The Retro-PES Corner

Mikhail said:
Been playing PES 2018 on PC of late.

I love the clean look of this game compared to the PES games which came after it.

It’s vibrant and colourful. It’s so weird how these games seem to go backwards graphically. PES 2021 is fugly, as are the later FIFA games on PS4/XONE.
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I agree, I think part of the reason for such cohesive visuals is also because it was before faces scans too.

The general aesthetic of the game still looks like a video game rather than photo realistic which is the route they went regarding the lighting in PES 2019 & then eventually PES 2020 with scanning partner club's player heads & giving their stadiums extra special attention regarding immersive presentation, lighting and turf.

The problem non scanned but handmade players faces and generic unmade player faces stick out like a sore thumb against the high end scanned ones and the older stadiums clearly show their age against modern ones.

PES 2018 is just a far more consistent visual affair.
 
Marlon Anthony said:
I agree, I think part of the reason for such cohesive visuals is also because it was before faces scans too.

The general aesthetic of the game still looks like a video game rather than photo realistic which is the route they went regarding the lighting in PES 2019 & then eventually PES 2020 with scanning partner club's player heads & giving their stadiums extra special attention regarding immersive presentation, lighting and turf.

The problem non scanned but handmade players faces and generic unmade player faces stick out like a sore thumb against the high end scanned ones and the older stadiums clearly show their age against modern ones.

PES 2018 is just a far more consistent visual affair.
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Interesting, thanks for the insight - I have zero knowledge about graphic design etc. I just know what my eyes like & dislike! :LOL:

Going back to PES 2020 and 2021. On PS4/5, everything is so dark and over-saturated. Again, I never did understand it when some people were praising the visuals. And I always say it but those damn yellow pitches were an immersion breaker for me. I've recently been playing PES 2021 with mods and I still don't understand how one guy can create better-looking pitches than a team of people at Konami?!
 
Mikhail said:
Interesting, thanks for the insight - I have zero knowledge about graphic design etc. I just know what my eyes like & dislike! :LOL:

Going back to PES 2020 and 2021. On PS4/5, everything is so dark and over-saturated. Again, I never did understand it when some people lost their minds over these visuals. And I always say it but those damn yellow pitches were an immersion breaker for me. I've recently been playing PES 2021 with mods and I still don't understand how one guy can create better-looking pitches than a team of people at Konami?!
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I mean, I'm no expert at game graphic design myself however, being an artist myself, You have to have some understanding about principles of art, on of which being cohesion and consistency, And when your replicating reality, it's really difficult because everyone has a different interpretation of what looks realistic. One person will think The Last Of US 2 looks photo realistic and another will instantly recognise it looks artificial.

However when you stylish something, even if slightly, there's an instant acceptance that something is interpreting reality rather replicating it and one can accept and enjoy the imagragry with out the pressure of ruthless comparison and take the presentation at face value.

There's a reason why games like PES 5 will continue to be timeless, it's relax but recognisable artstyle is part of it's charm. PES 2018 is an example of that and why visually it works so well, 5 years later. Even than, visually the gaming industry hasn't moved on all that much anyway.
 
I also need to desactivate HDR due to the over-saturation. Then i got a better image.
But it's a pain in the ass the desactivate it and reactivate on your console every time you launch that version.

The game is HDR compatible, but not optimised for. I can better resolve the lighting issues with my simple 1080p TV.
But you can see in Edit mode for example than the lighting is more advanced : shadows and all on the facebuild...

But like many people said : technically better doesn't mean more beautiful. There's tons of example like Bloodborne, technically basic, but with an artistic palette and design that makes the game more authentic. Like some preset in PES manmade looking... More lookalike than scanned ones.

As many stuff are made in "correlation" with the game graphical engine, global rendering made for our screen, you can take some fakes stadiums as another example but i ain't a pro about stadium (i just don't care that much, fake or not as long as it's looking ok to play on)
 
Madmac79 said:
J-Leagues do all have their version of ML.
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Plus, there's no D2 and the full league instead. It's less fantasy/fun than compiling teams like on PES but a bit less unrealistic.

Also, i noticed that JL2007cc got the same "350 points" issue than the olders one. Just need to put free NT to get the real cost (there's no NT in that game so).

BUT not JL2008cc. It's like a different points ratings, but seems for every player : price seems lower (between 300 and 800 or something like that, if i'm right)
I need to re-launch and ML to be sure for others leagues players. But prices seemed lower overall.
 
vialli82 said:
Plus, there's no D2 and the full league instead. It's less fantasy/fun than compiling teams like on PES but a bit less unrealistic.

Also, i noticed that JL2007cc got the same "350 points" issue than the olders one. Just need to put free NT to get the real cost (there's no NT in that game so).

BUT not JL2008cc. It's like a different points ratings, but seems for every player : price seems lower (between 300 and 800 or something like that, if i'm right)
I need to re-launch and ML to be sure for others leagues players. But prices seemed lower overall.
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You mean no D2 if you start with a non japanese team, right? Cause if you pick for example an Euro team it will put you indeed in one of the Leagues without the possibility of a second division, but if you play a proper ML/JL there actually is D2 :THINK:
 
slamsoze said:
Day of random guess today, i guess ..(lol)

I have never messed with kitsetver in. 2010, but by your description, sounds like something is assigned via kitsetver, that eother doesn't work properly, or it doesn't exist, so the game drains the first possible stadium by mechanics, thats why all teams from that division have the same fake one.

I assume all your D2 teams are edited ones.Also despite you try via edit mode, something by your patch side, kitsetver or whatever overrides your in game editing.

Just a guess..
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Thanks man.. Yeah, what I find most weird about this patch is that it doesn't have any map server in kitserver.. Maybe there's a way to create a map server specifically for Sheffield Wednesday, since it's the team I'm playing with ATM? That's a solution that could occur to me, but I'd actually need help with this since I don't know how to apply map server in PES 2010.. Let me know if there's any way this could be applied, or if there's another solution.. :)

@vialli82 Now that you mention JLWE9AC, I did actually start a Korean ML in it, and it's been quite entertaining, just have had a tough time scoring (a lot of 0-0 games), I think it has to do with the game itself being set up with huge midfield battles, and also the fact that I LOWERED my team stats before starting my ML, haha wanted to be the weakest team in the K-League! :LMAO:
 
millossobek said:
Thanks man.. Yeah, what I find most weird about this patch is that it doesn't have any map server in kitserver.. Maybe there's a way to create a map server specifically for Sheffield Wednesday, since it's the team I'm playing with ATM? That's a solution that could occur to me, but I'd actually need help with this since I don't know how to apply map server in PES 2010.. Let me know if there's any way this could be applied, or if there's another solution.. :)

@vialli82 Now that you mention JLWE9AC, I did actually start a Korean ML in it, and it's been quite entertaining, just have had a tough time scoring (a lot of 0-0 games), I think it has to do with the game itself being set up with huge midfield battles, and also the fact that I LOWERED my team stats before starting my ML, haha wanted to be the weakest team in the K-League! :LMAO:
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I don't have a solution, i am clueless unfortunately. Maybe it is hard-edited in the Datapack?

AFAIK pes2010 does use the current system with DPs. Datapacks lay , if you turn in your Windows "show hidden folders" to On, in C/ Program Data, it is above Program Files.

What's the files edited there, CPKs? No clue at all..
 
H_G said:
No 2008
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>It's the third option to start an ML (1st Exhibition mode, 2nd Fantasista/BAL, 3rd Master League)

Well there's a lot of modes and the PNG mentionning it are in Japanese, but it's explain on the scrolling stuff below, for the english translated version... But they don't say "Master league" litteraly.

As i talked about the different price, it was about JL2008. There's an ML on every PES/WE games.
 
Madmac79 said:
You mean no D2 if you start with a non japanese team, right? Cause if you pick for example an Euro team it will put you indeed in one of the Leagues without the possibility of a second division, but if you play a proper ML/JL there actually is D2 :THINK:
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Yes, when you start with others leagues (they litterally mention "Italy" "English" "Netherlands", i was surprised)
I think you can put any teams in every league, but the team will be replaced by : i put Kashima Antlers in Italy, and an Cagliari played in J-League.
 
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-Just retried, my memory was good :
There's 3 option for ML participants, then 3 option for ML structure. A bit complicated to explain but there's multiple choices; It's better to try yourself and check because it's complicated to explain 😅

1. If you select "Club of J-League" : the best option for that game, there's 3 choices, (1 isn't available for foreign clubs participants) : you can compete real J-League structure, or having an ML with others Euro league on it, or the same as PES with fantasy leagues, i'll explain the system after it's not like ML exactly (the closest to PES ML is the "Play in Euro League")

In brief for J-League clubs : 3 option of ML system. The old, the one without D2, and the J-League special ML.

2. If you select "Clubs of foreign country", you got 2 options, or "Play in Euro League" is the option to play with strict leagues and no D2 (even if you can put Anderlecht in La Liga) of 20 teams without promotion/relegation.

.... And the very special "Create an original league" is again ANOTHER system or ML : 20 teams in Division 1 and 14 in Division 2 / I just check and i'm WTF :LMAO:It's the TOTAL FANTASY league in fact!

When you think how restricted we are since PES 2014 vs all those options... Sniff
 
vialli82 said:
>It's the third option to start an ML (1st Exhibition mode, 2nd Fantasista/BAL, 3rd Master League)

Well there's a lot of modes and the PNG mentionning it are in Japanese, but it's explain on the scrolling stuff below, for the english translated version... But they don't say "Master league" litteraly.

As i talked about the different price, it was about JL2008. There's an ML on every PES/WE games.
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Sorry, I mean is there a League mode in WE JL 2008 ?
On 2007 I found it easily, but not on 2008
 
H_G said:
Sorry, I mean is there a League mode in WE JL 2008 ?
On 2007 I found it easily, but not on 2008
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Yes, the 5th mode, even if there's a J-League logo on it, but you can choose any others leagues ;)

Probably why the misunderstanding : you through it was "J-league only - League mode" i'm suppose, because i through the same.
But i tried every mode. There's also the World Tour mode with missions but vs Clubs, real or fakes.
There's some from Nigeria, Cuba etc.

But all Asia-Oceania club are real club with fakes players names. Beijing, Sydney, even club from Syria, Vietnam...
Well, the AFC club from that season or the previous one... I suppose.

As i love NT competitions from those years and before, i never too much got invested in a JL version. Plus for ML my line of sight was always players from NT without contracts. As good, but less expensive.
 
vialli82 said:
-Just retried, my memory was good :
There's 3 option for ML participants, then 3 option for ML structure. A bit complicated to explain but there's multiple choices; It's better to try yourself and check because it's complicated to explain 😅

1. If you select "Club of J-League" : the best option for that game, there's 3 choices, (1 isn't available for foreign clubs participants) : you can compete real J-League structure, or having an ML with others Euro league on it, or the same as PES with fantasy leagues, i'll explain the system after it's not like ML exactly (the closest to PES ML is the "Play in Euro League")

In brief for J-League clubs : 3 option of ML system. The old, the one without D2, and the J-League special ML.

2. If you select "Clubs of foreign country", you got 2 options, or "Play in Euro League" is the option to play with strict leagues and no D2 (even if you can put Anderlecht in La Liga) of 20 teams without promotion/relegation.

.... And the very special "Create an original league" is again ANOTHER system or ML : 20 teams in Division 1 and 14 in Division 2 / I just check and i'm WTF :LMAO:It's the TOTAL FANTASY league in fact!

When you think how restricted we are since PES 2014 vs all those options... Sniff
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That third one, just WOW, it's a complete mindblowner, I only checked the first two indeed before this, no idea you could have something with those numbers. It's indeed really incredible and another shock how Ps2 games came to have some unique options and subtleties.

To tie in with this, another one I'm totally crazy with is that save for (unfortunately) International/World Cup, in all Ps2 Pes from 2008 onwards you can actually play qualifiers in every cup mode, most importantly Euros with 52 teams involved, included of team selections. On next gen ones instead that's totally absent, you can only have final stages! Since to me to bring a national team from qualifiers to victory is perhaps one of the most iconic modes you can have in a football game, I've always been quite disappointed for the lack of interest they displayed on portraying it, moreso thinking they brought some of it on the parallel Ps2 chapters.
 
About PES 2008 : that's why i'm aksing everywhere how i could edit names and at least height/weight.
@marqisspes6 released a txt editor, that's better than nothing : but what i needed is something like the "PES 6 Hidden players editor" tool for my project.

BUT if i take note about what to change, and if someone good in HX editor may change it without tool... It would be perfect. Because it's not a whole database to change! Just need few modifications about it. Text is the biggest to do.

There's also a lot of preset to add on those teams, if it's only names for players.... Well i will probably do it for a basis, but i need to correct those old players which got more information about now than in 2007 when the game was out. So there's a lot of errors, also preset to assign especially on Euro part.


One player was 171cm from an Angola and 188 in real (checked pics, no doubt) a player i got to create for i don't remember if it's PES 5 or 2008 option file... He was corrected on next versions, still hidden through. A good one, could be regular in a Premier League middle range or low range club.
So no, those players from Macedonia, Syria etc. are not random. They're real players under fakes names. I think team you play against are almost as much important than team you can choose. Tons of teams are there for that reason... No one tooks Djurgardens for example lol.

Someone told me on one site that "it doesn't serve to nothing, they're random player etc. do you understand???" etc.
He was completely wrong. i saw by checking some players transfers, for example Belarus to Russia, with the same stats they got on his hidden part.

His argument was because faces were bad made... Not the same guys doing it probably.
I don't think he remember back in the day, how much they were involved in the database, even if they were few, watching real life matchs as it was the only way + OPTA data.
 
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Madmac79 said:
On next gen ones instead that's totally absent, you can only have final stages!
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On Next gen there's some more in the selection that you can't choose in PS2 : i noticed that you could edit Syria for example on the PES 2008 PC O.F. editor.
Perhaps when you try to qualify with Iran, Korea, Australia etc. they appears as challengers : AFC-OFC nations.

But there's less, same number as the hidden teams in PES 6 i think. While there's almost 30 hidden NT in PS2.
 
Example of a JL2008cc "Create original (master) League" random selection of course / i rectify the number of teams and structure @Madmac79

-20 clubs on D1
-12 clubs on D2

Ultimate fantasy league selection panel / Sorry for the D2 clubs not recognisable with their wrong Emblems : most of them are from La Liga

gsdx_20220909013758.png

With that, you can made if like playing also "Top team vs Top Team", a maxi Super League, with the very best of every league + Others Euro...
You won't be restricted by the number of teams to choose.

Edit: sorry for the multiple post, i will edit with a ------- separation next time when i talk about something which needs a separate post (for me at least)
 
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vialli82 said:
Example of a JL2008cc "Create original (master) League" random selection of course / i rectify the number of teams and structure @Madmac79

-20 clubs on D1
-12 clubs on D2

Ultimate fantasy league selection panel / Sorry for the D2 clubs not recognisable with their wrong Emblems : most of them are from La Liga

View attachment 177104

With that, you can made if like playing also "Top team vs Top Team", a maxi Super League, with the very best of every league + Others Euro...
You won't be restricted by the number of teams to choose.

Edit: sorry for the multiple post, i will edit with a ------- separation next time when i talk about something which needs a separate post (for me at least)
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That looks like a really cool league to play in coincidentally, haha I think Dynamo Zagreb are quite cool! I've wanted to play this kind of "mixed league" for a long time, I even have some ideas for future Master League stories which I will reveal in due time. :BSCARF:
 
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