The Retro-PES Corner

[millossobek]

Found a good a bad thing about my editing stuffs. As i already said : i'm working on PES 5 and PES 2008 (probably JL2008 later but it will be quick to do).
PES 5 V1 should be ended "soon". PES 2008 was done at 85% but i falled in the Others League C players cost trap... I didn't know.

Good news : i found a way to have real values for both Korea and Japan NT.
It's quite simple with DKZ : i exchange the players (sometimes 2 players, as they got ALL 350 points) with the ones from Classics teams. There's +- 45 players so there's no problem : i exchange then i made a base copy "re-exchange" if the player is duplicated (Nakamura1 for Batistuta, Nakamura2 for Maradona... Then i got more than enough players to restore the Classics)

Note: on PES 5 Classics Nations doesn't appears in ML. And giving Free nationality to JAP/KOR isn't enough : it gives +- half of their real values (615 vs 1150 Park-Ji-Sung if i remember : so it's not a solution)

Now, i got an issue and i need to do a trick for PES 2008... It's not ultra necessery, but i want a clean database. So i will ask a question to our expert @marqisspes6 , as no editor i tried except DKZ can do that... But it's kinda hard to add PES 2008 on DKZ, i tried several times.
Well the question is : is that possible to or

-Litterally erase a player i put on "Free agent" from the game with i don't know what editor
-And my first idea was to exchange (not copy) the "Others league C" players with Unlockables players and lock them so they don't appears i ML (i tried with PES 5 editor : it blocks me to transfers, and with DKZ : both exchanged players appears on Free Agents and one player "Not Registered" appears instead in Unlockable)...
So the player wasn't transferred.

> BUT there's a last option, well more "O.F." style and it won't affect ML : is to put at least more than 150 dummies players on Free agents with "0" on every stats (just base copy a "Not Registred" with the OF Editor, and for no reason they got "0" for the modest cost of 5000 points 🤣. So it's totally safe. Just not as much pro... I see those players like trash.

But if you don't care about those fakes "Dummy-like" players on ML... I can do it instead of any trick, it's not really pro but effective at least. Personnaly i just want to play, and practically sure it won't cause issues with that cheap last solution.
What do you guys think or purpose? I got +- 320 players usable and i need, to replace the "PLAYER A001" type 288 (there's less players in US version : 18 instead of 23 so it's doable)

(Nothing hurry for the answer through, just that i tried today for no other reason than i'm editing NT for PES 5, and wanted to know if my idea was OK)

Bro, not sure if I asked you this before but.. The PES 5 and PES 2008 you're working on is the PC version or a PS2 .iso? Looking forward to seeing how it turns out!

 

[vialli82]

PS2 of course for PES 2008. The best PS2 version vs a good but correctible PC/PS360 version...
Also facebuilds are too hard to do on that version, i mean PC. It's not regular, i don't like that system too much analogic : you can't even share creations (people complained i remember lol, they changed it on PES 11)

PES 5 will be an option file base (but complete) for PC gamer + a PS2 slightly modded iso (you have kitserver an all on PC for kits, emblems, also leagues emblems like for bundes etc. so... I leave to PC modder to do the work. It's an original version : summer transfers and tons of changes/NT/stats/corrections : it took me 4 months)

PES 2008 will get full Bundes with real player price. There's an issue with Other leagues C = the price scale is VERY small. You can get a player which cost 1500 for 230 point. Some player only got 1 points lol. And to me Bundesliga is a must have, but i don't want to erase Eredivisie as a licenced league neither.

 

[vialli82]

Not completely sure if we can use dkz for pes2008 i remember that @H_G use a different software for we10 and some j league if im not wrong, probably with that will work better.
About the other ideas I'm not so sure what to answer, the ML is still a mistery to me and the best we can do about it is completely test and try to understand how it works with all of his bug 😅 but its gonna take some time i believe

I will first transform the fake players in "Not Registred", then we'll see what we can do with it. I don't see any other solution with the tools i tried, but you can try stuffs if you're curious (will ask H_G for it later, when PES 5 O.F. + ISO will be done, i still got some work. Was just thinking about it as i thought exchanging any player to "Unlockables" was doable lol, but impossible with 3 editors.
I through DKZ could done more than just a bit more than an O.F. Editor with the only option to switch Classics with other players... But it was enough to me, for PES 5. A bit less for 2008, i needed to replace Unlockables + keeping them locked, or erase at least an hundred of PLAYER B015 type player.

With the "no registred" system not a team will give a interest or brought any of those players for that i'm pretty sure lol.
They got "0" lol, not even "1" and cost 5000 fucking points haha.

No way, i already tried in the past and it worked at least on PES 6 and some PS3/PS4 version, i given "1" or "40" to every player i didn't wanted to be signed and they were like dummies in ML. Like if they didn't existed any more on the database.

 

[Cubbadem]

I know it's not really a retro pes title but can I get any thoughts on pes 2019..I recently revisited it and I was surprised at how it played

 

[marqisspes6]

I will first transform the fake players in "Not Registred", then we'll see what we can do with it. I don't see any other solution with the tools i tried, but you can try stuffs if you're curious (will ask H_G for it later, when PES 5 O.F. + ISO will be done, i still got some work. Was just thinking about it as i thought exchanging any player to "Unlockables" was doable lol, but impossible with 3 editors.
I through DKZ could done more than just a bit more than an O.F. Editor with the only option to switch Classics with other players... But it was enough to me, for PES 5. A bit less for 2008, i needed to replace Unlockables + keeping them locked, or erase at least an hundred of PLAYER B015 type player.

With the "no registred" system not a team will give a interest or brought any of those players for that i'm pretty sure lol.
They got "0" lol, not even "1" and cost 5000 fucking points haha.

No way, i already tried in the past and it worked at least on PES 6 and some PS3/PS4 version, i given "1" or "40" to every player i didn't wanted to be signed and they were like dummies in ML. Like if they didn't existed any more on the database.

@geeeeee im tagging you here too because could be of your interest, i made a small research... now i gotta ask, this issue with players happens to other leagues C and also with pes and we united? i know both of you don't know too much of hex editing, but take a look at this



i notice that every team from we united until team s (? Not sure ) has the sequence 7A 00 7A 00, usually those bytes on NT indicates which flag they use @vialli82 (this is the mod that you do to change the flags for classic teams to have another flag) but for teams this value we don't know what it does, and seems to be related to the zone/region of the team for example spain teams has 1A 00 7A 00, meaning 1A 00 = 26 in decimal what is this? if count from 0 all the teams in order it will give you that spain is the team 26, previous value is 15, which is italy, okay, now the next seems to be static 7A for all club teams, so we don't actually care, also could be something like deactivate???

okay now the next values, for example last team of other c has 93 00 = this is 147 pes 2008 has a total of 148 clubs (playable clubs) so must be something like club id, then the other value 06 79 this value seems to be only set for the teams i marked with blue while the other clubs seems to take values like 02 16 or 03 16 and some 03 57, dont know why

well i do believe that this could be related??? i dont know, if some of you wanna give it a try i can make some changes but you will need to send me your SLES file and probably create a new option file (for testing) i could be wrong and this finding could be nothing, but idk, worth the try hahaha

 

[vialli82]

Thanks mate, for the flags changing it's for PES 5, but about the players values it's all about PES 2008.

Today i got people working (at home, rebuilding my kitchen and some other stuffs) but i'll send you both of my PES 2008 and PES 5 OF probably after (need to export from my PS2)
Still don't understand anything about hexadecimal lol but one thing is sure : you can't change a player ID. If you change an ID, you will only create a new player and the other will stay on the database.

Well, i will repeat again but it's to be clear :
My goal about PES 5 is changing Classic to Angola/Trinidad/Togo etc. (will create others available good teams, Bosnia for example). That's the most important as i don't have alternative : changing the flags related to countries or i won't be able to recreate World Cup 2006.
One thing tilt me, it's that for example Classic use the same flags as Germany, Italy etc.
I hope it's just another name for the two, then i just have to replace with GGS and keep the Classic's name but with a different flag.

And for PES 2008, you already know : or i found a way to erase those player or a way to switch them with (locked!) PES-Shop players. I got an alternative / make those player base copy for not being brought in ML.

 

[marqisspes6]

Thanks mate, for the flags changing it's for PES 5, but about the players values it's all about PES 2008.

Today i got people working (at home, rebuilding my kitchen and some other stuffs) but i'll send you both of my PES 2008 and PES 5 OF probably after (need to export from my PS2)
Still don't understand anything about hexadecimal lol but one thing is sure : you can't change a player ID. If you change an ID, you will only create a new player and the other will stay on the database.

Well, i will repeat again but it's to be clear :
My goal about PES 5 is changing Classic to Angola/Trinidad/Togo etc. (will create others available good teams, Bosnia for example). That's the most important as i don't have alternative : changing the flags related to countries or i won't be able to recreate World Cup 2006.
One thing tilt me, it's that for example Classic use the same flags as Germany, Italy etc.
I hope it's just another name for the two, then i just have to replace with GGS and keep the Classic's name but with a different flag.

And for PES 2008, you already know : or i found a way to erase those player or a way to switch them with (locked!) PES-Shop players. I got an alternative / make those player base copy for not being brought in ML.

I found something else, I'm gonna send you a pm with the data

 

[BillyKong]

Can anyone extract the font files from the PC version of PES 2008?

 

[millossobek]

Hey guys, looking for a way to change PES 2010 ball sounds, probably make them louder and more noticeable. Do any of you know if there's a mod for this? Thanks in advance.

 

[vialli82]

I checked with no success : about teams callnames on PES 6 and 2008 "o-sound" and "e_sound" : normally i should found "Angola" "Togo" etc. on the pack.
And several others teams like Estonia etc.

But nothing. I've listenned practically everything lol. I found one team (Trinidad)
Well if someone got a pack with callnames, with DKZ it's easy (just have to replace the fake with the accurate one). Searched everywhere on tons of websites with no success. Perhaps i will try on PES 2009 2010 2011 etc., but i got enough atm to listen 2000 sounds a row by exported data.

If not : that's what i'm thinking to do, i can remove the name litteraly. I checked on a patch from PES 6 and it seems that when you remove the team callname, the commentator doesn't annouce any of the 2 teams and there wasn't any commentary related neither in game.

Don't want having "Angola" with Classic England as commentary lol. FTM as i didn't found any new teams callnames (0 or E_Text : same > doesn't matter)

>BUT i've checked in many others patches and they got the same issue, PC or PS2. Except one which completely changed everything but for PES 5 and only in French (worst commentary, one guy completely changed it with another commentator)... But he got all real kits on it, i can use that patch and replace some small stuffs.
The most and biggest work uncomparable with other "original season" is my database.

I think to remove completely, commentary aren't that important especially for those teams. Also if i remember well i think i found real callnames for PL like Everton, Liverpool, Middlesbrough

I just hope there won't be "Here's Nigeria agaisnt .......... (memory loss )

 

[vialli82]

I tried if it was doable to put it "no callname" with DKZ : no success. No way to erase it.

Were the f*** they placed the teams callnames in others games? I can't litterally found a single one in PES 2009 both O and E-SOUND : only players names.
And i through they were located between Players callnames but no.

If JUST somebody knows where the hell i can found those callnames to replace, i will search myself. That's all i need in fact.
No problem. For chants, it's easy i got some generic African chants for map, etc.
I can deal with fake names pronounced, but not completely different ones lol. If i can't : whatever, no patch have done it for PES 5 so... Just cut he commentary or remove "names" i suppose it's also for teams right?


Now if somoene very kind would share directly :

I'm lost seriously. Just need 3 appellations (on PES there's 3 different callnames by team, same for player)
5 teams minimum or 7 teams if possible. Or just told me were its damn located if they aren't in the SOUND stuffs. It's killing my project 😞😞
If only i could erase without having unpronounced name like i said below...

-Angola
-Ghana
-Togo
(-got Trinidad)
-Bosnia-Herzegovina

Clubs : River plate and Boca Juniors.

Extras :
-Egypt or Algeria or whatever teams NIG you found strong that time.
If i don't have it i will build for the 2 remaining Euro and World all stars as i got the callnames on it an no players will appears on ML

Many thanks in advance. Sorry if i ask to much : just sending me the locations on PES 2008 or 2009 whatever if it's on PC and it's okay

 

[millossobek]

Guys, I need the help of a PES 2010 editing expert: Do any of you know if it's possible to edit an ML League Structure AFTER starting an ML? I'm playing with a Premier League team and finished my first season, but didn't realize that D2 was not set up with 2nd division English Championship teams (I assumed they were already set up that way). When I finished my first season, 3 non-English teams got promoted to first division! I know this is a long shot but, if any of you know any way of solve this issue (I can also start a brand new ML with the exported team and with the correct English teams in D2 this time, but I'd like that to be my last resort), please let me know or send me a PM. Thanks in advance!

 

[H_G]

This is a great idea btw, a project to upgrade PES6 match engine and Artificial Intelligence systems

Hello Everyone

I have started a project to upgrade the Pro Evolution Soccer 6 match engine and Artificial Intelligence systems

I use reverse engineering techniques and a number of modules in Java, Python and C++ to control the players inside the match engine and to retrieve information from the PES6 memory space to allow my AI to make informed decisions.

Through the use of mathematical models (which I will be making available to some programmers who pm me) I have finally been able to de-obfuscate the position vectors of the ball and the players from the games memory. This is the basis of computing information about the match.

Here the new AI playing as the red team. A new programmable camera is also tested in these videos.




My testing environment.
To inspect the AI models , notably the PageRank graph progression I have programmed a visualization tool (on the right hand side) that lets me graph what the AI system sees.

View attachment 184576

Why is new AI important though?

Well the Master league and in general playing offline in general is boring , no ?
The Konami AI is weak and predictable. The game we love is fun but it could be so much better if we had real AI.

We as a community have spent 16 years focusing on the aesthetics of the game and I hate to say it but these (very shallow) changes to PES6... like changing the kits players wear or the players shoes () are mostly a waste of time .... when we have such bad AI to play against , no?

We do other things too of course, like swapping the sound files to change the commentators voices ,
but is the commentary system itself not totally broken, no? Is it not an object of mockery ? Why has nobody coded a better one ?

This AI framework will let programmers code new commentary systems too. The match evaluator can be used for that now.
We just need to turn off the old commentary in pes6 menu. Then have the AI code play sound files instead!

And for an illustration of our technological advances as a community for 16 years... our best software is Kitserver , right? And its so useful...
This software relies on setting a new texture for a mesh. You hook directx and you do

m_pIDirect3DDevice8->SetTexture(0, NEW_KIT)_TEXTURE);
HRESULT result = m_pIDirect3DDevice8->DrawIndexedPrimitive( Type, minIndex, NumVertices, startIndex, primCount);

Thats it!

View attachment 184558

Apart from changing textures with Kitserver and the little bit of hacking around with the Cheat Engine (TM) to break the ball physics and such.
What have we done?

So Enda. Why haven't we developed anything cooler?

Well in my opinion , its because Reddwarf retired!
It is too difficult for anyone else.
There has been nobody else to fill in for my old friend Reddwarf.

Otherwise someone would have done it, no?

Thats easy to say right?
So let me explain why its difficult.

(1) PES6 interfaces with the joypad and the keyboard at driver level.

Tools like Auto hot key, the Java robot library, even C# event libraries (which are used for modding in many other games) do not work for PES6.
PES6 simply ignores everything like this. It has hampered peoples attempts to control the players using code.

(2) The second problem is that Konami obfuscates the position vectors of the players and the ball in RAM. Its a big mess in there!
Even if programmers manage to reverse engineer the memory addresses, they will still have no idea how to use the numbers they get.

The pitch in PES6 is not represented as a continuous surface. It actually has four different segments patched together in there.
The numbers approach a limit in the center of the pitch and they do not grow/shrink linearly as the ball moves around the pitch.

In one area of the pitch the difference can be tiny and in other parts the differential is much larger.
So when (if a programmer ever managed to) track the ball , it just jumps around.

So a programmer can not work out where the ball is.
If you don't know where the ball is or the players, how can you make something to commentate ? How can you make an AI?

The first module. A metadata component named the "Match Evaluator" retrieves this data and builds additional metadata (namely the network analysis of each teams passing network to allow the AI to decide which players to mark and follow). There are variables computed such as

The key player in each team
The weak player in each team

For each player in the team
it calculates who connects them to the team (who passes most to them)
It calculates who they connect to the team (who they pass too)

It ranks all the players in importance

It works out which player currently "owns" the ball.

Who player 1 is controlling.

It records every passes direction (to see which players passing forwards, backwards ie progressing the ball)
The length of each pass

Hundreds of variables are calculated and made available in the Match Evaluator

The AI makes some decisions then based on the variables available to it and instructs the virtual joypad module to move the players accordingly

View attachment 184555

The virtual joypad module I programmed allows driver level events to be programmatically sent to the match engine.

This allows me to control the players using Java code. Player 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 can be individually controlled and programmed using code. These slots are set to virtual joypad ports in settings.exe

View attachment 184556


I would like each team in PES6 to play with their own unique style. This is an enormous goal and for this reality to happen the most intelligent solution will be to make this framework available to everyone who has an academic email (and to some programmers who pm me) and hope that they create their own AIs. Maybe we could have matches between us programmers and do a competition among ourselves to see whos code is best for fun to stimulate creativity.

I will congregate the AI implementations then into a patch (with style modifications made for each team) and make this available for regular players to install and script the styles as they wish.

The first version of the project is finished. It lets us play 1v1 against a simple rule based AI in a 1v1 match. The AI in the two videos above has just six rules to follow and as you can it is capable of defending , passing to other players, shooting and it scored a goal:

View attachment 184557

Now I would like you to imagine an AI with thousands of rules and sub systems for things like calculating the perfect long pass? The perfect shot?
With different rules for different players , like a specific crossing function implemented just for Beckham?

If you know Java, You can modify these rules in real time too (without restarting the match!)
So it's a lot of fun to program with.

What this framework provides

It provides three modules.

A match evaluator module.
This lets programmers who are not familiar with reverse engineering to access a lot of information hidden inside of pes6 memory using just their normal Java codes.

The match evaluator module converts the obfuscated figures found in memory into clean percentage space (X 0.0% - 100.0%, Y 0.0% - 100.0%) values before giving them to the programmer. Which they can work with easily.

If you know where the ball and the players are, you can compute meta data such as.

- The player who owns the ball (I provide this already)
- Perform network analysis of each teams passing network (Provided)
- Assign importance ranks to each player in each team (Provided)
- Much more I am sure they can think of themselves
- The animation ID of each player which can be used to know who is shooting, tackling, running etc


View attachment 184569


The data structure we represent each team as is a complete graph with 11 vertices. Our structure is decorated with metric properties
using PageRank, the vector space representation of the match and detected temporal events by the Match Evaluator.


View attachment 184564

The Match Evaluator (along with analysing the game in progress outlined above) also has a historical data source it can query

This dataset I created was computed using a set of match event feeds that were made available by Opta and Manchester City to the data science community online.

http://playground.opta.net/?game_id=131897&feed_type=F7

176 matches in total , where every pass was recorded in xml

I was able to transform each feeds xml into a row in the dataset so that it has the same shape as the PES6 Match Evaluator data

POSITION,P0_IN_NUM,P1_IN_NUM,P2_IN_NUM,P3_IN_NUM,P4_IN_NUM,P5_IN_NUM,P6_IN_NUM,P7_IN_NUM,P8_IN_NUM,P9_IN_NUM,P10_IN_NUM,P0_OUT_NUM,P1_OUT_NUM,P2_OUT_NUM,P3_OUT_NUM,P4_OUT_NUM,
P5_OUT_NUM,P6_OUT_NUM,P7_OUT_NUM,P8_OUT_NUM,P9_OUT_NUM,P10_OUT_NUM,P0_OUT_LENGTH,P1_OUT_LENGTH,P2_OUT_LENGTH,P3_OUT_LENGTH,P4_OUT_LENGTH,P5_OUT_LENGTH,P6_OUT_LENGTH,P7_OUT_LENGTH,
P8_OUT_LENGTH,P9_OUT_LENGTH,P10_OUT_LENGTH,P0_OUT_ANGLE,P1_OUT_ANGLE,P2_OUT_ANGLE,P3_OUT_ANGLE,P4_OUT_ANGLE,P5_OUT_ANGLE,P6_OUT_ANGLE,P7_OUT_ANGLE,P8_OUT_ANGLE,P9_OUT_ANGLE,
P10_OUT_ANGLE,AVERAGE_X_POSITION,AVERAGE_Y_POSITION,TOTAL_NUMBER_OF_PASSES_RECEIVED,P0_PAGERANK_IMPORTANCE,P1_PAGERANK_IMPORTANCE,P2_PAGERANK_IMPORTANCE,P3_PAGERANK_IMPORTANCE
,P4_PAGERANK_IMPORTANCE,P5_PAGERANK_IMPORTANCE,P6_PAGERANK_IMPORTANCE,P7_PAGERANK_IMPORTANCE,P8_PAGERANK_IMPORTANCE,P9_PAGERANK_IMPORTANCE,P10_PAGERANK_IMPORTANCE,PAGERANK_RANK,RESULT

You can view the script here


The historical dataset the Match Evaluator uses (scroll across to see the pagerank)


We will use this to get the AIs to make decisions based on real life matches when they and the match are in the closest state to an entry or entries in the dataset (nearest neighbors algorithm perhaps)

The second part is a virtual joypad utility written in Python.
It has a socket connection to the match evaluator module.
So don't worry, you dont need to know both Python and Java!

This part lets the programmers control the players inside pes6 also, using their normal Java codes.


View attachment 184575


View attachment 184567

I include a utility for setting up each virtual joypad


The third part is a C++ .DLL that allows the programmers to interface with pes6s directx calls. It has api for creating rectangles, text and such on pes6s screen and for setting new textures for any mesh currently drawn (allowing them to update the texture of the pitch surface for example - if they want to add mud dynamically during a match based on the heat map of the players positions or do something with water puddles - they can just draw these puddles on the pitch).

The programmers can also disable the drawing of any mesh (such as turning off the stadium to improve performance) while conducting their tests.

The culmination of these modules can help programmers make improvements to pes6 , like new commentary systems by using the match evaluator information to play commentary sound clips and also fan chants that play when certain players are substituted, tackle etc,

I am looking for collaborators who like programming and are fun people to chat with. preferably using voice chat in english on whatsapp. pm me.

Regards
Enda

 

[BluesyShrimper]

Does anyone know - is there a PES3/WE7/WE7I patch that allows you to do an all-Italian Master League? I don't play with patches much, but this would definitely interest me if it was out there.
I messed around with the Wendetta patches but they don't have all the Italian clubs from that season, and they also commit the ultimate PES sin of editing the ML defaults names! Which is a shame because it looks really solid otherwise despite an all italy ML not being possible.

 

[galaxy]

Hi everyone! I read you from time to time and it's always fascinating to read debates about the best or favourites retro PESes. But at the end of the day, this is something that will remain unsolved forever: the history of Pro Evo is so rich and every title has something to claim. I would like to switch the discussion to another point. Not, as I said, about the best PES ever. But to answer this question: which PES is the most retro? Now, what does "retro" mean?

I don't think it's simply "old". If it was, the most retro PES would have been the oldest, maybe PES 1, or some ISS Pro Evo, or even something earlier by Konami... The retro experience is in the present, we take one old PES now and it reminds us of the past. But it's good, in the present. Then how to determine the most retro PES ever? Again, I don't think that newer PES titles, even if the last PES ever released may be technically retro, could run for this "most retro PES" crown. Their game engine, animations, everything, is still modern, and ps4 consoles, for example, are still being sold. I'll point one objective aspect of this discussion, emerging from your observations. PES games came in cycles. The most iconical PES cycle was maybe the PS2-era. When did that era end?

For most, with PES 6. However, ps2 games continued to be released with gems such as 2008 ps2 and other good titles until PES 2014. However, the "line of succession" continued with the ps3 titles and most of us will agree with the fact that PES 2010 (ps3, pc...) is, in fact, the last ps2-based Konami main release, if we look at the game engine and gameplay experience. So, PES 2010 ps3 is a very good candidate for this. But there is an even better one. As I believe, the most retro PES of all time. A PES game that clearly "looks back" to previous games, even a previous console, as its base. Of course it's linked to its close predecessors, since retains some elements (animations, goalkeeper consistency...) of those. But this game looks even further behind, it's fully engrained in quite older titles. It was quintessentially retro from the start, from its release. As if Konami wanted to last tribute its older football games.

It's a game that served as a graphical and engine base for all subsequent ps2 titles for 10 consecutive years, yet it looks strikingly, and in contrast to previous PESes, like the ISS and ps1 titles. Ladies (in case there are any...) and gentlemen, I'm talking about Pro Evolution Soccer 4. Although I did not play much older PESes than 4, I tried some of them and watched with interest YouTube gameplays of them, and this is my analysis. We all know that the ISS, more arcadey games, were produced by a separate Konami studio. Then, in 2001, the PES series started, and Konami tried to make changes to improve the simulative aspects of the game. For example, PES 3 seems the most ISS-unlike of the first PES titles. And if you look at PES 5 and 6, they look and feel almost nothing like ISS. And there is this oddity-in-between, PES 4. With more animations than on PS1, more responsiveness, and... that ISS-like gameplay.

I'm not saying it's a remastering but look at how graceful PES 4 feels. Even if arcadish to many, it plays some ISS-like "music". Everything is harmonious and light, just like in ISS. Players can run in circles as they do in the ISS and ps1 Konami series, the simple ISS-like animation turns are back (of course along other new animations and possibilities from PES 1-3) but, in sum, I think it's evident that Konami wanted to offer, again, that kind of older experience and feeling for the last time. Not only PES 4 seems to look so back in time, but it's also a kind of animation encyclopedia of traditional Konami moves (for example, the ISS-like GK long shots). A world that de facto disappeared with PES 5, when Konami went for the simulative approach, ending the ISS tradition. Another important point is the AI. Until PES 4, the AI behaved like in ISS games, while the PES 5 one and all subsequent ones are clear departures. What do you think? If you agree, then, let's say hail to PES 4: the most retro PES of all time! And the good news is that... despite its unpopularity, it's still played offline and online.

 

[vialli82]

Nice post @galaxy

To me, it's clearly PES 1 if we said "PES", in term no of more retro but quality too. WE5 is a bad copy from ISS Pro evo 2 with stats on 19 and plenty of bugs.
PES 1 is really what i considers as the 1st PES. They added animations, feints, stats on 99, and one thing that everyone was "OH YEAH" is the fact that you could directly play with the best clubs all over the world / not updated but we didn't carried at all.

On the pitch everything seemed possible, but it was hard, really hard, and feeled slow as everyone played ISS Pro evo 2 with the speed bar at full range lol.
Just basic editing > names only (we got to wait PES 2 to change players, PES 3 to got custom faces and not preset only to choose + transfers etc.)
More focused on Nations than clubs like "retro" football (it was much much more popular at the time for everyone > it's very retro and the closest to ISS Pro)

And from the second part with the new engine, WE7-PES3-WE7Ijap was pretty Retro too. Basic in everything, they even removed some animations from PES 2 for the new engine; it was pretty limited.

Now, before ISS, i would just say ISS 98 : only nations, ambiance like older 16 bits games and color palette too, etc. etc. that's the one looking more like a 1990 arcade game even if it was pretty balanced...

But after all that post, we need to define what "more retro" would say, if that's the case, i would place ISS Pro 98 EU or US (just different rosters) as the closest to oldies football games in terms of presentation on the pitch.

 

[vialli82]

Guys, i'm practically done with PES 5 about option file, then i attack the patch.

There's one thing that tilt me and i would like to make an "exchange" : from PES 6 to 2014 they don't mention teams names. It's better for fakes ones.
On PES 5 yes, "From the left we got X team, from the right etc." + some commentary.
I got, a FIFA sound files with real names... So it's okay for the first version with all PES 5 original teams. For ML, it's okay for not having WC 2006 teams on it, and Classics instead (they don't appears in ML thankfully : i may correct some face)
Also Japan and Korea won't got 350 points but real supposed values/different stats too.

---

Now, i want to add some others Nationals teams for the other versions. For those one i will try to exchange commentaries presentation from PES 6-2008 to PES 5 (i will explain) and replacing also when the team doing something the commentary related. There's not a lot commentaries to change.
Otherwhise : i will put a "blank" simply for Angola/Trinidad/Togo/Ghana extra teams...
>Explanation : teams name aren't mentionned in PES 6 to 2014 in any commentary. And there's separate mini commentaries for each part of the game (Presentation, when a team is doing something, an own goal etc.)

Will mention that for WC, some commentary will be "...." >blank. Or play without commentaries (that's what i do... I'm tired to heard the same thing again and again).
I'll see later what i can do : at the moment it's one of the most authentic retro "like if PES 5 got transfers and wasn't late from 1 years about stats" you will found on the market.
BUT i won't wait that version to release the original one. It will be later.

About commentaries, when i play FLS or World Cup Patch and heard Morocco instead of Ghana, i got herpes growing on my face all sudden. I prefers to heard nothing instead lol. It's doable with DKZ. Didn't found those teams commentaries so... Perhaps in Shollym all Nations in the world patch, i will check on it.

Note : those real teams will replace classics. I want to keep all NT in game, and erase all Classics.

 

[millossobek]

Finally uninstalled PES 2016 to make room for Smoke Patch's Football Life. No matter how much I tried to overlook the weak goalkeepers, I just couldn't get past it. I tried to like the game, but after the 5th time a goal is conceded due to horrendous goalkeeping.. enough is enough.

I even tried using all the gameplay patches I could find but I couldn't find any that fixed the goalkeeping significantly, it's like it's hard-coded into the game or something.

 

[Fenomeno9]

I have recently started to play PS2 games on PCSX2 emulator on my computer. I was happy when I noticed there were PES games for PS2 until 2014 and want to try them out. I just had a quick game on PES 2008 PS2 and it looked and felt to me a lot like PES 6, but I will need more time to play it.

Are there big differences between the games for PS2 from 2008 until 2014, gameplay wise but also regarding licenses, number of stadiums etc? In 2014 I think they only had like 12 stadiums or so but edit mode looked much more detailed than in 2008, it would be great to have a game with good gameplay and I also like editing. Stadium editor I think was only available in PC version right?

I remember playing most of the PES games from this era on PC and one day I was so annoyed with my bad goalkeepers, average players dribbling around my defenders like they were all Maradona or Messi, losing games in league mode after dominating completely (something like 80 % possession and 40-4 shots for me, but 2-3 as the final result because COM keepers were in beast mode all the time and scored with an incredible precision every time when they needed..) that I stopped buying the new editions and went back to PES 5 and 6 but I would like to try them in PS2 now.

 

[marqisspes6]

I have recently started to play PS2 games on PCSX2 emulator on my computer. I was happy when I noticed there were PES games for PS2 until 2014 and want to try them out. I just had a quick game on PES 2008 PS2 and it looked and felt to me a lot like PES 6, but I will need more time to play it.

Are there big differences between the games for PS2 from 2008 until 2014, gameplay wise but also regarding licenses, number of stadiums etc? In 2014 I think they only had like 12 stadiums or so but edit mode looked much more detailed than in 2008, it would be great to have a game with good gameplay and I also like editing. Stadium editor I think was only available in PC version right?

I remember playing most of the PES games from this era on PC and one day I was so annoyed with my bad goalkeepers, average players dribbling around my defenders like they were all Maradona or Messi, losing games in league mode after dominating completely (something like 80 % possession and 40-4 shots for me, but 2-3 as the final result because COM keepers were in beast mode all the time and scored with an incredible precision every time when they needed..) that I stopped buying the new editions and went back to PES 5 and 6 but I would like to try them in PS2 now.

if you want my opinion about ps2 games... pes 2008 and 2014 are one of the best, if we take out pes5 from the list, there were a few changes into the games but do not expect anything different from pes5/6 on a matter of modes and stuff to do on edit mode, they had their limitations and yes licensed were changing quite a lot, thanks to modders that was fixed on all the ps2 games but a iso with many changes is needed

 

[millossobek]

if you want my opinion about ps2 games... pes 2008 and 2014 are one of the best, if we take out pes5 from the list, there were a few changes into the games but do not expect anything different from pes5/6 on a matter of modes and stuff to do on edit mode, they had their limitations and yes licensed were changing quite a lot, thanks to modders that was fixed on all the ps2 games but a iso with many changes is needed

Wanted to ask.. Which one can you guys recommend to play in .iso (PCSX2) that is readily available with a good English (or Spanish) translation? Are there any of these that come fully patched with licensed teams? I'm a bit new in terms of PS2 .isos as I am a PC gamer.. I've heard some great things about PES 2008 and later editions but am a bit confused on where to find these .isos to try out. Right now I've only tried Winning Eleven 9 Asia Championship (which is really good and is translated from Japanese) but would like to play later PS2 versions that I've heard great things about. Either with Asian or European teams.

 

[BillyKong]

Wanted to ask.. Which one can you guys recommend to play in .iso (PCSX2) that is readily available with a good English (or Spanish) translation? Are there any of these that come fully patched with licensed teams? I'm a bit new in terms of PS2 .isos as I am a PC gamer.. I've heard some great things about PES 2008 and later editions but am a bit confused on where to find these .isos to try out. Right now I've only tried Winning Eleven 9 Asia Championship (which is really good and is translated from Japanese) but would like to play later PS2 versions that I've heard great things about. Either with Asian or European teams.

I might have something nice for you in a couple of weeks 🙂

 

[Lucian0]

Wanted to ask.. Which one can you guys recommend to play in .iso (PCSX2) that is readily available with a good English (or Spanish) translation? Are there any of these that come fully patched with licensed teams? I'm a bit new in terms of PS2 .isos as I am a PC gamer.. I've heard some great things about PES 2008 and later editions but am a bit confused on where to find these .isos to try out. Right now I've only tried Winning Eleven 9 Asia Championship (which is really good and is translated from Japanese) but would like to play later PS2 versions that I've heard great things about. Either with Asian or European teams.

If you want to play PES 2008 on PCSX2 you can try Gee's work, which has the ISO and OF with the teams updated to this year:

https://evoweb.uk/threads/gees-pes-2008-21-22-option-file-and-iso-file-for-ps2.90190/


I also recommend the 2008 version of J-League Winning Eleven, an improved version of PES.
It is a league with lower player stats than the European teams, which in my opinion generates more real things at a physical level and in terms of gameplay/IA on the field. (Man I feel like a Ad-bot, always writing the same about this game)

I don't know about the legality on these old games, but I'm sure you can find the PS2 ISOs at archive.org.
And the almost complete english translation at the end of the first post here:

https://evoweb.uk/threads/different-patch-for-we6-we7-we8-we8le-jwe9ac-pes5-jwe2007cc-jwe2008.74728/

I can't speak about the later games, they are already very buried in my memory.

 

[BillyKong]

That’s the one I’m currently working on.

I have translated most of the game now because unfortunately the patch above is an older version of Fernandos translation. I think the final one for J.League Winning Eleven 2008 Club Championship was v3.5 and the one linked is 1.5 so I’m trying to fill in the gaps as I can’t find a working link anymore for v3.5.

I have also managed to import all the club emblems and competition logos as well as new referee kits, goalkeeper gloves and some hackjob version of adidas boots too! Working on the option file as well to fix the unlicensed Premier League and La Liga kits.
As well as some other little fixes here and there 😉

Like @Lucian0 and @vialli82 have been saying J.League 2008 is one of the best PES releases ever. It’s similar to PES 2008 but unbelievably with even better AI and newer rosters. I wish I had listened to them before and spent more time playing it earlier as I wouldn’t have wasted my time with J.League 2007 which is much closer to PES 6 instead.

 

[MadbaLL]

@goalgerd

any news ,about your project?

 

[Falcao_9]

If someone is gaming developer here and a good programmer i wish that someone will create a football game with only bird eye camera...
I have a friend who is playing PES 5, all of these years with eye-bird camera we played some games 1vs1 it has fun...

I made almost the same camera for my PES 2017 with sider...

 

[goalgerd]

@goalgerd

any news ,about your project?

My pc broke a few weeks back 😢😢, luckily I managed to salvage the data files from my ssd. I've a new pc being organised as we speak, just need to update the last final 3 leagues with my gameplay formula, if everything goes to plan I'm hopeful of a Christmas release 🎄🎄


Here's the amount of detail I've actually put into every famous player in the file, there are multiple versions of all the greats with different stats on a growth curve to where they were in their careers at the time with each different version also having an updated body type to match their age profile at the time . For example I've made 6 individual Ronaldos covering his career from the 16 year old at the 1994 World Cup to the 2004 Real Madrid version were even though he was heavy he was still an elite level striker, I've been really enjoying matching up all the greats against each other to see who was the best

 

[marqisspes6]

If someone is gaming developer here and a good programmer i wish that someone will create a football game with only bird eye camera...
I have a friend who is playing PES 5, all of these years with eye-bird camera we played some games 1vs1 it has fun...

I made almost the same camera for my PES 2017 with sider...

well you can do ask/suggest to be here https://evoweb.uk/threads/active-soccer-2023.92430

 

[Fabri55]

100% Jermain Defoe style!

 

[MadbaLL]

My pc broke a few weeks back 😢😢, luckily I managed to salvage the data files from my ssd. I've a new pc being organised as we speak, just need to update the last final 3 leagues with my gameplay formula, if everything goes to plan I'm hopeful of a Christmas release 🎄🎄


Here's the amount of detail I've actually put into every famous player in the file, there are multiple versions of all the greats with different stats on a growth curve to where they were in their careers at the time with each different version also having an updated body type to match their age profile at the time . For example I've made 6 individual Ronaldos covering his career from the 16 year old at the 1994 World Cup to the 2004 Real Madrid version were even though he was heavy he was still an elite level striker, I've been really enjoying matching up all the greats against each other to see who was the best

View attachment 186129
View attachment 186130

excellent news mate