The Retro-PES Corner

Chris Davies said:
That's one of those things that, as I've aged, I've let the AI take over for me.

When I was younger, I would set up e.g. my dad's teams to use AI substitutions and AI att/def levels, and I used to think to myself "pffft, old man". Now, I just can't be bothered with pause menus after modern games have introduced "quick subs", and if I leave att/def levels to manual, I don't use it. So... Help me, computer. My brain is withered and dying..
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I've taken to doing that if I'm dicking about with a friendly or tournament, but no half measures when it's a Master League. Strategies are different - semi-auto with the manual one being to bring the centre back up in desperation. The attack/defence method is ingrained. I did it all through PS3 FIFA too.

Chris Davies said:
That's Southgate's AI confirmed.
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Old Seabass Southgate.
 
Flipper the Priest said:
Definitely. The AI is obsessed with getting you to defend. If you ever check out the 'recommended' settings it almost always sticks you in a defensive-minded 3-6-1 or 4-5-1. Live a little, Konami.
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Yeah I noticed that when I was making the Amador teams, I had an idea to let the AI decide on formations for the teams only to quickly find out it was mostly 3-6-1 with the odd 4-5-1. Tested it on on a regular OF and if you try it on a really top team you do get a more attacking one but it seemed very rare.


These days, well these days it's actually bugger all as my graphics cards chose the wrong time to die(!) but usually now I go for auto on strategies and also auto-subs but not if it's a ML.
 
mattmid said:
Yeah I noticed that when I was making the Amador teams, I had an idea to let the AI decide on formations for the teams only to quickly find out it was mostly 3-6-1 with the odd 4-5-1. Tested it on on a regular OF and if you try it on a really top team you do get a more attacking one but it seemed very rare.


These days, well these days it's actually bugger all as my graphics cards chose the wrong time to die(!) but usually now I go for auto on strategies and also auto-subs but not if it's a ML.
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It also used to bug me how liberal Konami were with positions, and how it messed up the lineups the AI would pick for you and the CPU. Like a team would have two really good SMFs and - because one of them played 30 minutes at full back in real life - Konami would give them the ability to play at SB. You'd end up with both of the SMFs in your team, one at SB, while the real life, ever-present full back gets cut to the bench. I yearned for FM-style position ratings, with different strengths in each positions.

Not sure if that makes sense, I'm currently making coffee.
 
Flipper the Priest said:
Curious to know how my fellow retro allies us the levels. Personally I adjust it up or down at certain intervals depending on whether I'm on top (more attacking) or under the cosh (more defensive) but it all goes out the window late on if I'm losing!

Or does anyone use one of the automatic settings?
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I ve never used these stuff in my entire history with this game lol, infact none of my friends who played this game ever knew about it lol
 
Flipper the Priest said:
It also used to bug me how liberal Konami were with positions, and how it messed up the lineups the AI would pick for you and the CPU. Like a team would have two really good SMFs and - because one of them played 30 minutes at full back in real life - Konami would give them the ability to play at SB. You'd end up with both of the SMFs in your team, one at SB, while the real life, ever-present full back gets cut to the bench. I yearned for FM-style position ratings, with different strengths in each positions.
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Yeah that always bugged me too. An FM type strength for position would have been brilliant. The most recent OF's I made I started using transfrmkt which although kind of tedious with so much clicking to do you could see how many games they played at each position so could just really try to minimise it to where they actually played rather than having 6 positions because they filled in one day at RB or something and end up with the AI picking them at RB every time.

Another really fantastic find recently on PES5/WE9 (don't know if you've seen @Ciais 's thread?) He managed to track down the form arrows and has added it to the gameplay.cfg! So you can set it in there for each arrow to equal something else, meaning you can do away with up and down arrows if you want which is another thing that really makes the AI mess around with line-ups far too much I always thought. Now you can set it how you like. Well worth downloading his 1982 and 1998 beta's that have that in them and giving it a test. In fact well worth downloading anyway!
 
Flipper the Priest said:
It also used to bug me how liberal Konami were with positions, and how it messed up the lineups the AI would pick for you and the CPU. Like a team would have two really good SMFs and - because one of them played 30 minutes at full back in real life - Konami would give them the ability to play at SB. You'd end up with both of the SMFs in your team, one at SB, while the real life, ever-present full back gets cut to the bench. I yearned for FM-style position ratings, with different strengths in each positions.

Not sure if that makes sense, I'm currently making coffee.
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This is something they do even today. Fabinho plays as a situational CB cause Liverpools defense line is eliminated, Fabimho comes as a registered CB, as he was born a CB. Marquinhos of PSG this year came as registered DMF, I assume he played some matches this season as DMF.,but he was always a CB.

Azpilicueta and Mascherano are the most prominent I recall, that fell victim of this pattern.
Van Nistelrooy, if you check pesmaster in World Classics, has position affinity A in CF which is his original position, and B in second striker which makes some sense. He also has B affinity in CB. Can you name a match that Van Nistelrooy played as CB?
 
Hatrickhero said:
I ve never used these stuff in my entire history with this game lol, infact none of my friends who played this game ever knew about it lol
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This is huge. Not quite still using triangle for sprint huge but huge.

mattmid said:
Another really fantastic find recently on PES5/WE9 (don't know if you've seen @Ciais 's thread?) He managed to track down the form arrows and has added it to the gameplay.cfg! So you can set it in there for each arrow to equal something else, meaning you can do away with up and down arrows if you want which is another thing that really makes the AI mess around with line-ups far too much I always thought. Now you can set it how you like. Well worth downloading his 1982 and 1998 beta's that have that in them and giving it a test. In fact well worth downloading anyway!
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I've seen the thread bit only dipped my toe as I'm a console boy and really weird when it comes to tinkering with the game. 🙈 For example, I've spent the last two days questioning whether I can bring myself to insert a ball (just a single ball) into my WE8LE. Even though it'd be over one of the stupid heart pattern balls I'd never use!
 
geeeeee said:
Hi, good to see another PES2008 PS2 lover. I’m a bit confused do you just want to copy the stats of the pc version?

I’m not sure why the pc one won’t work sorry.
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Yes exactly. I'm editing the game at the moment. I'm trying to make national squads as realistic and reflective of the 07/08 season.

If you look at the Euro 2008 squads there are some players in those squads that are not in the actual game e.g. Simon Rolfes for Germany. The PC, PS3 and XBOX 360 versions did regular squad updates and did one for Euro 2008.

I could just copy the stats over and create Rolfes in the PS2 version. This is a lot of bother but was happy to do it on my laptop while using the PS2 but I can't get the game to install on my laptop.

It is a great game me and my two brothers play it every weekend. We play 3 player tournaments and play each other in the group stage. The Computer can be very challenging at times.
 
slamsoze said:
I unfortunatelly can't help you with no info at all. Don't you receive any error message? Maybe some incompatibility? Stupid question but do you play other games? I am asking cause many years ago, really many years, still has Windos WP, i was trying to play PES 6 in a fresh Windows install after format, clicking the .exe and nothing was happening. But i soon realised i had not installed DirectX !! :) But i think it was to play, not to install, the problem.

The next time i had similar problem with an old game, was when i was trying to again either install or play NBA live 2008 (can't recall again) from the disc to my Windows 7 systems, which i bought in a burgain in 2015.
But IIRC i was a getting a Windows-error message. But i think it was to play it again, not to install, cause IIRC i "found" a no-DVD exe and played it.

I would suggest you the usual Windows 7 excuse, try to run the setup by right click "Run as administrator" , which is an all-time classic :P , or try a different Disc, in case your copy is damaged, or try your disc in a different PC & system to check how it functions, or since you bought it and did your duty, put it in your shelf and download an abondonware version (sic!) to make some tests.
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It's been a while since I tried but I did receive an error message with an error number. I can try again and find out that number for you if you think you could help.

I don't play other games and Direct X is installed. My laptop is on it's way out to be honest. I can't even log in as an administrator due to one of many issues with this laptop, was given to me for free though so can't complain to much.
 
Anyone know a lot about editing PES for the PS2, particularly PES2008?

If so I have a series of questions lol. I edit like crazy trying to create a perfect option file that was probably created like 12 years ago anyway.
 
thebiglad25 said:
Anyone know a lot about editing PES for the PS2, particularly PES2008?

If so I have a series of questions lol. I edit like crazy trying to create a perfect option file that was probably created like 12 years ago anyway.
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Hopefully i can answer some, fire away :)
 
mattmid said:
Nah, keep it at E. W is my through ball, D for shooting and A for long pass and hacking down members of the other team :D
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I prefer W as I use middle finger and with the other two usable fingers, I can either Q-change cursor, A-tacklemcross, or E-pass through, D-shoot .
Also sometimes I pass with Enter to not reduce velocity.. . :D

Special hint: Most little finger is 99% of time on Left Shift, which I use for R2-finesse/special controls.

IIRC, FIFA99 was this setup, [q, w, e, a, s, d] from where hl I adapted keyboard set up.
 
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Do you guys have gaming keyboards by any chance? I remember not being able to lob nor shoot with R2 (C on keyboard) in any other direction than the middle of the goal, due to the limited amount of keys that I could press.
 
MarcoVB said:
Do you guys have gaming keyboards by any chance? I remember not being able to lob nor shoot with R2 (C on keyboard) in any other direction than the middle of the goal, due to the limited amount of keys that I could press.
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I can't recall if it was related to motherboard, windows, keyboard or whatever, but in my old "new" PC after PES5 with windows XP, I could use this combination, two arrow keys+shoot+R2, which I had on Left Shift as I said. For example diagonal lobbed shoot with (L1) Q + D (shoot) + two direction arrow keys was impossible, I used to get the usual beep-beep alarm.

But I remember this worked on my Maxball keyboard. On myates Microsoft keyboard couldn't even press 2 arrows+shoot+shift, still got glthe beep-beep siren.

I adapted doing piano tricks with my fingers.

I've never tried a dedicated gaming keyboard to be honest..
 
Just a quick question (to see who may be interested in this). @piospi and I have been having a conversation about old kits in these days and thought it would be good to have something like this but for older seasons (e.g. 2003-04 kits for PES 3, 2004-05 kits for PES 4, 2005-06 kits for PES 5 and so on).

I'd have loved to do something like Billy did back in the day but I can't really do that so we'd have to make do with a thread here on the forum like Pipa's one.

Would anyone be interested in it?
 
*aLe said:
Just a quick question (to see who may be interested in this). @piospi and I have been having a conversation about old kits in these days and thought it would be good to have something like this but for older seasons (e.g. 2003-04 kits for PES 3, 2004-05 kits for PES 4, 2005-06 kits for PES 5 and so on).

I'd have loved to do something like Billy did back in the day but I can't really do that so we'd have to make do with a thread here on the forum like Pipa's one.

Would anyone be interested in it?
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I'm sure it will be helpful for someone eventually. If not now - maybe in the future. If not for someone - then maybe for ourselves. We need to remember that retro community is scattered not only in space, but in time as well ; )
 
The absolute joy PES 5 is bringing me right now. Sure, it's showing it's age. But every damn match is so different. I've been awarded 3 penalties in my first 5 matches. Loads of fouls. The CPU fouls me off the ball and you get awarded the free kick. It's the small things, the tiny attention to detail which is now missing in new football games. I've been playing the PS4/PS5 footy games for so long now that I forgot how good and how unique PES 5 was/is. I can't stop playing it. I was up until 2am, sat up in my bed playing Master League on my laptop. My wife laughing at the close-up of Ray Parlour's face and Brooking's anecdotes on commentary.

To this very day, it's a work of art. The best football video game of all time, for me anyway.

Edit: Oh and injuries! I have two saves, one Man Utd and one Roma save. On my Man Utd save, Van Nistelrooy is out for ELEVEN weeks. And Darren Fletcher is injured for 3 weeks.

Why don't we get this in modern PES?! It's crazy!
 
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Mikhail said:
The absolute joy PES 5 is bringing me right now. Sure, it's showing it's age. But every damn match is so different. I've been awarded 3 penalties in my first 5 matches. Loads of fouls. The CPU fouls me off the ball and you get awarded the free kick. It's the small things, the tiny attention to detail which is now missing in new football games. I've been playing the PS4/PS5 footy games for so long now that I forgot how good and how unique PES 5 was/is. I can't stop playing it. I was up until 2am, sat up in my bed playing Master League on my laptop. My wife laughing at the close-up of Ray Parlour's face and Brooking's anecdotes on commentary.

To this very day, it's a work of art. The best football video game of all time, for me anyway.
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Couldn't agree more. My summer of footy gaming brought me back to PES 5 once again and, like you, I just can't put it down.

I played a few international tournaments and now I've gone back to my old Master League. Just started season 11 having won Div 1 and the Champions League in my last season. I've implemented a wage cap to keep things even more challenging (mainly due to the lack of offers for your own players in this era of ML).

Two matches last night had me gripped - a 1-0 defeat at home to Chelsea in which they totally sucker-punched me on the counter attack and a 3-2 away win at newly promoted Middlesboro. Came back from being behind twice and then snatched all three points with the kind of screamer of a shot you just don't see in games now.

The foul system, passing, shooting and ball physics in PES 5 are an utter joy.
 
Variety is the keyword when I find myself analysing football games, and puts PS2 PES in a very favourable light.

I recall a few weeks ago playing my Master League. In the same game (minutes apart) the goalkeeper dribbled into the box and picked up the ball, and my striker hit a snap half-volley that dipped right in front of the keeper. It was two things that I could've sworn I've never seen before. Multiple seasons into a Master League of a game that's over 15 years old and still getting wowed.

It's the spice of life and all that.
 
One thing I've noticed from playing PES2012 lately is how much of a pity it is that newer football games have so little fouls. I cannot stress how important those are to football, for so many reasons, the thing is, I already knew that, but after playing this and experiencing first hand how fouls affect the game, I'm seriously even more dissapointed that those are pretty much gone from newer ones. They allow us to have a moment to breathe, a break from all of the action, and also allow for a moment of strategic thinking without having to act fast, you have options on what to do and it's interesting to thing about what the best approach is for a specific free kick. I've had a match in my ML where I won 2x0, and both of my goals were from free kicks, the first one I took directly, the second one was from a play, a give and go, passed with the free kick taker, made him run forward with the right stick, passed back to him and then passed to the middle of the box, very efficient play in this game to be honest. Nowadays it's so common to have matches with no fouls, or when they do have it, it's usually for the CPU only and feels like it wasn't even a foul most of the time, it's so much worse now.

Another thing that I've been thinking about is the CPU itself, in the PES2022 thread we had a nice discussion about difficulty settings, and my perspective is that, well, we're playing a game where we can only control one player at a time, out of eleven, so a lot of the time it will feel cheap when we concede, we'll think about how there was nothing we could've done, or that we didn't do anything wrong, which is the worst because I do want to blame myself always, because if it's my fault then I have the control to fix it next time, if it was the AI's fault then it can happen again and I can't do anything about it. Then I started thinking about the games I currently own for PS3 and PS4, most specifically PES2012, PES2015 and PES2018, and I've realised something, that to beat us the CPU will always have to use a trick up its sleeve, there's not much that can be done about that, what can be done is not making it too obvious, and the way to achieve that is to make it so the CPU is cheap in different ways every time.

I'll explain what I mean, by comparing the games I've mentioned, and how the CPU scores in them:

PES2012
1. A low long ball through the middle. This is one of the most traditional ways for the CPU to score in a football game, a pass behind the player's defense, creating a situation where the striker only has the goalkeeper to beat, this is common in football and not too difficult to do against the CPU here, so it feels the most fair.
2. A cross from the wings into the box. This one also feels somewhat fair for the same reasons mentioned above, the main problem is that your defenders stop when a cross is made, that feels incredibly cheap, the only way around this is to manually select them and position yourself in time to head the ball, but this can be very difficult.
3. The CPU players become Messi on the ball. This kind of defines this game and it's annoying, not only because it's unrealistic, but because it artificially creates all of the other attacks mentioned here, the reason you either commit a foul, which we'll be getting to next, or that you give them space to play a long ball on the middle or wing is because you either can't tackle them, or are afraid of tackling and giving them a free kick, this is the worst one.
4. Free kicks. This is the one that feels the most ridiculous to be honest, I'd rather concede a penalty than a free kick near the box, not even kidding.

PES2015
1. A low long ball through the middle. My feelings on this are identical to before, so I won't go into much detail, since I'd just be repeating myself.
2. A mix between the cross and the Messi effect from PES2012. Here the CPU will pass until they have the ball on the wing, but instead of crossing it they'll start dribbling like Messi until they can either pass into the box or do a finesse shot, which goes in often, this is very annoying for the same reason as it was annoying before, it artificially gives them chances and it's easy to commit a foul or a penalty, even in a game like this which pretty much began the whole thing about having no fouls.

PES2018
1. A pass to the unmarked striker, who does a perfect lobbed through ball to the wings, and then they cross. This is the most used method of attacking by the CPU in this game, it's the only attack you'll be defending against pretty much all of the time, every match.

So, we went from 4 attacks, to 2, to 1. I think this demonstrates why people are getting more and more fed up with playing this series offline, as time goes by there is less variety, so matches feel even more identical. The CPU will always be a bit cheap, but if it's always cheap in the same manner it becomes very obvious and we get tired more quickly, because we're defending against the same attack again, and conceding the same goal again, if the CPU is cheap, but in a variety of ways, it'll take longer for it to become stale and frustrating, depending on how much variety there is it'll never become stale at all. Of course, there are teams in real life that only attack one way, and that's a fair argument, instead of having an AI that always attacks in different ways, we could simply have teams that attack in different ways, it'd have the same positive effect while also feeling realistic, but right now this isn't being done, for years playing offline has felt like playing the same match with minor differences, I believe that the game with the most variety is probably PES2015, believe it or not, I recall Spain being absolute possession hoarders there, in a way that I had to let them go forward to have a chance of getting the ball, they forced me to defend in a low block, much like real life Spain do to their opponents, also Real Madrid loved lobbed through balls to Ronaldo and Bale, much like in real life, we need more things like this again.
 
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reinelt97 said:
Couldn't agree more. My summer of footy gaming brought me back to PES 5 once again and, like you, I just can't put it down.

I played a few international tournaments and now I've gone back to my old Master League. Just started season 11 having won Div 1 and the Champions League in my last season. I've implemented a wage cap to keep things even more challenging (mainly due to the lack of offers for your own players in this era of ML).

Two matches last night had me gripped - a 1-0 defeat at home to Chelsea in which they totally sucker-punched me on the counter attack and a 3-2 away win at newly promoted Middlesboro. Came back from being behind twice and then snatched all three points with the kind of screamer of a shot you just don't see in games now.

The foul system, passing, shooting and ball physics in PES 5 are an utter joy.
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Can you give me some tips on shooting? I either hit a tame shot at GK or I balloon it way over! I’m playing on default controls.
 
Always try lobbing with R1 (it's easier than an L1 lob) if you're not faking a shot when you're 1 on 1 with the keeper. It's very easy to score either way. The power bar should be 100% filled (or nearly so) in the first case.

That's my advice. With longer shots, find the sweet spot in the training mode.

Also, press the lob button three times for a low cross. You can create some good opportunities that way, including forcing the CPU to score an own goal. I abused this in PES 6 and it should work just as well in PES 5.
 
MarcoVB said:
Also, press the lob button three times for a low cross. You can create some good opportunities that way, including forcing the CPU to score an own goal. I abused this in PES 6 and it should work just as well in PES 5.
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Yeah I'm pretty sure my top scorer in PESes 5 and 6 are own goals! 😄

Can't beat a triple-tap cross and let the defender's shin or keeper's inside leg do the rest.
 
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