PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

[CalcioCalabrese]

Barca plays lazer guieded passes in reality YES...BACKWARDS. They hold on to the ball and move forward only with the obvious/safe passes. Very rare when they go for the risky pass and that only happens in the final 3rd.

Agree.
And the only time they play quick passes is when they're close together and facing the same way.

If you watch that video/gif, one of the passes is a blind 180 degree pass that isn't scuffed. It's perfectly struck and then the next pass is too and so on. At least ONE of those passes shouldn't be perfectly hit or exactly to the player's feet, given their body shape and distance from each other.

Drawing a parallel between that GIF and the best passing team in the world is delusional as not even they can do it.

 

[DuduBR9]

https://youtu.be/6iHbJqlUHC0


I really, really enjoyed that video

Pace is on point here, just perfect!

Even the movement on the ball feels more natural, hardly lsaw any skating moment.

Passing animations are so much improved, long balls, clearances from keepers, there are some top animations there and more variety than in any other PES that came before it.

I like how Atl. madrid played organized defensively, midfield defenders position well close to the box.

But one negative point that thetruebrits mentioned, and a really big one, is the total absance of fouls. Barça pressure a lot, so its impossible to not have a good amount of fouls irl on a match like that.

Looks like this game is going to be tons of fun on manual. Im pretty confident about it. Many of us will enjoy this game offline, including those who are not so optimistic about the game yet.

Lets just hope CPU is better here. CPU does not made any fouls there, but Barça as well didnt play anything like tiki-taka and possession football.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

https://youtu.be/6iHbJqlUHC0


I really, really enjoyed that video

Pace is on point here, just perfect!

Even the movement on the ball feels more natural, hardly lsaw any skating moment.

Passing animations are so much improved, long balls, clearances from keepers, there are some top animations there and more variety than in any other PES that came before it.

I like how Atl. madrid played organized defensively, midfield defenders position well close to the box.

But one negative point that thetruebrits mentioned, and a really big one, is the total absance of fouls. Barça pressure a lot, so its impossible to not have a good amount of fouls irl on a match like that.

Looks like this game is going to be tons of fun on manual. Im pretty confident about it. Many of us will enjoy this game offline, including those who are not so optimistic about the game yet.

Lets just hope CPU is better here. CPU does not made any fouls there, but Barça as well didnt play anything like tiki-taka and possession football.

Too many outside of the foot passing animations. And always outstretched, like people are under pressure and making a lunge. Not sure who at Konami has that animation fetish lol.

I actually didn't like that video as much as some other ones I've seen. Not in terms of gamepace but ball physics, animations etc. Looked too similar to PES 2016 whereas some other videos I've seen look like a noticeably improved version of PES 2016.

 

[Polter2k_2k8]

Gifs from Bond1 Elotrolado

Jordi Alba

 

[Matt10]

https://youtu.be/6iHbJqlUHC0


I really, really enjoyed that video

Pace is on point here, just perfect!

Even the movement on the ball feels more natural, hardly lsaw any skating moment.

Passing animations are so much improved, long balls, clearances from keepers, there are some top animations there and more variety than in any other PES that came before it.

I like how Atl. madrid played organized defensively, midfield defenders position well close to the box.

But one negative point that thetruebrits mentioned, and a really big one, is the total absance of fouls. Barça pressure a lot, so its impossible to not have a good amount of fouls irl on a match like that.

Looks like this game is going to be tons of fun on manual. Im pretty confident about it. Many of us will enjoy this game offline, including those who are not so optimistic about the game yet.

Lets just hope CPU is better here. CPU does not made any fouls there, but Barça as well didnt play anything like tiki-taka and possession football.

How can there be fouls with so much space on the pitch? Players are at least 2-3 yards lagging behind. The ball moves so fast and the touches are so perfect, I mean....there's no way a physical confrontation can occur, until proper pressure on a player is created.

I just need to accept we're looking for different things out of the game - but again 90% of those chances were a result of bonehead defending animations. TTB even mentioned it about the crossing goals. Those occur because the defenders are warping back and forth. They'd be better off putting walkers from TWD there just so they can stay still for crying out loud.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Agree.
And the only time they play quick passes is when they're close together and facing the same way.

If you watch that video/gif, one of the passes is a blind 180 degree pass that isn't scuffed. It's perfectly struck and then the next pass is too and so on. At least ONE of those passes shouldn't be perfectly hit or exactly to the player's feet, given their body shape and distance from each other.

Drawing a parallel between that GIF and the best passing team in the world is delusional as not even they can do it.

YES!!! Thats where pass error should come in to play also PASSING TECHNIQUE regarding how high for a player the more often could pull off unortodox passes.


fuck thats all i a need a PES where passing is spot on and fun and same goes for shooting. i dont even bother about skating or players being out of position. friggin fundamentals are ....not broken but arcade being lazer guided and if someone brings up manual controls ill hang myself
OR at least introduce 3 bar shooting assistance aswell

 

[feetbol]

I remember in WE9, once you made a pass, the cursor would change to the player most likely to receive your pass, then you would have to move the receiving player towards the ball or into position to receive the pass or the opposing team would often times get to the ball first... It prevented players from just making a pass and waiting around for the next player to automatically receive it....this was an awesome mechanic and I was wondering if it still works this way in pes 2017...

 

[zeemeister]

Lol . . could have avoided that stone with sliders.

And the assist on that trow "on fricking rails"

So we into 3 pages of discussing a shit video, played by 2 fifa people no less. Have we any idea what pass settings they using? Or does that not matter so long as the video fits the agenda?

On anything higher than 1 bar PES has been forgiving I dont agree that this is right but there is a way to overcome ping pong laser guided passes.

I was a huge advocate of bigger passing error till I scrutinised it and saw what the average pass rate is in real life football and to be honest anything above 75 is the norm these days in the top tiers we all watch.

Imagine the shit storm that would ensue if Iniesta or Messi couldn't pass a ball with pace 5 yards? The way Mascherano distributes the ball across field is something truly spectacular. Besides Barcelona all the Spanish teams have fantastic pass accuracy.

Shooting so far I will admit is a little too 1 dimensional on PES in that there isn't as much variation in trajectories but again you could go full manual and really feel a challenge. There are too many opinions and likes to please everyone.

Btw the every shot on goal is on target or a goal is a complete lie.

Played PES 2016 against a mate he was Arsenal and I used my favorite but least favourite to use on PES FC Barcelona and it was fantastic. Fouls, cards, on target shots, off target shots great save to the point it made me worry that keepers may be over powered on 2017 and an adequate amount of passes being intercepted or misplaced.


I am wondering how many people have actually played PES 2016 in its current form.

 

[hitmanuk]

I've played PES in it's current form and it's still got most of the same issues it had on release barring the GK.

People might have been discussing the video with the two shit players but if thats the case then you can bet 95% of online games are going to be like that too. And besides even if the players are shit the passing still should be able to be perfect every time

The video above against the AI is another matter. Still no fouls which just ruins it..if people are only getting one or two fouls a game then it just doesn't represent football, and far too much space and perfect passing.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Those GIFs look good!

 

[Deco]

I've played PES in it's current form and it's still got most of the same issues it had on release barring the GK.

People might have been discussing the video with the two shit players but if thats the case then you can bet 95% of online games are going to be like that too. And besides even if the players are shit the passing still should be able to be perfect every time

The video above against the AI is another matter. Still no fouls which just ruins it..if people are only getting one or two fouls a game then it just doesn't represent football, and far too much space and perfect passing.

Speaking of fouls in that video . .most of the play is pass and run ..nobody put their foot on the ball or tried that much dribbling which is where most fouls will occur . .not making excuses there should be fouls but most of the players don't hold on to the ball long enough.

 

[Deco]

So we into 3 pages of discussing a shit video, played by 2 fifa people no less. Have we any idea what pass settings they using? Or does that not matter so long as the video fits the agenda?

On anything higher than 1 bar PES has been forgiving I dont agree that this is right but there is a way to overcome ping pong laser guided passes.

I was a huge advocate of bigger passing error till I scrutinised it and saw what the average pass rate is in real life football and to be honest anything above 75 is the norm these days in the top tiers we all watch.

Imagine the shit storm that would ensue if Iniesta or Messi couldn't pass a ball with pace 5 yards? The way Mascherano distributes the ball across field is something truly spectacular. Besides Barcelona all the Spanish teams have fantastic pass accuracy.

Shooting so far I will admit is a little too 1 dimensional on PES in that there isn't as much variation in trajectories but again you could go full manual and really feel a challenge. There are too many opinions and likes to please everyone.

Btw the every shot on goal is on target or a goal is a complete lie.

Played PES 2016 against a mate he was Arsenal and I used my favorite but least favourite to use on PES FC Barcelona and it was fantastic. Fouls, cards, on target shots, off target shots great save to the point it made me worry that keepers may be over powered on 2017 and an adequate amount of passes being intercepted or misplaced.


I am wondering how many people have actually played PES 2016 in its current form.

If you go over to the Master League thread you will see the answer is two of us. .although we're branching out now and have two more . .I think Banksy said he was playing it as well. It's totally different to what it was especially in a competition like Master league. .some great football to be played.

 

[Banksy]

So we into 3 pages of discussing a shit video, played by 2 fifa people no less. Have we any idea what pass settings they using? Or does that not matter so long as the video fits the agenda?

On anything higher than 1 bar PES has been forgiving I dont agree that this is right but there is a way to overcome ping pong laser guided passes.

I was a huge advocate of bigger passing error till I scrutinised it and saw what the average pass rate is in real life football and to be honest anything above 75 is the norm these days in the top tiers we all watch.

Imagine the shit storm that would ensue if Iniesta or Messi couldn't pass a ball with pace 5 yards? The way Mascherano distributes the ball across field is something truly spectacular. Besides Barcelona all the Spanish teams have fantastic pass accuracy.

Shooting so far I will admit is a little too 1 dimensional on PES in that there isn't as much variation in trajectories but again you could go full manual and really feel a challenge. There are too many opinions and likes to please everyone.

Btw the every shot on goal is on target or a goal is a complete lie.

Played PES 2016 against a mate he was Arsenal and I used my favorite but least favourite to use on PES FC Barcelona and it was fantastic. Fouls, cards, on target shots, off target shots great save to the point it made me worry that keepers may be over powered on 2017 and an adequate amount of passes being intercepted or misplaced.


I am wondering how many people have actually played PES 2016 in its current form.

I must admit I've had lots of cracking games the last week or so on pes16 in its current form..

Very underrated game by a lot of former pes players who I believe are just fixated like many are now with hyper realistic presentation and a smooth online experience..

Still the highest rated sports game,has the best passing and it rewards those who work the ball...

All the right tuning in all the right places and pes17 could be a megatron..people come on here and bitch about pes because golliath doesn't give them the feeling,however good it is on a technical level(that said pes still does many things better).

I'm sure many will be bowled over by frostbite irrespective of the game under the hood..it's the industry now...for all the strides made in animation,physics,ai by Goliath it's never bettered pes at its best and they've never really evolved gameplay,worked out what tactics are,or understood team differences..that's why people come back.

 

[RAMAXWY]

I must admit I've had lots of cracking games the last week or so on pes16 in its current form..

Very underrated game by a lot of former pes players who I believe are just fixated like many are now with hyper realistic presentation and a smooth online experience..

Still the highest rated sports game,has the best passing and it rewards those who work the ball...

All the right tuning in all the right places and pes17 could be a megatron..people come on here and bitch about pes because golliath doesn't give them the feeling,however good it is on a technical level(that said pes still does many things better).

I'm sure many will be bowled over by frostbite irrespective of the game under the hood..it's the industry now...for all the strides made in animation,physics,ai by Goliath it's never bettered pes at its best and they've never really evolved gameplay,worked out what tactics are,or understood team differences..that's why people come back.

Amen!

 

[RAMAXWY]

So we into 3 pages of discussing a shit video, played by 2 fifa people no less. Have we any idea what pass settings they using? Or does that not matter so long as the video fits the agenda?

On anything higher than 1 bar PES has been forgiving I dont agree that this is right but there is a way to overcome ping pong laser guided passes.

I was a huge advocate of bigger passing error till I scrutinised it and saw what the average pass rate is in real life football and to be honest anything above 75 is the norm these days in the top tiers we all watch.

Imagine the shit storm that would ensue if Iniesta or Messi couldn't pass a ball with pace 5 yards? The way Mascherano distributes the ball across field is something truly spectacular. Besides Barcelona all the Spanish teams have fantastic pass accuracy.

Shooting so far I will admit is a little too 1 dimensional on PES in that there isn't as much variation in trajectories but again you could go full manual and really feel a challenge. There are too many opinions and likes to please everyone.

Btw the every shot on goal is on target or a goal is a complete lie.

Played PES 2016 against a mate he was Arsenal and I used my favorite but least favourite to use on PES FC Barcelona and it was fantastic. Fouls, cards, on target shots, off target shots great save to the point it made me worry that keepers may be over powered on 2017 and an adequate amount of passes being intercepted or misplaced.


I am wondering how many people have actually played PES 2016 in its current form.

this is were PES excels. playing the AI can be fun but competing against friends or someone that knows the game, with his own style and tactics is just an unbelievable experience and is very addictive.
i never got the same Feeling PES gives me out of other multiplayer games.

seeing someone use moves and tactis you haven't even thought of or didn't even know and seeing it work for them pressuring you to adept etc.
sometimes you just even use a team you aren't a fan of but somehow their syle of play fits you perfectly.
this year i have done things to friends who used Barca and Madrid using Cristal Palace.
u gotta work harder using weak teams but it is do-able
they are a relatively weak team but when i use my tactics and playing method i just gel so perfectly with them. i could even give the AI (Bayern Munich OR Barcelona )a hard time.
why? because the tactics work.

so when people praise Goliath every year and the marketing is stunning as usual i always go out and buy it just because i love the sport and don't wanna miss out on something great.
but after giving it a good try i always come to the conclusion that marketing (commercials) and presentation can convince people into seeing and feeling things that aren't there.

it has never reached the level of PES or let me just say i never experienced it

 

[romagnoli]

As soon as I read someone use the word 'Goliath', I move on to the next post.

 

[Banksy]

As soon as I read someone use the word 'Goliath', I move on to the next post.

Its not mocking romagnoli(not on my part anyway)..just away of referencing without mentioning the f word..

The comparisons are being drawn continuously and it's clear a lack of news in the other thread is causing some to just repeat many of the same flawed arguments(especially Matt).

Some just don't listen,and just love to keep highlighting the negative stuff without ever really highlighting the good..and it's the same suspects.

I feel a lot of us who play pes16 know the defending can be brilliant but at times also a little off..this idea that they allow space,don't cover just has no grounding.

 

[Rayven_king]

just curious have they showed any other defensive tactics besides the gegenpress

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Speaking of fouls in that video . .most of the play is pass and run ..nobody put their foot on the ball or tried that much dribbling which is where most fouls will occur . .not making excuses there should be fouls but most of the players don't hold on to the ball long enough.

That's a very valid point though. I know that when you try walking or a step over and a quick touch of the sprint button for example, the AI is making a split second decision and that's when they're most likely to foul you.

 

[PESNinja]

Its not mocking romagnoli(not on my part anyway)..just away of referencing without mentioning the f word..

The comparisons are being drawn continuously and it's clear a lack of news in the other thread is causing some to just repeat many of the same flawed arguments(especially Matt).

Some just don't listen,and just love to keep highlighting the negative stuff without ever really highlighting the good..and it's the same suspects.

I feel a lot of us who play pes16 know the defending can be brilliant but at times also a little off..this idea that they allow space,don't cover just has no grounding.

I'm yet to see someone refute his arguments with logic, it's mostly emotional arguments from people that are too attached to the brand and can't even accept the mess that PES 2016 was.

For example: "he only highlights the negatives not the good", if you want a particular game to get better you highlight what it does wrong, not what it does right and considering some of the things that it does wrong are still fundamental gameplay building blocks... it's easy to understand why the keep nailing on the same things.

The guy seems like a very reasonable person not burnt out by the years and years of broken promises and BS, that is putting forward some fair analysis videos that even some of the "David vs. Goliath" crowd could appreciate.

 

[persee]

I'm yet to see someone refute his arguments with his logic, it's mostly emotional arguments from people that are too attached to the brand and can't even accept the mess that PES 2016 was.

For example: "he only highlights the negatives not the good", if you want a particular game to get better you highlight what it does wrong, not what it does right and considering some of the things that it does wrong are still fundamental gameplay building blocks... it's easy to understand why the keep nailing on the same things.

The guy seems like a very reasonable person not burnt out by the years and years of broken promises and BS, that is putting forward some fair analysis videos that even some of the "David vs. Goliath" crowd could appreciate.

Spot on.

"Goliath" lmao

 

[cowden_harley]

The good news is we will get a shot of it soon. Gamescom under a week away now.

 

[Banksy]

I'm yet to see someone refute his arguments with his logic, it's mostly emotional arguments from people that are too attached to the brand and can't even accept the mess that PES 2016 was.

For example: "he only highlights the negatives not the good", if you want a particular game to get better you highlight what it does wrong, not what it does right and considering some of the things that it does wrong are still fundamental gameplay building blocks... it's easy to understand why the keep nailing on the same things.

The guy seems like a very reasonable person not burnt out by the years and years of broken promises and BS, that is putting forward some fair analysis videos that even some of the "David vs. Goliath" crowd could appreciate.

The burned argument..you pay your money you make your choice and even though pes hasn't reached the dizzy heights of yesteryear,it still for many has offered great value because there's always been a descent game under the hood(even in the worst years albeit maybe 2008/9.

The reason I haven't responded to Matt is because it's fruitless..his vision of a game is based more on the way golliath does things and himself stated he's been part of that development process.Thats not a bad thing he just looks at things without seeing that what we have now isn't the finished article,it's the base of something that could potentially be brilliant if it's executed right.

Pes values are different and while I've also been frustrated over the years,pes16 stepped up and I genuinely feel we are only seeing a fraction in 16 of what this game could be in 17 and beyond..

I want pes to still be relevant because even in 16 with all its shortcomings,it has moments that many games fail to replicate nowadays,and this transcends well beyond tech.

Maybe pes17 just isn't for you and a polished 16 with elements we just don't know about yet might not be what you seek.

For me pes16 still has the essence of what made pes on the ps2 so good,it just hasn't been properly fine tuned and fleshed out.

Naturally your draw on the negative people because it serves your voice.And what are the negatives.You keep talking about the fundamentals but have never really broken anything down..it's just the same arcade mess comments.

 

[romagnoli]

I'm leaning more towards PES than FIFA but I think it's only fair that, in the FIFA thread, people now refer to PES as the Cockroach. Not being disrespectful, just that people don't want to talk about the P-word in there so let's just go with the Cockroach being stomped by the Shoe analogy.

In fact, let's just have everybody in society use derogatory euphemisms to talk about things outsiders like, and respond to reasoning or evidence with shrugged shoulders and claims you're being overly pessimistic, that you don't hold PES values at heart.

We're all tired of listening to experts these days aren't we. Coming over here with your pictures and your videos and your explanations.

 

[Banksy]

I'm leaning more towards PES than FIFA but I think it's only fair that, in the FIFA thread, people now refer to PES as the Cockroach. Not being disrespectful, just that people don't want to talk about the P-word in there so let's just go with the Cockroach being stomped by the Shoe analogy.

In fact, let's just have everybody in society use derogatory euphemisms to talk about things outsiders like, and respond to reasoning or evidence with shrugged shoulders and claims you're being overly pessimistic, that you don't hold PES values at heart.

We're all tired of listening to experts these days aren't we. Coming over here with your pictures and your videos and your explanations.

There's a clear line between those that are being objective and those that beat pes with the same tired stick.

I have my own mind rom,I make my own distinctions and I where possible try to offer a bit of balance not just negative hating on a game.

There's analysing and there's just seeing what's in your minds eye.

 

[RAMAXWY]

I'm yet to see someone refute his arguments with his logic, it's mostly emotional arguments from people that are too attached to the brand and can't even accept the mess that PES 2016 was.

For example: "he only highlights the negatives not the good", if you want a particular game to get better you highlight what it does wrong, not what it does right and considering some of the things that it does wrong are still fundamental gameplay building blocks... it's easy to understand why the keep nailing on the same things.

The guy seems like a very reasonable person not burnt out by the years and years of broken promises and BS, that is putting forward some fair analysis videos that even some of the "David vs. Goliath" crowd could appreciate.

WAUW talk about fooling yourself.
using a video as solid proof that a game looks bad is kind of understandable but when u make a statement that it is bad whitout taking into account everything else that is important to know that matters, now that is just wrong.
judging a video game its AI mearly on the input of human players is pure nonsence.

this is what seperates PES from Goliath, your tactics and settings matter.

the passing looks easy (but we need to know the used settings)the animations look good (not that impressive) the goalkeepers look improved (very impressive)the foul system still looks debatable, the shooting seems much better and the scanned faces are topnotch.

that is giving an honest breakdown of what we have seen till now.
that's why we need the demo for ourselves to make a proper judgement.

what u said that makes perfect sense is that u need to talk about what is wrong in a game to make it better. fully agree with that.
but when u only highlight the minuses it gives the wrong impression doesn't it?

you don't hear Goliath's fans yelling it of rooftops that player abilities, tactics and playing styles in their game are non existent.
they mostly concentrate on the authenticity and game modes they love so much.

what matters to me is the gameplay, how it feels, how my input matters, the tactics work and the teams feel different.
so yes i am sreaming for them to keep those things intact because i really don't want them to go Goliath's route.

 

[RAMAXWY]

I'm leaning more towards PES than FIFA but I think it's only fair that, in the FIFA thread, people now refer to PES as the Cockroach. Not being disrespectful, just that people don't want to talk about the P-word in there so let's just go with the Cockroach being stomped by the Shoe analogy.

In fact, let's just have everybody in society use derogatory euphemisms to talk about things outsiders like, and respond to reasoning or evidence with shrugged shoulders and claims you're being overly pessimistic, that you don't hold PES values at heart.

We're all tired of listening to experts these days aren't we. Coming over here with your pictures and your videos and your explanations.

come on man.
does it really bother you that much?

have a sense of humor. it usually helps you live longer.

 

[romagnoli]

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=Satire

 

[rockstrongo]

"Goalkeepers are shit on 16 mate"
No they're not,what I hope for in 17, and what I've seen on vids etc,they've tuned them very good,being more active,if you look at Neur in 17 he plays the style he plays irl.
Being active,not standing on the line etc.
Anyone who's played ML on 16 recently knows keepers aren't that easy to break down.
All my games vs Juve and Buffon have been a nightmare
Thank god he's retired

 

[PESNinja]

Spot on.

"Goliath" lmao

There isn't much hope left sadly, most of the people that do apologetics for recent releases of PES are as immature as the hardcore FIFA fans so we are forced into this imaginary FIFA vs PES war even you if despise both games or enjoy both. When that fails, "PES 5 isn't as good as you think", which is funny in some fucked up way seeing self titled PES loyalists shitting on the best videogame this franchise ever produced.

To me it's just amazing how people like Matt10 and TBB put the effort into doing videos commentating problems with the AI in these games and people just brush it aside as "negativity".