The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[CalcioCalabrese]

In all respect not every shot goes straight at the keeper, in fact only a few now and then do, but thats still a few more than should do.
Ive planted shots in top corners, bottom corners, etc that the keeper has dived and got a finger to and kept out.
Be as negative as you like but the GK's are vastly improved over previous versions.

This.

I have seen shots that roll slowly towards the corner and think "here we go again" ala PES 2011 but no, the keeper actually grabs the ball or tips it around the post. Not one of them has trickled in for a goal, as would have happened previously.

Yes some of the saves are shots hit straight at them but I've seen some awesome saves from keepers diving to either side of them, on the ground or in the air.

If you have a 70 rated keeper make the occassional mistake, it's hardly a sound argument is it? Sure, it might look bad animation wise and you think, how did that happen, but it's just sour grapes if you can say OVERALL that keeper's are terrible.

 

[curdstar]

I guess it's down to years upon years of playing ISS & PES, after 4 shit PES games in a row PES fans should be commended for sticking around and wanting PES to get better not ridiculed.

Without pointing out the many flaws of the game how are things supposed to get better?

Think you will find many in the evo-web community (and beyond) who actually rated PES2011 as well as PES2012, while also being sure to note the games' shortcomings (which can vary from one user observation to another) but such is your penchant for massive sweeping statements and generalisations regards games (and various other topics) I shouldn't be surprised at this post of yours. If anything, some of the better feedback and ideas that can come from the various communities are that which is sculpted and carefully considered by players who can see the good and bad; not those who simply pronounce the game and those immediately previous as ''shit'' while taking a pop at those who don't see it exactly like like you do. I am certain many share your general view on the merits of this PES or those previous but the difference is (thankfully) that many of these folks respect that it isn't the one truth which should apply to all and those whose opinions differ are not entirely without merit.

Look at how you have looked to engage with the likes of Rom. There you have essentially resorted to inverted snobbery in a bid to ridicule his input to the thread, then, when he schools you with his own experiences of the development process at EA, you try to challenge that insight as being tainted or mis-informed. I actually remember an exchange you had with him over on the FSB forums regards the defensive game and you said something along the lines of ''maybe that is what football is like where you are from but here in Britain...'' blissfully unaware that rom is indeed from and lives in Britain. That pretty much sums you up - closed minded and somewhat assumptive.

You seem to think those who get any form of enjoyment from this latest instalment - or PES' from the recent past - are completely blind to any flaws and thus you pro-actively look to trash their take on things. That, or you obsess over an individual opinion (particularly the number they assign at the end of a review) and take exception to it developing further over time as though it is a sign of weakness. I do find it odd that for one so obsessed with scores in reviews you call PES2012 ''shit'' yet score it 6.5. Look anywhere in the mainstream gaming press and scoring policy will tell you a game that rates a 6.5/10 (you haven't actually stated what your scale is with your score I should add; could be out of 100 for all I know) isn't a ''shit'' game. Gamesradar recently discussed the obsession and mindset gamers have when considering reviews - scores in particular - and how they operate in extremes or challenge the score as opposed to the content of a review. I only mention this because it was yourself who got all worked about my score for this game and that previous, as well as dreaming up little reasons as to why I never scored the Wii version when in fact I think you were just lost without a number rubber stamping the review.

So far as what I can take from your input, it seems that PES would be better if those pesky Japanese weren't behind the development of the game and that the last four games ''were shit'' which begs the question(s) : why do you even engage in any PES discussion in the first place? Do you really think a simple relocation of the development would equate to it getting better? Are you honestly trying to suggest that every single facet of western design principals are infinitely superior to that found in the far east and that if Konami were to go all out ''western'' in their design and production theory that the game would retain what made ISS/PES so great in the first place?

Make no mistake, there is much Konami could learn from western game design but likewise there is much the west could learn from the east. Take a game such as Dead Rising 2. That game was outsourced to a western development team and at preview code stage much of the opinion was that everything was in place but the games combat was missing that tactile feel regards hit detection, not just at a base design level, but how each weapons attacks would feedback in relation to sensation of weight, impact and response. It actually required Capcom to intervene based on the feedback from preview testers and for them to articulate exactly what was required to achieve what the first game did so well. Elsewhere, you have the majority western developed (and tremendous) Castlevania : Lords of Shadow, in which little small but important design choices were relayed to the western development team to get things such as combat, cut-scenes and characterisation spot on.

PES has it's fair share of unique eastern design ''cues'' in place as well, which are vital not only in creating a superb videogame experience - if we were to talk about a PS2 PES - but one which ends up mimicking reality. Little things like that sense of inertia in player movement, the superb response times found in a PES5, or even that little noise of foot hitting ball when passing and it's timing in relation to user input all help craft the gameplay experience. For all that EA - a western developer - excel technically, there are still these little details they don't get right along with a few big ones such as player individuality for example. I would happily opine that a much needed focus on some kind of technical advancement by Konami and the hurdles encountered in doing so resulted in some of these little details not being quite what they should be, thus resulting in an overall inconsistent experience in recent years.

The more I play NBA2K12, the more I am of the opinion that they have that balance of western and eastern game design ideals spot-on in a variety of departments and that is why these games succeed in offering up a realistic but most importantly a ''rootsy'' videogame experience along with it. It mixes vast depth in features, admirable tech, sound design, core videogame fundamentals, social integration and charm to near perfection. that game isn't perfect, but it is doing more, and more better at that, than found in either of EA or Konami's footy titles.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Think you will find many in the evo-web community (and beyond) who actually rated PES2011 as well as PES2012, while also being sure to note the games' shortcomings (which can vary from one user observation to another) but such is your penchant for massive sweeping statements and generalisations regards games (and various other topics) I shouldn't be surprised at this post of yours. If anything, some of the better feedback and ideas that can come from the various communities are that which is sculpted and carefully considered by players who can see the good and bad; not those who simply pronounce the game and those immediately previous as ''shit'' while taking a pop at those who don't see it exactly like like you do. I am certain many share your general view on the merits of this PES or those previous but the difference is (thankfully) that many of these folks respect that it isn't the one truth which should apply to all and those whose opinions differ are not entirely without merit.

Look at how you have looked to engage with the likes of Rom. There you have essentially resorted to inverted snobbery in a bid to ridicule his input to the thread, then, when he schools you with his own experiences of the development process at EA, you try to challenge that insight as being tainted or mis-informed. I actually remember an exchange you had with him over on the FSB forums regards the defensive game and you said something along the lines of ''maybe that is what football is like where you are from but here in Britain...'' blissfully unaware that rom is indeed from and lives in Britain. That pretty much sums you up - closed minded and somewhat assumptive.

You seem to think those who get any form of enjoyment from this latest instalment - or PES' from the recent past - are completely blind to any flaws and thus you pro-actively look to trash their take on things. That, or you obsess over an individual opinion (particularly the number they assign at the end of a review) and take exception to it developing further over time as though it is a sign of weakness. I do find it odd that for one so obsessed with scores in reviews you call PES2012 ''shit'' yet score it 6.5. Look anywhere in the mainstream gaming press and scoring policy will tell you a game that rates a 6.5/10 (you haven't actually stated what your scale is with your score I should add; could be out of 100 for all I know) isn't a ''shit'' game. Gamesradar recently discussed the obsession and mindset gamers have when considering reviews - scores in particular - and how they operate in extremes or challenge the score as opposed to the content of a review. I only mention this because it was yourself who got all worked about my score for this game and that previous, as well as dreaming up little reasons as to why I never scored the Wii version when in fact I think you were just lost without a number rubber stamping the review.

So far as what I can take from your input, it seems that PES would be better if those pesky Japanese weren't behind the development of the game and that the last four games ''were shit'' which begs the question(s) : why do you even engage in any PES discussion in the first place? Do you really think a simple relocation of the development would equate to it getting better? Are you honestly trying to suggest that every single facet of western design principals are infinitely superior to that found in the far east and that if Konami were to go all out ''western'' in their design and production theory that the game would retain what made ISS/PES so great in the first place?

Make no mistake, there is much Konami could learn from western game design but likewise there is much the west could learn from the east. Take a game such as Dead Rising 2. That game was outsourced to a western development team and at preview code stage much of the opinion was that everything was in place but the games combat was missing that tactile feel regards hit detection, not just at a base design level, but how each weapons attacks would feedback in relation to sensation of weight, impact and response. It actually required Capcom to intervene based on the feedback from preview testers and for them to articulate exactly what was required to achieve what the first game did so well. Elsewhere, you have the majority western developed (and tremendous) Castlevania : Lords of Shadow, in which little small but important design choices were relayed to the western development team to get things such as combat, cut-scenes and characterisation spot on.

PES has it's fair share of unique eastern design ''cues'' in place as well, which are vital not only in creating a superb videogame experience - if we were to talk about a PS2 PES - but one which ends up mimicking reality. Little things like that sense of inertia in player movement, the superb response times found in a PES5, or even that little noise of foot hitting ball when passing and it's timing in relation to user input all help craft the gameplay experience. For all that EA - a western developer - excel technically, there are still these little details they don't get right along with a few big ones such as player individuality for example. I would happily opine that a much needed focus on some kind of technical advancement by Konami and the hurdles encountered in doing so resulted in some of these little details not being quite what they should be, thus resulting in an overall inconsistent experience in recent years.

The more I play NBA2K12, the more I am of the opinion that they have that balance of western and eastern game design ideals spot-on in a variety of departments and that is why these games succeed in offering up a realistic but most importantly a ''rootsy'' videogame experience along with it. It mixes vast depth in features, admirable tech, sound design, core videogame fundamentals, social integration and charm to near perfection. that game isn't perfect, but it is doing more, and more better at that, than found in either of EA or Konami's footy titles.

It's hard to take anything you say seriously after you gave PES 2012 a 9 in your WENB review and also PES 2011 got a 9 Well not many people did take you seriously on PESfan until you jumped ship to WENB. Of course you wont take me seriously either as i like the majority of people dont hold it anywhere near the regard as yourself....tbh i have no idea why your even replying to me as we have a huge dislike for each other and have never got along from day 1.

This thread is for people that are not happy with PES you are over the bloody moon with PES so really there is no need to be in it.

 

[Jamezinho]

So far as what I can take from your input, it seems that PES would be better if those pesky Japanese weren't behind the development of the game and that the last four games ''were shit'' which begs the question(s) : why do you even engage in any PES discussion in the first place? Do you really think a simple relocation of the development would equate to it getting better? Are you honestly trying to suggest that every single facet of western design principals are infinitely superior to that found in the far east and that if Konami were to go all out ''western'' in their design and production theory that the game would retain what made ISS/PES so great in the first place?

While I agree with your general point here, I do think there is a valid argument to be made that Konami could benefit from some Western influence. While I believe Seabass and his team in Tokyo can get the gameplay back on track given time and resources - and he should be left alone to do so - there are areas where Konami are historically bad. Presentation, menus, commentary, in game sound effects and crowd noise, and online modes would all fall into this category for me. Perhaps a small team based in Europe or North America could help 'regionalise' the game better, and make it more palatable to Western audiences? Commentary in European languages, for example, should not be left to the Japanese to script. That is something that could definitely be sub-contracted out to a European team. Same goes for crowd noise and chants.

Don't get me wrong, the Japanese charm and quirkiness is what attracted me to ISS and PES all those years ago, and I don't want that to be diluted too much, but Konami are essentially trying to create a game based on European and South American football in a country that is culturally and linguistically detached from them. Konami will never be able to fully reflect the rich football culture of these two continents in PES when they themselves are based so far away from it. They can't be expected to either, given the language and cultural barrier. The fact that they recreate profanity-laden chants and put them in the final game is all the proof you need of this.

 

[romagnoli]

Wait... Flaw3d Genuis is JohnnyFX on FSB? That's the guy who used the 'here in Britain' line.

Fully agree that Konami need to find that mix between west and east - presentation-wise in particular. I'm not sure the commentary can get up to EA's standard without an entirely separate European commentary team with a keener ear for what is right and wrong as they go.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Wait... Flaw3d Genuis is JohnnyFX on FSB? That's the guy who used the 'here in Britain' line. He was also having a go at me for criticising FIFA 12 after the playtest. When I said the contain system and standing tackles weren't effective, he said 'just use slide tackle then', and said that's how people defend in Britain. Obviously not a Ray Wilkins fan.

Not sure it is him though - after all Johnny said this about someone criticising FIFA:-

The contain in Fifa is effective. Oh and i dont hate PES hence why i have bought 3 copies of PES 2012, and i criticise Fifa plenty...not as much as you of course but i still do it.

Not sure why your bringing up old Fifa posts from another website into this??? But if you really want a laugh check this out...old post but same forum and about the PES 2012 playtest.

http://www.evo-web.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=64376

 

[lancers]

Dam, Are you to Curdster to what he is to Adam? Shit i forgot you are Xaor's little yes man

The contain in Fifa is effective. Oh and i dont hate PES, and i criticise Fifa plenty.

Not sure why your bringing up old Fifa posts from another website into this??? But if you really want a laugh check this out...old post but same forum and about the PES 2012 playtest.

http://www.evo-web.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=64376

That contain feels too assisted to me. I play sprint jockey/combo but what do I know?

 

[Ameppe]

Dam, Are you to Curdster to what he is to Adam? Shit i forgot you are Xaor's little yes man

The contain in Fifa is effective. Oh and i dont hate PES, and i criticise Fifa plenty.

Not sure why your bringing up old Fifa posts from another website into this??? But if you really want a laugh check this out...old post but same forum and about the PES 2012 playtest.

http://www.evo-web.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=64376

you can't really blame him or rodelero
he just had three-four hours to test the game. It would be wiser to blame Adam costantly praising the game while playing it for months before release

this is what i meant

Please remember that 7 hours or so of shared playing time between four people is not really enough to know exactly how the game is going to feel on release, or how the game will hold up after 5 or 6 months of continuous play. All we can do is describe the positives and the negatives, and say how we felt at the end of our time with the game.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

you can't really blame him or rodelero
he just had three-four hours to test the game. It would be wiser to blame Adam costantly praising the game while playing it for months before release

this is what i meant

I see your point but 7 hours playing and watching the game is quite a while...Adam has had plenty of stick and he did not force his opinions on people well not unless Konami had some funny dealings going on as everybody that played it at Adams house came onto the internet to say how great they thought the game was....it could be each one of them really do rate it so high but why are the rest of us unhappy with it?

 

[lancers]

I see your point but 7 hours playing and watching the game is quite a while...Adam has had plenty of stick and he did not force his opinions on people well not unless Konami had some funny dealings going on as everybody that played it at Adams house came onto the internet to say how great they thought the game was....it could be each one of them really do rate it so high but why are the rest of us unhappy with it?

Aside from the weird shooting the game stills plays OK 1v1 doesn't it?

 

[romagnoli]

I love how many times you've been told by me and others on here like Jamez that the vast majority of us were all very happy with 2012 when Demo 1 came out, yet you still go on about how I was happy

Ah, so you're Johnny. It explains the 'genuis' too. Perfect!

Ameppe - don't forget it's an unfinished game too; what we played was earlier code than the demo 1 that most everyone here liked, and we've all seen how vastly the experience can differ because of minor tweaks, through three patches and two demo releases.

 

[Ameppe]

I see your point but 7 hours playing and watching the game is quite a while...Adam has had plenty of stick and he did not force his opinions on people well not unless Konami had some funny dealings going on as everybody that played it at Adams house came onto the internet to say how great they thought the game was....it could be each one of them really do rate it so high but why are the rest of us unhappy with it?

seven hours is not enough for me to notice problems while testing a football game

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

I love how many times you've been told by me and others on here like Jamez that the vast majority of us were all very happy with 2012 when Demo 1 came out, yet you still go on about how I was happy

Ah, so you're Johnny. It explains the 'genuis' too. Perfect!

Explains a simple spelling mistake?

I loved your playtest thread so i was wondering when are we getting your review?

seven hours is not enough for me to notice problems while testing a football game

Really? After about 2 hours play i could tell things were not quite upto scratch and the game still didnt have the magic of the PS2 games which should be the standard dont you think? Rather than just being better than PES 2008 or 2010 etc.

 

[curdstar]

It's hard to take anything you say seriously after you gave PES 2012 a 9 in your WENB review and also PES 2011 got a 9 Well not many people did take you seriously on PESfan until you jumped ship to WENB. Of course you wont take me seriously either as i like the majority of people dont hold it anywhere near the regard as yourself....tbh i have no idea why your even replying to me as we have a huge dislike for each other and have never got along from day 1.

This thread is for people that are not happy with PES you are over the bloody moon with PES so really there is no need to be in it.

Talk about proving my point....as well as putting words into my mouth.

I see your point but 7 hours playing and watching the game is quite a while...Adam has had plenty of stick and he did not force his opinions on people well not unless Konami had some funny dealings going on as everybody that played it at Adams house came onto the internet to say how great they thought the game was....it could be each one of them really do rate it so high but why are the rest of us unhappy with it?

That in bold is priceless... and again you say ''the rest of us'' as if to suggest absolutely everybody sees it exactly like you do.

While I agree with your general point here, I do think there is a valid argument to be made that Konami could benefit from some Western influence. While I believe Seabass and his team in Tokyo can get the gameplay back on track given time and resources - and he should be left alone to do so - there are areas where Konami are historically bad. Presentation, menus, commentary, in game sound effects and crowd noise, and online modes would all fall into this category for me. Perhaps a small team based in Europe or North America could help 'regionalise' the game better, and make it more palatable to Western audiences? Commentary in European languages, for example, should not be left to the Japanese to script. That is something that could definitely be sub-contracted out to a European team. Same goes for crowd noise and chants.

Don't get me wrong, the Japanese charm and quirkiness is what attracted me to ISS and PES all those years ago, and I don't want that to be diluted too much, but Konami are essentially trying to create a game based on European and South American football in a country that is culturally and linguistically detached from them. Konami will never be able to fully reflect the rich football culture of these two continents in PES when they themselves are based so far away from it. They can't be expected to either, given the language and cultural barrier. The fact that they recreate profanity-laden chants and put them in the final game is all the proof you need of this.

I fully agree that in relation to commentary and some other 'cultural' details the franchise could do with a team(s)who could offer some research and consultancy that would help achieve the goal of making the game that little more authentic.

I am talking to a fan of NBA2K series and I am sure you have noticed how the commentary is near perfect both in terms of it's response to the on-court action, as well as having some rather informative chatter to boot. I love the way they can talk about something like a Euro NBA division at depth, get interrupted by a n on-court event and offer detailed comment on the play and individual, then seamlessly go back to what they were talking about initially. I think Konami should look to achieve similar with the CL mode - allow the commentary team to make comment and discuss at length a player or a teams CL history - both in the current season and further back - while still being sharp enough to pick up on key events. Elsewhere, they should really pump up the presentation values in CL mode; let it flow like a broadcast with a studio presenter introducing the match before handing over to commentary, then the commentary in turn handing over to the studio presenter at half time who could summarise the first half with broadcast cuts before a break which builds up other fixtures. Maybe have Gabriel clarke or whatever his name is to pass on some pitch-side comment as well. Really make the whole mode broadcast authentic and tied in to the real life tournament like NBA Today is. Along with that, have a crowd that reacts to more of what happens in the game, be that a foul, great clearance, or dying minutes push to grab an important result. Make it the games premier selling point.

In other modes, just beef up the sound design, commentary and overall broadcast authenticity during matches that while not maybe having the same level of polish as that found in the CL mode, still immerse the player in the ''pretendo-verse'' which ML, BaL and other tournaments exist. Man, just look at MyPlayer in NBA in which you can spend your wages and it can improve form, abilities, chemistry with the team and even your rapport with your support. They already do little things in PES with big signings and alike, just increase the variety and make these more involving not to mention carrying some impact or consequence.

@rom - It is 100% JohnnyFX aka jfx aka DJ JFX aka 3star(temp username used to send threats to me on PESFan)

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Talk about proving my point....as well as putting words into my mouth.



I fully agree that in relation to commentary and some other 'cultural' details, the franchise could do with a team(s)who could offer some research and consultancy that would help achieve the goal of making the game that little more authentic.

I am talking to a fan of NBA2K series and I am sure you have noticed how the commentary is near perfect both in terms of it's response to the on-court action, as well as having some rather informative chatter to boot. I love the way they can talk about something like a Euro NBA division at depth, get interrupted by a n on-court event and offer detailed comment on the play and individual, then seamlessly go back to what they were talking about initially. I think Konami should look to achieve similar with the CL mode - allow the commentary team to make comment and discuss at length a player or a teams CL history - both in the current season and further back - while still being sharp enough to pick up on key events. Elsewhere, they should really pump up the presentation values in CL mode; let it flow like a broadcast with a studio presenter introducing the match before handing over to commentary, then the commentary in turn handing over to the studio presenter at half time who could summarise the first half with broadcast cuts before a break which builds up other fixtures. Maybe have Gabriel clarke or whatever his name is to pass on some pitch-side comment as well. Really make the whole mode broadcast authentic and tied in to the real life tournament like NBA Today is. Along with that, have a crowd that reacts to more of what happens in the game, be that a foul, great clearance, or dying minutes push to grab an important result. Make it the games premier selling point.

In other modes, just beef up the sound design, commentary and overall broadcast authenticity during matches that while not maybe having the same level of polish as that found in the CL mode, still immerse the player in the ''pretendo-verse'' which ML, BaL and other tournaments exist. Man, just look at MyPlayer in NBA in which you can spend your wages and it can improve form, abilities, chemistry with the team and even your rapport with your support. They already do little things in PES with big signings and alike, just increase the variety and make these more involving not to mention carrying some impact or consequence.

@rom - It is 100% JohnnyFX aka jfx aka DJ JFX aka 3star(temp username used to send threats to me on PESFan)

DJ JFX YAAAAAAAAASSS! Here we fucking go sunshine!

 

[Rantboy]

So, bought this game back in October but wasn't playing because I was moving home and a lot of stuff... only started playing again now. And what can I say, I am + 1 here who's NOT happy with PES 2012/

This is the most frustrating game of the series, if we consider only single player mode. Multiplayer versus still can be a lot of fun, as the AI cheating element isn't there.

This certainly have been covered here before (sorry I'm just too lazy to track all the older posts) but I have to voice my discontent. The major hurdle playing this game on Top Player and Superstar difficulties is defending against the AI right?

I'm not asking to win every ball, but the ratio of successful challenges is a freaking joke... if you go in a challenge using only X, it will be either the CPU dribbling past you like you were made of air, or you will get the player's leg. From there, you will either have a free kick against you, or the CPU will half-stumble out of the challenge and keep running strong with the ball. The AI has the ability to do that, which I just don't see my players doing.

So, I looked everywhere in the web for tips and tutorials and it seems that only the hold up play will work on one-on-one situations. I don't like this one bit. Konami forces us to defend in one way only: hold up play. You have to hold the AI up, and use square while praying that your teammate will nick the ball away...

If you use R2 + R1 + X all together, I noticed your chance for a clean tackle increases a lot, but only if the CPU decides to dribble you. Otherwise, it will be a face-off that will give the AI all the time it needs to wait and pass the ball for another player.

This is the most stupid defensive system I've ever seen in a footie game. It feels so arcade, to mark with hold up, and you can even release the analog directions! Just hold R2 and X and your player locks to the attacker... and that's all there is to it! This game feels so "on rails" it's not even funny.

Was preparing myself to play a ML, but I think I'll spare myself of the frustration. Got FIFA12 in a console bundle and will definitely give it a go, after 3 years without playing a FIFA game. It cannot be as bad as PES this year, can it??

 

[romagnoli]

It baffles me that more clearly isn't made of the fact that the people Konami hire for commentary are professional commentators, yet they clearly don't write their own scripts as their FIFA counterparts do. It can't just be down to fitting the dialogue to the logic scripts, because there are far more natural ways to convey the same info.

 

[curdstar]

It baffles me that more clearly isn't made of the fact that the people Konami hire for commentary are professional commentators, yet they clearly don't write their own scripts as their FIFA counterparts do. It can't just be down to fitting the dialogue to the logic scripts, because there are far more natural ways to convey the same info.

I agree fully. The existing method is awfully antiquated. Can't say too much or shed any further light other than late last year I was sent a spreadsheet by Konami to complete regards commentary that asked for feedback on the existing commentary and for potential solutions/alternatives.

 

[Ektor70]

It's actually funny to see how most sport games sooner or later have introduced the "player lock" defensive feature. And it has been a major disaster in all the attempts.

To me locking a player is simply a wrong concept in itself. It is static, CPU bases, unrealistic, ungratifying and pretty redundant. This feature in pes is also poorly implemented and unintuitive (why would i press 2 buttons and then release 1?). I think it was a major disaster in nba2k as well.

Which brings me the my main point: last couple of years have been lost in many senses. I don't use this r2 defending stuff, i don't use the player trigger button (i'd rather use 1-2 passes) i don't use the selection players on free kicks as i feel like it is cheating (ball goes magically to the selected player).

Overall, konami newest idea have been a total failure. bring back semplcity like in the old ps2 days and focus on animations, ball physics, gameplay balance and smart AI. There is really no need for a lot of the stuff introduced lately.

There is also tons of game modes i'd like to see. first of all coop master league on line!!

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

It would be nice if the audio team would stop the Japanese to English translations within the scripts. Now, I can't say for sure and admit I'm only guessing, but the script they put in front of Champion and Beglin must be a poorly translated script, hence the awkward almost nonsensical way they speak sometimes. I'll quote my all time favourites from PES2011;

"The order of the boot applied" and "He couldn't hit a barn door let alone the corner flag"!

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Oh and on the subject of people moaning about the game, me included, anyone wondering why we do have to consider that we're all lifelong PES fans. We also dropped £40 on a product that we don't like and is misrepresentative of the demos that sold us the game. This,combined with a general interest in PES as a series, means people are airing their views.

I'm not sure why it seems to offend some people, it is a specifically designated thread designed so that the other threads for people who enjoy the game aren't ruined. If people dont like the thread then don't read it. Simple really.

 

[xPJRx]

"The order of the boot applied" and "He couldn't hit a barn door let alone the corner flag"!

It got to the point in PES11 where, if i heard the order of the boot line, i would shiver with anger!!!!

Fully agree re the commentary and poorly translated scripts.
It also nneeds to be more intelligent, proper commentary lines firing during the right actions on screen.
Currently we get Champion scream " ITS A HEADER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" very viciously and loud like it was a header on goal in the 90th min of the world cup final, but all i did was win an unmarked header on the half way line.
Also "He's gone for the chip" when it was actually a 20 yard daisy cutter.
Another one.. "He really should have done better with that chance, It was easier to score than miss" said when I hit a 25 yard scissor kick which went an inch over the bar.

Just far too many unrealistic and inappropriate lines firing at the wrong times.

 

[Primepeace]

can someone help me on how to setup the game on the pc like the settings etc i just wanna play pes 2012, i have in the passed uninstalled the game and then reinstalled it, i can't get the game running like i wanted it to be can please someone give me ideas on how it should be run on a pc

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

It got to the point in PES11 where, if i heard the order of the boot line, i would shiver with anger!!!!

Fully agree re the commentary and poorly translated scripts.
It also nneeds to be more intelligent, proper commentary lines firing during the right actions on screen.
Currently we get Champion scream " ITS A HEADER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" very viciously and loud like it was a header on goal in the 90th min of the world cup final, but all i did was win an unmarked header on the half way line.
Also "He's gone for the chip" when it was actually a 20 yard daisy cutter.
Another one.. "He really should have done better with that chance, It was easier to score than miss" said when I hit a 25 yard scissor kick which went an inch over the bar.

Just far too many unrealistic and inappropriate lines firing at the wrong times.

LOL I find the same sound issues wind me up too, especially the screaming "header!!" one. Yeah I've hit 35 yard dipping free kicks before that practically shave the outside of the post and the commentator says stuff about missing easy chances and that it was "easier to score". I can only assume that testers within Konami pick up on this stuff but it ultimately gets ignored.

 

[pj_puttz]

Regarding the defending, does anyone on this thread ever play BAL?

It's the best way to see the AI struggle with the crappy new "jockeying" defensive technique.

Basically what happens is an AI controlled player will bring the ball forward very slowly, usually approaching the opponents penalty box, and the AI controlled player in your team will lock into the jockeying animation thus backing off the player and allowing him to stroll unopposed into your box. The rest of your team just stand around watching this ridiculous scenario play out. This happens pretty often, at least once or twice per game I would say. No AI player EVER backs off when YOU go at them though, it only happens when two AI players go up against each other.

It's really pretty comical to watch. Or it would be if I hadn't spent £40 on the game and was really looking forward to a decent BAL mode.

Just another feature of PES 2012 which has me reaching for the reset button on my PS3.

 

[Ektor70]

Regarding the defending, does anyone on this thread ever play BAL?

It's the best way to see the AI struggle with the crappy new "jockeying" defensive technique.

Basically what happens is an AI controlled player will bring the ball forward very slowly, usually approaching the opponents penalty box, and the AI controlled player in your team will lock into the jockeying animation thus backing off the player and allowing him to stroll unopposed into your box. The rest of your team just stand around watching this ridiculous scenario play out. This happens pretty often, at least once or twice per game I would say. No AI player EVER backs off when YOU go at them though, it only happens when two AI players go up against each other.

It's really pretty comical to watch. Or it would be if I hadn't spent £40 on the game and was really looking forward to a decent BAL mode.

Just another feature of PES 2012 which has me reaching for the reset button on my PS3.

a video would be welcomed!

 

[Rob92]

Has anybody ever won a penalty out of interest?

In a word... No

This is a strange one - for me, mainly playing online but against the CPU also, I've won many penalties.
In PES 2012 they are given for standing tackles as well as sliding tackles, first time for a football game to do that (in a while anyway), means you can't just mindlessly charge in on the ball carrier inside the box...

I must have won 4 or 5 penalties simply by nipping the ball away from a defender and their momentum meaning they clatter my player and concede the peno. I have to say I preferred PES 2011's penalty system though, much more skilful.

 

[pj_puttz]

a video would be welcomed!

Sorry mate, cant do it from work and cant be arsed doing it when I get home.

I'd rather spend the few short hours I get to play my PS3 these days playing a game I actually enjoy.

Have a few goes on BAL and you're bound to see it for yourself. The AI player on your team walks backwards as the AI opponent walks forward with the ball and they become locked in that ridiculous dance while the ball is carried into your box.

Anyone else ever seen it happen?

 

[Rantboy]

It's actually funny to see how most sport games sooner or later have introduced the "player lock" defensive feature. And it has been a major disaster in all the attempts.

To me locking a player is simply a wrong concept in itself. It is static, CPU bases, unrealistic, ungratifying and pretty redundant. This feature in pes is also poorly implemented and unintuitive (why would i press 2 buttons and then release 1?). I think it was a major disaster in nba2k as well.

Which brings me the my main point: last couple of years have been lost in many senses. I don't use this r2 defending stuff, i don't use the player trigger button (i'd rather use 1-2 passes) i don't use the selection players on free kicks as i feel like it is cheating (ball goes magically to the selected player).

Overall, konami newest idea have been a total failure. bring back semplcity like in the old ps2 days and focus on animations, ball physics, gameplay balance and smart AI. There is really no need for a lot of the stuff introduced lately.

There is also tons of game modes i'd like to see. first of all coop master league on line!!

Too true mate, I couldn't agree more!
I remember I used to play NBA Live in the 90's when I was a teenager, but when EA introduced a "face-off/locking/jockeying" or whatever you call it, that was it for me. This was in NBA Live 2000, if I'm not mistaken.

Now, 12 years later Konami introduces this infamous mechanism in their best franchise. I know it was already in PES 2011, but it was just a nice addition, to buy you sometime when opponents hit you on the break.
Now in PES 2012 this is the main way of defending, and without it you can't defend.

I also avoid at all costs using the automatic free kicks.
On corner kicks it's pointless, because whichever way you move your player, the CPU will be tightly locked on you and will never allow a free header. I actually have more success taking corners in the old fashioned way, just putting the ball with curve in dangerous spots.

The most ridiculous moments though, come when you have a free kick some 35 meters out. If you select a player and position it beyond the offside line, the CPU player will stick to you and play you onside! So you can even position your CF right in front of the keeper, and you will get away with it! AI is dumb enough not to hold the defensive line.

I'm sorry to say this, cause I'm a big fan of the series since the PS1, but this is the most Arcade version I've ever played. Will be giving FIFA12 a chance after years and I expect, surprisingly enough, that EA's game will be more 'organic'.

Just bring the simplicity back, that's what has won us over! I'm totally with you.

 

[romagnoli]

Having contain attached to two buttons makes sense because of the buttons used. R2 is jockey, often used when you want to manually stand off; X is press. You can then either release R2 to go in for the tackle, or release X to revert to manually 'containing' the dribbler.

I agree that neither FIFA nor PES seems to have implemented the lock-on properly. FIFA did improve it from the playtest and the early videos where the defender was literally 1:1 with the attacker, to the microsecond. But it'd be far better if the dribbler had proper momentum that we'd then have a chance of dealing with ourselves (none of this speed merchant nonsense or FIFA's lossless sub-90 degree turns).

If less capable players still need a contain system, then more responsibility and control needs to be given to the user while locked into the contain. The ability to tweak your position to the left or right, in particular.