PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

[Chris Davies]

It is a problem,stamina and fatigue need to factor in more but I wouldn't put myself in a situation where I was playing that kind of player..it's not a reflection of the experience I have playing friends or playing the cpu in pes16 and it won't be with 17.

You're right, of course - however, I don't think that we should give them an excuse to forget about making the game playable online for people who watch / play / love actual football.

The dream for me - excluding the best career mode ever (and an online career mode) - is to be able to play online and win by having the better knowledge of football and tactics, taking the right risks.

At the moment, online is worse than just being laggy - it's always-perfect first-time passes, wondergoals and silly scorelines. It's kids who spam buttons, use exploits (through-balls over the top all day long) and shoot from 40 yards out, and score, and your only way of competing is to do the same thing back. Never mind the technical issues, get a netcode guy in and that's fixed. The gameplay is the issue.

The other game has got closer and closer to nailing it online for a long time now - I've not had to play against Barcelona or Real Madrid for literally years, for one thing, and I can specify that my opponent uses semi-manual controls (and there's usually someone there), there's not as many exploits (though they still exist of course), and it feels like a much, much fairer fight.

If the passing etc. in that infamous video of FIFA player vs FIFA player is a one-off, caused by both sides playing constant-pressure counter-attacking football, that's fine. If you can put together passing like that with any team, though, then it'll be the same.

But it's not possible to know what will be the case, yet.

I'm still hopeful - there's a lot we don't know. I'm itching to see how well the mid-match tactics work - and also how they work in the Master League. If I want my team to play "gegenpress", do I need to train them first? Or will they instantly be great at it?

 

[Ameppe]

That video is horrible, this example is the embodiment of everything I hate about the new direction they went, this belongs in FIFA not in PES:

Well, in this clip you can also see the through ball is not so powerful as it used to be, it's quite slow, the ball slows down considerably but the gaps left by defenders who went pressing like crazy are so big it's impossible to reach the attacker.

 

[Han]

Well, in this clip you can also see the through ball is not so powerful as it used to be, it's quite slow, the ball slows down considerably but the gaps left by defenders who went pressing like crazy are so big it's impossible to reach the attacker.

In previous versions the through ball was too easy/powerfull. I will be happy if it is a bit more difficult in PES 2017.

 

[zeemeister]

Yes i agree, but even though, the mediocre defensive AI, the zero error in passing and shooting gives us the resault we saw in the latest gameplay video.

And because we judge a video, i saw an mlo video yesterday of PES 2011. Even if players want to play exactly the same style of play (fast, ping-pong), the game itself and especially the very good defensive AI discourage them. Yes, this game had a lot of flaws but i post it only to show the AI and some errors in passing. Gamechanger!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-r_b_BW_RI

I used to play ping pong deluxe in PES 2011. Was the last PES with only one assistance setting. I used to hammer teams like Holland, Argentina, Brazil with my mighty south African said playing football like Barcelona.

Shooting was also pretty easy but far more intuitive than anything after.

 

[Banksy]

You're right, of course - however, I don't think that we should give them an excuse to forget about making the game playable online for people who watch / play / love actual football.

The dream for me - excluding the best career mode ever (and an online career mode) - is to be able to play online and win by having the better knowledge of football and tactics, taking the right risks.

At the moment, online is worse than just being laggy - it's always-perfect first-time passes, wondergoals and silly scorelines. It's kids who spam buttons, use exploits (through-balls over the top all day long) and shoot from 40 yards out, and score, and your only way of competing is to do the same thing back. Never mind the technical issues, get a netcode guy in and that's fixed. The gameplay is the issue.

The other game has got closer and closer to nailing it online for a long time now - I've not had to play against Barcelona or Real Madrid for literally years, for one thing, and I can specify that my opponent uses semi-manual controls (and there's usually someone there), there's not as many exploits (though they still exist of course), and it feels like a much, much fairer fight.

If the passing etc. in that infamous video of FIFA player vs FIFA player is a one-off, caused by both sides playing constant-pressure counter-attacking football, that's fine. If you can put together passing like that with
any team, though, then it'll be the same.


But it's not possible to know what will be the case, yet.

I'm still hopeful - there's a lot we don't know. I'm itching to see how well the mid-match tactics work - and also how they work in the Master League. If I want my team to play "gegenpress", do I need to train them first? Or will they instantly be great at it?

I feel these things aren't impossible fixes and making the game have a degree of assistance but not to much would make a big difference(as you say the other game,has bridged this gap better and I wouldn't argue there's more error even on assisted)

Bringing in a much more robust stamina/fatigue system in pes,where you have to manage and think about how hard you drive your team and the impact of this has to be better orchestrated and far more noticeable.

I still think these things will come..it just boils down to balancing and these feels gradually being refined and itergrated without breaking the game..

 

[Matt10]

It's all about balance, isn't it? PES just cannot seem to showcase the proper balance, yet. They seem to go from extreme to another extreme. Where is the middle ground?

Some that have played the game more say there is a balance, and it is a good showing defensively. I find that very hard to believe, because their standards of good defense may differ than mine.

I don't think we can keep defaulting to saying "wait till the demo" or "wait till the game is in your hands". I think that is a give up phrase, and those of us who have been begging for a proper PES game care enough to voice our opinions - because we're the ones who are usually let down.

 

[shez]

It's all about balance, isn't it? PES just cannot seem to showcase the proper balance, yet. They seem to go from extreme to another extreme. Where is the middle ground?

Some that have played the game more say there is a balance, and it is a good showing defensively. I find that very hard to believe, because their standards of good defense may differ than mine.

I don't think we can keep defaulting to saying "wait till the demo" or "wait till the game is in your hands". I think that is a give up phrase, and those of us who have been begging for a proper PES game care enough to voice our opinions - because we're the ones who are usually let down.

I believe Konami should give the users tools to customize the offline experience once and for all.

The older PES had logo,kit,league,stadium editors. Couple this with gameplay sliders that affects gk difficulty,ref harshness,attribute effects,faitgue and injury then you'll put this issue to bed IMHO.

Add it as a paid dlc i dont care, In PES 6 you used to buy stuff with in game points. I used to buy a new camera mode!

Otherwise it looks like an arcade game sadly so far.

 

[saturator]

I will definitly wait the demo. Too much differents videos with differents feelings. We didn't know what kind of seetings they used.
I prefer judge by myself

 

[Deco]

I used to play ping pong deluxe in PES 2011. Was the last PES with only one assistance setting. I used to hammer teams like Holland, Argentina, Brazil with my mighty south African said playing football like Barcelona.

Shooting was also pretty easy but far more intuitive than anything after.

South Africa were one of the hardest teams to beat in the early ISS and Pro Evo games . .. .I used to dread playing them in the World cup could never get past them.

 

[Banksy]

It's all about balance, isn't it? PES just cannot seem to showcase the proper balance, yet. They seem to go from extreme to another extreme. Where is the middle ground?

Some that have played the game more say there is a balance, and it is a good showing defensively. I find that very hard to believe, because their standards of good defense may differ than mine.

I don't think we can keep defaulting to saying "wait till the demo" or "wait till the game is in your hands". I think that is a give up phrase, and those of us who have been begging for a proper PES game care enough to voice our opinions - because we're the ones who are usually let down.

You can only base these things on what's available or what's been available before as a reference point..

No good shooting for the stars or dreaming up perfect football games that replicate reality in even the tiniest of details.

Let's not forget we are playing a game that has to strike the balance of being a game and replicating a very complex sport.

Pes16 already offers a game which caters for users who choose to play with less assistance or the stabilisers on..With assistance it's easy,way to easy but you can't alienate those that don't have the experience or skill and don't want to have to control power as well as direction when they first play the game.

Isn't this a case of people who can play using assistance as a way of winning at all costs,having a advantage and just exploiting something that isn't there for that purpose.

Your a smart guy Matt,but I also think your not seeing something in pes16 which many see..I still think your
Basing your views on a game that cuddles the user,letting them make mistake after mistake against pes which insists you overlap players back and how just having one player slightly out of position can alter the position the rest of your team are in.

Like I've said before,pes now will spank you,again and again,if you make the most simplest of errors(misplaced passes,gaps,or lack of awareness of where your players are or what you need to be doing to slot them back into position.Its impacts and has a knock on effect on everything.

This is why I dispute pes16 is a dumb arcade game...yes the keepers need to be better,we all know about the scripting on the higher levels,how simplified the game becomes on lower difficulties or when it's heavily assisted..

Improvements do need to be made but that takes times and let's wait and see what pes17 brings first..

 

[Chris Davies]

Your a smart guy Matt,but I also think your not seeing something in pes16 which many see..I still think your
Basing your views on a game that cuddles the user,letting them make mistake after mistake against pes which insists you overlap players back and how just having one player slightly out of position can alter the position the rest of your team are in.

"Cuddles the user", ugh, are you kidding me?

This "my game is for the hardcore, your game is for mummies boys" crap is really wearing thin, especially when some of those "hardcore" say things like "I will never play the other game" like a scared child who doesn't want their friends to think they've gone soft, by playing the game they don't like.

You've said yourself, both games do things differently (gameplay-wise) and both are successful at achieving different things that the other would benefit from. One week ago, you said PES was rubbish, now you're saying it's brilliant - you've explained why, but surely you can see why some would already take your posts with a pinch of salt, especially when you use language like that.

Your argument that the game which doesn't have laser-guided passes and easy bottom-corner goals, and 4-0 scorelines is the game that DOESN'T "cuddle you" (I've been playing PES 2016 for the last month, because there's a much greater variety in how the AI plays - not just jumping onto a negativity bandwagon, see the ML thread)...

I'm enjoying the sensible analysis in this thread, positive and negative, but this type of language doesn't belong in the thread, and it doesn't suit you, because you make good points. For example - I agree with you that we need to play the game before we can jump to certain conclusions, but here's the thing... Before the videos were released there were plenty who said "we need to see videos before we can make a judgement", and now that we have those videos, judgement is suddenly a silly idea until we get the demo - at which point, it'll be stupid to have an opinion based on the demo, you'll need to play the full game.

I think Matt's point is that, in his opinion, you can see some things in the videos that shouldn't happen no matter what the tactics are, and video evidence is, well, exactly that - evidence (we're only a step away from "it'll be better in the final build so stop pointing out things and adding to the discussion")...

 

[zeemeister]

Some that have played the game more say there is a balance, and it is a good showing defensively. I find that very hard to believe, because their standards of good defense may differ than mine.

I don't think we can keep defaulting to saying "wait till the demo" or "wait till the game is in your hands". I think that is a give up phrase, and those of us who have been begging for a proper PES game care enough to voice our opinions - because we're the ones who are usually let down.

Dude we can't ignore the fact that we haven't played it yet lol. Ridiculous idea.

 

[Banksy]

"Cuddles the user", ugh, are you kidding me?

This "my game is for the hardcore, your game is for mummies boys" crap is really wearing thin, especially when some of those "hardcore" say things like "I will never play the other game" like a scared child who doesn't want their friends to think they've gone soft, by playing the game they don't like.

You've said yourself, both games do things differently (gameplay-wise) and both are successful at achieving different things that the other would benefit from. One week ago, you said PES was rubbish, now you're saying it's brilliant - you've explained why, but surely you can see why some would already take your posts with a pinch of salt, especially when you use language like that.

Your argument that the game which doesn't have laser-guided passes and easy bottom-corner goals, and 4-0 scorelines is the game that DOESN'T "cuddle you" (I've been playing PES 2016 for the last month, because there's a much greater variety in how the AI plays - not just jumping onto a negativity bandwagon, see the ML thread)...

I'm enjoying the sensible analysis in this thread, positive and negative, but this type of language doesn't belong in the thread, and it doesn't suit you, because you make good points (for example - I agree with you that we need to play the game before we make too final a judgement, but here's the thing, once the demo's released, I bet there's a fair few people who will say "we need to play the retail version before we really know if it's a good football game", and I think that's Matt's point).

Putting words into my mouth again and making statements that I never made..

One isn't as you say more hardcore then the other,it works on a slightly different principal and the way the game is designed allows you to make mistakes that in real football would be more easily punished..Sorry Chris that's my opinion and yes it is related to the ai,but also a deliberate design choice..

Don't bark up the wrong tree,I'm a pes man first and foremost but I still enjoy what the competitor does and does well.

 

[Banksy]

You can't exploit space or mistakes like you can in pes in golliath..it just has this way of forcing you only be able to score off certain situations and there's no real advantage in working the ball..because it's near impossible to suck the opposing team or players out of position..they recover to well and to quickly(it's the illusion of balance).

You also can score within 3 passes in pes if the opposing players aren't set right(just like reality)..it's near on impossible in golliath because it's not a game designed where the real pay-offs are in pass and move..

That's why it lacks tactics and every player and team just feel the same.

 

[RAMAXWY]

I will definitly wait the demo. Too much differents videos with differents feelings. We didn't know what kind of settings they used.
I prefer judge by myself

aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh their is still wisdom left among us.

feel the same way.

just try it before you buy it.

 

[Matt10]

I believe Konami should give the users tools to customize the offline experience once and for all.

The older PES had logo,kit,league,stadium editors. Couple this with gameplay sliders that affects gk difficulty,ref harshness,attribute effects,faitgue and injury then you'll put this issue to bed IMHO.

Add it as a paid dlc i dont care, In PES 6 you used to buy stuff with in game points. I used to buy a new camera mode!

Otherwise it looks like an arcade game sadly so far.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind those features, and I would not mind paying by a DLC, as long as I can play my PES, right? Totally fine with it, as long as the value is there.

You can only base these things on what's available or what's been available before as a reference point..

No good shooting for the stars or dreaming up perfect football games that replicate reality in even the tiniest of details.

Let's not forget we are playing a game that has to strike the balance of being a game and replicating a very complex sport.

Pes16 already offers a game which caters for users who choose to play with less assistance or the stabilisers on..With assistance it's easy,way to easy but you can't alienate those that don't have the experience or skill and don't want to have to control power as well as direction when they first play the game.

Isn't this a case of people who can play using assistance as a way of winning at all costs,having a advantage and just exploiting something that isn't there for that purpose.

Your a smart guy Matt,but I also think your not seeing something in pes16 which many see..I still think your
Basing your views on a game that cuddles the user,letting them make mistake after mistake against pes which insists you overlap players back and how just having one player slightly out of position can alter the position the rest of your team are in.

Like I've said before,pes now will spank you,again and again,if you make the most simplest of errors(misplaced passes,gaps,or lack of awareness of where your players are or what you need to be doing to slot them back into position.Its impacts and has a knock on effect on everything.

This is why I dispute pes16 is a dumb arcade game...yes the keepers need to be better,we all know about the scripting on the higher levels,how simplified the game becomes on lower difficulties or when it's heavily assisted..

Improvements do need to be made but that takes times and let's wait and see what pes17 brings first..

When I started writing for FSB, I was told that the #1 thing the game developers are trying to find is the perfect balance for sim vs arcade - this has ringed true in my views for a while now. This is why I aim for modifications that can be done on all platforms, vs before I used to just focus on the PC because of it's software possibilities, etc.

PES16 is a game I put hours into. I mean hours upon hours, upon consecutive hours. I only archived about 5% of that time on Twitch, but the intent was to get it to play somewhat challenging. The end product of PES16 was a lot that was left to be desired. It was small things that turned into bigger things. Such as the far post glitch, the suspended animation keepers, the over-aggressive defender animations and the complete empty feeling of scoring a goal - because 80% of your strikes are purely struck, and 60% of those go in. This was an example of the extreme for PES going further than it should, how can a beautifully struck shot, let alone goal, be appreciated when it happens so often? What got me excited, in PES 16, is when my keeper would make a 1 on 1 save .

The way I see it is, and why voicing our opinions/assumptions early on, is because we've been burned before. Look at PES16, a solid base, that had these little issues, and then they turned out to be huge. Did anyone say anything for the demo? Or the PES community days? Was it made aware to KONAMI of what potential this game had, "if only this, that and the other" was done? I think that's why you see a lot more voice from guys who haven't played it. We've been burned before, and it's human nature to feel like it's going to happen again. So we're protecting ourselves by providing logical arguments and cases that support the fact that our voice hasn't been heard - instead, there is some guy who wants to play arcade football against his mates, which takes place as the resounding feedback. PES16 had so much potential. I mean look at this archive of mine on Twitch. The play in the midfield is superb! Yet, it's too easy to get chances, and when the chances are converted it feels fairly...flat.

http://www.twitch.tv/matt10l/v/16758413

At the end of the day, PES 17 is probably already gold now - so agree with you, and we'll just have to see what shows up.

"Cuddles the user", ugh, are you kidding me?

This "my game is for the hardcore, your game is for mummies boys" crap is really wearing thin, especially when some of those "hardcore" say things like "I will never play the other game" like a scared child who doesn't want their friends to think they've gone soft, by playing the game they don't like.

You've said yourself, both games do things differently (gameplay-wise) and both are successful at achieving different things that the other would benefit from. One week ago, you said PES was rubbish, now you're saying it's brilliant - you've explained why, but surely you can see why some would already take your posts with a pinch of salt, especially when you use language like that.

Your argument that the game which doesn't have laser-guided passes and easy bottom-corner goals, and 4-0 scorelines is the game that DOESN'T "cuddle you" (I've been playing PES 2016 for the last month, because there's a much greater variety in how the AI plays - not just jumping onto a negativity bandwagon, see the ML thread)...

I'm enjoying the sensible analysis in this thread, positive and negative, but this type of language doesn't belong in the thread, and it doesn't suit you, because you make good points (for example - I agree with you that we need to play the game before we make too final a judgement, but here's the thing, once the demo's released, I bet there's a fair few people who will say "we need to play the retail version before we really know if it's a good football game", and I think that's Matt's point).

I think what gets lost upon the discussion of specifics is we talk about end results versus how those results came about. If I am losing 4-0 every match, the assumption would be that the game is hard. However, I'm losing 4-0 because my teammate AI is off catching butterflies across the stadium.

If we discuss what is happening, we have to start identifying why it's happening. The PES17 videos have been all about what is happening, but not many talk about why that occurs. In the videos I've seen, about 90% of the shot attempts are a product of over-aggressive, leave gaps wide open, defending by both teammate AI and CPU. Noone talks about that though, and that's what I tried to illustrate in my PES video from last week.

Dude we can't ignore the fact that we haven't played it yet lol. Ridiculous idea.

Noone said to ignore the fact. If that's how it came across, my apologies, but all I'm saying is the default retort has been "Just wait for the game" or "wait for the demo". Why do I have to wait? What if what is identified right now gives whoever has power in feedback-land to get back to PES group and fix something for a patch update? What if it hits the nerve of a big time youtuber that realizes how easy his ML matches are because the CPU defenders are leaving gaps wide open - and there is no solution? Who knows. Never hurts to try, but it hurts more to shut down and say nothing.

 

[RAMAXWY]

You can't exploit space or mistakes like you can in pes in golliath..it just has this way of forcing you only be able to score off certain situations and there's no real advantage in working the ball..because it's near impossible to suck the opposing team or players out of position..they recover to well and to quickly(it's the illusion of balance).

You also can score within 3 passes in pes if the opposing players aren't set right(just like reality)..it's near on impossible in golliath because it's not a game designed where the real pay-offs are in pass and move..

That's why it lacks tactics and every player and team just feel the same.

 

[Chris Davies]

You can't exploit space or mistakes like you can in pes in golliath..it just has this way of forcing you only be able to score off certain situations and there's no real advantage in working the ball..because it's near impossible to suck the opposing team or players out of position..they recover to well and to quickly(it's the illusion of balance).

Can't argue with that - my most common complaint about it is that the defensive line is perfect no matter who you play and what defenders they play. I'd forgotten what it's like to play a good through-ball and get a one-on-one and tuck it away - in-fact, it was scoring one of those that convinced me to go back to PES this year.

It just makes me laugh how they're almost total opposites, it's spooky. In "Goliath", I can never create a good one-on-one because of how perfect the opposition defence is (even with manual through-passing, which annoys me no end) - in PES, through-balls are way too easy to pull off and score from... In "Goliath", it's all 0-0s and 1-0s and every game feels way too similar, in PES it's 4-0 wins and 4-0 defeats because there's no balance (in AI or in "team spirit")...

When it comes to the gameplay videos of both, my biggest worry is that neither game looks (and it is only "looks" at the moment) like they've moved away from any of these deeper issues. I can't do another 12 months of 0-0 stalemates (as Liverpool, against Huddersfield Town) on FIFA, and I can't do another 12 months of feeling detached from my goals because they're all such screamers.

That said, I absolutely live in hope.

 

[hitmanuk]

Well, in this clip you can also see the through ball is not so powerful as it used to be, it's quite slow, the ball slows down considerably but the gaps left by defenders who went pressing like crazy are so big it's impossible to reach the attacker.

In that video it goes from perfect pass to perfect pass. 7 passes from goalie to a 1 on 1 situation..Not one of the players were marked properly and all had too much space to receive the ball and shift it on to the next unmarked player

 

[Chris Davies]

In that video it goes from perfect pass to perfect pass. 7 passes from goalie to a 1 on 1 situation..Not one of the players were marked properly and all had too much space to receive the ball and shift it on to the next unmarked player

To be fair, A) you can see that the guy in control of the defending team is literally running every defender straight forward, creating those gaps, B) his tactical set-up could feature conservative marking (which he's breaking by trying to press with every one of his players), C) we don't know what the difficulty level is set to (which affects the intelligence of the defenders), and D) marking shouldn't always be perfect, especially when it's Barcelona destroying your shape.

That doesn't mean I think it's perfect and that I can't see the "laser passing" etc. but I could forgive a goal like that if I was trying to run forward with every player I had... I just hope you can't play that way with any team against any team (no matter their setup), or playing online will be a waste of time (again). BUT... Considering I've only seen this one video so far where it happens so easily, I'm clinging onto hope.

 

[rockstrongo]

The hardest thing,in my mind,is creating "thinking" players.
Especially when it comes to defending,they're all programmed to move in certain areas,do certain things.
One thing I want to see,is the brilliant thing they had in PES 14? Where you could move your def line up and down manually while playing.

I get furious sometimes playing PES 16, where defenders just move away from the ball,especially while CPU attacks you in the box,that's down to "handicap" "scripting" so it shouldn't be a problem fixing?or me being faster to controll that player before it happends.
I play a lot of NBA 2k,and as long as I play the way my tactics are set up,the more I win,same thing for PES 16,if I set up "all out defence/contain middle,and play opposite of that,well you figure out for your self what happends next.
Play smart,and this game/most PES games plays well,not super,but great

But like I said above,"thinking" players,and "human" behaviour in players,were a long way from that.

 

[Chris Davies]

One thing I want to see,is the brilliant thing they had in PES 14? Where you could move your def line up and down manually while playing.

You can do that in 16, you know that right?! You just press left/right on the D-PAD!

 

[zeemeister]

Hitman you only comment on shit videos. Come now man we know you don't like it.

 

[hitmanuk]

Yeah you are probably right in that its down the way the players are playing it..i would like to see a single player game on a decent level on manual controls to really get an idea how it plays out to see if the main AI issues have been sorted..in two player mode it looks a bit of a frenzy

 

[rockstrongo]

You can do that in 16, you know that right?! You just press left/right on the D-PAD!

Thanks mate.
You see,didn't have a f... clue.
And I call myself PES

 

[Chris Davies]

Thanks mate.
You see,didn't have a f... clue.
And I call myself PES

Glad to help! I find it's the only way to keep your defensive line deep enough against the better teams.

Your other point:

I get furious sometimes playing PES 16, where defenders just move away from the ball,especially while CPU attacks you in the box,that's down to "handicap" "scripting" so it shouldn't be a problem fixing?or me being faster to controll that player before it happends.

This stuff is the single reason why I stopped playing PES for a few years. Within a few days of playing PES 2016, I uploaded a video where I was running towards a loose ball, clearly about to reach it, and then there was an animation "hiccup" where he started walking instead of running. The CPU reaches the loose ball as a result, and at that point, I can't carry on, because I'm not playing a game, I'm a spectator, my input has no bearing on the result.

But this stuff stays in the game because - as you rightly say, individual player intelligence and awareness is really difficult to code. So when you're playing against a great team, and they have to beat you because your team isn't good enough, but it can't do it by outplaying you within the rules, it has to bend them - and if it didn't, we'd win every game, because the AI isn't good enough yet.

As time goes on, and the code gets better, they might be able to take those crutches away - but bear in mind some of them have been there since the PS1 days, let alone the last generation...

Ten years ago, I thought CPUs would be powerful enough to avoid all that shit, and here we are, with much more powerful CPUs, and the same old cheats.

 

[rockstrongo]

Glad to help! I find it's the only way to keep your defensive line deep enough against the better teams.

Your other point:


This stuff is the single reason why I stopped playing PES for a few years. Within a few days of playing PES 2016, I uploaded a video where I was running towards a loose ball, clearly about to reach it, and then there was an animation "hiccup" where he started walking instead of running. The CPU reaches the loose ball as a result, and at that point, I can't carry on, because I'm not playing a game, I'm a spectator, my input has no bearing on the result.

But this stuff stays in the game because - as you rightly say, individual player intelligence and awareness is really difficult to code. So when you're playing against a great team, and they have to beat you because your team isn't good enough, but it can't do it by outplaying you within the rules, it has to bend them - and if it didn't, we'd win every game, because the AI isn't good enough yet.

As time goes on, and the code gets better, they might be able to take those crutches away - but bear in mind some of them have been there since the PS1 days, let alone the last generation...

Ten years ago, I thought CPUs would be powerful enough to avoid all that shit, and here we are, with much more powerful CPUs, and the same old cheats.

You're spot on mate.
I've haven't experienced it as frequently now,as before,talking about PES 16.
But,that scripting is tough to deal with sometimes,somehow,I can accept it when it comes to CPU suddenly becoming very sharp in off,but making my players thick,that's hard to swallow.
Been getting around that by playing tighter (more narrow) defence,and man marking strikers.
Yeah let's hope those things disappears.

Good post Chris

 

[PES94]

That video is horrible, this example is the embodiment of everything I hate about the new direction they went, this belongs in FIFA not in PES:

You're actually deceiving people with this. You can see the player on Barca side opened more gap to the other player, if you look down you can see he was on a red bar meaning not balanced nor defense. But in an attacking position. Some people need to get a grip, not everyone is gonna play like you.

 

[PESNinja]

You're actually deceiving people with this. You can see the player on Barca side opened more gap to the other player, if you look down you can see he was on a red bar meaning not balanced nor defense. But in an attacking position. Some people need to get a grip, not everyone is gonna play like you.

I'm deceiving people by showing gameplay? okay.
Many excuses can be made for it, I'm not in that business... if you think that's perfectly fine due to X and Y then so be it.

Personally I know this is what expects me online the day I boot up the game, because this is now their main target and to whom the game is designed for.

ps: he is not on the "red bar" meaning he's not on the "all out attack", his team is more attacking focused (orange) which is normal because he's losing.

 

[cowden_harley]

You're actually deceiving people with this. You can see the player on Barca side opened more gap to the other player, if you look down you can see he was on a red bar meaning not balanced nor defense. But in an attacking position. Some people need to get a grip, not everyone is gonna play like you.

Give yourself peace mate. You might actually be one of the PR team in disguise.

The original poster is right. No matter how you play that shouldn't be possible. Its just constantly pressing pass. No error, no change of pace to any of the passes. Lazer guided bullshit.