The Retro-PES Corner

Shales said:
And collecting never stops!

Good luck, @PRO_TOO 😄
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Well it stops when I have them all. 😂

na, this really is just a nerdy side project. I’m really not into collecting stuff… i dont like money laying around.

but this was a huge part of my childhood so I’m planning to build a shrine kinda thing. On the plus side, I can put in the disc and play the games with an emulator. 👍
 
PRO_TOO said:
Well it stops when I have them all. 😂

na, this really is just a nerdy side project. I’m really not into collecting stuff… i dont like money laying around.

but this was a huge part of my childhood so I’m planning to build a shrine kinda thing. On the plus side, I can put in the disc and play the games with an emulator. 👍
Click to expand...

My girlfriend couldn't compute when I said I don't actually need half the games I have in order to play them. Thankfully, she's just accepted it and left me to it!
 
You're a real sniper @H_G lol

On the PS2 hardware, i noticed that in game, some games got a lower resolution, you can see it on everything but especially while you looks at thin things, like on the nets more or less aliased etc.. But i repeat : In game.
As we also know since Kitservers that the resolution of various stuffs varies from the factor of long or short distance.

From what i checked, switching game after games (i only take some of the most visible i tooked a looks, need to check on PES3, PES 4, PES6. It's just that i don't play it). It's tested on a 1080p YUV TV, without any scaler, on a CRT TV there's scanlines/effects which "correct" with black lines the missing pixels.
Not on an LCD, why it's better to play on a CRT old TV...
Edit:
I remember having one on my older TV + modded PS2 for 60hz > got an almost perfect image. Was a cable with VGA + red and white for sound entries. But i never got a YUV crt. I'm thinkin to brought one, but old TV are sometimes expensive and you need place if you want to play on an averagely big 4/3 screen.
I believe it's simplier and better than a scaler. The new one i brought is hard to settle + the TV don't recognize that much resolutions or i need to remove some "filters" or stuffs to get a better rendering (needs to try on another LCD, my 4K perhaps should took more resolution with filters)

-PES 1/WE5FE seems to one that IG, they got an higher resolution for example. PES 1 even more, it use the 576p from with 50fps.
PES2/WE6FE too got a relatively higher resolution

-PES 5 got a very small difference of resolution, but especially on the cam when you're playing. Cutscenes and all seems like there's no aliasing at all, on a 1080p YUV monitor. The nets are more ok but not at PES 1 level of detail/resolution. A bit of aliasing start a bit on some game. The engine is different but it runs smooth, there's a good amount of animations, but it's not the one who got the most.

-PES 2008 and PES6 i suppose (needs a close check but as JL2007cc got the same issue) probably one of the version with the same engine with the most animations, but also more aliasing and lower resolution. The nets seems "too thin" and blinky, even in 50HZ as i tried, the LOD is perhaps a very tiny bit higher, but it's not that visible. Same on cutscenes than PES 5 probably, a bit less but not a really visible difference on replays.

It's the last one with the graphic engine which was used since PES 3. But also the versions with the most animations, so more memory needed.
Sad as it's probably my favourite version.

-PES 2014 got some graphical differences all over the pitch, the crowd is more "flat" but the rest is more detailled, and the resolution reaches almost PES1 to PES 5 level. The game looks smooth from long distance.
Well it's not the same graphic engine changed on PES 2009, models, crowd, also stadium structure is different.
Perhaps they improved or re-balanced it since that first "new graphical engine" version 2009, but it's smooth, not so much aliased or blinky.
 
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Silverdome94 said:
Was hoping for some help here, I have a couple of PES 6 games from Sany installers and the graphics are very pixel-y and create a pattern that is distracting while playing. While not exclusive to them, they seem to happen more with Phoenix/Firebird patches from the 2010s (by contrast, the World Cup patches are very high quality).

In the settings, I have the highest resolution and high quality, and the lodcfg is all set to high, I've used the resolution tools, and my kload is:
dx.force-SW-TnL = 0
dx.emulate-HW-TnL = 0
dx.fullscreen.width = 1920
dx.fullscreen.height = 1080
internal.resolution.width = 1920
internal.resolution.height = 1080

But it still looks fuzzy. Is this just a fact from certain patches, or am I missing anything?

View attachment 174388
Click to expand...
did you try using 4k settings?
 
vialli82 said:
You're a real sniper @H_G lol

On the PS2 hardware, i noticed that in game, some games got a lower resolution, you can see it on everything but especially while you looks at thin things, like on the nets more or less aliased etc.. But i repeat : In game.
As we also know since Kitservers that the resolution of various stuffs varies from the factor of long or short distance.

From what i checked, switching game after games (i only take some of the most visible i tooked a looks, need to check on PES3, PES 4, PES6. It's just that i don't play it). It's tested on a 1080p YUV TV, without any scaler, on a CRT TV there's scanlines/effects which "correct" with black lines the missing pixels.
Not on an LCD, why it's better to play on a CRT old TV...
Edit:
I remember having one on my older TV + modded PS2 for 60hz > got an almost perfect image. Was a cable with VGA + red and white for sound entries. But i never got a YUV crt. I'm thinkin to brought one, but old TV are sometimes expensive and you need place if you want to play on an averagely big 4/3 screen.
I believe it's simplier and better than a scaler. The new one i brought is hard to settle + the TV don't recognize that much resolutions or i need to remove some "filters" or stuffs to get a better rendering (needs to try on another LCD, my 4K perhaps should took more resolution with filters)

-PES 1/WE5FE seems to one that IG, they got an higher resolution for example. PES 1 even more, it use the 576p from with 50fps.
PES2/WE6FE too got a relatively higher resolution

-PES 5 got a very small difference of resolution, but especially on the cam when you're playing. Cutscenes and all seems like there's no aliasing at all, on a 1080p YUV monitor. The nets are more ok but not at PES 1 level of detail/resolution. A bit of aliasing start a bit on some game. The engine is different but it runs smooth, there's a good amount of animations, but it's not the one who got the most.

-PES 2008 and PES6 i suppose (needs a close check but as JL2007cc got the same issue) probably one of the version with the same engine with the most animations, but also more aliasing and lower resolution. The nets seems "too thin" and blinky, even in 50HZ as i tried, the LOD is perhaps a very tiny bit higher, but it's not that visible. Same on cutscenes than PES 5 probably, a bit less but not a really visible difference on replays.

It's the last one with the graphic engine which was used since PES 3. But also the versions with the most animations, so more memory needed.
Sad as it's probably my favourite version.

-PES 2014 got some graphical differences all over the pitch, the crowd is more "flat" but the rest is more detailled, and the resolution reaches almost PES1 to PES 5 level. The game looks smooth from long distance.
Well it's not the same graphic engine changed on PES 2009, models, crowd, also stadium structure is different.
Perhaps they improved or re-balanced it since that first "new graphical engine" version 2009, but it's smooth, not so much aliased or blinky.
Click to expand...

For me pes14 has the lower lods of all the times for me, i have already released a tutorial on how to fix the lod level of any pes from pes4 to pes14 (including we/jl games) this has one downside sometimes on console you'll get a small lag during the game but it will look amazing!
 
Perhaps the resolution simply then?
I talk about the PS2 version through but even that version got less thing around the stadium... But on the pitch and around : it's smoother and less pixelated/aliased, that's all i noticed it directely coming from PES 2008 and 5.

It's PES 1 level in terms smoothing, that one too, on YUV no needs things like scaler or scanlines. Except if you don't have the entries for YUV (my 4K and 3 others i know didn't got it, i took a look) as simple YUV > HDMI converter are pretty bad.
Probably that's for the reason you mentionned, they changed the LOD and removed some stuff, flat supporters moving pictures or less cutscenes by keeping the same amount of animation ? No idea, but it's the only who gets PES 1 and 2 level of smooth/not too much pixelisation where you see stadiums, nets etc.

Just wondering why the PS2 didn't get an AA chip like the Dreamcast got. Even the PS3 didn't have if i remember (the time when console architecture wasn't copy/paste from a PC lol)
They tried to make something poweful but hard to program for the long term so the "before PS3" games should be awesome technically like G.O.W. 2 or Shadow of the Colossus? No idea.

Programmers needed to "anti-aliase" their creation one by one practically from what i readed when i was very interested by console chips, different way to create a game with the tools devs got lol.
 
vialli82 said:
Perhaps the resolution simply then?
I talk about the PS2 version through but even that version got less thing around the stadium... But on the pitch and around : it's smoother and less pixelated/aliased, that's all i noticed it directely coming from PES 2008 and 5.

It's PES 1 level in terms smoothing, that one too, on YUV no needs things like scaler or scanlines. Except if you don't have the entries for YUV (my 4K and 3 others i know didn't got it, i took a look) as simple YUV > HDMI converter are pretty bad.
Probably that's for the reason you mentionned, they changed the LOD and removed some stuff, flat supporters moving pictures or less cutscenes by keeping the same amount of animation ? No idea, but it's the only who gets PES 1 and 2 level of smooth/not too much pixelisation where you see stadiums, nets etc.

Just wondering why the PS2 didn't get an AA chip like the Dreamcast got. Even the PS3 didn't have if i remember (the time when console architecture wasn't copy/paste from a PC lol)
They tried to make something poweful but hard to program for the long term so the "before PS3" games should be awesome technically like G.O.W. 2 or Shadow of the Colossus? No idea.

Programmers needed to "anti-aliase" their creation one by one practically from what i readed when i was very interested by console chips, different way to create a game with the tools devs got lol.
Click to expand...

Well i talked with a guy who made ps2 faces and hairs and he hates that when he played on console the face during the match wasnt loading, it was loading like a "fake"/default face model same with hair... (Still talking of pes14) so since he helped me a lot with knowledge of models i manage to help him with that issue, but yeah... Loading too many details during game its too much for the ps2, probably may need a mod for reserved memory, but im not good with it and... Its only 32mb... Even psp from v2 had more ram memory and even video memory, such a sad thing, still my favourite console so far such an amazing collection of games, even out of pes/we games
 
Is there any 22/23 pes 6 patches that still using good old stock pes 6 format for body & kits ? I mean no skinny body, no hd face/kits. Just updated kits + transfers, no update face dont matter.

Dont get me wrong, these new HD stuff is nice but if it's sacrificing game stability i'd rather choose the stock format. Somehow it's annoying the game crashes after playing 5 games or so.
 
Guys, I need some help re-assigning PES 2010 PC kits. I downloaded smoke patch and Sheffield Wednesday has the wrong kit in game. I checked the files inside of their respective kitserver "uni" folders and the kits are correct in there, so the problem has to be incorrect map assignment..

1662061724897.png1662062170810.png

But I really know very little about doing this. If anyone can give me a hand, either through here or through a PM, that would be great.
 
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Sorry bro you know me and PC mods... But i got a question :
Is that Smoke patch that good, what's on the database?
I got PESEDIT one and it's pretty accurate, even if they modded every stats with PSD ones before they separated. But if it's EVERY stats, then there's less a problem : but if you just created missing players with PSD stats it was a balance killer : you had some youth better than guys from starting 11 etc.

Note: I talk from the past, it's a bit better now even if i still think they're giving too high ratings.

The issue was because PESEDIT decreased and changed some stats like for example youth in mentality/teamwork which get very high values on ML when evolving, and PSD guys wasn't happy then. I talked in private with the "boss", as i helped them for the 2014 version they didn't got time to finish : no Liga MX or Asian league to replace PLA/PAS. They stopped then, too much work to recreate what they built, faces shared and all since PES 2008 + they wasn't big fans of that version lol.
 
Hayes said:
Is there any 22/23 pes 6 patches that still using good old stock pes 6 format for body & kits ? I mean no skinny body, no hd face/kits. Just updated kits + transfers, no update face dont matter.

Dont get me wrong, these new HD stuff is nice but if it's sacrificing game stability i'd rather choose the stock format. Somehow it's annoying the game crashes after playing 5 games or so.
Click to expand...

https://www.facebook.com/BestPatchPES6
 
vialli82 said:
Sorry bro you know me and PC mods... But i got a question :
Is that Smoke patch that good, what's on the database?
I got PESEDIT one and it's pretty accurate, even if they modded every stats with PSD ones before they separated. But if it's EVERY stats, then there's less a problem : but if you just created missing players with PSD stats it was a balance killer : you had some youth better than guys from starting 11 etc.

Note: I talk from the past, it's a bit better now even if i still think they're giving too high ratings.

The issue was because PESEDIT decreased and changed some stats like for example youth in mentality/teamwork which get very high values on ML when evolving, and PSD guys wasn't happy then. I talked in private with the "boss", as i helped them for the 2014 version they didn't got time to finish : no Liga MX or Asian league to replace PLA/PAS. They stopped then, too much work to recreate what they built, faces shared and all since PES 2008 + they wasn't big fans of that version lol.
Click to expand...

OF is not that good in terms of starting lineups and bench players.
 
vialli82 said:
Sorry bro you know me and PC mods... But i got a question :
Is that Smoke patch that good, what's on the database?
I got PESEDIT one and it's pretty accurate, even if they modded every stats with PSD ones before they separated. But if it's EVERY stats, then there's less a problem : but if you just created missing players with PSD stats it was a balance killer : you had some youth better than guys from starting 11 etc.

Note: I talk from the past, it's a bit better now even if i still think they're giving too high ratings.

The issue was because PESEDIT decreased and changed some stats like for example youth in mentality/teamwork which get very high values on ML when evolving, and PSD guys wasn't happy then. I talked in private with the "boss", as i helped them for the 2014 version they didn't got time to finish : no Liga MX or Asian league to replace PLA/PAS. They stopped then, too much work to recreate what they built, faces shared and all since PES 2008 + they wasn't big fans of that version lol.
Click to expand...
Hey bro, I wouldn't be able to tell you for sure, but I think up to 2013, perhaps PESEdit was the best patch, not sure about how accurate Smoke Patch is for earlier versions I just downloaded it because it was very easy to install.. But maybe I will give PESEdit a try for 2010.

But I can tell you for a fact that for PES 2017 onwards, Smoke patch is among the best patches. Very complete, no glitches, easy to install, and accurate. At least it is one of my favorites! :TU:

EDIT: @vialli82 To answer your question on the database, you can see the list of PES 2010 Smoke patch right here, a nice list of teams. :)

https://www.pessmokepatch.com/p/smoke-2010-teams.html
 
Well, PES 2010 PESEDIT (i always prefers the original version sorry i correct : original season) is pretty accurate in terms of structure : instead of adding a new hairstyle to the referee, they prefers to re-create real life tactics and focus on players, database. Even if graphically they didn't added tons of changes : it was more professional.
I miss them since 2014.

Tried VirtuaRed but same, i don't like their own rating system. Didn't got the chance to check Evo-web patch as my PC don't run PES 2021. Well, not interested by mods, especially gameplay mods i hate it / except speed for PES 6 as an example.

More an occasionnal "semi-retro" PC casual gamer : just put sometimes (more and more rarely, it's been a while i could say) my PC on my bigger screen (the second from my desk/work room, a bit smaller than the 4K on my living room) some emulator or some who don't run well on my Raspberry + Batocera for emulation : like PPSSSPP and Project64 as i got an USB N64 similar controller. I got a collection of all controllers reproduction 8bitdo and co haha it's dumb but i love it)

Also finished Dark Souls 1 with 60 fps patch/1080p and SF4 for example. Played also PES. But i stop to that era, not interested by mod i'm good with OF + Vanilla on my PS5. It's annoying to play on the place you're working, plenty of wired stuffs etc.

Edit: @millossobek : i see a lot of team VERY difficult to reproduce, like african ones. Especially there was less info on 2010, and if they used FM to handle to teams : there's a way with the editor (not Fm Scout) but those teams got randoms stats at each save like i said a thousand times lol. I prefers "standardisation" than "randomness" for stats, like PESEDIT did on smaller teams. So i suppose it can't be an accurate patch + the fact that starting 11 are melted with a Keeper instead of a DMF etc.
 
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millossobek said:
Hey bro, I wouldn't be able to tell you for sure, but I think up to 2013, perhaps PESEdit was the best patch, not sure about how accurate Smoke Patch is for earlier versions I just downloaded it because it was very easy to install.. But maybe I will give PESEdit a try for 2010.

But I can tell you for a fact that for PES 2017 onwards, Smoke patch is among the best patches. Very complete, no glitches, easy to install, and accurate. At least it is one of my favorites! :TU:

EDIT: To answer your question on the database, you can see the list of PES 2010 Smoke patch right here!

https://www.pessmokepatch.com/p/smoke-2010-teams.html
Click to expand...

Speaking of PS3 era, PESEdit is really good & accurate including the best 2010 experience. I always play PES 2010/11/12/13 with PESEdit (doing it almost for a decade) and for me it's the best choice. In other hand for PES 2008 and PES 2009 I prefer the World Patch (by @morodolarama1 the same creator of World patches for PES 3 & 4). Those "faithful to original" patches in my opinion are offering the best vanilla experience related to the original version, because are clean and doesn't change anything than improving the game with kits, badges, leagues/cups and rosters/tactics...
 
I didn't remember there were PESEDIT for 2008 and 2009 version (well 2009 is too shitty). In fact on PS3 era i tolerate only PES 2011, 2008 and a bit but i quickly close the game PES 2013.... And i will feel alone but i really like PES 2014 with the last gameplay patch correcting a lot of stuffs. No gameplay mods, only for PES 6 speed.

Edit: i kinda like PES 2010 too, fun to play but the double tap forward ruined the game for me at the time lol. So i hated it : a so hard feint to do so easy in game... And FIFA 10 bring a superb feature 360 degree motion, but "lob = goal" killed the game. It was in the core, we waited for a corrective patch all the year in vain.
Now, i use it more rarely as it's R1 that i double tap for run. So let's say PES 2010 is my 4th or 3rd favourite i forgot to mention to replay "retro" ;) . But even without it : my issue with that game is i found the CPU and scoring too easy, not going to the goal for that it's okay, but shooting and heading is too often on target.

But since i brought a PS2, even with a lower resolution i prefers to play on it on my big screen, even if it's 4:3 i don't like patch changing too much things > best counter-example is like PESEDIT didn't do unuseful stuffs : they tried to keept the more original Konami's game. It was more or less acceptable on that era, well to me it was "on the pitch + database first".
I don't give a damn about new soundtrack and all presentation stuffs : it's loosing time while you can make your teams more accurate.

Otherwhise i play FIFA 11 on my PS3 too as it's a different version but also FIFA 10 WC which is a version appart (2010-11 was a great year for me about football game, 2013-14 was too), and i recently retried FIFA 08 : i though it was much slower.

FIFA 14 but a bit more rarely, less than PES 14, i don't like that much offline FIFA even if it's one of my 2 favourite version as i ain't a big fan of Ignite "weightless" FIFA 16.
 
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millossobek said:
Guys, I need some help re-assigning PES 2010 PC kits. I downloaded smoke patch and Sheffield Wednesday has the wrong kit in game. I checked the files inside of their respective kitserver "uni" folders and the kits are correct in there, so the problem has to be incorrect map assignment..

View attachment 176064View attachment 176065

But I really know very little about doing this. If anyone can give me a hand, either through here or through a PM, that would be great.
Click to expand...
1662108028586.png

Hey guys, I installed PESEdit 3.4 Patch, which also had some missing kits for Championship teams, but when I downloaded 3.41 fix, I was finally able to find a solution for the full Championship kits, including Sheffield Wednesday, so I'm all set to go. Thanks to those who messaged me! :TU:
 
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vialli82 said:
my issue with that game is i found the CPU and scoring too easy, not going to the goal for that it's okay, but shooting and heading is too often on target.
Click to expand...
The easiest CPU I ever faced on PES.

The gameplay of this game needs a gameplay patch, there's one made by Yair or Jenkey but the IA stills sh*t
 
Madmac79 said:
A little OT question. Do you guys have a light video editing tool to merge clips and maybe put some basic things like fade in/out effects that you could suggest me? Now that it's summer Vegas Pro hottens my not so fresh pc at an unacceptable level even after all the tips I found online, I'll probably won't have a CPU by the end of august if I keep using it lol.
Click to expand...

Im using DaVinci Resolve. I only do light editing but you can do pro editing too and its free.
 
Random retro question of the day... Is there anything to be done about PES 2013's ridiculously high lines? I'm wondering if this was changed between EXE updates or if it's just not possible to "fix".

Just played a few games and even when changing the tactical setting for "defensive line" to 0/20 (i.e. as deep as it will go), the defenders stand in a line on the half-way line.

I love the defensive system - the upgrade from the older games' "press X to win ball". But with the defending being so manual and the defensive line so high, stopping the Superstar AI from making mincemeat of you is almost impossible.
 
Chris Davies said:
Random retro question of the day... Is there anything to be done about PES 2013's ridiculously high lines? I'm wondering if this was changed between EXE updates or if it's just not possible to "fix".

Just played a few games and even when changing the tactical setting for "defensive line" to 0/20 (i.e. as deep as it will go), the defenders stand in a line on the half-way line.

I love the defensive system - the upgrade from the older games' "press X to win ball". But with the defending being so manual and the defensive line so high, stopping the Superstar AI from making mincemeat of you is almost impossible.
Click to expand...
0/20 for defensive line. But how much for player support?

Cause i have a suspicion over the year, thats this value should work between individuals, IE RB is close to the RMF, in case he needs to support, but it hides other side effects, in short terms , if you have player support 20/20, it works as all out attack.

Also, did you fixed the position, in the gameplan board, with the cursor/hand, meaning, grab the player, and move him as deep as possible.
 
H_G said:
The easiest CPU I ever faced on PES.

The gameplay of this game needs a gameplay patch, there's one made by Yair or Jenkey but the IA stills sh*t
Click to expand...
Same to me, even if i manage to take a low ranked teams vs Madrid, i still got hard to loose.
That was the only way when a PES got a realtively easy CPU without challenge.

PES 2008 is not easy. They scores on Superstar some goals unexpected. If you change the "easiness" to do some stuff but not the CPU, you got a PES 2010 result i'm afraid, especially keeper. As every type of shoot were too often on target, long, even small shoots from the line of corner or in some very hard position... Like if they removed shoot technique and the power bar is by far less sensitive and slower to get higher in power.

Edit:
About PES 2013, what's annoying me is when you or the CPU got a counter attack, with a single player alone on the middle of the pitch. While he run, it's litteraly impossible to reach the guy with the ball if he don't get 68 in speed (+ he got enough stamina to make a targeted small shoot, the GK on VS is a small obstacle)
I scored/scores a lot of goal like this and get also some at every session. Now i just close the game, and don't force myself. And my biggest issue with that game isn't the CPU behaviour (well, more variety, more randomness... But less solidity in every area)
The defending system is oay, but some dribbling speed and agility is a real issue.

To me it's the most overrated from the "3" (even 2012, i retried there's less issues like that, and other i don't mention). PES 2011 is much more solid in everything, and constant, without any kind of streching programming to get something new. Also, the double tap to make a sliding tackle started on PES 2011 @Chris Davies
BUT pressing was still effective alone, lesser but enough, you loose time to get the ball or just don't get it if the ball owner got a good balance or good avoiding. Well balanced game on Attack/Mid/Def to me.
 
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vialli82 said:
Same to me, even if i manage to take a low ranked teams vs Madrid, i still got hard to loose.
Click to expand...
Last year I played ML with Atalanta (I didn't even continued playing)

At the first mid-season and without any transfert, my club was the top ranked in Serie A. Imagine if I bought some players to make the team stronger !

I don't know if you noticed it, the wide midfielder and defensive midfielder don't go to press the ball carrier. Lack of responsiveness, it's like " I'm watching you but I won't try to get the ball from you "
 
Yes the flank was an open bar, it was already a problem in some PS2 PES... But here, you can see they try to block you to cross, but that's all.
Edit: And as you say when they try, it's always a bit too late, like if their brain was in slow motion. Just remember it right now, i played it not so long ago.

No press. And it's the only game i'm good for scoring header lol, because it's just too easy : they enlarged the timing a lot that's the main problem.

And DMF wait for you to get in attack and retract them for, when you're on their side, try to get the ball.

Don't know if it's about all teams tactics like in actual PES "Alll out Defense" type, but by default if you don't change anything. The real/basis CPU behaviour
 
Just catching up on posts and I have to say this thread remains as epic as ever.

@Shales that goals compilation is pure PES perfection. Love it.

@vialli82 Love your insights, especially your break down of PS2 PES and the various graphical changes down the editions.

Me, I'm still very much a PES 5 guy but I've won all there is to win on that game so looking for a new ML challenge I went pack to PES 2008 (PS2 version). Plays beautifully but I agree, it's just too easy. Coming from PES 5 I was competing with the best with the defaults! Shame because there's a lot to like there, as @geeeeee will tell you.

Now? I've picked up my ML on one of the rarer PS2 PESes... PES 2011. This one was always tempting because of the ML with Champions League licence and added ML features. I found it a little frantic at first but now I've gone back to it, it's glorious!

Rock hard AI, enhanced graphics, nice ball physics, superb player individuality and nets almost as sexy as the PS3 version of PES 2011.
 

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