The Retro-PES Corner

@Theshy7 your title doesn't really fits with what we think about PES 2008 PS360PC, after a long recoil.
Already talked about it but it's a good "HD PS2" version.

PES6 is probably the most overrated from the franchise.
Bruce Grannec ( not anyone / ex PES 5 World champion and PES 6 World finalist, FIFA 08 World Cup champions also FIFA 12, 3rd on FIFA 13. Well a world champion from the Golden Era > check his wiki) even said after the PES to Efootball > "Goodbye PES. PES6 was the worst football game, but big thanks for creating PES 5 lol") and 2008 "next-gen" that one the most underrated. If you take the game alone, without the context of switching to a new gen : it's a great one, much more AI based than physicality. Just that visually, the news models types didn't matched that much with the animations.

The "next-gen" turn was failed : it doesn't make it a bad game at all, ask @Madmac79 about PES 2008. And Teamvision > Less physical, more tactical, a bit more length for sliding tackles to cut angles etc., Less "physical assistance" in defence.
I didn't liked it for that "less physical defence" : but once you understand the logic, let's say the physicality was less important, and assistance was more in cutting passes or positionning while the CPU shooting from your teammates etc.

Well the best without doubt from the PS2 HD such as of the 2008-09-10.
People would often said 2010, but rewatch vids and goals from tests and try.
Also i don't know if you got the same shit as me : the double forward tap i used for full run was fugly transformed in a a hard tricks pushing the ball with the opposite foot, just that killed my mood to continue to play...

when in the same time : first time ever with a real 360 degree on FIFA even if the lob bug killed the game and was never resolved... Sad or it would have been my favourite all time FIFA. But the feeling matters and was so good to play 360 degree)
 
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Guys i got a question more or less important:

-There's 2 option or more "section to create players (ML and National Teams).

The ML will make the players appearing on Master league, the second won't even if you suscribe or change a player from that section in a National team.

My question is :
-If you create a player, without team for example on the ML section : does the CPU could buy that player or it's only you which allowed to buy it? if they don't belong to ML or are they considered on the database like "Free agent" for the CPU too?

I remember in other PES (since i don't know, but on a future gen without 2 sections) that only you could've buy created players. Never checked if it's true or not on PES 2015 to 2021, but i think it come from even before : when there wasn't any separation.

I'm currently restructuring and finalising my OF V1, so i need to know if CPU buy players from that section, if i lost my time or not.
Thanks in advance for the answer retro mates!
I've redone the full Bundes from PES 2008. No idea if you can import at least stats on a PC version but that would be better than the old fucking stats made with FM without taking care of limitations and balance regarding multiple aspect.

It's not the perferction, but every stats are remade for created players not in PES, not only for Bundes. A lot of faces too (but for that, i don't think there's a way to import some CSV to the PC version lol)
 
The PES6 era is an enigma to me, will talk about the database first (i didn't played all versions)

-There was as usual WE10 with final 05/06 roster, then PES 6 with plenty of missing players.

-The sorted out a WE10 Europa League with like some transfers in more, but i can settle the date : Summers transfers still incomplete. Probably from 20 august transfers date or before.

-Next, the released the 18 January 2007 WE10LE > release date https://wiki.pcsx2.net/World_Soccer_Winning_Eleven_10:_Liveware_Evolution , new faces, no transfers for summer at all.

-And finally they did a JL2007CC with winter transfers (didn't checked release date but it was AFTER for sure January > Winter transfers) and the best version with zero doubt of the 3. But no new faces for European players... Limitations slots as there were too much Occidental faces and J-League always got all players with real faces?

Now about gameplay
@H_G not to contradict you, just my own feeling, or i got a bugged version lol but WE10LE (if that's you mean about PES6LE) was to me more like WE10 in terms of gameplay, WE10 on steroid. I didn't liked it : probably the faster PES i never played with PES 2009 no joke. Needs to retry it but i couldn't finish 3 games.

I tried some times ago, and it was so fast than it was unplayable, on my PS2. Even worst than PES 6.
I need to retry, but even tired i never got that feeling of super fast like that. The rest i didn't played as much to

But JL2007 is a PES 6 really enhanced : dynamic but with midfield battle and more accurate defence : probably my 3rd favourite version after PES 2008/JL2008 and PES5/WE9LE. Doesn't seems even slowed down, it's very dynamic but it makes the game fun in the same time as interceptions and defence are more effective by miles. And i played with big Europe teams like Chelsea/Juventus/Real, so it's not "because it's J-League teams"
 
I think indeed Pes 2008 for pc does have many redeeming qualities, CPU behaviour above all. It's probably something you notice more if you play it over an extended period of time in competitions (especially MLs) rather than a few friendlies here and there; you have CPU wasting time if it's winning (it even went on the corner flag more than once, something I couldn't remember happening in this game), diligently build up actions in a very composed and realistic way or attacking head down whenever the match requires it, dribbling very smartly and unpredictably (I find this HUGE compared with Ps2/old gen), marking in a tougher fashion your players. I've also had the impression of it "learning" my playstyle and being more efficient from a match to another but this could be more cause of teamwork, me having an awful team (mostly defaults) and so on so I wouldn't put my hand on fire.

That said I can also understand why somebody might be put off by player models (not the greatest fan either myself) or the general feel, also the fact defending is kinda different compared with Ps2. To me it's surely superior to the classic Pes 6 and probably in some sense also to Pes 2008 on ps2 (the Ps2 feel with his model, his defending, his general "environment" is probably better for most but I'm definitely seeing more AI patterns here on pc) but, again.. everyone has his tastes and it's generally why I also try to be as tactful as possible commenting other chapters.
 
Madmac79 said:
I think indeed Pes 2008 for pc does have many redeeming qualities, CPU behaviour above all. It's probably something you notice more if you play it over an extended period of time in competitions (especially MLs) rather than a few friendlies here and there; you have CPU wasting time if it's winning (it even went on the corner flag more than once, something I couldn't remember happening in this game), diligently build up actions in a very composed and realistic way or attacking head down whenever the match requires it, dribbling very smartly and unpredictably (I find this HUGE compared with Ps2/old gen), marking in a tougher fashion your players. I've also had the impression of it "learning" my playstyle and being more efficient from a match to another but this could be more cause of teamwork, me having an awful team (mostly defaults) and so on so I wouldn't put my hand on fire.

That said I can also understand why somebody might be put off by player models (not the greatest fan either myself) or the general feel, also the fact defending is kinda different compared with Ps2. To me it's surely superior to the classic Pes 6 and probably in some sense also to Pes 2008 on ps2 (the Ps2 feel with his model, his defending, his general "environment" is probably better for most but I'm definitely seeing more AI patterns here on pc) but, again.. everyone has his tastes and it's generally why I also try to be as tactful as possible commenting other chapters.
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Yes about AI it's better, vs CPU it feels differents, because Teamvision is working aswell on the short term on a simple match, but on the long term on ML or Competition mode. The CPU check your percentage of stuffs you're trying probably. But matches after matches it became clearer and the CPU may force you to play differently.

But PES 2008 PS2, with others gameplay tricks has pushed really PS2 to his limits.
There's no teamvision but the CPU is doing pretty unpredictable stuffs you won't see on previous PES... Not as much as on PC with Teamvision. But overally : in terms of movement controller in hands it's easier to do what you want as it's less rigid but the CPU isn't "overwhelmed" by your way to play not at all, and the contacts, aswell as ball physics seems more natural.

It's simplier, pressing if of course stronger to replace AI; that why some found it more funny/feels involved in the game. Perhaps there's a bit of Teamvision inspiration in that version, i mean about the usual pattern to block, but more like "overall" re-programmed. Sure there were a lot of discussion about Player vs CPU.

Same season normally same game, different approach. Long terms i don't know, both got a big re-playability.

To me it's there's no real winner if you take both games for what they are without carying of their past, and compare. But to me both are miles in front of PES 6. We made a league with a created Belgian League on PS2 so it was okay, but when i brought it on PC and discovered the game with averagely/good/good/top team, it was like another game. Thanks that i owned a 360 and they programmed it differently : certainely because it was the first in 16/9, all was slower and more physical, more "PES 5 real sequel". I already posted vids, it's obvious that the tone is different.
 
vialli82 said:
Yes about AI it's better, vs CPU it feels differents, because Teamvision is working aswell on the short term on a simple match, but on the long term on ML or Competition mode. The CPU check your percentage of stuffs you're trying probably. But matches after matches it became clearer and the CPU may force you to play differently.

But PES 2008 PS2, with others gameplay tricks has pushed really PS2 to his limits.
There's no teamvision but the CPU is doing pretty unpredictable stuffs you won't see on previous PES... Not as much as on PC with Teamvision. But overally : in terms of movement controller in hands it's easier to do what you want as it's less rigid, and the contacts, aswell as ball physics seems more natural.
It's simplier, pressing if of course stronger to replace AI; that why some found it more funny/feels involved in the game.

Same season normally same game, different approach.

To me it's there's no real winner if you take both games for what they are without carying of their past, and compare. But to me both are miles in front of PES 6. We made a league with a created Belgian League on PS2 so it was okay, but when i brought it on PC and discovered the game with averagely/good/good/top team, it was like another game. Thanks that i owned a 360 and they programmed it differently : certainely because it was the first in 16/9, all was slower and more physical, more "PES 5 real sequel". I already posted vids, it's obvious that the tone is different.
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Agree.

You probably articulated better than me the difference Ps2/Pc. Pes 2008 Ps2 it's still a great game, surely planets above Pes 6 and I don't want to put it down. The comparisons comes naturally but I agree it isn't really necessary.

It's funny about Pes 6 cause to some it has like greatest ever status, to me personally I can't stand it. It's not like it's a bad game (it still has Ps2 dna after all) and I'd surely enjoy under certain conditions, but among the giants that came before and after.. I'd probably pick it very last.

Yeah, 360 looks very different than pc/ps Pes 6. I've had the occasion to see a lot of it thanks to that youtuber doing a series I already talked about pages ago and the feel is really another thing. Hope I'll be able to try with an emulator it when I'll change pc.
 
Madmac79 said:
That said I can also understand why somebody might be put off by player models (not the greatest fan either myself) or the general feel
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They should have kept the model from PES 6 360, different from PS2 and from PES 2008. Just fit.
Also, even if some moves seems fast (like the R2 turn vs the goal) the overall ball speed when you took in consideration that it's Argentina against Brasil, is slower... Same as the player running to a recept a pass.

Madmac79 said:
It's funny about Pes 6 cause to some it has like greatest ever status, to me personally I can't stand it. It's not like it's a bad game (it still has Ps2 dna after all) and I'd surely enjoy under certain conditions, but among the giants that came before and after.. I'd probably pick it very last.
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Ahaha personnally i can't stand that game that's why i laughed. And i don't like gameplay mods. Decreasing the speed is the only thing i tolerate but even with that... On Wearepes / the old french forum i was on, fortunetaly we were more than 8-10 to own a 360. We did a very funny online French league.
While others complained about the "basic" game lol.
I understand why overall, and on tests, others people talk always about "PES 6" and nothing about the 5 or the others : because it was the more accessible version and the most action/football/arcade and i must admit it, from that time, the one with the most possibilities and player stats feeling... But big fans who only played PES just played because there was nothing else.

Not FIFA 22 or 23 level of hating, but when you came from WE9, then PES5 (we already complained about it in comparison lol, too open in the midfield) and then they released PES6... We were all pissed, saying that the game is becoming too arcade. I've replayed PES 1 and WE5FE and it took me 5 games more or less to score more than 2 goals lol.

About the 360 version it was sad in one thing missing due to the 360 very limited edit, even manually creating wasn't doable. But in the same time, Online was practically like offline thanks to Microsoft servers probably, it was the only PES i played so much online and we cared far less about Edit mode, just renaming was okay. It was the very debut of offline, without all the shit we got now : it was fresh.

So, Editing was just changing teams and player names or basic stuffs don't remember about fakes kits to mods but i don't think so, and players faces which was like PES 2008 > practically all "special"... Creating was very advanced (like PES 2008 to 2013 : a bit too much so impossible to share creations with + and - stuffs : they did good to change it) re-create a PES 2008-like facebuild mode for a game who will be sold 10 times less than the PS2 and PC version...

Just a reminder how obvious that game is different than PES 6 "basic" version + what player models i would like to see on PES 2008 PC/PS360... But graphically you can see from many stuffs than they were planning PES 2008, like faces. And body shapes looks like between the averagely big from PS2 and the slim model from PS3 :

 
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@vialli82 It may sound weird but I recorded it in mid March, it was uploaded and scheduled to release after PS2 Era PES videos. I don't remember exactly but I remember it was frustrating. I tried to explain in description back in the day as
Gameplay speed is broken. It's too fast and sometimes it gets even faster, inconsistent. I played the PS3 version on RPCS3 and PC version with two different patches. I can easily say that patched PES 2014 was way better than patched PES 2008.
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I remembered that game felt like it had random speed-ups (as opposite of slowdowns like when PC/Console can't keep the framerate)
 
There's more a technical problem it seems, i don't feel having it with kitserver and my Nvidia 3D stuff to control applications (and even replace completely the process).
Just to said, i got a very simple patch YNWA with not even Bundesliga / my second ex-aequo with Serie A favourite league to play with....
If someone got a Kitserver with VirtuaRed Deluxe installed and working, i tried everything :( following instructions and all without success if it's not too much asking to share, thanks guys.

As i struggle to install it for the 7th time since i've reinstalled. Didn't got that issue before at all.
I don't have the background (don't care) but no emblems / teams and leagues. Kits only, no faces, no new Stadiums i've installed, Kitserver installed/destinstalled/reinstalled multiple time.
And the others patch doesn't match with that one : like the one with Indonesian league instead of Bundes is the same than having nothing lol.
Plus they use stats from VirtuaRed for created players and their league is overrated.

Don't care if it's 08/09 season : i don't have that season as i don't really like PES 2009 and FIFA 09.

In fact, instead of working on PES 2008 PS2, firstly i wanted to work on that version and share an accurate option file for stats. Without being presumptuous : i know how to rate players better than VirtuaRed, let's says i'm PESEDIT 2012 and 2013 level (before it was to much modded and partner with PSD : but as all players where changed it doesn't matter. My goal was more to accord created players with Konami's database : not changing everything)

But i remember what you said @Theshy7 : on PS3 it was recurrent. Before and after the patch, yes the speed seemed a bit unstable.
I just remember that, but i was more on FIFA 08 at the time, and secondary PES 2008 PS3. I gotted it on PC too.
Not anymore, i truely believe it's like a bug than what the real game want to purpose as i replayed it and the tempo was regular, well i will retry and looking closely on your vids issues :)
 
It's a good game for online. Well we can play without Bundes it's not like it block you to have fun and an ML adventure.
H_G said:
Who knows maybe one day, Microsoft will include a good emulator of Xbox consoles with Windows system !
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It's a good game for online. Not really for offline as you can't modify nothing, neither transfers.
At least transfers and Emblems, kits secondary (just the colors and design)

Like i said one day, some game could be converted without emulator. That's the only way to modify that/all version i think.
But first : PS2 version, JL and WE version on PC completely compatible without bugs like on PCSX2.

Do you think an Xbox 360 Emulator would accept modified games without carrying? Serious question. I don't think personnally
 
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vialli82 said:
It's a good game for online. Well we can play without Bundes it's not like it block you to have fun and an ML adventure.

It's a good game for online. Not really for offline as you can't modify nothing, neither transfers.
At least transfers and Emblems, kits secondary (just the colors and design)

Like i said one day, some game could be converted without emulator. That's the only way to modify that/all version i think.
But first : PS2 version, JL and WE version on PC completely compatible without bugs like on PCSX2.

Do you think an Xbox 360 Emulator would accept modified games without carrying? Serious question. I don't think personnally
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Xenia is not good enough? I mean it also works on Android, never tried to mod any game on xbox 360 tbh but would be nice to have something new to play with
 
It's okay but not for a low end PC. And i will need to change my GFX card sooner or later, i got sometimes my pc blocking when there's too many things asking memory / with a lot of image and movement.

What's weird is the first time i tried it was perfect, zero issue. Very smooth. Don't know, pehraps again a Windows fucking update...
But the next time i got slowdowns and needed to decrease resolution etc. nothing more than a 360 can provide.
 
@Madmac79 good to hear you are enjoying 2008 pc version. I have never played it myself but watching your ML videos makes me think it is a better graphic version than the ps2 one but with the same gameplay (which is a good thing) The time wasting thing happens on ps2 too where the cpu just goes to the corner flag, great stuff. :)

@vialli82 the teamvision i feel is also in the ps2 version of 2008. I have played games where in the first half i can continue to attack down the flanks but in the second half the cpu defends the flanks better.

Absolutely love this game! 😊
 
vialli82 said:
It's okay but not for a low end PC. And i will need to change my GFX card sooner or later, i got sometimes my pc blocking when there's too many things asking memory / with a lot of image and movement.

What's weird is the first time i tried it was perfect, zero issue. Very smooth. Don't know, pehraps again a Windows fucking update...
But the next time i got slowdowns and needed to decrease resolution etc. nothing more than a 360 can provide.
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Probably was the version? Sometimes that affects quite a lot on emulators, lastest pcsx2 versions works amazing nowadays i remember like 5 or 6 years ago you needed a really good pc to play older ps2 games, lucky me, i have a ps2 since im 12 and there's a whole big community that helps that, maybe give it a other try to xenia, recenty versions works pretty good
 
Hey guys, I need your help.

im trying to expand my Winning Eleven library.
Below there is a list of all titles (the ones I own are marked in green). I’m not sure if the list is correct.
C69189F4-AF06-4622-B911-22C3CD19DBCD.jpeg
second image shows the games I want to buy second hand. Are those official titles?!
5ECCBE42-7CCD-40F7-9B0B-D8BC69DC7483.jpeg
because the titles I own just had numbers (till 9). I’m a bit confused now.
 
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PRO_TOO said:
Hey guys, I need your help.

im trying to expand my Winning Eleven library.
Below there is a list of all titles (the ones I own are marked in green). I’m not sure if the list is correct.
View attachment 175016
second image shows the games I want to buy second hand. Are those official titles?!
View attachment 175017
because the titles I own just had numbers (till 9). Does 10 equal 2010 like in the image?!
Click to expand...

Welcome to join the party of collecting of WEPES. :DD

No offensive, but the list is far from complete, or you are mainly missing some "final evolution" for Japanese version if you just want to care about the Japanese. (There are actually some different regions for the whole PES history, including European, American, Middle East, Japanese, Korean, "Hong Kong, Taiwan, Southeast Asian", China)

Here is something I can spot from my memory (I can do a complete check if you want):
* There is no Winning Eleven 11, 12, 13 in Japan. It's 2008, 2009 and 2010 respectively.
* While PES 6 on PS2/PSP is most equivalent and named as "Winning Eleven 10" in Japan, PES 6 on Xbox 360 is named as "Winning Eleven X".
* Just in case you want the full name of the game title - "Winning Eleven" is officially named as "World Soccer Winning Eleven" until 2015.
* Winning Eleven 3, 5, 6, 7, 8 had the "final evolution" (3: Final ver; 5 & 6: Final Evolution; 7: International; 8: Liveware Evolution
* Winning Eleven 2010 and 2014 has a "Samurai Blue" version, released for the World Cup at that year.

The games in the second image are the official cover in Japan (there is "CERO A" rating in the bottom left corner).
 
SiuMing said:
Welcome to join the party of collecting of WEPES. :DD

No offensive, but the list is far from complete, or you are mainly missing some "final evolution" for Japanese version if you just want to care about the Japanese. (There are actually some different regions for the whole PES history, including European, American, Middle East, Japanese, Korean, "Hong Kong, Taiwan, Southeast Asian", China)

Here is something I can spot from my memory (I can do a complete check if you want):
* There is no Winning Eleven 11, 12, 13 in Japan. It's 2008, 2009 and 2010 respectively.
* While PES 6 on PS2/PSP is most equivalent and named as "Winning Eleven 10" in Japan, PES 6 on Xbox 360 is named as "Winning Eleven X".
* Just in case you want the full name of the game title - "Winning Eleven" is officially named as "World Soccer Winning Eleven" until 2015.
* Winning Eleven 3, 5, 6, 7, 8 had the "final evolution" (3: Final ver; 5 & 6: Final Evolution; 7: International; 8: Liveware Evolution
* Winning Eleven 2010 and 2014 has a "Samurai Blue" version, released for the World Cup at that year.

The games in the second image are the official cover in Japan (there is "CERO A" rating in the bottom left corner).
Click to expand...
No offense taken! 😂
it’s just a little nerdy side project. Nothing major. 😊

thank you for the detailed reply. 👏

so I’ll get me those 4 games (image above) and expand my collection. 👍 I’m looking mainly for the original Asien versions… PES from Europe are easier to get anyway… I don’t have time stress or alike. I’m just collecting cheap along the way.
20 bucks for those 4 games above is ok, I guess.

edit: so I edited my list. Should be good now. Right?!
631E4CC9-7126-4965-AD34-546FB6044C23.jpeg
 
PRO_TOO said:
No offense taken! 😂
it’s just a little nerdy side project. Nothing major. 😊

thank you for the detailed reply. 👏

so I’ll get me those 4 games (image above) and expand my collection. 👍 I’m looking mainly for the original Asien versions… PES from Europe are easier to get anyway… I don’t have time stress or alike. I’m just collecting cheap along the way.
20 bucks for those 4 games above is ok, I guess.

edit: so I edited my list. Should be good now. Right?!
View attachment 175029
Click to expand...
Looks good :))
 
So when it's about Japanese/ Korean commentary, besides mentioning his name when he shoot / receive a pass, the commentator mentions player's name when he receives a yellow / red card ; he's substituted ; injured and I think goalkeepers are also mentioned by name when they receive a pass. He also mentions some players name after the kick-off.

And when it's about a "foreign" commentator, he only mentions the name when the player shoot / receive the a pass.

Why ?
 
Just to let you know guys, I just bought the 4 titles mentioned above. 😊

I made the seller an offer and have to pay 17 euro incl. shipping now (that’s 20% off)! 👏 I’ll let you know when they have arrived.

looking forward to browse the booklets that come with those games.

thanks for the help, @SiuMing !
 
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H_G said:
So when it's about Japanese/ Korean commentary, besides mentioning his name when he shoot / receive a pass, the commentator mentions player's name when he receives a yellow / red card ; he's substituted ; injured and I think goalkeepers are also mentioned by name when they receive a pass. He also mentions some players name after the kick-off.

And when it's about a "foreign" commentator, he only mentions the name when the player shoot / receive the a pass.

Why ?
Click to expand...

on what game?
 
PRO_TOO said:
Hey guys, I need your help.

im trying to expand my Winning Eleven library.
Below there is a list of all titles (the ones I own are marked in green). I’m not sure if the list is correct.
View attachment 175016
second image shows the games I want to buy second hand. Are those official titles?!
View attachment 175017
because the titles I own just had numbers (till 9). I’m a bit confused now.
Click to expand...
They are some really classy box arts. It's a shame how low we've gotten with the contemporary football games regarding presentation in this area
 
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