 0 points
Portugal 0 points

Spain 3-0 Portugal (ouch, no Ronaldo magic this game)
Morocco 1-0 Iran

Group C
France 1 point
Australia 1 point
Peru TBD
Denmark TBD

France 0-0 Australia
Peru-Denmark Delayed due to hooliganism. Will be made up at a later date.

Group D
Argentina 3 points
Iceland 0 points
Croatia TBD
Nigeria TBD

Argentina 2-0 Iceland

The Iceland/Argentina game is the one I want to focus on for a bit. I usually just let the CPU play their matches while I do random other things. But I wanted to watch this match to see how the vastly different players and tactics from each other would play out. Well PES again proves that player attributes actually matter... Argentina's technical ability on the ball was a pretty thing to watch. Augero ended scoring both goals, (one a beautiful shot outside the box) but it was more the buildup that impressed me. Messi was killing his marker with speed and dribbling. Javier Mascherano was controlling the midfield with outlet passes and key tackles. And of course Sergio was finishing the job.

But Iceland was also interesting to watch. They won just about every contested header, and their defense was actually quite stout, but the skill deficit was too much for them. Interestingly Iceland only managed 1 shot on target in the game.
 
@miguelfcp regarding the CPU attack in 2009 onwards. What i noticed is that they dribble so much more, even poor players and i find they are hard to dispossess. Even a sliding tackle (even to try to foul them) and they get back up and get the ball and run with it. It could be that because in 2008 you can stop the dribbling then the adaptive AI kicks in and they attack differently. But in later ones because the CPU is so effective against me by dribbling then it does not need to adapt.

Hope that makes sense. ;)

A little end of July update regarding my PES2008 option file...

So far players edited... 2637
Club Teams edited... 69
National Teams edited... 21

Club Teams remaining... 75
National Teams remaining... 37

Boy this is taking forever. But i am enjoying it. Once the 32 National Teams are completed then i will start a World Cup and post reports.

Hopefully i will get there in the end. :)
 
@geeeeee: That's the double-edged sword I found out when comparing PES08 with 09-14: On one hand, 08's dribbling system is more realistic, but on 09-14 it's harder to defend against skilled dribblers, which quickly becomes a fun challenge. In the end, either game provides an enjoyable depiction of football, even if 09-14 often becomes a more arcady experience. On the PSP though, I remember a lot of matches on 09-14 which provided the most gritty midfield battles (sometimes it looked like PES5).

Huge task of yours, editing the whole OF. A word of encouragment for you, I know how overwhelming the process can be at times. The Retro-PES Corner stands by you!
Are you using the player stats from the Player Stats Database?
 
ML United - Generations Mode - Season 6 :: PES2008 PS2

Last match of the season was against Besiktas, away from home. A perfect opportunity for both Valeny and Ximelez to play their last minutes of their careers, as both were retiring after the end of the match. Ximelez wore the captain's armband in the 1st half, passing it to Valeny on the 2nd.
The result of the match was unimportant, as both ML United and Besiktas weren't fighting for anything at all at this point...losing 2-1 was meaningless compared to what was about to happen a few minutes before the end of the match...

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Ximelez subbed off a last time for Espimas...isn't that poetic. For the younger Retro-PESsers out there, Ximelez and Espimas were the wings of the ML Defaults for a decade. If you played one, you had to play the other too; if you didn't, even if your team played nicely, you felt that there was something missing. Now one retires and the other is 39, close to end as well.
Valeny, the only default who never disappoints. I've never seen a bad performance of his in my lifetime of playing PES, and obviously he had to put out a solid exhibition on his farewell. You'll be missed!

As players, fans and staff were sobbing, the unexpected happened and suddenly no one could help but smile.

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The man got to play 10 minutes of the match - his first minutes in 6 seasons -, and kept a clean sheet, though he didn't have to make any save. His first and only action in this match had to be legendary, in typical Zamenhof's fashion...
This my friends, is the No-Look-Goal-Kick, top that Ronaldinho! Thanks Zamenhof for your contribution to football, I'm going to renew your contract for one more season (no, seriously, he asked for the contract renewal) and let you return to your well-deserved-permanent-vacation, because you can't spell "nihilism" without "Zamenhof"...what, you can? Shut up already or I'll send Stein after you.

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Both Bayern and ML United will qualify to the group stage of the WEFA Championships, while Benfica, Porto, Fenerbahçe and Galatasaray will have to participate in the preliminary group stage as we did last season. I'm glad we escaped that, because it means we won't have the loaded calendar we had this season.
Shame that Sporting won't be in the WEFA, they have Shimizu who is a beast of a player (a statsheet filled with +95 attributes).

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It was a Klose one, but Gutierrez got the award over Kezman.

--
Since Valeny and Ximelez retired, we're allowed to bring in two newgens for Season 7.
 
Pre-Season - Season 7

The hardest part of this challenge is to actually pick the newgens you're "hiring" for ML United. The decision you make now will have an influence for decades of save, as buying and selling is not allowed in this challenge - it's only possible to acquire newgens when a player of ours retires. You never know when one will retire though; Ximelez is 36 and has quit his career while Iouga and Zamenhof will soon be 40 and still under contract...this means that it's never possible to know exactly when your next opportunity of getting a newgen will come.

I was keen on getting a LWB to replace Ruskin and a AMF to replace Fouque; the first is not really a great player at all besides his super-stamina and the latter is beginning his decline. However, there wasn't any AMF or WB newgen on this batch of newcomers. There were a couple of great CBs, a fantastic CMF called Machado, and a few interesting strikers. The CBs and the CMF would definitely replace guys like Baumann, Jaric and Van den Berg rightaway, that's how good they were.
But then it hit me: I won't be able to replace Van den Berg. The guy has a really strange statsheet, typically he wouldn't be half the player he shows on pitch, but he plays so well! He was once again our analytics' MVP with a 6.7 average rating...I think on 6 seasons he never let go of that award! Also, replacing Jaric? I can't. I love this guys, I can't replace them.

So instead of getting the best newcomers of the batch, I changed my approach: we'll acquire players to fill in a specific role, therefore we'd get a type of player we still don't have in our roster, and every player of our squad will be valuable in some way.

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I got Sousa for many reasons: first, he's a fellow portuguese guy, and after Minanda's retirement I missed having someone with whom I could speak portuguese with. Second, I prefer my players to have high mental stats and he has 83 mentality and 89 teamwork. However, the main reason is the fact that I can train him to become a multi-position kind of player in the future, which his high teamwork will certainly help to accomplish.
Gotta love a player with high football IQ, counting on him not to be a starting-11 player but our "12th player", ready to play anywhere he's needed.

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The other is Matic, a 203cm TANK to wreck defenses with his strength alone. Our second newgen striker acquisition in a row, after Park Jyun Hi last year. Hamsun spent a lot of time playing as AMF last season - and impressed me so much he might be starting over Fouque -, Ordaz seems to be declining...a new striker wasn't a need, but won't hurt to be prepared for the future. Also, I couldn't pass on the opportunity to get such a unique player, which will fill the role of being the Post Player of all Post Players. I will train him to develop his strength and aerial ability for him to become the deadliest player in the air, can't wait to start spawning crosses and long balls for him - which alongside trying long shots with Fouque, must be one of the most stress-relieving things you can do on Retro-PES.

With these two acquisitions, we get to keep playing our beloved defaults while they're still in their prime whilst adding types of players we didn't have until now.
 
It's quite amazing how attached we can become to the players as we see them grow and essentially become part of the core team. Or players that just don't seem to gel with the team and they become "shunned". Oddly enough it reminds me of the Pokemon series a bit. Finding Pokemon that "fits" with your fighting style.

Curious to see how Sousa and Matic develop through the years. Will Matic start popping in 20+ goals a year???
 
@miguelfcp thinking about it now, my main gripe with anything after 2008 was the lack of fouls. I remember trying all different stat changes for example reducing Balance by about 30 for each player so that maybe they would fall over more and get a free kick. They were definitely falling more but no fouls awarded.

Thanks for the encouragment regarding the option file. Yes i use PSD stats but there are some not there. For them i will use sofifa for positions etc... but not the stats. Instead i overwrite over someone that plays in the same position and minus 5 or more for each stat, i suppose randomly created. Also, i have a list of each birth date so i can update them on their birhday. For example today i will be updating the stats of all the players that i have already created that were born on 1st August. Once i have done that i will carry on with editing the National teams.

I like your write ups. Nice picture of Ximelez and Espimas. I noticed that Sporting scored the same amount of goals as you but conceeded far too many. Its good that every team is different. Bayern always seem to do well in previous PES from what i can remember.
 
Special4988 said:
It's quite amazing how attached we can become to the players as we see them grow and essentially become part of the core team. Or players that just don't seem to gel with the team and they become "shunned". Oddly enough it reminds me of the Pokemon series a bit. Finding Pokemon that "fits" with your fighting style.

Curious to see how Sousa and Matic develop through the years. Will Matic start popping in 20+ goals a year???
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Yeh, there has always been a kind of Japanese-themed Role Player Game element to all PES games and was even more present in the early game editions, where players did not develop. It was all about finding the right blend of real players to play alongside your favourite default players who were good enough to keep a place in the team. You could almost feel disloyal to Burchet if you signed a right winger to replace him and likewise how could look Espinas or Macco in the eye if you left them on the bench for long.

Something about the default guys of old, that was far more significant than the stats ever showed:

Class, character, spirit. :WORSHIP::WORSHIP::WORSHIP:
 
@miguelfcp A great second season in D1!

It's always sad to see some of the defaults come off that pitch for the final time, well at least most of them. I don't want to see Castolo get back on it in my ML Save!

I think, in my save at least, Fouque is the most frustrating player in the squad. His stats suggest so much, you look at them and think, he should be better in AM than Minanda, but no, not even close. I think I've had one good season out of him, the other seasons he has a great game here and there but mostly frustrating.

It's fascinating how players develop and get used differently by us all. Hamsun has developed into a beast of a striker for me, almost an Alan Shearer type, yet for you he has developed into a quality AM. Another great thing about the retro pes's.

Quite apart from all the other good things they have removed/dropped over the years's surely removing the ML squad was the biggest mistake of them all.

Looks like you have two really good newgen signings there, it will be interesting to see how they develop.
 
@Special4988: It's an interesting comparison there, maybe that's why I always got so immersed in Pokemon games since the Game Boy era. On every save I had to have a Geodude in my team, which in PES-talk translates to having a Stein on your midfield: a defensive maniac to counterbalance the offensive power of the rest of the squad. And even if you come upon a better Pokemon/player, you won't be able to replace them out of loyalty for what they've done for you in your save.
Both Sousa and Matic are showing signs that they'll develop a lot in the near future, gaining a lot of EXP after training and pre-season matches. Though one expects a 17-yo to develop quite fast, my experience with guys like Park Jyun Hi and Fredriksson is that such early, intense development is not always a given...
The thing with Matic is that he is a specialist, like Park Jyun Hi, and a guy like Gutierrez fits my playing style better: he's more of a complete striker, able to adapt better to what each moment of the match demands of him. Will the fact that Matic is a one-trick-pony hurt his chances on our team?

@geeeeee: That's true. On PES2008 you still see those typical PES5-like fouls: when you run behind a player at full-speed and the game recognizes he "pushes" the other, or uses his hands too much to stop him. In my experience it happens a lot less than on PES5 but it still does. Also, depending on the referee, a lightweight low-balance player like Ruskin gets a lot of fouls awarded to him simply by falling whenever he gets direct contact with another running player. That doesn't seem to happen on 09-14.

Interesting system of yours, it's a good way to keep the process of editing fresh and appealing. I haven't done much editing recently but I'll remember that idea once I get back on that horse.
Sporting doesn't really have a great team at all, frankly compared to any other team who qualified for the WEFA they are much weaker; however Shimizu carries that team single-handedly. You can really tell he's the undisputed star when you play Sporting, so much individuality. Stats-wise, must be the best player of the league right now.

@mattmid: Fouque spends the majority of matches unnoticed, but once in a while he appears with a touch of mastery, be it a killer assist or a powerful long ranger...last season, he appeared mostly to save our asses on tight games, he's developed that interesting "timing" over the last few seasons.
Indeed. Sometimes when I'm playing Hamsun I remember your posts, showing his prolific goal-scoring records, and I think to myself: why can't I get this guy to score goals? He still does once in a while, but far far away from Gutierrez and Ordaz's records. Then this season I began playing him at AMF and he's more Minanda-like than Fouque, adapting very well to the role of a playmaker, with the bonus of being a powerful post player who holds off the opponents' midfield pressure, and also appears in the box for a header which Fouque can't do. He might have invented a new position: Midfield Target Man?
 
@miguelfcp i also like the ones when the CPU tries to hack you from behind when you riggle away from them. It doesnt happen all the time so makes it fun when it does.

Yes Refs make a big difference. I think i mentioned before but playing against my brother in Exhibition mode and he got two straight red cards in 5 mins for what should have both been a yellow at most. After the second foul we saw the ref going over and we was both saying “he isnt is he?” Then he showed the second red. We were both shocked.

Also i am sure the players retaliate at times to different situations.

Another thing which is better in 2008. That loose high ball is always caught by the GK in PES5 regardless of challenges against the GK. But in 2008 the GKs sometimes fumble or punch it.

My system for editing works for me. I used to think what age do i make a player? From the start of the season or start of the year? And then globally increase all by one year at the start of the season or year?

But now i increase it on their birthday.

Also i make a note of when i last updated the player so when i check PSD they have a ‘last updated’ date. So i know whether i need to check each stat or just adjust the age.
 
@geeeeee: I thought I was mad for thinking that! At times, when I hype up my aggressiveness with more reckless fouling, I see the CPU "losing his temper" with sliding tackles as a response to my behaviour.
I don't know if the legendary Kazuki Ito is in PES08, but I don't think he is, is he?
One thing that I still haven't mastered about Retro-PES editing is applying an ideal development pattern for a younger player (early peak/standard/late peak, etc.). I usually apply "standard" because one can't know whether a 18-year old will be a early or late peak...
Regarding PSD, it's a fantastic tool for editing - amazing work they do over there - but I've had this opinion for years: they tend to overrate players a lot, particularly youngsters who inevitably all turn into world superstars with ease. In a game like PES2008 I bet their values are tolerable because the game is more sim-oriented, but in PES6 for example I've noticed those statsheets tend to provide an even more arcady experience.
What I did back then was something like this: if I edited PES6, I'd underrate players; on PES5, I'd overrate.
 
@miguelfcp awesome narrative. That's exactly what I love about long MLs.. they become a deep story, a virtual dynasty.
Look at Matic. A couple of seasons or less, and opponents will just bounce away from him. I'll be sad, anyway, if you'll replace my main man Fouque :(.

@mattmid I think Hamsun is great. Good feet, good balance, tactical intelligence.. I used to not love him cause I rarely grew fond with players that replace the very first originals, but I've changed my mind lately. In my Pes 5 latest ML challenge I lined up both him and his DNA giver Njorgo (sometimes between all this regens and clone players, I see a fantheory about Pes being in the same universe of Metal Gear Solid easily taking form.. ehehe) and alternate them between FW and AM role.. he can do both roles very well.

By the way, I've finally found what it seems like a decent setting for Ps2 emu and Pes 2008. It doesn't look good at all, but it's definitely playable and smooth enough and that's what it counts. After all the talk and the praise about this game, I think that when I'll be feel like taking a pause with the Reds guys in Pes 2010 I'll finally explore this game as it deserves. After reading you guys and especially @geeeeee , I'm particularly curious about IA behaviour, and the fact that dribbling isn't that easy.. what always put me off about Ps2 chapters after Pes 5, was that with a single fast guy it was quite easy to walk all the field, and it doesn't seem to be the case in this game.
 
@miguelfcp another thing i noticed in 2008 is if you dont press the CPU too much they play slower, passing it back and forth. But if you press too much sometimes they play faster. Maybe it is just me and my imagination.

Not sure about Kazuki, i will check the next time i am editing. Wont be till tomorrow now though as i have used my ‘editing credit time’ today. I give myself about 90 mins a day depending how busy i am. I have to keep a balance between this and real life. ;)

Regarding ‘player growth’ Early/Lasting is always the best one. So i tend to give that to the Messi’s, Ronaldo’s etc... It is hard to guess how players will progress in the future. Sometimes i take a chance, for example Mbappe i have given Early/Lasting. Also when i edit over an old player i just keep their ‘player growth’ the same. So that will make things more random and exciting once i start my proper ML.

@Madmac79 i hope you enjoy 2008 because i know i have been bigging it up a bit. Dribbling is harder but with better players you can feel the difference. Playing as Messi you feel you can take on a couple of players but at the same time it is not too easy. Another thing that is better is that it is harder to exploit the wings. In PES5 i found it too easy but in 2008 the CB tends to cover if the SB is out of position.

Please @miguelfcp @Madmac79 and @mattmid can you change your names as i am always double checking who i am replying to as i keep getting you mixed up :P
 
@Madmac79: Thanks man, appreciated. I was very divided between just getting any newgen, presumably the best ones, and picking the ones who wouldn't necessarily take the defaults spot on the starting-11 and also would provide more interesting "storylines", so to speak. For example, I've seen way better newgen keepers over the years but ended up picking Fredriksson because of his one-of-a-kind profile, a GK who's also a freekick/penalty kick taker. Getting a "quirky" player is more fun to me now than just getting the best one.
I won't get another midfielder long-range specialist in the future, this will make Fouque still useful until his retirement - even if he ends up not playing as much as he plays currently. So instead of having 28 players who can pretty much do anything on the pitch, I'll have 28 individuals who'll shine in particular areas; then it'll become even more challenging for me as "manager" to find that perfect balance on the pitch.

@geeeeee: Definitely, I see that too and not only on 08, on the 09-14 PSP versions it happens quite a lot as well. If instead of pressing relentlessly you commit to closing passing lanes (for example, not pressing the CPU's CB who currently has the ball), they'll work the ball around more to find a breach in your structure. If you commit to bothering their creation process by pressing a lot more, they'll try to take advantage of the space you just left open.
Though it depends on who you're facing...I know beforehand that I will get only about 40% ball possession against certain teams, maybe because of their formation/attacking arrows/players combination which always differs from the next team. Against Benfica, for example, I know that I'll have to rely mostly on counterattacks because they always neutralize my organized attacks - which is curious, because they don't have particularly talented defenders.

I see. That's one of the perks of editing Retro-PES: you can influence not only each player's stats but their growth in a ML enviornment, according to one's vision and preference.

Another thing I've noticed lately: player form. I don't mean their condition arrow or their fatigue; I mean actually noticing that a player is not and has not been lately on his best days even with low/non-existent fatigue and a good condition arrow. For example my Gutierrez started the season in a bombastic way, blazing through defenses and scoring a lot of goals. Then, after the winter break (so no fatigue at all), he felt more sluggish to control; suddenly his dribbling wasn't quick or precise, his shooting less accurate...overall, he was still valuable but not the supreme player he had been. A few matches afterwards, suddenly he's "back" to his old self. Over 6 seasons I've seen this on the majority of my players, regardless of their stats: I've even been "forced" to give 39-year-old Iouga a few minutes on a series of matches because the guy was playing better than Dodo, who has a much better statsheet - and again, nothing to do with their condition arrows or fatigue.
Am I crazy?
 
@geeeeee The 'M' club have put it to the vote and would like to apologise for deciding to keep the names they have :)

I've often though about dropping acceleration down to virtually nothing, thinking being that it might make pressing more difficult as you won't be able to instantly 'jump' at them from 10 yards away and it would give the ai a bit more time, plus the ai rarely sprints so it won't make a huge difference to them either.
 
@miguelfcp No, I don't think you are crazy, I'm also convinced the players go through phases in ML, little spells when they are hot and little spells when they might as well be Castolo. Hamsun seems to score his goals in spurts. I guess the consistency rating is at play there. I do wish the arrows weren't so extreme because it can be frustrating when the ai leaves out it's three best players because they have down arrows.
 
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