The Retro-PES Corner

[H_G]

>PES 2008 is simple, -1 shooting power vs all previous version.

Well not all the players, for e.g. Eto'o had 90 in PES 6 and PES2008

 

[H_G]

Even if I don't like FIFA gameplay, I must say I really like the game plan of this game

 

[millossobek]

My two cents

Having played PC versions PES 2011 and 2013 extensively, I also must agree with what some of you said here: I much prefer PES 2011.

I heard a lot of good things about PES 2013 and it has great patches, so I played a lot of it, a full Master League season in fact, but I found the ball physics to be weird and the game too geared towards counterattacks.. Jenkey's gameplay tool improved it a bit, but after trying to enjoy it for a long time, I decided it's not the edition for me.

PES 2011 on the other hand, I find it to be very enjoyable and well balanced, not only the gameplay but the presentation to me is so much smoother and better overall. It's my favorite PES of that generation.

Then again, many many people sing praises about PES 2013, in South America it is still a very well-loved game, so to each their own.

Out of the newer PES though, like I mentioned before, my favorite out of the box is PES 2017. PES 2021 is very fun with some of the gameplay patches available here which are great and improve the gameplay a lot!

But if you're looking for something that resembles the old-school titles, PES 2017 is my recommendation. And also PES 2011 for the full experience it offers!

 

[slamsoze]

Even if I don't like FIFA gameplay, I must say I really like the game plan of this game

I was reading for years, in Greek forums, that FIFA 2011 for PC was the PES 5 of FIFAs.

To be honest i am confused, cause I've played only the PC version, zero clue what's next-current-old gen ports in FIFAs. But i liked it a lot , for FIFA. Only the speed is a little bit fast for my taste, but it is(FIFA 11) one of my most favourite FIFA.

Keep in mind that I've played 98-99-2000 PC, 2001 & 2002 WC on PS1, 04-05-06-10 all on PC, then 2011 PC, and then 2016 to 2020 for PS4.

So i am missing some key parts, like 2014-2015, 2008 for PC???, but from what I've played, 2011 is one of my most favourite, i will avoid to say one of the best..

_________________________________

Now on PES 2011-2012-2013, every time i read someone say, the game is too easy, i want to lay down in embryonic position,and start crying.

Cause for me it is, professional decent and easy after couple of seasons, and TopPlayer in yhe beginning i am a punching bag for the CPU.

My ratio is, for every match that i get a decent performance and a win or draw, i have 3 other matches, that the AI is boxing my face.

I honestly wonder what am i doing wrong. From the obvious flaws of mine, and the #1 reason i dont fall in love with those games gameplay wise, is the really tiny player models, that don't help me feel the physicality and the individuallity of those games.

At least in the camera settings i play, broadcasting,wide ,or pitch side latter in 12-13.

PS: Also, how in the name of god is easy to mastet 2011, having the strangest shooting system in any PES i remember, only ISS2000 N64, has similar shooting mechanisms, that you can balloon a shoot out of nowhere...

And the PK system, which is the wierdest ever in amy football game..Can anyome here score 5/5 PKs in next gen 2011?? Or at least all 5 hit inside the goalpost area?

 

[Hatrickhero]

The main thing about older pes, they are not as physical pes 2021, which shouldn t be anw, pes 2021 is way too physical..it s taking the fun out og the game on higher difficulties

 

[H_G]

I was reading for years, in Greek forums, that FIFA 2011 for PC was the PES 5 of FIFAs.

I mean since FIFA 11 of course, I don't like either the gameplay or the game plan of the older games

 

[francesco totti]

I'm a bit older and have played all PES.
(ok, not all. from pes1 to pes17, after that unfortunately only scrap came).
Conclusion :
for me pes4 on the ps2 is the best game of the series.
I rediscovered love for myself about 5 years ago.
The game was a bit too fast for me, so I gradually slowed down all players.

the feeling of the game is now just a poem for me.

I just wanted to write that.
greeting

 

[slamsoze]

The main thing about older pes, they are not as physical pes 2021, which shouldn t be anw, pes 2021 is way too physical..it s taking the fun out og the game on higher difficulties

For the modern physicality,it is as you say. 2019 and much more 2020 and 2021, is like the gameplay traps you inside physicality, making the input looking in mud, or less responsive, or unresponsive at all.

It's not a coincidence, that if you go backwards from 2021 to 2018, every previous version feels more and more responsive, with 2018 being the pinnacle of response and smoothness, but sacrificing the physical game of PES 2017.

As for the CPU cheating, i won't expand,here as it has been posted thousands of times in main topics.

KONAMI's perspective about difficulty and challenge is completely false, especially after PES 2018 which is more blatant and obvious.

It is a paradox, for me at least, in 2011~2013, while i feel the TopPlayer tougher than 2018-2019 for example, or 2020-2021 where i perform better, i don't feel cheated in that old games, as i feel in the PS4 games. Either the CpU plays better, or the cheating was better camouflaged in that old games..

 

[Hatrickhero]

i just wish we can make pes 2021 less physical than it is, is there any way?

 

[River_Plate]

The gameplay of PES 2013 looks like a game like FIFA Street, too focused on counterattack and dribbling. PES 2011 feels more organic but shooting and penalties feel very weird.

 

[vialli82]

Well not all the players, for e.g. Eto'o had 90 in PES 6 and PES2008

Don't search under every rocks for secrets lol. It's mathematic, there's a common rules and some exceptions.
When you found 200 players and on the 200 only 3 don't have -1, or they've been upgraded, or it's a forgot.

Eto'o is a superstar so... Stats evolve from a version to another too especially big names.
Sometimes it's a matter of aesthetics/highlighting (90 orange looks better)
But i also found some player on WE10 with the same stats in balance, seemed untouched. No idea if it's a forgot for them or an upgrade for example

 

[vialli82]

A very good article about PES 2008 PS2. https://liberomagazine.wordpress.com/2019/12/02/the-lost-football-game-pes2008-review/

The title looks very similar to another thread about PES 2008 PS2...
@geeeeee did you wrote that article or you were inspired by the title for your thread? The article is great and spot on for whoever wrote it.

 

[geeeeee]

A very good article about PES 2008 PS2. https://liberomagazine.wordpress.com/2019/12/02/the-lost-football-game-pes2008-review/

The title looks very similar to another thread about PES 2008 PS2...
@geeeeee did you wrote that article or you were inspired by the title for your thread? The article is great and spot on for whoever wrote it.

Hi Vialli, yep it is a great article. Actually though the founder of this thread Miguelfcp (who is now banned) wrote the article and was inspired by the ‘The Lost Game’ thread that you mentioned

Apologies for not yet replying to your post on my option file thread. I have been a bit busy, I will reply hopefully this week.

 

[vialli82]

Hi Vialli, yep it is a great article. Actually though the founder of this thread Miguelfcp (who is now banned) wrote the article and was inspired by the ‘The Lost Game’ thread that you mentioned

Apologies for not yet replying to your post on my option file thread. I have been a bit busy, I will reply hopefully this week.

Don't worry mate. I'm posting a lot those time as i'm in a situation where i got to stay home, but there's nothing hurry. That's what i like in forum, you can answer after 2 weeks bro. No importance at all to me... I'm posting, that's all. You can forgot to answer too, i often even forgot that i've asked something myself so 😅

Forums is the oldest an my favourite "social network" from that reason. More chill, no pressure, no time limit.

 

[H_G]

Don't search under every rocks for secrets lol. It's mathematic, there's a common rules and some exceptions.
When you found 200 players and on the 200 only 3 don't have -1, or they've been upgraded, or it's a forgot.

Eto'o is a superstar so... Stats evolve from a version to another too especially big names.
Sometimes it's a matter of aesthetics/highlighting (90 orange looks better)
But i also found some player on WE10 with the same stats in balance, seemed untouched. No idea if it's a forgot for them or an upgrade for example

Besides Adriano and Classic players, here's another example of players known for their power shot

If they decided to reduce the power shot stat, this players should be the first

 

[vialli82]

So for you the -1 is wrong even for if 90-95% of players got -1 for 5 players?

I don't know but you seems to got a big contradictory spirit, or when somoene like me state something you search to say the opposite. I don't post it for saying "i know more than everyone", just inform what i found as i compared players from a version to another on that time to decrypt HOW Konami's guys rated their stats, what's the system behind it...

If you found full team again and again, with 1 or 3 players unchanged and all got -1 in Shooting Power : it simple, it means that's they should remove 1 point to every player as a standard. It's quite logic no?

Of course if you takes superstars here, that's totally normal that they got their stats changed. Check much much more players and you'll see.

I will compare 7-8 players from JL2007CC (closer in stats to PES2008)
Let's took Arsenal as it's the first in game +- 10 players and we'll see about the "above a certain gap"

Spoiler

-Adebayor 80 > 79
-Van Persie 83 > 82
-Walcott 75 >74
-Henry 88 > 86 (all others stats has changed too)
-Aliadiere 77 > 76
-Fabregas 82 > 80 (That one hasn't changed except -2 instead of -1)
-Hleb 80 > 78 (decreased everywhere, 80 to 78 in attack etc.)
-Toure 90 > 90 (Doesn't changed at all probably... Let's see if it's a rule, or a forgot or a +1... I already know the answer but well)

I think that's enough players.

Now let's see if it affect Players above 90 like Eto'o > As He got 90 too on JL2007.

Spoiler

Taiwo 91 > 90 (but he still on "90" orange range > aesthetic)
Nedved 93 > 92
Seedorf 92 > 91

Players with 90 exactly to see if there's a "limit" when a player got 90 exactly for not changing neither the highlight, neither the number of points in ML (as 90 cost a lot of points in ML. It works by 70 to 79, 80 to 89 etc.
Kinda sad, it should be more complicated that that, a player with 70 everywhere will got the same cost as a player with 79 everywhere... But well

Spoiler

Hasselbaink > PESSHOP now "Hotteubenik" 90 > 89
Diego Tristan 90 > 89
Stam 90 > 89
Luccin 90 > 89
Baraja 90 > 89

etc. etc.

So, we can confirm it's a common rules -1 between PES 6/JL2007 to PES 2008.
With some forgot or +1 and -1. Like i saw in PES 5 to WE10 > there was some forgot too.

I also saw others errors from 10 points, Konami's editor are not robots some errors or forgot may happens

 

[H_G]

I will compare 7-8 players from JL2007CC (closer in stats to PES2008)

Well the changes are in PES 2008 and not JL WE2007 CC. If you compare the power shot stat in JL WE2007 CC and PES2008, there's a change by -1 / -2 (not for all the players). That's true

 

[vialli82]

So if you want to made a player for example taking directly his stats without changing from We10/PES6/JLWE2007 (let's say the PES 6 era the JL version got club from PES6 with winter transfers... No Nations but J-league 1/2) > that's the "formula" (lol) you should make, normally.
To be honest, i don't see that much why, perhaps in a whole team it may got an influence if anyone shoot. But it wasn't necessary.
It's perhaps a global editor which pushed the button "-1 in Shoot/Kicking Power selection > for all player" haha

-2 and in Stamina more or less as the Stamina got a big impact on the long term but the -1 for higher values.
Well those change could've be done without touching stats, but as stats was 95% of the engine...

Ah talking about JLWE2007, it's like a PES 6 but more balanced. I really like the gameplay, it's dynamic but there's a lot of midfield battle in comparison to PES 6, from my experience after 10 games.
And there's also a version WE10 J-League Europa 06-07 i forgot to mention : it's from the start of the season, so J-league gamers could play with both the first and second part.
There's very few transfers on Europe teams and some stats upgrade, sad that they didn't updated it from at least the 1 september.

 

[slamsoze]

Something not 100% PES related. In early 2000's i jumped from console to PC gaming. So until PES 3 and ISS came to PC, i was mainly playing FIFA 99 and 2000 to PC, besides ISS pro evo, PES to PS1.

So in PC, for those often asking"why you're playing with keyboard", my options back in 1999 were keyboard and the alternative this Joystick



And to make it even better, the Joystick was the good option!!!!🤣 So me being the youngest and the most weak among my cousin's, i was forced to play with the bad option, aka keyboard!!!

That's how i got used to keyboard gaming back then.

#parent_house_findings

 

[Flipper the Priest]

Something not 100% PES related. In early 2000's i jumped from console to PC gaming. So until PES 3 and ISS came to PC, i was mainly playing FIFA 99 and 2000 to PC, besides ISS pro evo, PES to PS1.

So in PC, for those often asking"why you're playing with keyboard", my options back in 1999 were keyboard and the alternative this Joystick
View attachment 159411

View attachment 159412
And to make it even better, the Joystick was the good option!!!!🤣 So me being the youngest and the most weak among my cousin's, i was forced to play with the bad option, aka keyboard!!!

That's how i got used to keyboard gaming back then.

#parent_house_findings

Woah, that's a throwback!

I forget that people play football games using keyboards. It'd put me in hospital. That or sprinting with triangle, it's sorcery.

 

[slamsoze]

Woah, that's a throwback!

I forget that people play football games using keyboards. It'd put me in hospital. That or sprinting with triangle, it's sorcery.

Since 2015 i am back to maining gamepads, Xbox360 for Windows controller, and since 2017 Dualshock 4, with the Sony set-up, so in the modern games i am with gamepad too.

For retro pes, 3 up to 2010, still prefer the keyboard.

As for for sprint, the only time i was "forced" to use it, was FIFA wc 2002 PS1 version, but i never got familiar with it, as i was using the R1 from ISS pro evo.

Just for the record, sprint was working different for FIFA back then, you had to rapidly tap the button, instead of the more convenient PES/ISS keep the button pressed.

So it was an excuse, but for me was always R1=sprint. Never achieved to master the FIFA sprint.

 

[Hayes]

I'm a bit older and have played all PES.
(ok, not all. from pes1 to pes17, after that unfortunately only scrap came).
Conclusion :
for me pes4 on the ps2 is the best game of the series.
I rediscovered love for myself about 5 years ago.
The game was a bit too fast for me, so I gradually slowed down all players.

the feeling of the game is now just a poem for me.

I just wanted to write that.
greeting

Is PES 4 PS2 version on par with PC ? I played it on PC months ago, compare to PES 6 or PES 5, PES 4 AI is one of the best i've ever tried. I found PES 6/5 AI are too easy. There's several thing from PES 4 which i like and i don't

Pros :

- The best dribbling mechanic in any PES, it's hard to explain but i can "feel" the weight when dribbling with certain players. Maybe just need to add some new animation here and there and slow down the game speed a bit then you can have the ultimate dribbling experience
- PES 4 has one of the best, if not the most fair ref in series. I never feel been cheating with the ref. Even when playing 10 minutes match i got 7 or 8 fouls in first half, lol.
- Better GK than 5 & 6, well sometimes the GK is like god like

Cons :

- Shooting mechanic is suck and i mean really suck. For such an amazing game PES 4 has one of the worst if not the worst shooting mechanic i've tried. Shooting is really weak, sometimes you need to press full power in order to get the shoot right, Surprisingly when i got it right the result is beautiful, lol I think in later series Konami fix this one though, PES 5 or 6 definetly has better shooting than 4.
- Delay input in PES 4 is also the worst. This one is testing my patience.
- Ball is too bouncy which makes it hard to control

Maybe it's just that, i have to boot PES 4 again to remind me some Pros & Cons, lol

 

[slamsoze]

Is PES 4 PS2 version on par with PC ? I played it on PC months ago, compare to PES 6 or PES 5, PES 4 AI is one of the best i've ever tried. I found PES 6/5 AI are too easy. There's several thing from PES 4 which i like and i don't

Pros :

- The best dribbling mechanic in any PES, it's hard to explain but i can "feel" the weight when dribbling with certain players. Maybe just need to add some new animation here and there and slow down the game speed a bit then you can have the ultimate dribbling experience
- PES 4 has one of the best, if not the most fair ref in series. I never feel been cheating with the ref. Even when playing 10 minutes match i got 7 or 8 fouls in first half, lol.
- Better GK than 5 & 6, well sometimes the GK is like god like

Cons :

- Shooting mechanic is suck and i mean really suck. For such an amazing game PES 4 has one of the worst if not the worst shooting mechanic i've tried. Shooting is really weak, sometimes you need to press full power in order to get the shoot right, Surprisingly when i got itright the result is beautiful, lol I think in later series Konami fix this one though, PES 5 or 6 definetly has better shooting than 4.
- Delay input in PES 4 is also the worst. This one is testing my patience.
- Ball is too bouncy which makes it hard to control

Maybe it's just that, i have to boot PES 4 again to remind me some Pros & Cons, lol

For shooting only, on PES 4 PC, i would add:

Pros: Chipped Shots with R1 are goals 9/10 (once you master them)

Cons: Chipped Shots with R1 are goals 9/10 (once you master them) 😋

I remember the friendly tourneys, the "meta" scoring was:

1) cutback passes
2) R1 chip shots
3) The "boomers" , early cross and bicycle-sciccors.

I am impressed that cutbacks are only mentioned for PES6, while in PES 4, due to GKs still standing like statues in some cases, results to almost every pass and tap-in being a cut back goal, inside the penalty box.

 

[Hayes]

For shooting only, on PES 4 PC, i would add:

Pros: Chipped Shots with R1 are goals 9/10 (once you master them)

Cons: Chipped Shots with R1 are goals 9/10 (once you master them) 😋

That's what i did, it's just when press the button never make it right. Maybe it's me playing newer game and sometimes my muscle memory just press R2, idk really. It's been years, lol.

 

[vialli82]

@Hayes if you like PES 4 : you should try on emulator WE8 Liveware Evolution. There's a patch

R1 all along. I found PES4 it fun personally don't care what people think... But WE8LE is an hidden super version. Well i can't hate PES 4 as a wont a tournament on it haha

WE8LE is not "Final Evolution" or "Liveware Evolution", it's SUPER Evolution. Sad that PC gamers didn't tried that game. PES4 style, but totally re-balanced. Of course like the others, winter transfers etc.
About that, there's version with only summer transfers like WE7I jap or WE5FE (WE6FE too?), some with winter transfers...
Don't remember for that one, not important just the rosters are okay that's enough.

I got that patch, there's 3 parts (i ddl it in on "1 Fichier" i don't understand, perhaps a new version?) and try on PCSX2. Normally you should recognise a bit the "4" style


You can found tons of patch also for that version on PS2. That one is adding all reals kits, logos, and boots i didn't checked.

Like we said, hope one day we could just reproduce those game on PC without emulator. Just rebuild the game, that's all.
It shouldn't be that super hard, but let's admit it, people don't care and are okay with Emulation.

 

[vialli82]

PES 4, in fact should better be player vs the CPU. Against friends there's a bit too much bugs resolved on the final jap version.

I remember a french rapper fan of PES who've made a small track about PES named "Rooney" (Akhenaton)
He said "The 4, he was full of bugs, thanks to the accelerator, the loosers were shinning" haha. But in french there's some "argot" so loosers > moldy

 

[Hayes]

Spoiler

Is PES 4 PS2 version on par with PC ? I played it on PC months ago, compare to PES 6 or PES 5, PES 4 AI is one of the best i've ever tried. I found PES 6/5 AI are too easy. There's several thing from PES 4 which i like and i don't

Pros :

- The best dribbling mechanic in any PES, it's hard to explain but i can "feel" the weight when dribbling with certain players. Maybe just need to add some new animation here and there and slow down the game speed a bit then you can have the ultimate dribbling experience
- PES 4 has one of the best, if not the most fair ref in series. I never feel been cheating with the ref. Even when playing 10 minutes match i got 7 or 8 fouls in first half, lol.
- Better GK than 5 & 6, well sometimes the GK is like god like

Cons :

- Shooting mechanic is suck and i mean really suck. For such an amazing game PES 4 has one of the worst if not the worst shooting mechanic i've tried. Shooting is really weak, sometimes you need to press full power in order to get the shoot right, Surprisingly when i got it right the result is beautiful, lol I think in later series Konami fix this one though, PES 5 or 6 definetly has better shooting than 4.
- Delay input in PES 4 is also the worst. This one is testing my patience.
- Ball is too bouncy which makes it hard to control

Maybe it's just that, i have to boot PES 4 again to remind me some Pros & Cons, lol

Now i remember, first touch in PES 4 is also horrible :/

 

[H_G]

WE8LE is not "Final Evolution" or "Liveware Evolution", it's SUPER Evolution. Sad that PC gamers didn't tried that game. PES4 style, but totally re-balanced. Of course like the others, winter transfers etc.

Have you tried WE 8 (Japan) PS2?

 

[vialli82]

Yes a long time ago.
What i remember is firstly we were all enthusiast as it was the first time we got complete leagues.

But in terms of gameplay, the community were i was before from French, after the "new stuff" have passed, were very harsh about the game.
Remember i loved the new graphisms animations etc. but the game itself... No comment, too fast, a bit like WE10 on PS2 but worst.

I liked the 03/04 season, Dario Hubner at i don't remember, like 36-37 years old lol. was top scorer on Serie A, Drogba to Chelsea after one year at Marseille (i love that player since a long time) etc.

PES 4 got bugs, probably less or more depends if they tried to add variety and missed the spot, was very based on speed and "tank" (Balance + Speed : unstoppable) but i remember we got a lot of fun with. But both are very close overall. Ha yes, i remember one thing on WE8 gameplay : controls/dribbling were weird, i don't remember if it was input lag or something else. WE8LE is like another game.

Well if you don't remember a game or a season, at least some parts... It's often because there's hard to found good memories. So i remember only WE8 for the features, nothing more. No games, special stuffs or the league we played on it (Each sunday, we were 7 to 10 people max and we did a big league with two teams : one big and one basic. Or two average, don't remember how we decided lol)

2 games i don't remember at all what we've done or a goal or a special stuff: WE8 and WE10. And that's the two i just can't replay lol

 

[Madmac79]

Was wondering lately if there was any way to have "new" regens in Pes 5 (or even on the other "old gen" titles)..

Would it be possible to edit players stats during a Master League, with some external tool of sort? Did anyone ever tried to build something like this? Maybe I'm flying a bit with fantasy, but since it's already possible with normal edit I think a tool that randomize names, growth, roles and special abilities of regens wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities, hell I'd probably do it player to player or something. Only real stop to that would be stats that are, oc, not editable with the in game one.