The Retro-PES Corner

Marlon Anthony said:
Thanks for the insight. I am curious though and maybe you can't answer - But was there any instances of politics regarding OVR's and stats - For instance cover stars and ambassador players being boosted?

I heard a similar ethos took place in the FIFA games regarding those FUT cards and players bragging about their OVR's and players who were cover stars or used in certain promotional materials being higher than their real life form dictated.
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I recall reading in a FuT discussion, professional players (i mean real life football players) can contact EA and receive a boosted card of themselves, but is unique, only one, and i think cannot be traded or sold in FuT market.

Now i don't remember if the boost was 99 OPR or just boosted a lot from the default FIFA OPR.
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To give you the backstory, i was reading a post about a FuT player card from either 2nd France, or England or German that was rated too high, i think 90 or 99 and had purple IIRC colour instead of the usual gold or other FUT cards colour.
So the guy used this card was accused of cheating, using "modded" cards..

The conclusion of the discussion amomg FuT players was that, that player was a professional Football player, i think 2nd Germany, and just requested EA, to have a special card of himself, and that this is a common strategy of EA sports, every football player that plays also FuT, can contact EA and recieve a FuT card of himself with boosted stats, no matter the division, he just has to exist in respective year's FIFA database.

That's just all I've read, no further info on FuT amd cards and stats..
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But to return onTOPIC, i don't recall KONAMI having the same policy, although Griezman, who used to post in his social media, that he was active MyClub player, had a card version of himself, i think the regular one, when in MyClub, you could only acuire players by lootboxes.

But it's Griezman, he could easily grab some sponsorship or throw his own real money to coins, to spin the wheel, until he drop himself :P :)
 
The thing is, I don't think the stats & tactics matter all that much on modern football games, the engines are far easier to exploit and as long as you have a strong enough team, it mostly comes down to the skill & vision of the human player and whatever BS scripting/handicapping the game throws at you or the other team.

The older games being on a more restrictive engine where there's less possibilities for movement, angles of dribbling and physics rely a lot more on algorithm based gameplay and this is where the stats on those games determine the success rate of the outcomes you're pursuing.
 
Does anyone feel that the PC versions of PES 5, PES 6, WE9LE etc feel far more slower and unresponsive compared to the PS2 versions on PCSX2? When I play them on PCSX2 its like how I remembered them back in the day.
 
BillyKong said:
Does anyone feel that the PC versions of PES 5, PES 6, WE9LE etc feel far more slower and unresponsive compared to the PS2 versions on PCSX2? When I play them on PCSX2 its like how I remembered them back in the day.
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For me, they're visibly faster on PC, not slower! But if you use a patch and/or Kitserver, you might find a speeder.cfg file in the Kitserver folder. I had to enter values far below 1 to get the speed to match the PS2 versions.
 
When you got a PS2 to compare : yes it's slower and there's an input lag on every version (a bit more on some, less on others) aswell as hair polygon disappearing lol/Except PES 2008 but it's not the topic. PES 5 is slow, while on PS2 it's faster and pretty dynamic like @Chris Davies said.
... Perhaps the LCD tv? No idea, the one i got to play PS2 is a Monitor with Tuner, not a basic TV with some delay or stuff like this.

On PC patch there's often a "95% game speed" on patch kitserver so except if you set it at 100%, it's hard to compare.
And even at 100% i don't remember having something that dynamic as on PS2. For PES 5 i mean. PES 6 hard to judge.
The 2 slower naturally version i played was PES 2014 1st and PES 2008.
From version we played, i would say PES 1 and WE5FE are pretty slower.

About speed : you probably remember that on all ISS pro : you could change the speed with a bar. And i remember someone talking about PES 1, known for his acknowledge about PES +- the same age as we got : "The first time we tried it on PS2, the first thing that cames in our mind was It's slow!"
Well, i didn't know a single person who didn't put the bar speed to the maximum 😆
Do your friend and yourself did the same thing? Didn't owned a PS but i would if as i was i competition with friends and others players.

Another thing on ISS 98 : the game got the bar with +9 (on 30) by default, i just counted on an unedited game, not in the middle. Means 25% faster!
But to be honest the speed bar wasn't that sensitive. The difference isn't that big, but yes, fortunately, you can feel it.
Now as i'm replaying it : i put the bar in the middle (you got a line on the US version, weirdly not on the EU)
 
is pes 2008 ps2 version somehow better gameplay-wise than pes 2014 ps2? i wonder which one should i stick with, but i'm not gonna spend much time playing them to compare, i have them on my phone via ps2 emulator for an ocassional game
 
Just played a couple games of we9le again, well i have to say it's ok. Compare to 3 to 6 there's definetly good and bad.

The good :

- Better defending AI than 5 or 6
- GK is more human
- AI attacking variety is very good

The bad :

- Passing, shooting, first touch 👎 maybe because i'm getting used with modern pes, i just can't stand with these old controls, it's too rigid. Especially through pass are 💩. No complain about dribbling though, cause it's good.

- Ref is bad. I read back and forth in many threads about fouls on this game, well i got less than 6 each match from AI (10 min)

Unlike ref on pes 4, ref in this game never on my side. Several times i got elbow to face and ref never called it. It's like pes 2020/21 all over again but with ps2 graphics, lol.

For a game where ref whistle too much i got more penalties on pes 6 than this game. I still got penalty though but not as much as i got when playing pes 6.

For now there's that, sometimes i forgot what i want to write and will add new one later

Gonna play some games again, maybe i found new things on this game.
 
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To be honest, i found it kinda funny, well they're not e-sport guys. So if you fall VS a 99 player in the other team, it's the real dude playing haha.
I'm pretty sure you may found somewhere the Xbox/Steam or PSN pseudonym of those guys lol (who got to block their PM and the rest probably)
 
A question to stat aficionados here, @vialli82 I'm thinking, but anyone with more knowledge on the subject too. Are PES4 and PES5 stats intercompattible? What I mean more precisely is, can I simply use PES4 player stats in PES5, or would I need to do any adjustments?
 
They seems compatible, as i found exact same sets of stats for many players.

Those 2 games where out only on PS2, so use PCSX2. As it's for copy player manually for PC i suppose, it's easy to configure if you don't have it.

You can also WE9 translated as it's PES5 before transfers (except Cagliari, they're all fakes for i don't know what reason)
WE8 Liveware Evolution too it's PES 4 with stats updated and Summer transfers so... Better using that one.

@Tinker
Link from original WE9 in English here https://cdromance.com/ps2-iso/world-soccer-winning-eleven-9-jpn/

WE8LE patch Ole Mix uploaded
It's the original database with duplicates NT etc. just Fernando's translation, but with kits and everything else. Purely cosmetic don't worry.

NOTE/
I also attached WE9 english option file in case you prefers. But there's a lot of NT duplicates > no names at all (even on shirt) but stuff like <168> you got to guess or search who's the player. Sometimes it's hard to found so need to launch WE9 to check.
Compatible with PES 5 Editor just for open it (it won't be recognised by any game, needs to revert to WE9 "name version")
 

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I recently learnt of the old Brescia team from early 2000's that had Guardiola, Luca Toni, Baggio and Pirlo around same time and a young Appiah. So I thought I'd find the team on whatever old PES they are on (turns out 3 and Pirlo is at AC Milan, so I'll try and buy him ASAP. using PS2 emulator to play ) I've found all real names, will edit the real team/player names in and try and take Brescia to Master League glory :)
 
Just installed WE9LE (PES5) on PC and having some good old fun with it. Sure, the attacking AI is not that much of a challenge even on the highest level but all the less frustration when you are just in for a casual game for which it is perfect. As an experience it can happily coexist next to PES2021 in my live as they compliment each-other more-so then they overlap.

I have to point out how satisfying, among many other things, the miss-passes due to inertia and the stray balls are. Those moments where you are on full speed and try to lay one off to a slightly awkward angle and you see lesser skilled players really struggling and sometimes failing to deliver or the many deflections and scrimmages. I don't believe this is present in PES2021 to such a level but it could be because i only play full manual. It can create some really tense and exiting moments when you know a pass could very well fail but only due to the skill of your player he manages to pull it off (or it gets deflected but by chance it turns out in your advantage). It's a very simple system to understand and the risk assessment mind game it creates is all the more fulfilling for it.

Anyway, if anyone would like to play an online game pass me a DM or find me in the following discord (as "supercancellife"): https://discord.com/channels/218648848938172416/218648848938172416.
 
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Don't know where to post that :
Just searched about a Virtua Striker on PS2, there isn't (only the 1st on PS3) and i found instead, from Sega, never heard about it since... Today

VIRTUA PRO FOOTBALL. Seriously it makes me think to Football Kingdom a bit more playable, more midfield battle but... Weird sometimes :




The game isn't at all annoying to play, mix of Virtua Striker and PES, even a bit of Fifa old school. It's weird lol, when you push R2 the camera change on some situation, the camera switch to your player back and you got to choose the dribble for example (not an obligation to use)

But that not why i'm posting here : i never see a game with the most stats on digit i never found :SHOCK:
And they're pretty accurate at least for well known players

There's 8 part, 1 with star only, and even Positions and playing style are rated.
So you got, on 99
- 6 Mentality stats
- 8 Physical / Balance separated to Physical Duels / sorry it's translated > game gives language automatically (don't even know if you can change)
- 5 Ability (no other word, let's say "Special ones")
- 9 on Defending (4 Defender stats + 5 GK stats)
-7 Attacking

So you got from basic ones like on PES 6 > 30 stats

16 Aptitude meaning in fact 8 positions + 8 positions style (8 positions rated like simply "Central" or "Side")
Then 16 playing style on 99 too

Total : i counted fast but 62 stats on 99 + 16 special skills : all separated SEGA was totally crazy :LOL: and it's not like Combination stats from PES 14-15!

Some mention to some who seemed kinda unique especially at the time :

-Basic : Authority, Support (Mental, seems a mix or Workrate and teamwork), Crossing Technique (Ability) / for basic stats
-Position : Counter-Attacker, Pressing player
-Playing Style : Shadow Attacker, Attacker but JUST Attacker : seems like Aggressivity in old PES i think, Lateral Attacker (there's also Winger so, not the same)

Otherwise all FIFA stats and PES on it, just not Passing speed but some others should replace it.

That's all. Just give a try for fun, the ball physic is a bit better than fifa but not PES level. Less weirdo than Football Kingdom etc., it's very special to play.
Button for attack = PES.
For Defence, Standing Tackle, Support (A bit like teammate pressing but feels and act different), and sliding tackle, GK.

All PES League on it BUT with 2nd divisions even Eredivisie, and tons of others countries clubs from Europe but also Asia/America
 
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vialli82 said:
Don't know where to post that :
Just searched about a Virtua Striker on PS2, there isn't (only the 1st on PS3) and i found instead, from Sega, never heard about it since... Today

VIRTUA PRO FOOTBALL. Seriously it makes me think to Football Kingdom a bit more playable, more midfield battle but... Weird sometimes :




The game isn't at all annoying to play, mix of Virtua Striker and PES, even a bit of Fifa old school. It's weird lol, when you push R2 the camera change on some situation, the camera switch to your player back and you got to choose the dribble for example (not an obligation to use)

But that not why i'm posting here : i never see a game with the most stats on digit i never found :SHOCK:
And they're pretty accurate at least for well known players

There's 8 part, 1 with star only, and even Positions and playing style are rated.
So you got, on 99
- 6 Mentality stats
- 8 Physical / Balance separated to Physical Duels / sorry it's translated > game gives language automatically (don't even know if you can change)
- 5 Ability (no other word, let's say "Special ones")
- 9 on Defending (4 Defender stats + 5 GK stats)
-7 Attacking

So you got from basic ones like on PES 6 > 30 stats

16 Aptitude meaning in fact 8 positions + 8 positions style (8 positions rated like simply "Central" or "Side")
Then 16 playing style on 99 too

Total : i counted fast but 62 stats on 99 + 16 special skills : all separated SEGA was totally crazy :LOL: and it's not like Combination stats from PES 14-15!

Some mention to some who seemed kinda unique especially at the time :

-Basic : Authority, Support (Mental, seems a mix or Workrate and teamwork), Crossing Technique (Ability) / for basic stats
-Position : Counter-Attacker, Pressing player
-Playing Style : Shadow Attacker, Attacker but JUST Attacker : seems like Aggressivity in old PES i think, Lateral Attacker (there's also Winger so, not the same)

Otherwise all FIFA stats and PES on it, just not Passing speed but some others should replace it.

That's all. Just give a try for fun, the ball physic is a bit better than fifa but not PES level. Less weirdo than Football Kingdom etc., it's very special to play.
Button for attack = PES.
For Defence, Standing Tackle, Support (A bit like teammate pressing but feels and act different), and sliding tackle, GK.

All PES League on it BUT with 2nd divisions even Eredivisie, and tons of others countries clubs from Europe but also Asia/America
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Fascinating. I think I saw this title on videos, but never tried it.

Just a question.. well, THE question for me.. how much of that magnificent abundance of stats and playstyles do actually translate on field? As somebody who puts individuality on a pedestal, feels so intruiguing to think about a game with so much in it. I mean even if it's not 100% should there should still be some very impressive and tangible characterization of the players.. right?
 
Madmac79 said:
Fascinating. I think I saw this title on videos, but never tried it.

Just a question.. well, THE question for me.. how much of that magnificent abundance of stats and playstyles do actually translate on field? As somebody who puts individuality on a pedestal, feels so intruiguing to think about a game with so much in it. I mean even if it's not 100% should there should still be some very impressive and tangible characterization of the players.. right?
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I didn't played enough while you posted, but after retrying you can feel the players differences, slow, heavy, dribble, also if he's a good passer for sure.
I noticed the way passing (overally) is done : if there's a low value, the pass will be slow and won't reach a long distance, it create a lot of midfield battle, or should i say interception vs passes a lot.

Now with so much stats, it's too much especially the one about playing style and positioning (better to check a CPU vs CPU match)

I don't know how much how to interpret them honestly. And the command are pretty different i ain't that much familiarised with the game.

But it's a SIM based more than Kingdom Football, it's not easy to score neither to pass through the defence of course on higher difficulty (i didn't tried the hardest one) Also crosses have a power bar and it's very sensitive. There's a button for making a curve too, well some stuffs got a very different approach.

Well, there's some stuffs a bit let's say that the game is out a bit too late, same season as PES 6 (2006-07) and up to date.
That game could be a bit clumsy let's say in many area, but... I would qualify it as interesting and underrated/well : it's more not rated at all and completely put behind without really trying.

That's the issue when you release your first "sim" while PES was over the top in terms of selling, and people always tend to compare to it for saying if it's good or bad (never saying it was different, less good but not completely crush the game after 3 matchs on review or not make any test at all)

Well, in my free time i will really re-try the game seriously let's say, a thing i just can't with Football Kingdom or got hard to do with ISS3. That means i considers that game got a better playability than those two or better ball physics (than ISS 3 for, shoot passes etc. too straight)
 
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vialli82 said:
I didn't played enough while you posted, but after retrying you can feel the players differences, slow, heavy, dribble, also if he's a good passer for sure.
I noticed the way passing (overally) is done : if there's a low value, the pass will be slow and won't reach a long distance, it create a lot of midfield battle, or should i say interception vs passes a lot.

Now with so much stats, it's too much especially the one about playing style and positioning (better to check a CPU vs CPU match)

I don't know how much how to interpret them honestly. And the command are pretty different i ain't that much familiarised with the game.

But it's a SIM based more than Kingdom Football, it's not easy to score neither to pass through the defence of course on higher difficulty (i didn't tried the hardest one) Also crosses have a power bar and it's very sensitive. There's a button for making a curve too, well some stuffs got a very different approach.

Well, there's some stuffs a bit let's say that the game is out a bit too late, same season as PES 6 (2006-07) and up to date.
That game could be a bit clumsy let's say in many area, but... I would qualify it as interesting and underrated/well : it's more not rated at all and completely put behind without really trying.

That's the issue when you release your first "sim" while PES was over the top in terms of selling, and people always tend to compare to it for saying if it's good or bad (never saying it was different, less good but not completely crush the game after 3 matchs on review or not make any test at all)

Well, in my free time i will really re-try the game seriously let's say, a thing i just can't with Football Kingdom or got hard to do with ISS3. That means i considers that game got a better playability than those two or better ball physics (than ISS 3 for, shoot passes etc. too straight)
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The game looks beautifull (for its age) but looks a little bit choppy especially in passing and "cotrolling" animation, like it skips frames..Is it because of PS2 in 720P or due to Youtube speed-up? If it wasn't stated that it is on console, i would swear it is on emulator.
 
@
The game doesn't seems fast at all when you play, especially as passing is slow. Not sure what means choppy, but if it's related to the steps players does, it's sometimes a bit weird.

There like a limit imposed for players who don't get enough stats in pass + X thing, the ball can roll and completely stop (but there's always someone to take it, opponent or teammate)
It's not a perfect game as i said, But some test i just read where completely bashing the game like if "It's not looking like PES = Shit". Football Kingdom was a bit more like PES but i just found it too weird to play, not intuitive, shoots are boomerang-ish.
The game got higher note for the sake of more Pes-like the reference i believe.

Some will said it's a shitty game, some will said it's an averagely good F.G. with pretty nice ideas behind it. As we play with recoil... Not like the testers who gived 8/20 just because it's not like the reference. I just read one test, it's more like a message such as "play PES, it's better : we will search what wrong and said why to save your money".... They're searching the issues, not the qualities. Very professional...


Back to VPF style crossing is pretty fun and challenging, shooting got variety : for example i totally miss closer to the goal like if i was on Manual to to corner point lol.

That's something which, for example, i never found on any PS2 football game neither PES / I mean the level of miss like shooting in diagonal and the ball goes close to the corner point. Not perfect but there's a lot of possible movement, passes, dribble, shoot... Well you can't say it's not a complete game.
I'm a bit lost with all commands possible, there's a lot but thanks god the game is "plug'n'playable" without problem.

I suggest for some who can with PCSX2 to try it, now you can have it for free. It's a curiosity to try, and as you see on vid it's not that awful and looks fun. That's how i found the game.
To me, a football game bashed at the launch for some reason.
Let's say : a curiosity which football games fans not too much against retro PS2 games, some will found it fun, others will found it weird etc. but i think it deserves it's chance to be tried.
 
vialli82 said:
@
The game doesn't seems fast at all when you play, especially as passing is slow. Not sure what means choppy, but if it's related to the steps players does, it's sometimes a bit weird.

.....
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Yeah, thats exactpy what i mean by choppy. The ball after pass travels slowly, but once the pass reciever gets the ball, the next move he makes looks like someone pressed fast forward button.

In general terms, for the age the game released, it looks very good, and tries to be smooth. To remind you, most games of that era, look like FIFA 98-99-01-03 (for PSX) when we talk about smoothness, every transition happens rough and hard, like there is no inertia. Of course i know , that technology of early 00's was not all about inertia, but some games just did it better than others.

I mean games like Ronaldo-V Football, FIFA 1999 up to 2003, other PES-ripoffs for PS2, are usually very "choppy" in the steps and transitions of players after controlling the ball.

Choppy definition (to help the language barrier, as i am neither native English speaker) :

1: being roughened : CHAPPED
2: rough with small waves
3a: interrupted by ups and downs
 
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Currently going through PES5 and 6 on PS2 editing everything I can.

Does anyone know where there's a source for club or national team badges for the internal editor?

Managed to find versions of brands (Nike, Adidas, Puma, etc) but need sponsors too.
 
If you're searching logos only for O.F., there's a lot of old O.F. in "Kronos pack PES 6 and 5"
Now, if it's to assign a kit from PC i think you can found many seasons kits and you can do it with the kitserver (easier i suppose), and there's a converter from PES 2020 to PES 6. You may found everywhere tons of kits from every seasons, there's even a patch for 06-07 season and some older.

Bundle description : https://www.pes6update.net/2019/01/pes-6-pes-5-world-leagues-option-file.html
Links : http://controlc.com/0066eba3

It's easy to replace Emblems etc. with Game Graphics Studio (still needs to try on JLWE2007: there's an O.F. with kits made but no emblems > just have to replace the fakes ones)
To be honest, on PS2 i don't care, kits are okay even man made. Logos got a limited resolution you can't change it.

Personaly the issue i got is about assigning on PS2 a kits to a team unlicensed (like tons of patchs did, but on PS2 it's kinda Brasileirao or man made stats sometimes a bit too weird or overrated etc.) and they're often from a random season i don't even remember.
Well i'm more "purist" about versions : one game > X season, just because i found rosters have a big influence on Gameplay, and i authenticity, simply.

Exception that confirm the rule : PES 5/6/2008 with actual season rosters. More by curiosity but well, i like to see some actual players with old PES stats, faces etc.
But there's two main issue i got regarding editing PS2 games (often not on PC°, and tried is there's nothing to replace / as the kits are unlicensed. And it looks too complicated. Well, i don't care the have a manmade kit build on some version.. But there's not a single O.F. editor for J-League version.

Especially for JL2008cc and JL2007cc (PES 6 corrected for the 2007, very dynamic and reactive : there's less open space. The other seems like PES 2008... Perhaps even better, from what i remember the game was like the perfect PES old school i searched)
 
matherto said:
@vialli82 yeah it's on PS2 with the internal editor. Pixel editing the badges the old way using the editor found in game.

Thanks for the reply and useful info/links though :))
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Just check on the O.F., then export images and import on PES5 or 6 editor.
You can also with a 2nd memcard, on "Edit > Data Management" import every sponsors and logos, but also the kit configuration.
But you will get some issue with Sponsors colors (hint : it's often 255/255/255 but the game import it at 0/0/0 so, all black)

For a full a simple copy, better to choose "import kits/emblems/logos from PES Editor, by opening your OF, then "Tools > Import OF2" and then you can choose what to import. Be carefull if you edited players to not click on the option "import players/squad data/formation".

Well, i did the "import" all graphical stuffs, and then erased the logos and sponsors for kits i didn't need for having some place. Then i and replaced by one found on another O.F... Manually, by comparing in PCSX2, it's better to found exact matching colors (some are on 63 like current PES, some others in 255 don't remember)
Shales said:
We badly need one! Who has what it takes to create one? I’m happy to contribute money towards the efforts. Deadly serious.
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It's been decades we're asking for it. Compulsion's tools only and derivated only are available, but always for EU/US version, sad...
Yes we really need it. But how much people are interest by this, not a lot.
I saw JL2010 campaign like ML : Players got their real life pictures and all when you make transfers or check goal status, passing, etc.
Sincerely playing J-League should be probably the best experience, 2 real full division in old school game. There's Brasilian (again) patch which replace it by Brasileirao. Well i don't care about that league, but if it was PL + EFL or Serie A + B...

Whatever. The minimum is having real kits for teams in game and logos + a translation patch. That's all i would like to get personally and i'll be more than happy to have it. Teams are up to date, no need to do anything else (for some versions assigning preset faces and names, nothing long i did it for JL2007CC )
 
Shales said:
We badly need one! Who has what it takes to create one? I’m happy to contribute money towards the efforts. Deadly serious.
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You know I'm backing that!

Definitely repeating myself (certainly to you, @Shales, maybe others reading) but it is my dream to own 'clean' translations of all the J.League games with only team and player names, kits, and badges corrected. I would pay for this, or even the step-by-step instructions to create them from existing patches.

J.League OF editors have been created by FabVitor, at least for 2010, but he didn't ever make them public. This is a screenshot of 2010 but I'm sure he did others.

102385191_690851444802112_714428602798709964_n.png
 
Shales said:
We badly need one! Who has what it takes to create one? I’m happy to contribute money towards the efforts. Deadly serious.
Click to expand...

I was doing an editor of my own, for jleague we10 in fact i can make it for every version but it really takes lot of time and I don't understand how the emblems system work (how they're write in the option file) once i get some more motivation over it i will carry on with my project

Edit: just to be clear, I won't take money for doing it, just for fun, right now im having fun doing kitserver5 modules
 
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