The Retro-PES Corner

Theshy7 said:
I played it with this patch, Winning Eleven 5 - Final Evolution Rh4ps0dY English Patch v 1.0
I also made a thread to gather ROMs like official final evolution versions, translations or modded ones here, Most recommended ROMs for PES games
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Now there's a name I'd forgotten all about... Rh4ps0dY.

That's brought back a flood of memories... Getting WE6FE from a computer fair in Chester, handing my PS2 over to be chipped by a dodgy looking bloke with a stall there and then picking it up from a pub car park in Manchester. Then spending the next few days absolutely transfixed, repeating "how can they ever improve on this"...

Then teaching myself to patch games with Rh4ps0dy's translations, and later @fernando's translations, thanks to the lovely folk of Evo-Web.

Really happy memories.
 
I remember also how many lens those Jap version got killed.
Brough at least 3 PS2. The guy who installed the modchip resolved some issues... But those cheap DVD were too strong, and always won on the final.

I got no idea if FreeMcBoot existed at the time, but it works pretty well even with the USB port, no choice for PS2 Slim as PS2 HDD was only for the first version.
But you need at least an HDD for not having slowdown in cutscenes etc., i tried with a simple usb Key it's awful. But thanks Aliexpress.
 
Otherwise in terms of translation the final boss was Fernando's. Then Rapsody was like Goro, great translator too.
On italy it was Wendetta version, the first version were just a translation the next step, always "2.0" was often a full patch (with kits and all, transfers when needed)
 
Do you remember him doing it on ISS Pro Evo? or PES 1? I don't remember it... But it's just my memory i try to remember but i can't picture him, i don't state anything.
But i'm with you and suppose you're right as it's the most "special" celebration for that time, even on real football his celebration was apart.
 
Theshy7 said:
I played it with this patch, Winning Eleven 5 - Final Evolution Rh4ps0dY English Patch v 1.0
I also made a thread to gather ROMs like official final evolution versions, translations or modded ones here, Most recommended ROMs for PES games
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Funnily enough, I found myself playing a few games of WE5FE (with said translation) over the weekend. Switched on my Series S for an unrelated matter and thought, while I was at it, that I'd play a random game I've got stored on it. WE5FE was that game and I got a bit carried away!
 
Compared to the next editions of PES, the database team (when working on the winter database of PES2009-2010) didn't focus only on updating the transfers and rosters, but also updating players stats. So you can have an idea about players' rating in the next edition.

For e.g. take a look on Gourcuff's stats on the winter database compared to the original one of PES 2009. There's other examples; like Pedro (PES 2010)

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But on PES2011-2013 I was disappointed, the database team was lazy, they chose to update (few) players' stats with the second database (October). I recall that Pogba's stats (PES 2013) were only updated in October, Ozil's stats (PES 2011) were slightly updated in October compared to his stats in PES 2010.
The winter database wasn't anymore for updating players stats.

The best example is Falcao, who had an excellent season in 2010-2011 season, but he had the same stats on both original and winter database of PES 2011. His stats are the same in PES 2010.

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Another example, De Gea, who- on PES 2011- had the same stats on PES 2010, despite the fact he played very well during 2010-2011 season which led Man U to buy him

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Other examples: Di Maria, Wilshere
 

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Yeah PES 2011 to 2013 was an issue for them : much more players to rate 1 with Libertadores 2 (after) with Sudamericana /even with some teams were practically similar with one or two player removed etc.

So they "missed" the spot to rate others players i suppose, when they were 6-7 alone in Japan to rate players lol.
Fortunately they fired almost 3/4 of their data editors on the Winter from PES 2020 (my mate became Senior Editor/Serie A chief) and he was good for ratings and maths.

They kept the one who did a good job in the past... But those guys got three time much work as i remember he said to me. Face-makers > same : all those they considered as bad face-makers were "out" or not renewed their contract.

If you remember on PES 2015, on PESFAN they took everyone who asked, until they were complete. Even 14 years old guys... Worst database in PES history is the 2015 to me. They gradually removed all the errors. Now, i could say by checking PES 2021 Mobile > based on Efootball for OVR that all errors i mentionned in an old post has disappeared. PES 21-22 Mobile was equal to Efootball with the 40-99 range.
I hate the 40-90 range... Just for the sake of dream team upgrade.

One simple thing: they retouched very very rarely the players wrong foot acc/freq but practically never their Injury stats. Now i saw plenty of those players who got A to B Injury (untouched since PES 20XX PS2) and 2/2 instead of 3/3 etc.
As, for me, i recopied manually stats for at least 20 teams. But on PS4-PS5 it's way too much time taking. I would like a tool for copy paste stats from a PC Edit.bin...
 
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Now to stay On Thread, PS2 wasn't supporting DLC, no HDD and less online Friendly. For example if you want to see, not all teams but all league with stats updated to their season for PES 2008 : check JL2008CC. But there's a lot of Others European teams missing unfortunately. And i learned one thing no so long:
They added Helsingborgs just because there was Henrik Larsson on the team, and they got some partner in Sweden which apprecied that move, that's probably why there's 4 Swedish club in PES 2008 and i think in 2009 too (Helsingborgs isn't there but another team)

@grafyfoxcr7 no idea, but i tried PES 2008 ps2 and 2014 and there's new lines, topics, system of popularity....
I've read that PES 2011 PC got a good ML. With PESEdit Patch and D2 it would be even greater. To me it's a good game (subjective)

Well before searching a good ML it would be better to choose a version you can play a lot of games without being annoyed, or frustrated.
 
@H_G i didn't took a look but i see you own PES 2009 with the latest DLC (aswell as the first)
I read somewhere that "PES 2009 1.4 (so the last they release) that teams are totally up to date.

On J-League they're often all updated, even some B team players added. I got hard the first time i searched a translation patch for JL2009cc, then i found one completely in Brasilian i think (perhaps spanish i didn't check that much lol). Unfortunately, didn't found any english available.

So if you want to compare with the PC version, and for the others, here's the pretty rare patch:

J-League Winning eleven 2009 Clubs Championship :
Link > https://www.mediafire.com/file/cj9ytg7rfhrvrz6/JL+WE2009+CC+(J+Bra)+Wide.iso/file

Important note : it's conceived to be played in Widescreen (16/9). Got another one like that, Brasilian too (JL2008 i think, don't remember).
It's good for emulation but as i play on PS2, there's already enough aliasing like that lol.



Another one for @Theshy7 collection, as you got the English version only with Menu not translated :
There's also a spanish version of PS1 WE3 Final Version (ISS 98 Jap final) on Spanish with every menu translated, teams and all.
I found that patch better for advanced formation etc. less confusing. Well Spanish/French/Italian are latin language to me it's easier to understand by far, i don't know if for you it looks like chinese lol. That patch is hard to found tons of fakes links so i'll upload it.


Note : 2 adjustments to do from the patchmakers the original vid he mentionned or says he did.
A brief translation for what you got to change. There's also some weird choice of names.
I changed a lot on my save, but quickly, noticed that there's 1 character in less than on EU and US version.

To change (or what the patcher mentionned as errors)
Number 18 from Wales is "Kit Symons"
Number 7 from Wales is "Ceri Hughes"

WE3 Final Version (Spanish translated)
> Link https://www.mediafire.com/file/n7s56i1qihhlbso/Winning+Eleven+3+Final+Version+[Español].rar/file
 
vialli82 said:
Now to stay On Thread, PS2 wasn't supporting DLC, no HDD and less online Friendly. For example if you want to see, not all teams but all league with stats updated to their season for PES 2008 : check JL2008CC. But there's a lot of Others European teams missing unfortunately. And i learned one thing no so long:
They added Helsingborgs just because there was Henrik Larsson on the team, and they got some partner in Sweden which apprecied that move, that's probably why there's 4 Swedish club in PES 2008 and i think in 2009 too (Helsingborgs isn't there but another team)

@grafyfoxcr7 no idea, but i tried PES 2008 ps2 and 2014 and there's new lines, topics, system of popularity....
I've read that PES 2011 PC got a good ML. With PESEdit Patch and D2 it would be even greater. To me it's a good game (subjective)

Well before searching a good ML it would be better to choose a version you can play a lot of games without being annoyed, or frustrated.
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Fair enough. How's PES 2017 ? Used to be my last PES before 2020.
 
vialli82 said:
@H_G i didn't took a look but i see you own PES 2009 with the latest DLC (aswell as the first)
I read somewhere that "PES 2009 1.4 (so the last they release) that teams are totally up to date.

On J-League they're often all updated, even some B team players added.
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The WE 2009 CC have few players stats updated compared to the last DLC of PES 2009 (the same for PES 2010 and WE JL 2010)

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Sorry for my quote : i've read that "PES 2009 are not totally updated" saying after DLC there was some missing transfers etc.
I checked just some players who should have signed on PES 2009, don't remember who : they weren't present.
Don't remember exactly who.
But thanks, you're confirming that J-League version are like the final DLC from 2009 and 2010 (probably no more issues the 2011 as there wasn't multiple versions, only DLC / Not for 2011 for some reason already explained but for Winning eleven only 2012-13-14)

And i checked the WE 2014 Aoki on PSP/3DS were the same in fact. Just the 2 J-League on 3DS like on PS3 (not present in PSP... No idea if you can get DLC on PSP i ain't familiar at all with that Portable.
 
vialli82 said:
But thanks, you're confirming that J-League version are like the final DLC from 2009 and 2010
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I wonder about the period which players were rated for the WE J-L games.

The difference between players rating in the last winter DLC of PES 2009/2010 and the WE J-L games means - maybe - that the period isn't the same
 
vialli82 said:
Yeah PES 2011 to 2013 was an issue for them : much more players to rate 1 with Libertadores 2 (after) with Sudamericana /even with some teams were practically similar with one or two player removed etc.
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That's unfortunate.

vialli82 said:
Fortunately they fired almost 3/4 of their data editors on the Winter from PES 2020 (my mate became Senior Editor/Serie A chief) and he was good for ratings and maths.
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Do u have an idea, how they rate players ?

Unfortunately, there's no interview with a member of the data editors of any edition.
 
dunadan said:
I was playing WE6LE (on PS2) most of last night and scored several goals with him but didn't see the celebration. Not sure if its only in the GC version?
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Probably there's no first player to have his own celebration.
But for sure there's an edition which included for the first time players celebrations
 
It's different before and after PES 2015. Even after 2015 they changed some stuffs during the way to rate players.
In very brief for way to rate :
Data editors got a range regarding overall to follow :
From B to D > same as Balls colors in Myclub : 94-90 was B, 89-85 was C etc., then they added 40-59 for PES 2019 version if i remember.
And there's limitations based on Positions, Height, weight and Special Skills.

I mentioned the two most important with exactitude (Height regarding Header and Weight > Physical Contact or old Balance) any old Data Editor may confirm it. @Shales for example ;) but even the guy i was working with, as he was good and rated players by logic, practically never got another mention of too much or too low, only asking to decrease or increase a player as his OVR was too high or too low rated. But i asked him to search as i needed it for creations.

One example you can check : not a single player got above "70" in physical contact or balance and 80 kg.
And height, Not a single player (i found an error btw lol) can't have above 70 in Header.
Otherwise it's like between 60 and 90, 60 and 80, 50 and 80 etc. BUT just for those two stats.

Now the way they rated players from PS2 era as you're asking @H_G ... I searched from 04 to 2010 counting and took note about + and - 10 years ago.
Some got + and -, depends if they wanted to keep the same count for ML... Some where just increased or decreased. But it was often 1 increasing between 18 and 25 years old 2. Changing depending to the player form from 25 to 29 years old, or keeping the same stats 3. Decreasing after 30 years old.
With rare exception like the "Growth type Late or Late/Standing") like Luca Toni.

BUT one thing is sure : players that didn't played a game wasn't rated : because they watched games to rate players. Seabass saying that for conceiving their game they watched a lot of game. So i suppose stats were self-made by PES team...

It seem that the old way to rate was more complicated. Probably a bit too much. But remember that stats are non-objective, hard to judge and balance, and from even 60 to 70 for example i considers it's practically a random distribution for less known players.

But i suppose, didn't searched, that at least the minimum for Balance was probably linked to Height (weight didn't have impact in the game, but height... There were tests, and a small player with a high balance will more rarely fall than a Tall player with an high "Barycentre")
Also Mental and Teamwork regarding age, often between 60 and 69 and for higher overall player 70 and 75 / very rare.
 
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I tried to reinstall PES 2008 with VirtuaRed patch 08-09. But i got NOTHING more than the kits, and the O.F. of course. No new stadiums, nothing.
Litterally tried 3 times, and the files are like they should be. Kitserver loaded etc
I suppose it's a matter of ISO type. The first i got given me at least Emblems for teams and logos (but no musics, nothing like on the VirtuaRed patch)

@Marlon Anthony i saw on a tweet shared here that you were playing with everything installed. Well i don't connect no more on Twitter (I receive kind message from my passage on PESUniverse as some are sad that i left, it warms my hart but FTM i don't want to connect and see the same Efootball repetitive thing. Tired of it)

Could you told me what version of PES 2008 you got, perhaps also what "crack"? I installed all in the right order. You can PM me if possible (i won't dare asking an upload lol)
Don't have a clue : if i set stadium from VR patch on Stadiums kitserver, it should work no? I just don't get it.

Thanks in advance mate / or if someone may help me. I don't like PES 2009, but having PES 2008 with 2009 starting season is okay (as i'm editing the 2008 PS2 for the summer edition 07-08 as all patch are with winter transfers (well not a super problem) but i try to restore many PES with Summer transfers as it's pretty rare and more logic and realistic for ML database...
The O.F. will be coming sooner or later ;)
All transfers are done, i'm building Bundes based on hidden NT stats + another OF for basis and my own way to rate players.
 
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If there's one thing that konami nailed with modern pes games is passing and shooting. They are much much better than these old ps2 era. I never realized how awful it is after playing some old pes games.
 
It's just a complete different way to play. It's so awful that i came back to play those game instead of Efootball or whatever else lol.

I'll explain:
Before, it was more as a chess or strategy game, choosing the good passer etc.
I'm 100% sure they could have done power bar for passes, but they don't. For the sake of strategy, players ability etc. and a lot of interceptions.
The ball was sometimes completely Rugby shooted just because you wasn't in the timing (important, i talk about it)

I love to found the good passer, like De La Pena, or more Rui Costa and Zidane to make the killer through pass. But it didn't worked that easily. Just that when you've got the good timing, it's face to goal assured with Inzaghi, or Morientes which was very dependant to those type of players.
Older PES was more based on your abitility to found the timing and good position, more than purely "gameplay" and "Freedom" in terms of passing and shooting : let's say just Kicking the ball as it's the same system.

I always see it like that. If it was that awful, the success would have stop after the first ISS Pro. But they did the same system for 10 years (97-2007) and as i'm a bit older, i can told you that it's what we saw stuffs. It was okay for those previous gen to build the system like that. Then people wanted more freedom with the possibility that the PS360 offered.

Now, it's a bit more involved in your own way to make pass with not too strong or too weak (also even on PA1, the direction affect it)

Let's say it's completely different approach, less strategic.
But thanks that the PES after that keept that feeling of strategy when you play assisted / and it's not even that assisted like on Fifa, but i feel more the strategy/stats passing.
Remember also that the bar on PES 11-13 wasn't really that good in terms of feeling, as there was a kind of conflict with the passing speed stats lol. At least they tried, and it wasn't that bad after having retried. The 11 is pretty good, the 2 others... Looks like they pushed and streched the 1.5 engine in every way possible.
 
The special abilities I wish the preserved them or include them as " Player Skills "

- Reaction / Marauding
- 1v1 scoring
- Lines
- D-Line
- Covering
 
Line is kinda Opportunity so Goal Poacher : Goal Poacher is playing with lines. Post player > Target Man. Centre + Scoring > Goal Poacher.


The D-line i totally agree, the 1v1 scoring mmhhh there's already finishing, lob skill, i don't know what to think, but yes it kinda different when a player is all alone in front of goal : some don't care, some panic so yes, something like that. "Cold Blood" would be a cool add, and may differs from a CF to a DF for example.
Reaction is the positionning on attack quicker when there's a counter from your team, especially for for the Winger, and some CF. I don't know if it's that much important with the new strategy, it's kinda automatic.

Covering, it's pretty sad because it's one of the 4 hidden stats that data editor can't touch (believe me or not) like "Passing/Kicking Technique" which involve
I need to check on a very old Whatsapp discussion... But some were pretty well found.
I think for created player it changes automatically like the conversion.

But there's a lot of others thing we can rate now, we couldn't before : Agression, Tackling (Ball Winning), Balance separated from physical contact (lower vs upper body) Tight possession is different from Dribble Accuracy i already talked about.
And also the tons of shoots, or playing style, are not bad and wasn't there before. Or stuff like "Captaincy", "Fighting spirit" but also Germanship.
Also all the shooting type (dipping, rising) and long shoot : the new one is for long straight shoot, the older is for placing shoot from long distance.

And movement : Incisive run, Straight run/Speeding bullet, confronting with Mazing run, there wasn't as much Long Range pass system before as there's now... Let's say there's pretty good stuffs right now too. I think with "Defensive workrate" and the others new skills on Efootball : we got enough.

Balance is also influing on agility : but it depends the player height and acceleration.

The one who got more deserved stats, is the keeper, and it was time. They needed more stats for their weaknesses and strenghtnesses. Only 2... It's not serious.
 
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Marlon Anthony said:
Well I believe @Shales was a data editor for the PS4 games?

Maybe he can give a short insight into how they'd determine players stats?
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I won’t lift the lid on the logic/strategy that was used among the UK data team. Konami are quite protective about it and I respect that. But no problem at all with being called out, Marlon.

I worked on 2017 to 2020 and I’ll say that each year the quality and the integrity kept improving. To the point where Konami took all the data on ‘in house’ to improve the consistency, rather than having a number of contractors do it.

As you can imagine, while OVR ratings exist, there has to be some control on ‘player x’ being rated higher than ‘player y’. So therefore it was often a battle to balance the individual ratings to fit the OVR algorithm.

I know this isn’t the answer you were looking for 😬
 
vialli82 said:
@Marlon Anthony i saw on a tweet shared here that you were playing with everything installed. Well i don't connect no more on Twitter (I receive kind message from my passage on PESUniverse as some are sad that i left, it warms my hart but FTM i don't want to connect and see the same Efootball repetitive thing. Tired of it)

Could you told me what version of PES 2008 you got, perhaps also what "crack"? I installed all in the right order. You can PM me if possible (i won't dare asking an upload lol)
Don't have a clue : if i set stadium from VR patch on Stadiums kitserver, it should work no? I just don't get it.
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Hey, Here's the link to a clean PES 2008 ISO courtesy of @Shales


As there's already a bunch of retro PES ISO's on the forum that can no longer be purchased anywhere I doubt it would be an issue but if it is, I'll remove it.

I would also recommend using @morodolarama1 World Patch for PES 2008 if you have issues with the VRED patch, This one keeps most of the games original assets and menu's etc as the VR patch has all kinds of menu and language issues.

https://evoweb.uk/threads/pes-2008-world-patch-2007-08-2008.90788/

That post includes a crack for it too, should work if you follow the instructions , let me know if you have any more issues.
 
Shales said:
I won’t lift the lid on the logic/strategy that was used among the UK data team. Konami are quite protective about it and I respect that. But no problem at all with being called out, Marlon.

I worked on 2017 to 2020 and I’ll say that each year the quality and the integrity kept improving. To the point where Konami took all the data on ‘in house’ to improve the consistency, rather than having a number of contractors do it.

As you can imagine, while OVR ratings exist, there has to be some control on ‘player x’ being rated higher than ‘player y’. So therefore it was often a battle to balance the individual ratings to fit the OVR algorithm.

I know this isn’t the answer you were looking for 😬
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Thanks for the insight. I am curious though and maybe you can't answer - But was there any instances of politics regarding OVR's and stats - For instance cover stars and ambassador players being boosted?

I heard a similar ethos took place in the FIFA games regarding those FUT cards and players bragging about their OVR's and players who were cover stars or used in certain promotional materials being higher than their real life form dictated.
 
Marlon Anthony said:
Thanks for the insight. I am curious though and maybe you can't answer - But was there any instances of politics regarding OVR's and stats - For instance cover stars and ambassador players being boosted?

I heard a similar ethos took place in the FIFA games regarding those FUT cards and players bragging about their OVR's and players who were cover stars or used in certain promotional materials being higher than their real life form dictated.
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No, I don’t recall anything like that. Nothing was ever ‘locked in’ as far as I can remember. There were a few conflicts at times with the editors. Especially if an editor was in charge of a team they supported. I can think of a few times where certain teams were a tad too strong.
 
My friend told me that the other was in charge of Real. As you know, big names don't got an Ranking OVR but a strict OVR (93, 94, 90 etc.)
And his CR7 stats were different for example that the one he made, same for Modric : Konami also retouch stats in intern + you got some kind of "reunion" regarding stats.

@Shales i thrust you about the OVR not influed by the "guy in the cover". Those guys don't care to be the strongest in the game lol. Messi got an higher value even when he was on Fifa cover so...

Well i know how you have to work (with that contract i don't want to cause you issue but i don't have one so...) but you got to rate by Ranking like i explained above, imposed by Konami. Sometimes they left like this, sometimes they correct some stuffs.
And there's also 4 stats + the Growth type which is hidden from us, and you can't change neither.

At least, they could have leaved us the Growth type to rate AT LEAST ffs : it's kinda important when you recreate Bundes. Same as the opportunity to gives a certain price like they did with real players with Transfermarkt : on one side you got the old system to gives value (Stats + Reputation which give some extra points) which i found personally okay for the game...

BUT mixed with the fixed values on many players from Transfermarkt, players that would have normally 950.000 with their stats on ML but got 600.000 (example) as it's their value when they rated him on TM. Even if it change with progression and time on ML. And very often the created players got higher value.
I hate it. That mix of +- real estimated value and Konami's system of price.

It should be affected only for Myclub, not ML. As a console player, no way to change it... Only reputation and attitude hidden on Teds files.
 
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