The Retro-PES Corner

Hayes said:
Is PES 4 PS2 version on par with PC ? I played it on PC months ago, compare to PES 6 or PES 5, PES 4 AI is one of the best i've ever tried. I found PES 6/5 AI are too easy. There's several thing from PES 4 which i like and i don't

Pros :

- The best dribbling mechanic in any PES, it's hard to explain but i can "feel" the weight when dribbling with certain players. Maybe just need to add some new animation here and there and slow down the game speed a bit then you can have the ultimate dribbling experience
- PES 4 has one of the best, if not the most fair ref in series. I never feel been cheating with the ref. Even when playing 10 minutes match i got 7 or 8 fouls in first half, lol.
- Better GK than 5 & 6, well sometimes the GK is like god like

Cons :

- Shooting mechanic is suck and i mean really suck. For such an amazing game PES 4 has one of the worst if not the worst shooting mechanic i've tried. Shooting is really weak, sometimes you need to press full power in order to get the shoot right, Surprisingly when i got it right the result is beautiful, lol I think in later series Konami fix this one though, PES 5 or 6 definetly has better shooting than 4.
- Delay input in PES 4 is also the worst. This one is testing my patience.
- Ball is too bouncy which makes it hard to control

Maybe it's just that, i have to boot PES 4 again to remind me some Pros & Cons, lol :D
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I can only echo the praise for WE8LE, and how it irons out some of the creases. In PES4 the shooting is really floaty (particularly jarring following on from the PES3 family); and I personally think the goalkeepers are weak, with a habit of taking up poor positions and helplessly watching weak shots sail past them, especially long shots.

WE8LE tightens it up. And there's something about it when it rains. However it affects the ball, it feels amazing.

Plenty of gameplay footage here via shameless self-promotion.
 
WE8LE has been my most-played football game since @FlipperThePriest (not sure if I'm doing the '@' thing correctly there) was kind enough last autumn to point me in the direction of a decent-enough English language patch for the ISO copy. Been playing it on PCSX2 ever since. It's fantastic.

The first-touch knock-on mechanic from that era of PES/WE is a thing of beauty. Something that is baked into my autonomic nervous system.

The other evening I was 1-0 up in a post-season friendly against Barcelona that I had to win to earn enough points to avoid a Game Over. Barca brought on Ronaldinho in the 85th minute, and he duly sliced through my majority-Defaults team like the proverbial hot knife. Game ended 1-2 and I've yet to play the deciding matches. The era of Master League when you could have a proper Game Over is the definition of squeaky bum time.

I don't understand my fellow PES/WE enthusiasts who regard as unplayable a football game in which the likes of Ronaldinho is a current player. Each and every great football game is that way forever, not just for the year when its rosters are current.
 
mattmid said:
I nearly spat my tea out when I read that :LOL:
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Well, yeah..There was a period back in that era 2004~2005 , a general craziness appeared, a massive love for pillows, beanbags chair, seats, furniture, etc....

I had also one, but never understood, why they were everywhere,even in contest prizes.

This and latter that fankopop??? dogs for the car, that were shaking thr head up/down .. Crazy ol'times..
 
Madmac79 said:
Was wondering lately if there was any way to have "new" regens in Pes 5 (or even on the other "old gen" titles)..

Would it be possible to edit players stats during a Master League, with some external tool of sort? Did anyone ever tried to build something like this? Maybe I'm flying a bit with fantasy, but since it's already possible with normal edit I think a tool that randomize names, growth, roles and special abilities of regens wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities, hell I'd probably do it player to player or something. Only real stop to that would be stats that are, oc, not editable with the in game one.
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I think it is possible, i need to understand better the structure of the file, but can be done
 
Been playing a lot of PES 6 recently and one of the things that strikes me the most about this game coming off of the back of eFootball and PES 2021 is the brevity of these retro games.

Honestly, it thrusts you back into the action so quickly you never miss a beat, can keep your rhythm going and the match flow is uninterrupted.

It's no secret but god damn, it's excruciating in these modern games which are not only more physical but with so many dubious fouls due to clunky and physics calculations or generally players tackling one another without really pressing anything lead to a seemingly endless slog of long pause, screen transistion, replay then screen transistion and finally the referee blowing for you to take your free kick.

The players picking up the ball for a throw in animation was nice the first time we saw it (in PES 2012 I believe?) but I haven't cared about it since and it's just an inconvenience.

I love this pragmatic approach to match pacing & less exposition on the older games, it makes it so much more easier and tempting to jump in and out of them without the above and the constant connection bullshit before you can even access the main menu.
 
Marlon Anthony said:
Been playing a lot of PES 6 recently and one of the things that strikes me the most about this game coming off of the back of eFootball and PES 2021 is the brevity of these retro games.

Honestly, it thrusts you back into the action so quickly you never miss a beat, can keep your rhythm going and the match flow is uninterrupted.

It's no secret but god damn, it's excruciating in these modern games which are not only more physical but with so many dubious fouls due to clunky and physics calculations or generally players tackling one another without really pressing anything lead to a seemingly endless slog of long pause, screen transistion, replay then screen transistion and finally the referee blowing for you to take your free kick.

The players picking up the ball for a throw in animation was nice the first time we saw it (in PES 2012 I believe?) but I haven't cared about it since and it's just an inconvenience.

I love this pragmatic approach to match pacing & less exposition on the older games, it makes it so much more easier and tempting to jump in and out of them without the above and the constant connection bullshit before you can even access the main menu.
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Absolutely agree. PS2 era you're zero to kick off in 30 seconds. After 30 seconds on eFootball you're only on your fourth apology from the admin.

Am I sad enough to time this sometime? Yes.

The older games are just more agile, as a package. Have to add that it's not just the recent Konami games that are guilty of it.
 
Marlon Anthony said:
It's no secret but god damn, it's excruciating in these modern games which are not only more physical but with so many dubious fouls due to clunky and physics calculations or generally players tackling one another without really pressing anything lead to a seemingly endless slog of long pause, screen transistion, replay then screen transistion and finally the referee blowing for you to take your free kick.

The players picking up the ball for a throw in animation was nice the first time we saw it (in PES 2012 I believe?) but I haven't cared about it since and it's just an inconvenience.
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That's so true. Also in the older games such as PES6 a quick tap of a key/button and the process of starting a replay is ended and you're ready to continue. Why they couldn't have those things as a toggled option in the modern PES's I don't know. The whole replay routine got old after the first half of the first game. Kind of ironic really in an era of zero attention span.
 
You guys reeled me in again in praising the retro ps2 pes.

Just the jump from ps1 PES to ps2 PES was in the same scale/leap as to 2d to 3d gaming. Heck ! Older pes even made fifa look archaic. They were great in every sense, so much so that they made you wonder about how future games would look in the 20xx. Now ? these modern footy games leave you with usual doom and gloom, no future whatsoever.

You would watch your fav team play the weekend game and you'd try to replicate the goal, and did so to a large extent, now ? the newer games wont even respond to your commands.

Its almost like the old devs played their games countless hours and said, ''this instance needs a better animations, needs to be a bit snappier or needs to look a little realistic'' etc .and added them before releasing it to us. Modern games on the other hand just leave me with the feeling of what could have been and what should have been. sigh !
 
@slamsoze you're right about remembering, but that's not what i mean: it was about if you don't remember how "bad/good" the game played, just what we said about it, it's not a game to remember.

We organised a big local tournament on WE10, has i was working with "FrenchEvolution" for updating World Cup Rosters : so we played with that version.
Of course, everyone gotted that version (i solded 10 euros the patchs, and everyone got a PS2 with a modchip so)
Don't remember where i finished but the rules were like in every tournament we organised :

1st : You check a paper with a number on it a seal or whatever stuff that may contains small piece of paper.
2nd: The number 1 could choose the team first (often Brasil or Argentina lol), until the last.
Special rule : on that tournament World cup especially, teams were limited to the teams don't remember if we were 32. I think we were full yes.

And i took a low number lol, and i got Togo haha.

I just remember my game, everyone remaining were beyond me : i was about to win to the Belgian Champion twice and Europe 2nd too and third, when it was 3-0 for me at the half time...
2nd and 3rd place in Europe from official tournament. But it was Togo... The players lost their reactivity and it became impossible to defend on the second half : he scored 3 goal until prolongations, and i lost 4-3 lol. I wasn't pissed, as i would never go in quarter final with that team.

(About the guy, no idea of his pseudonym, just his full name.
e was also on our friendly Sunday League i already explained so we played very often together. He didn't crushed everyone as the level was quite high. Very humble, super great guy, younger than us. Just a normal dude who won a lot)

Well i could talk about the other tournament but it's about the "game we don't remember how it plays" lol. Well i remember how PES 4 plays, but WE8 difference, not that much. Faster and weird controls, but it's from what people said not my memory.
 
There's something i don't understand.
I'm doing a "PES 2008 original season" with an O.F., i've well advanced (all transfers done, need to copy Bundes with some rectification from another very good OF regarding Bundes / Not PSD stats a bit overrated)

I'm running out of players for Bundes creation. BUT i keept some loan and interesting players on Free Agents.

But i got to ask to @geeeeee something : for your O.F. you avoid to unlock classic players... But there's an option you can choose before starting ML with "Classic and Hidden Players Yes/No" on the last choice with more details before starting ML. So it's not really a problem as long as you settle it to "no"? I'm curious to know, as you're a good editor and you probably aware about it.

>It doesn't remove real players Free Agents neither, i verified. So no problem on that side. And it hide every Classic players and PES SHOP non registered players.
Why you don't use that for your OF? That's something i don't understand in your logic to not unlock any PES-SHOP players. I need to check but i think it exist even on PES 5 / Edit since WE10 > just checked now. And before, the cost for Classics were the same as if they were created for ML.

There's no problem to unlock, you will get the same as you got if you desactivate Classic players on ML. I've always done that in the past personally and never got any issue.

Only one question remains to me.
I registered Barbarez (PES SHOP) on Arsenal. He got the same number of point as a normal player (around 620). Now there's 3 scenarios i through about it on ML if he goes to Free agents :

> If i set to "Classic players / NO" and remove him : he will normally goes to "Free Agents" and keep the same good price.
> If i set to "Classic players / yes" and removie him : 2 scenario
1: he can came back to classic with a very high cost which is kinda annoying
2: he can goes to Free agents with the same cost as he got at Arsenal, as the game considers him as a normal player since he's registred on the original DB.
 
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H_G said:
I really liked this behind the scenes. As I remember Konami released a behind the scenes video for PES 2010 and 2012

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Really love the Gameplan from PES 2010. It's simple, clear, not excessive ad PES-ish.
Only the Overalls where pretty weird and confusing, a bit too much exagerated.

I remember also, don't know if it's in that version, that CF/SS were too low rated if their stats wasn't like an All Rounder CF. So in comparison to others players you through that the CF you choosen was too weak for rest of the team. Or some CF more suited to that task having lower OVR...

Remember also PES 2014 that LMF/RMF got a calculation giving them a bit too high rated. stats + the same issue but less pronouced for Attackers.

There's one thing that they did pretty well since PES 2015, even if it's super complicated, it's OVR calculation, taking all stats in account with some highlight for important stats for positions. I don't choose my player regarding OVR (Speed/Physical Contact and height are important), but it's "overally" correct, for a quick selection let's say.

On FIFA it's the same since PS3 : only took key stats for each position and you can set every other to 99 the OVR will remain the same.
they should at least give 1/4 for others outfield stats in the equation, but devs just said "looks stats not OVR". Well on FIFA there's a lot and randomly positioned;
 
vialli82 said:
Really love the Gameplan from PES 2010. It's simple, clear, not excessive ad PES-ish.
Only the Overalls where pretty weird and confusing, a bit too much exagerated.

I remember also, don't know if it's in that version, that CF/SS were too low rated if their stats wasn't like an All Rounder CF. So in comparison to others players you through that the CF you choosen was too weak for rest of the team. Or some CF more suited to that task having lower OVR...

Remember also PES 2014 that LMF/RMF got a calculation giving them a bit too high rated. stats + the same issue but less pronouced for Attackers.

There's one thing that they did pretty well since PES 2015, even if it's super complicated, it's OVR calculation, taking all stats in account with some highlight for important stats for positions. I don't choose my player regarding OVR (Speed/Physical Contact and height are important), but it's "overally" correct, for a quick selection let's say.

On FIFA it's the same since PS3 : only took key stats for each position and you can set every other to 99 the OVR will remain the same.
they should at least give 1/4 for others outfield stats in the equation, but devs just said "looks stats not OVR". Well on FIFA there's a lot and randomly positioned;
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Hated PS3 era gameplan screens, for the missing hexagons, except for 2008, 2011 (too small hexagon), and 2014, can't recall 2009 stats screen, IIRC it had hexagons stats too..

And on 2010 i hated those squares for players, found them too robotic, i prefer dots or circles.. :)

On bright side, they introduced tactics sliders, for team support etc, which was good. Although most of them were removed again over time ..
 
vialli82 said:
Really love the Gameplan from PES 2010. It's simple, clear, not excessive ad PES-ish.
Only the Overalls where pretty weird and confusing, a bit too much exagerated.

I remember also, don't know if it's in that version, that CF/SS were too low rated if their stats wasn't like an All Rounder CF. So in comparison to others players you through that the CF you choosen was too weak for rest of the team. Or some CF more suited to that task having lower OVR...

Remember also PES 2014 that LMF/RMF got a calculation giving them a bit too high rated. stats + the same issue but less pronouced for Attackers.

There's one thing that they did pretty well since PES 2015, even if it's super complicated, it's OVR calculation, taking all stats in account with some highlight for important stats for positions. I don't choose my player regarding OVR (Speed/Physical Contact and height are important), but it's "overally" correct, for a quick selection let's say.

On FIFA it's the same since PS3 : only took key stats for each position and you can set every other to 99 the OVR will remain the same.
they should at least give 1/4 for others outfield stats in the equation, but devs just said "looks stats not OVR". Well on FIFA there's a lot and randomly positioned;
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to me PES started to die when they copied this overall thing from fifa
 
Well the square didn't bothered me, but i like the "simple/effective" style of PES 2010, let's say the background etc.
But you're right i forgot about the Polygon.
I didn't liked PES 2011-13 gameplan as i the overall where under the player (and i disliked the confusing OVR) and also the fact that i like stuff to be "in place".

I mean, You could've place anywhere on the pitch a player, i don't remember there were some "gap" on the players positionning. Was kinda too random or should i say too vague and (again) confusing.

On PES 15 to 21 you can move with the cursor, but there's gap : if you change the position of the player on the pitch with the 4 Direction cross, it will follow "gap". If you do it with the stick, it will replace the player on the "point" he should be. I like thing to be "exact".

So in terms of editing, you can reproduce exactly the position where the player should be.
As i recopied J-League, and many others formations, in fact the positioning is the same as old PES.

5 on the right, 2 up etc., there's no indication like old PES and you still can move with the Analog.
 
robozaoGOAT said:
to me PES started to die when they copied this overall thing from fifa
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It's just an indication. Nothing more or less. It can be useful for some people. Personnally i don't care as i always check players stats.
I don't see what's wrong with that, CM and FM got Current Ability too since forever, FIFA and Sensible got overalls etc.

Tons of games use that since a very long time.
I don't see how an indication could kill a game lol. I personnally hated it when it was shitty made, but i currently found it logic their system since PES 2015.

It's much more complicated but logic too than Fifa. Others stats matters, not on Fifa, it's a "real" compromise between the overall from an outfield player and the position he plays. I personnally use it aswell as i saw much arrows up for each stats in the past when i choose a player to switch.
It was similar to an overall, as i checked overally who was stronger.
 
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vialli82 said:
It's just an indication. Nothing more or less. It can be useful for some people. Personnally i don't care as i always check players stats.
I don't see what's wrong with that, CM and FM got Current Ability too since forever, FIFA and Sensible got overalls etc.

Tons of games use that. I don't see how an indication could kill a game lol
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just exaggerating lol

but it was way more fun when you had to see the stats and choose guys according to your play style
even by the colours at some time you could tell what a guy was good at

nowadays even im prone to choosing just looking at overall
 
Yes more fun, but i check stats like in the past, a lot about playing style too.

If i got to choose two players, let's say one got +2 OVR but don't have the playing style or style i need for my tactic...
He will stay on the bench and i will choose another who fits better. And if he's pretty strong i will check another position he could play, often LMR/LMF lol
 
@H_G Menus weren't vertical in PES 2010 but almost (divided in two vertical stuff) but at least all was on the same page : that's probably what you were saying.
Formation yes, totally.
So it was totally okay, vertical or semi-vertical : the goal is having every most important stuffs on the same page. Then, under-menus...

With an all vertical menu, you got a direct global view of all modes, without moving anything.
I'm fucking lost with Efootball 22 menu (not PES 2015-21 it was at the limit from "acceptable" even if ugly it wasn't hard to found where to go)
 
vialli82 said:
There's something i don't understand.
I'm doing a "PES 2008 original season" with an O.F., i've well advanced (all transfers done, need to copy Bundes with some rectification from another very good OF regarding Bundes / Not PSD stats a bit overrated)

I'm running out of players for Bundes creation. BUT i keept some loan and interesting players on Free Agents.

But i got to ask to @geeeeee something : for your O.F. you avoid to unlock classic players... But there's an option you can choose before starting ML with "Classic and Hidden Players Yes/No" on the last choice with more details before starting ML. So it's not really a problem as long as you settle it to "no"? I'm curious to know, as you're a good editor and you probably aware about it.

>It doesn't remove real players Free Agents neither, i verified. So no problem on that side. And it hide every Classic players and PES SHOP non registered players.
Why you don't use that for your OF? That's something i don't understand in your logic to not unlock any PES-SHOP players. I need to check but i think it exist even on PES 5 / Edit since WE10 > just checked now. And before, the cost for Classics were the same as if they were created for ML.

There's no problem to unlock, you will get the same as you got if you desactivate Classic players on ML. I've always done that in the past personally and never got any issue.

Only one question remains to me.
I registered Barbarez (PES SHOP) on Arsenal. He got the same number of point as a normal player (around 620). Now there's 3 scenarios i through about it on ML if he goes to Free agents :

> If i set to "Classic players / NO" and remove him : he will normally goes to "Free Agents" and keep the same good price.
> If i set to "Classic players / yes" and removie him : 2 scenario
1: he can came back to classic with a very high cost which is kinda annoying
2: he can goes to Free agents with the same cost as he got at Arsenal, as the game considers him as a normal player since he's registred on the original DB.
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Good question and it’s something I should have mentioned before.

In my experience playing 2008 once you unlock Classic Players from the shop they always appear in ML regardless of whether you select Classic Players YES or NO.

I think it is a fault in the game. 😐
 
geeeeee said:
Good question and it’s something I should have mentioned before.

In my experience playing 2008 once you unlock Classic Players from the shop they always appear in ML regardless of whether you select Classic Players YES or NO.

I think it is a fault in the game. 😐
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Yes, and thanks for the answer i see the picture.
Now, i need players, but only the one who are in Bundes to unlock. As i said i put Barbarez to Arsenal. He got a normal value but when he's registred to a team on ML, the one he should have normally (620 points i think).

The question is, as they are player i need and i won't have enough players IG for doing Bundes : does if i release or another club release one of those players... Will they kept their "normal" value or come back with 1000 (or 5000 don't remember) points on the section Classic Players?

Personally i think by logic that a player who have a stated value can't change to +++ points just because you remove him. He's part of the ML database as a player first since he's registered to a team with a fixed value.
So he should simply go to Free agent and keep the value he got before quitting the team ;)

I will take the risk to just unlock players i need then i'll see if it cause issue in ML after. If it cause issues, i will just create players + removing all the good free agents and reduce some Germany/Other created teams if needed.
 
The icons of the game plan changed compared to the released version of PES 2011.

Players' rating color is the same as PES 2010, with a common color.

And the most important that they decided to remove the L / R flank attack in the Team style, from the released version. And it never went back in the next editions 🪁

1652090314280.png
 
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WE5FE is probably the PES i wanted to play at all cost, in a comprehensible language.
As PES 1 was as good, but the rosters weren't up to date.

Now we finally can : found first an italian translation then an english one (better) Renaming the teams "PIEMONTE" to "JUVENTUS", Real, Leverkusen etc.
I remember on PES 1 Lazio was pretty strong : it was my first league on PES 1 and i gotted Lazio and Leverkusen. But to me the most dangerous team was Barcelona... And Inter offensively : the trio Seedorf Vieri R9...

You didn't even need 3 players in attack (that's what we did as the 1st was hardcore to score. Personnally i liked to play with the real tactics)
 
vialli82 said:
WE5FE is probably the PES i wanted to play at all cost, in a comprehensible language.
As PES 1 was as good, but the rosters weren't up to date.

Now we finally can : found first an italian translation then an english one (better) Renaming the teams "PIEMONTE" to "JUVENTUS", Real, Leverkusen etc.
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I played it with this patch, Winning Eleven 5 - Final Evolution Rh4ps0dY English Patch v 1.0
I also made a thread to gather ROMs like official final evolution versions, translations or modded ones here, Most recommended ROMs for PES games
Base Profile Screenshot 2022.05.09 - 19.15.30.57.png
 
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