PES 2013 Discussion Thread

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I believe that is on priority list mate. They did remove HEAPS of rubber band AI code already, the feeling of being cheated is practically gone for me.

Yes, the perfect through balls need toning down for AI, but at least they don't score a lot of low cross/cheap goals ;).
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I understand big hate and dissapointment for pes2009/2010/2011/2012 and growing hate for demo1.
Game makers are ruining gaming.
Back at 2005-2006 we had great games we could play (splinter cell, tomb raider, prince of persia, most wanted...)
But now most of games are ruined
Splinter Cell/Silent Hill/PES/Need For Speed/World of Warctaft....
all of those were great games that you could play for 5-6hours and never stop playing for more

Now all of those games lack gaming just lack it
There is no game that you can play with fun for more than hour

Hope that gaming will rise once again
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

nesa24 said:
I understand big hate and dissapointment for pes2009/2010/2011/2012 and growing hate for demo1.
Game makers are ruining gaming.
Back at 2005-2006 we had great games we could play (splinter cell, tomb raider, prince of persia, most wanted...)
But now most of games are ruined
Splinter Cell/Silent Hill/PES/Need For Speed/World of Warctaft....
all of those were great games that you could play for 5-6hours and never stop playing for more

Now all of those games lack gaming just lack it
There is no game that you can play with fun for more than hour

Hope that gaming will rise once again
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Maybe you've grown out of it ;)
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Matty_17 said:
you defeated your own arguement
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It it obvious he just speaks for the sake of speaking. 8-12 is not black and white. I will just ignore anything he ever says along with calcio (who doesnt know crap about football).
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Redhat said:
Playing against the CPU is becoming tiring, as they're far too one dimensional. All they do is thump the ball up the middle and hope your CB fumbles about as you try to switch to him. Almost all the goals I've conceded are from a through ball I can't defend because my CBs have gone wandering, or the dodgy player switching strikes again.
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Yes it is staggering the difference in through ball effectiveness between AI and player controlled teams. Even playing a 3-5-3 with Barca at home against Malaga I struggled to get a through pass to work. The only time they do work is when the AI cannot reach the ball.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

nesa24 said:
I understand big hate and dissapointment for pes2009/2010/2011/2012 and growing hate for demo1.
Game makers are ruining gaming.
Back at 2005-2006 we had great games we could play (splinter cell, tomb raider, prince of persia, most wanted...)
But now most of games are ruined
Splinter Cell/Silent Hill/PES/Need For Speed/World of Warctaft....
all of those were great games that you could play for 5-6hours and never stop playing for more

Now all of those games lack gaming just lack it
There is no game that you can play with fun for more than hour

Hope that gaming will rise once again
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Say what about NFS? I play Shift 2 quite often. It's so much fun with steering wheel and decent online league to join! (you know, without players bumping into each other).

World Of Warcraft was never to my liking and I never intend to pay monthly fees for playing the game (and yeah, you still have to pay full price for the game and addons...). It's BS.

Splinter Cell oh the joy :D, but it was a copy of great MGS (yeah, still my fav franchise, beating Final Fantasy by some distance after MGS4).

Prince ended. Unless someone makes spin off of it, I doubt you will see continuation or something. Maybe new Lara Croft will suit us? ;)

I do however, feel that game makers become less creative and lazy as f**k. It may be due to consoles that games nowadays last for 4-6h max. Anything above that is like honey to the heart for me. I am hardocre PC gamer and I loved old RPG games (Bladurs Gate, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights and the like :P, also Diablo II). You could play those FOR MONTHS and not get bored even once, finishing main story 5 or 20 times ;).

Now, you play the game, finish it, and never go back to it. Sad truth :(.

Unless people mentality change, I can't see it going the opposite way though :(. We will be filled with medicore/average games more often with beautiful graphics (Crysis, Crysis 2 anyone?)
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

avok23 said:
It it obvious he just speaks for the sake of speaking. 8-12 is not black and white. I will just ignore anything he ever says along with calcio (who doesnt know crap about football).
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i agree zeemeister is obviously an 8 year old
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

info0 said:
I do however, feel that game makers become less creative and lazy as f**k. It may be due to consoles that games nowadays last for 4-6h max. Anything above that is like honey to the heart for me. I am hardocre PC gamer and I loved old RPG games (Bladurs Gate, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights and the like :P, also Diablo II). You could play those FOR MONTHS and not get bored even once, finishing main story 5 or 20 times ;).
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i dont buy into this at all. game length has nothing to do with quality. you can love a 4 hour game as much as you love a 40hour game.

info0 said:
Now, you play the game, finish it, and never go back to it. Sad truth :(.
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nor this. replayability isnt equal to quality either. plenty of games (and movies) which ive loved the experience of it, but felt no need to go back to.

info0 said:
Unless people mentality change, I can't see it going the opposite way though :(. We will be filled with medicore/average games more often with beautiful graphics (Crysis, Crysis 2 anyone?)
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the mentality wont change. gaming has become more popular and the people/casuals who treat it as an escape (something to take their mind off things) will always outnumber the hardcores who use it as somnething to put their mind INTO. same with music (lady gaga etc, music is so popular it is filled with these sorts - movies (transformers and whatever else, same with music) hell, any popular entertainment really.

the biggest difference with gaming is that its mroe expensive for people to make games. indepedent music and movies can easily outclass the high budget works, but in games production costs are so high your average indy maker will not get close to high budget games.... also distrubition... music and movies are everywhere.... games are on a select few consoles
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Jamezinho said:
Hopefully his stats and tendencies will mean he's not very good at doing so, but the management option should be there.
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Thats the key distinction I feel. Players should have innate traits that'll predispose them to play a certain way, but not so it completely overides all instruction. There's no end of examples of players being asked to fulfill unorthodox roles they arent used to. If you have a system in mind you should be allowed to express it, rather then being dictated by the players you have. The effectiveness, like you said, should be down to individuals, but not the overall strategy.

Also agree with the argument that high production costs lead developers to cater for 'safe' games, targeting a broad market. There are some exceptions though (see the popularity of ARMA II vs CoD, or Minecraft). I'd love for an English developer to produce a proper grassroots football simulation, with all the variables that go into real football. Even if the graphics were dated by 5 years, with basic animations, if the principles and depth is right its always bound to be enjoyable. Thats why I despair at these complaints directed at PES' aesthetics. It's such a cosmetic problem you dont notice it beyond a couple weeks of playing.
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

dannyfc2 said:
Thats the key distinction I feel. Players should have innate traits that'll predispose them to play a certain way, but not so it completely overides all instruction. There's no end of examples of players being asked to fulfill unorthodox roles they arent used to. If you have a system in mind you should be allowed to express it, rather then being dictated by the players you have. The effectiveness, like you said, should be down to individuals, but not the overall strategy.

Also agree with the argument that high production costs lead developers to cater for 'safe' games, targeting a broad market. There are some exceptions though (see the popularity of ARMA II vs CoD, or Minecraft). I'd love for an English developer to produce a proper grassroots football simulation, with all the variables that go into real football. Even if the graphics were dated by 5 years, with basic animations, if the principles and depth is right its always bound to be enjoyable. Thats why I despair at these complaints directed at PES' aesthetics. It's such a cosmetic problem you dont notice it beyond a couple weeks of playing.
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C'mon, aesthetic is always noticed on the monitor in front of us :P. I don't really agree with even if the graphic is so so.. as long as gameplay... and so on. example is PES patches/mods speaks themself why this aesthetic part is as important for some fans.. many probably. Vanilla PES 2012 blur filter and poor night match lighting will always take the joy out after 12 months but thanks to modder out there..

There are no excuses for any future football games restrict itself from being visually as real as possible in terms of graphic and animations.
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

this generation, according to Konami (2014 allegedly "Fox engine")
2008-2012 ..5 years with the same, including pes 2010 is the best in graphics.

2012 washing turf
PES2013enespaniol.jpg


2010, good lighting and effect

PES2010.jpg


other game, same generation.
dead-space-600.jpg


I do not want to create any kind of controversy, but I've always wondered.

What the hell does konami with money? 5-6 years, for a change? is to think.

modders always have to "save the game"?

because konami always used as an excuse the graphics engine?
the mistake is theirs,

- To implement this "graphics engine"
- Not knowing how to use
frame problems, lag (consoles much worse)
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

abriroyesejuiii said:
this generation, according to Konami (2014 allegedly "Fox engine")
2008-2012 ..5 years with the same, including pes 2010 is the best in graphics.

2012 washing turf
PES2013enespaniol.jpg


2010, good lighting and effect

PES2010.jpg


other game, same generation.
dead-space-600.jpg


I do not want to create any kind of controversy, but I've always wondered.

What the hell does konami with money? 5-6 years, for a change? is to think.
Click to expand...

Yeah, i wanna see some dark corridors and scary aliens in next PES! Maybe a unlockable survival mode in PES shop!
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

honome

you do not understand anything.
I'm talking about the graphic quality, lighting, effects, colors
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Comparing a game comprised of set-pieces and scripted events vs. one with 22 on-field players, each processing their own set of variable calculations.

OK.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Maybe because, KONAMI, focus during the PES 2011-2013 era was on gameplay not graphical improvements?

Seriously, dude, get a grip. You look like troll from Argentina not constructive feedback maker. ;)

Gameplay from PES 2011 to 2013 changed... Sometimes drastically. Graphics didn't get worse, they remain the same.

Btw didn't you know that PES 2010 was quite different engine? ;)

And now you brought up NBA 2k11 made by 2k Sports... Seriously now? You know NBA is 5v5 game? You know it means less AI programming? Though I do love 2k Sports for bringing INDIVIDUALITY to their games and EACH player from league is Mo-Capped.

The crowds also look immense and real life like, but... know the limits, capabilities and effort needed to make the football game.

2k Sports spoke about it long ago, why they didn't make football game till now. Search for it. Worth a read :).

Maybe then, people will understand what's so bloody hard... :/.

I am sick of moaners and whiners. Enjoy what you're given. Stop living in the past. Times changed.
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

mrg220t said:
Why are you so against options/choices? There's no reason why there should be less options tactically now than in previous versions.
By your way of reasoning, why play this game at all? Why not just disallow any human input during the match and just let the AI take control of all players. This way, Messi can do his dribbling and Iniesta/Xavi can do their one-touch passing.
The human player might be able to control Messi good enough and also might not play tiki-taka good enough.
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ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue said:
all the examples i wrote, still hes writing such shit
hilarious
makes no sense to discuss anything with this person

(as usual)
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avok23 said:
It it obvious he just speaks for the sake of speaking. 8-12 is not black and white. I will just ignore anything he ever says along with calcio (who doesnt know crap about football).
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Matty_17 said:
i agree zeemeister is obviously an 8 year old
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Sigh so much love where do I begin.

Apologies if I dont sit around typing Paragraphs of posts to get my point across I have very limited time nowadays and tend to leave one word answers without putting my point across properly. Infact this one post spanned over many fatherly duties and a wife recovering from a C section

Let me fix that though.

PES of old had the whole attack arrows and defence mindedness arrows so that you could dictate the channels your players operated in and also dictate how aggressively they defended so regardless of who you use, you could tailor make a formation to play the way you want and players respond accordingly, limited of course by their stats. I still have this on my PSP on PES2011 which still runs on PES 6 mechanics. Brilliant when you travelling.

In the old ML though you could literally take a striker and with the training give him a new position and mould him into the player you want.

The problems with this old system is that it took away from team and player individuality. In the master league you could pick any SB and make him fit your formation negating the need to purchase for a position so if you wanted to play with Fullbacks flying up the flanks like possessed spartans you could flick a switch or if you wanted him to hang back.

Secondly when you played online you could use a universal formation with just about any team because you are dictating everything

Thankfully, with the current generation Konami first opted for player cards where you could turn on and off on players attributes like Offensive full back or free roaming. They then took it a step further and removed the on/off option entirely.

Obvisouly I do not know the reasoning but speaking as someone who has played PES for a long time and still do on a daily basis in a few online leagues it seems that they opted to concentrate on player and team individuality.

Coentrao.png

Coentrao IRL is a offensive fullback he has a tendency to want to overlap and get forward alongside CR7 yes he has defensive abilites and uses them well but you cannot stop him from doing what is in his genetic code that Konami has given him, namely the "Offensive fullback" attribute and secondly his area of play (green area when selecting the player) which stretches from the goal line to the opposition goal line.

Compare that to Costa you will see he hardly ventures beyond the halfway line but this depends on your ingame strategy he can do it but will not be as successful and his attributes are not conducive to playing the outwide overlapping style
RicardoCosta.png



The other point about 8-12 is that 6 as seen below is a defensive minded play for the team. Selecting this affects the way your players respond so you can issue a command to the entire team and all the player will respond accordingly but doesnt mean that they will negate who they are.
12 is the attacking end of the spectrum as 14 takes it to the offensive play and again the players will be more mobile when you have the ball as they want to get forward to create space to pass to. So I do not understand how you can say 8-12 as they are very different levels of attack and defence.
Defensive.png
Attacking.png


Okay I could go on forever particularly on the outwide and down middle attack options but this post is taking faaaar too long.

So all in all I like the new system the old system IMO had too many flaws and stole from player individuality which for me is the cornerstone of the series. Its not perfect - these things never are but the series IMO has evolved well. You are now forced to adjust your style with different teams and also forced into buying better for ML

back to being an 8 year old again :)
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

zeemeister said:
In the old ML though you could literally take a striker and with the training give him a new position and mould him into the player you want.
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so... like in real life then. believe it or not, a player played out of position doesnt turn into some ametuer, he still is the same player. want to make that more realistic? add a verastility stat for how well he can play different positions, add an adaptability stat for how good they are at learning a new positions.

zeemeister said:
The problems with this old system is that it took away from team and player individuality. In the master league you could pick any SB and make him fit your formation negating the need to purchase for a position so if you wanted to play with Fullbacks flying up the flanks like possessed spartans you could flick a switch or if you wanted him to hang back.
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no, it doesnt. players still have stats. if you tell a crap player to bomb forward he will be bad at it and therefore will not fit into your system.


zeemeister said:
Coentrao IRL is a offensive fullback he has a tendency to want to overlap and get forward alongside CR7 yes he has defensive abilites and uses them well but you cannot stop him from doing what is in his genetic code that Konami has given him, namely the "Offensive fullback" attribute and secondly his area of play (green area when selecting the player) which stretches from the goal line to the opposition goal line.
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he does that because thats what his strength is... attacking. imagine jose telling contrao and the boys 'we are facing barcelona tonight guys... we are going all out defensive mode... so no one except ronaldo and benezma can attack'

contrao: 'boss... i cannot do.. attacking is in my genetic code'

he would be slapped right back to benfica

zeemeister said:
Compare that to Costa you will see he hardly ventures beyond the halfway line but this depends on your ingame strategy he can do it but will not be as successful and his attributes are not conducive to playing the outwide overlapping style
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wait.... isnt this MY argument? his stats say he cannot do something well so usually a good manager wont tell him to do that.... youve just agreed with me ??? :WORSHIP:



zeemeister said:
So all in all I like the new system the old system IMO had too many flaws and stole from player individuality which for me is the cornerstone of the series. Its not perfect - these things never are but the series IMO has evolved well. You are now forced to adjust your style with different teams and also forced into buying better for ML
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youre talking like its either or. 'what we have now or pes6'... its not.... changes can be made you know... new ideas? not just A or B...
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I feel anything below 2 bar still needs some fine tuning. Also, it's not so much of a problem and huge advancement in animation from what we have at the moment isn't going to materialise but one area I would like to see some more variety, fluidity and overall consistency is in deft-touch dribbling. A little more responsiveness when entering and exiting deft-touch would be welcome as well as it still can feel a little ''sticky'' at times, and it isn't always player/stats/condition dependent as to why this can be the case.

Otherwise, very happy. I have played all versions (including patched PC version) and they all play a solid game; staying away from PC version as much as possible as I don't want too much game at the moment, if that makes sense.

Finally, thorough tweaking of COM AI regards their build up wouldn't go amiss as it is arguably a little too easy to dominate possession.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Agredd curdstar the pass assist is too forgiving on 1 bar and a little too hard on 0 bar.

Also of the teams in the demo they hardly hold ball in the midfield rather opting to play it up in record time. You don't see much middle of the park buildup.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

zeemeister said:
Also of the teams in the demo they hardly hold ball in the midfield rather opting to play it up in record time. You don't see much middle of the park buildup.
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maybe because its a 5 min demo? people would get pissed if they started a match and didnt touch the ball lol
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Matty_17 said:
maybe because its a 5 min demo? people would get pissed if they started a match and didnt touch the ball lol
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I think (hope) it is exactly that - the demo is scaled for 5min matches.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

info0
not want to get into arguments, if you're a conformist is fine.
is true that the gameplay has improved but slightly.
My complaint is about the graphic work, which is zero, and need not be a programmer to notice.

most of the time, we are "editing" the game, stadiums, graphics, and everything else, because konami effort every year to offer a better product, is nothing
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Matty_17 said:
zeemeister said:
Also of the teams in the demo they hardly hold ball in the midfield rather opting to play it up in record time. You don't see much middle of the park buildup.
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maybe because its a 5 min demo? people would get pissed if they started a match and didnt touch the ball lol
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I play 15 minute mates with demo expander and PES still has no midfield sin its origin. Only pes 2008 had well position midfielders
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

zeemeister said:
In the old ML though you could literally take a striker and with the training give him a new position and mould him into the player you want.

The problems with this old system is that it took away from team and player individuality. In the master league you could pick any SB and make him fit your formation negating the need to purchase for a position so if you wanted to play with Fullbacks flying up the flanks like possessed spartans you could flick a switch or if you wanted him to hang back.
Click to expand...

If i trained a striker to play as a sb i would teach him how to switch his attack mentality too lol.

I hated the fact everyone used 4-3-3 but that was because konami negated the transition of the ball through midfield. cpu did not force you to make mistakes ever. The problem was with the game not the game-players.

To be honest Konami does not have an attribute that describes proper positional play. all they have ar values that say how attacking and how defensively positioned a player would be basically trying to map where he will be for every single match regardless of team and tactic.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

avok23 said:
I play 15 minute mates with demo expander and PES still has no midfield sin its origin. Only pes 2008 had well position midfielders
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Yeah.. especially againts team like Barca, Madrid.. or whoever has high rated attacker.. 15 mins does not really alter the way they play. They still try to go through my player sometimes, not thinking to pass back.. etc
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

avok23 said:
To be honest Konami does not have an attribute that describes proper positional play. all they have ar values that say how attacking and how defensively positioned a player would be basically trying to map where he will be for every single match regardless of team and tactic.
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What?! LOL I now am not sure if you play PES. That comment is far off the mark.

Also matty what exactly are you on about? The whole point I was making was that you can alter formation and strategies to make players play a certain way but you can't change coentrao to an out and out defensive player. .

Are we debating to make a point or are we debating for the sake of debating #confused.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I've never played a PC game, but I decided to get the demo for my computer for the time extender and extra teams via patches etc.

Does anyone know how I can make a PS3 Controller work on my PC if I have Windows 7 64 bit?
 
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