PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Still in my first game and can't notice much. Side-stepping feels better now I guess. It used to lock on to the animation but now it doesn't feel that way and can change directions. Also, maybe catch-up has been toned down. Yet again I'm yet to finish my 1st game.
 
Lami said:
Still in my first game and can't notice much. Side-stepping feels better now I guess. It used to lock on to the animation but now it doesn't feel that way and can change directions. Also, maybe catch-up has been toned down. Yet again I'm yet to finish my 1st game.
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Take your time, play for an hour or two and then tell us the good and bad.
 
zlac said:
So what exactly happened to Copa? Do we still have both old and new tournaments available?
Click to expand...

yes, we have both now
to me shooting is the same, pace is a bit slower, goalkeepers are better
cpu teams seem to be less accurate while shooting
park the bus is still there
 
Okay guys, this is just a few games but there are noticeable difference for me already.

Liverpool I play as, and have played exhibition only, will start a new ML tonight. Normal crack, -2 gamespeed, Superstar, 15 mins.

Now this may be bullshit/placebo/whatever, it's only what I feel -

1) Ball weight. Seems to be more realistic. Hit more low drives than before, and balls which players are running onto, stay hit along the ground. Also seems to have more velocity behind shots across the board.

2) Goalies. My keeper has saved some headers and some shots that normally, more often than not, loop in. You know that rubbish header from the CPU with hardly any power on that just goes in cos the keeper dives out of way, well this seems to have been eradicated with the keeper catching it and falling on the line, clutching the ball.

3) First touch and control. This is very welcome. Players like Spearing for example, who I'm guessing have a lower first touch/control stat than the rest, does have more pronounced trouble getting the ball under control. A few times the ball has ricocheted away when I haven' taken my time to get the ball under control properly.

4) CPU scripting/CPU coming forward - seems to be less CPU blatant cheating, the CPU still comes forward, but the players seem to have lost that cheaty zip that they just glide past you (to a man) and instead th CPU seems to have a more realistic turn of speed. Also there seems to be more acceleration rather than just going from start to top speed which ties me into -

5) Players heavier? Do the players seem like they have more weight? More natural turning etc. The whole process of getting the ball under control, and turning seems more weightier, more realistic. Players with high response obviously turn quicker, but 'normal' players seem to be weighted perfectly now. Acceleration and speed is also more natural now I feel.

6) Defensive line seems to be adhered to now. More pressure up the pitch, the defensive line SEEMS, to do what it is told. Leading on from this, my strikers who have the opportunity to break forward should I be countering seem more happy to break the line and surge forward. Kuyt for example, who spends his entire life stopping my counter moves coming back for the ball ALL the time, seemed more happy to run in behind defenders.

Early signs people. The test now is a ML campaign, after say twenty games lol!
 
ccshopland said:
Okay guys, this is just a few games but there are noticeable difference for me already.

Liverpool I play as, and have played exhibition only, will start a new ML tonight. Normal crack, -2 gamespeed, Superstar, 15 mins.

Now this may be bullshit/placebo/whatever, it's only what I feel -

1) Ball weight. Seems to be more realistic. Hit more low drives than before, and balls which players are running onto, stay hit along the ground. Also seems to have more velocity behind shots across the board.

2) Goalies. My keeper has saved some headers and some shots that normally, more often than not, loop in. You know that rubbish header from the CPU with hardly any power on that just goes in cos the keeper dives out of way, well this seems to have been eradicated with the keeper catching it and falling on the line, clutching the ball.

3) First touch and control. This is very welcome. Players like Spearing for example, who I'm guessing have a lower first touch/control stat than the rest, does have more pronounced trouble getting the ball under control. A few times the ball has ricocheted away when I haven' taken my time to get the ball under control properly.

4) CPU scripting/CPU coming forward - seems to be less CPU blatant cheating, the CPU still comes forward, but the players seem to have lost that cheaty zip that they just glide past you (to a man) and instead th CPU seems to have a more realistic turn of speed. Also there seems to be more acceleration rather than just going from start to top speed which ties me into -

5) Players heavier? Do the players seem like they have more weight? More natural turning etc. The whole process of getting the ball under control, and turning seems more weightier, more realistic. Players with high response obviously turn quicker, but 'normal' players seem to be weighted perfectly now. Acceleration and speed is also more natural now I feel.

6) Defensive line seems to be adhered to now. More pressure up the pitch, the defensive line SEEMS, to do what it is told. Leading on from this, my strikers who have the opportunity to break forward should I be countering seem more happy to break the line and surge forward. Kuyt for example, who spends his entire life stopping my counter moves coming back for the ball ALL the time, seemed more happy to run in behind defenders.

Early signs people. The test now is a ML campaign, after say twenty games lol!
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Sounds awesome, hopefully these improvements translate also into the single-player-modi, after all playing only friendlies is not interesting enough.
 
ccshopland said:
Okay guys, this is just a few games but there are noticeable difference for me already.

Liverpool I play as, and have played exhibition only, will start a new ML tonight. Normal crack, -2 gamespeed, Superstar, 15 mins.

Now this may be bullshit/placebo/whatever, it's only what I feel -

1) Ball weight. Seems to be more realistic. Hit more low drives than before, and balls which players are running onto, stay hit along the ground. Also seems to have more velocity behind shots across the board.

2) Goalies. My keeper has saved some headers and some shots that normally, more often than not, loop in. You know that rubbish header from the CPU with hardly any power on that just goes in cos the keeper dives out of way, well this seems to have been eradicated with the keeper catching it and falling on the line, clutching the ball.

3) First touch and control. This is very welcome. Players like Spearing for example, who I'm guessing have a lower first touch/control stat than the rest, does have more pronounced trouble getting the ball under control. A few times the ball has ricocheted away when I haven' taken my time to get the ball under control properly.

4) CPU scripting/CPU coming forward - seems to be less CPU blatant cheating, the CPU still comes forward, but the players seem to have lost that cheaty zip that they just glide past you (to a man) and instead th CPU seems to have a more realistic turn of speed. Also there seems to be more acceleration rather than just going from start to top speed which ties me into -

5) Players heavier? Do the players seem like they have more weight? More natural turning etc. The whole process of getting the ball under control, and turning seems more weightier, more realistic. Players with high response obviously turn quicker, but 'normal' players seem to be weighted perfectly now. Acceleration and speed is also more natural now I feel.

6) Defensive line seems to be adhered to now. More pressure up the pitch, the defensive line SEEMS, to do what it is told. Leading on from this, my strikers who have the opportunity to break forward should I be countering seem more happy to break the line and surge forward. Kuyt for example, who spends his entire life stopping my counter moves coming back for the ball ALL the time, seemed more happy to run in behind defenders.

Early signs people. The test now is a ML campaign, after say twenty games lol!
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I know that you're a longer-term player of PES2012 than most, so I attach more weight even to your initial findings. But we've all played PES long enough to know that the game can show changeable factors from one play-session to the next. That's one of the series' big attractions. So you could just be seeing natural variance.

I struggle to believe that 1.06 could really introduce such wholesale changes without Konami making more of an announcement about it. Especially things like ball/player weight and first touch variables. That stuff is fundamental, the kind of changes that they only usually make from one edition of the game to the next.

I really want to see some official Konami patch notes. Patch notes. We need patch notes. Otherwise, it's all hearsay and subjective perception.
 
This is taken from official PC readme file

Patch Notes
Time of Release: 27/4/2012
Patch 1.06 Details
* Changes to the game in order to accomodate the new "Copa Santander Libertadores 2012" mode.
* Fixes to text chat. Now customers can use text chat during Master League Online competitions too.
* General improvement to the gaming experience in various modes.


Informative as usual :/
 
zlac said:
This is taken from official PC readme file

Patch Notes
Time of Release: 27/4/2012
Patch 1.06 Details
* Changes to the game in order to accomodate the new "Copa Santander Libertadores 2012" mode.
* Fixes to text chat. Now customers can use text chat during Master League Online competitions too.
* General improvement to the gaming experience in various modes.


Informative as usual :/
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The key phrase in the bolded part is 'the gaming experience'. It could mean literally anything, and not necessarily anything at all to do with gameplay. 'The gaming experience', especially on PS3, is often spoiled a bit by sluggish menus. So it could just be a fix for that, for example, or something of a similar nature. I bet there are people at Konami who laugh their heads off at the PES forums every time they publish a patch.

EDIT: and the clincher, for me, that indicates this is NOT a gameplay patch, is the final phrase 'in various modes' – why come out with that curious phrase, if they've made tweaks to the core gameplay engine across the board?

The only reason to say 'in various modes' would be if the changes made only affect a few of the modes. Which further indicates, logically, that the changes CANNOT be to the core gameplay engine.

Just my thoughts. I haven't played 1.06 myself yet, but I'm an extremely cynical veteran of these post-patch placebo fests on next-gen.
 
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Is it me or has the game become much more balanced now? CPU feels more human. I'm currently playing Real v Barca on -1, Pro. Also, I feel that players are much more aware of the ball now.

These are my findings currently and hope they ain't placebo.
 
Just to answer Keith, I've been playing the game since it got out. I know all of it's problems and keep playing it even if annoys the hell of me after some time. So I would know what to look for.

Something deffo changed in-game, I tested 1.03 and side-stepping always locks, it deffo isn't locking on 1.06. That should confirm that they changed things in-game, the question is what and how much.

Two things remained from last night for me: Keepers and stats increased impact (and therefore, the general game, attack and defense balance). After several more matches, I saw some teams still parking the bus but they now put a lot more pressure on you and you eventually find space to break through. That hardly ever happened in 1.03.
 
Keith Houchen said:
The key phrase in the bolded part is 'the gaming experience'. It could mean literally anything, and not necessarily anything at all to do with gameplay. 'The gaming experience', especially on PS3, is often spoiled a bit by sluggish menus. So it could just be a fix for that, for example, or something of a similar nature. I bet there are people at Konami who laugh their heads off at the PES forums every time they publish a patch.

EDIT: and the clincher, for me, that indicates this is NOT a gameplay patch, is the final phrase 'in various modes' – why come out with that curious phrase, if they've made tweaks to the core gameplay engine across the board?

The only reason to say 'in various modes' would be if the changes made only affect a few of the modes. Which further indicates, logically, that the changes CANNOT be to the core gameplay engine.

Just my thoughts. I haven't played 1.06 myself yet, but I'm an extremely cynical veteran of these post-patch placebo fests on next-gen.
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I'm with you to an extent on this, but, the difference between 1.00 and 1.03 was huge in my opinion. So, there is evidence to suggest Patch Updates on PES 2012 certainly can have a quite a large impact on gameplay.

I'll probably get chance to try this myself tonight, but I'll leave it for at least 4-5 games before I post my thoughts.

There was also a lock-up with the animations on a couple of the other tricks, I'll test them also.
 
Any comments on three issues:

1)empty midfield

2) Which positions on the CPU team has the most passes after the game (a stat to determine buildup and variation?)

3) possession rates
 
I've always played at zero game speed from the demos to the full game and online. I'd prefer it to be a touch slower, but as it was the default speed, I was generally ok with it. For me with this new patch the game now feels too fast and loose again like it was in the demos.

I was reasonably happy with 1.03, but the game was already fluid enough, the 'responsiveness' in terms of general speed of the game, player movement, dribble accuracy, dribble speed, lightweight nature of the players and the intricacies of the actual 'responsiveness' stat, these all needed to be toned down not increased again for even more fluidity. Bizarre.

I could manage 0 game speed online with 1.03 because the defensive controls at least allowed for some balance, but now with even more responsiveness added 'to make the game more fluid' I might have to primarily become an offline player and only dip into online now and again, rather than regularly as I do now, because at least you can dial it back to -1 or -2.

The strange thing is I played one laggy game, which was a bit stop start in nature, and obviously less responsive, and I actually enjoyed that game more than the recent batch of smooth ones! A laggy game was more fun, crazy! With less speed and responsiveness its more balanced and much more fun.

As I mentioned, it might be better for those playing on -1 or -2, but on zero speed it is worse for me personally.
 
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Just to answer a few questions, I am seeing a lot more going on. This is in Master League.

Firstly the CPU does seem to play more human like, in terms of losing possession, and general bits and pieces. For example, I had a penalty which saw the CPU 'dive' in and I shimmied out of the way just in time shielding the ball, CPU took my player out, blatant penalty and a yellow card. I was then winning 2-0 to Norwich and broke the line on the wing and the CPU player once I had reached around 10 yards from the by-line just completely took me out just after my cross, two footed challenge, red card! Brilliant stuff.

Many may still feel that it's still parking the bus, personally I'm seeing a lot more midfield activity going on, and more pressure in midfield. I think this is due to KONAMI shifting the 'action areas' if you like. Before the game was primarily played ON both sets of 18 yard boxes, now the activity seems to hinge around 25/30 yards out in terms of defensive line and pressure. This is great news.

I have already had a few great breakaways goals that just wouldn't have been possible on the last patch, and the CPU have also hit me twice on the counter.

Possession stats are fairly the same for me, in that I normally enjoy 55-60% possession. HOWEVER, I believe this is a little disingenuous because the CPU's possession now actually takes into consideration more passing time, rather than dribble time. I played Norwich for example in ML, and I could hold my ground defensively from around 25/30 yards out, and the passed it backwards and sideways.

I also think crossing is less laser guided, there's more scuffles in terms of crossing and jumping for the ball (for example Carroll could win headers all day, now it's a genuine aerial scramble, with the ball not clearly being won all the time either way, just dropping after confrontation), keepers seem to be responsive to that cheaty CPU wing ball that is un-defendable.

This is early days guys, but I am actually very very excited. The game feels much, much more balanced. The seems more midfield confrontation, loose balls, bit more randomness, less AI dribble cheat scripts. Pressure seems right in just about all areas, I haven't noticed any goaly cock-ups, aerial confrontation is great, Carroll isn't winning everything, corners and clearances aren't clean all the time, more weight on players and a touch harder to get the ball under control. Shots more zippier, less balloon physics.

This is touch wood guys, as we all know what this strange game is like....but....I have to say, early doors, this is looking very promising. Will report some more.
 
shorty alien said:
I've always played at zero game speed from the demos to the full game and online. I'd prefer it to be a touch slower, but as it was the default speed, I was generally ok with it. For me with this new patch the game now feels too fast and loose again like it was in the demos.

I was reasonably happy with 1.03, but the game was already fluid enough, the 'responsiveness' in terms of general speed of the game, player movement, dribble accuracy, dribble speed, lightweight nature of the players and the intricacies of the actual 'responsiveness' stat, these all needed to be toned down not increased again for even more fluidity. Bizarre.

I could manage 0 game speed online with 1.03 because the defensive controls at least allowed for some balance, but now with even more responsiveness added 'to make the game more fluid' I might have to primarily become an offline player and only dip into online now and again, rather than regularly as I do now, because at least you can dial it back to -1 or -2.

The strange thing is I played one laggy game, which was a bit stop start in nature, and obviously less responsive, and I actually enjoyed that game more than the recent batch of smooth ones! A laggy game was more fun, crazy! With less speed and responsiveness its more balanced and much more fun.

As I mentioned, it might be better for those playing on -1 or -2, but on zero speed it is worse for me personally.
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With version 1.00 the best speed is imho -2, with version 1.03 the best speed is imho -1. I look forward to find out what the most realistic speed is with version 1.06.

It's really a bummer for those playing online, having to endure with speed 0. There should be a solution to make games possible online with gamespeed -1 and -2 as well for the next version.
 
ccshopland said:
Just to answer a few questions, I am seeing a lot more going on. This is in Master League.

Firstly the CPU does seem to play more human like, in terms of losing possession, and general bits and pieces. For example, I had a penalty which saw the CPU 'dive' in and I shimmied out of the way just in time shielding the ball, CPU took my player out, blatant penalty and a yellow card. I was then winning 2-0 to Norwich and broke the line on the wing and the CPU player once I had reached around 10 yards from the by-line just completely took me out just after my cross, two footed challenge, red card! Brilliant stuff.

Many may still feel that it's still parking the bus, personally I'm seeing a lot more midfield activity going on, and more pressure in midfield. I think this is due to KONAMI shifting the 'action areas' if you like. Before the game was primarily played ON both sets of 18 yard boxes, now the activity seems to hinge around 25/30 yards out in terms of defensive line and pressure. This is great news.

I have already had a few great breakaways goals that just wouldn't have been possible on the last patch, and the CPU have also hit me twice on the counter.

Possession stats are fairly the same for me, in that I normally enjoy 55-60% possession. HOWEVER, I believe this is a little disingenuous because the CPU's possession now actually takes into consideration more passing time, rather than dribble time. I played Norwich for example in ML, and I could hold my ground defensively from around 25/30 yards out, and the passed it backwards and sideways.

I also think crossing is less laser guided, there's more scuffles in terms of crossing and jumping for the ball (for example Carroll could win headers all day, now it's a genuine aerial scramble, with the ball not clearly being won all the time either way, just dropping after confrontation), keepers seem to be responsive to that cheaty CPU wing ball that is un-defendable.

This is early days guys, but I am actually very very excited. The game feels much, much more balanced. The seems more midfield confrontation, loose balls, bit more randomness, less AI dribble cheat scripts. Pressure seems right in just about all areas, I haven't noticed any goaly cock-ups, aerial confrontation is great, Carroll isn't winning everything, corners and clearances aren't clean all the time, more weight on players and a touch harder to get the ball under control. Shots more zippier, less balloon physics.

This is touch wood guys, as we all know what this strange game is like....but....I have to say, early doors, this is looking very promising. Will report some more.
Click to expand...

So far I'm experiencing exactly the same things you are.
 
ccshopland said:
Just to answer a few questions, I am seeing a lot more going on. This is in Master League.

Firstly the CPU does seem to play more human like, in terms of losing possession, and general bits and pieces. For example, I had a penalty which saw the CPU 'dive' in and I shimmied out of the way just in time shielding the ball, CPU took my player out, blatant penalty and a yellow card. I was then winning 2-0 to Norwich and broke the line on the wing and the CPU player once I had reached around 10 yards from the by-line just completely took me out just after my cross, two footed challenge, red card! Brilliant stuff.

Many may still feel that it's still parking the bus, personally I'm seeing a lot more midfield activity going on, and more pressure in midfield. I think this is due to KONAMI shifting the 'action areas' if you like. Before the game was primarily played ON both sets of 18 yard boxes, now the activity seems to hinge around 25/30 yards out in terms of defensive line and pressure. This is great news.

I have already had a few great breakaways goals that just wouldn't have been possible on the last patch, and the CPU have also hit me twice on the counter.

Possession stats are fairly the same for me, in that I normally enjoy 55-60% possession. HOWEVER, I believe this is a little disingenuous because the CPU's possession now actually takes into consideration more passing time, rather than dribble time. I played Norwich for example in ML, and I could hold my ground defensively from around 25/30 yards out, and the passed it backwards and sideways.

I also think crossing is less laser guided, there's more scuffles in terms of crossing and jumping for the ball (for example Carroll could win headers all day, now it's a genuine aerial scramble, with the ball not clearly being won all the time either way, just dropping after confrontation), keepers seem to be responsive to that cheaty CPU wing ball that is un-defendable.

This is early days guys, but I am actually very very excited. The game feels much, much more balanced. The seems more midfield confrontation, loose balls, bit more randomness, less AI dribble cheat scripts. Pressure seems right in just about all areas, I haven't noticed any goaly cock-ups, aerial confrontation is great, Carroll isn't winning everything, corners and clearances aren't clean all the time, more weight on players and a touch harder to get the ball under control. Shots more zippier, less balloon physics.

This is touch wood guys, as we all know what this strange game is like....but....I have to say, early doors, this is looking very promising. Will report some more.
Click to expand...

Great, I really don't like version 1.03 and prefer 1.00 eventhough the goalkeeper is even worse in 1.00, but 1.03 lacked dynamic and randomness due to too perfect ballcontrol (similar to Fifa's), if that looser and more realistic ball-control is back again with 1.06 plus other improvements, that is indeed great news.
 
Played 3 games.

I normally play on -1 as -2 is way to slow but Im finding that game speed 0 is the best for me.

Shooting - still a fucking lottery.

Keepers - seem a lot better but still love to dash of their line and end up 30 yards from goal for no reason!

The game is getting there but there are still some of the little annoyances like players bashing into each other and cursor issues.

pes12 is now nearly there. I cant see there being anymore patches as PES13 is now only 5 months away
 
From your Match Detail:

2) Which positions on the CPU team has the most passes after the game (a stat to determine buildup and variation?)
 
OH NO!!! LOL!!

I have to report the good with the bad. A 90th minute goal from Wolves to make it 2-2. It was one of those that the striker and defender get locked on, he continues coming forward, shoots, deflection and the slow trickle into the net!!! Bad bad lol.

BUT - don't get disheartened. This is the first, even glimpse, or dodgy keeping/CPU scripting in around 7 games, ON SUPERSTAR!!

Possession stats 53-47, Wolves played some lovely, organic normal build up back and forth.

I am really excited about this patch though peeps. The game is now as open as it can be I reckon in terms of balancing everything.

I dig KONAMI in the ribs as much as anyone, but I have to say, if the game continues like my last seven games, then they deserve a MASSIVE, MASSIVE pat on the back! Awesome stuff, and have genuinely got that one more game feeling back.

PS - the CPU hit a stunning drive which hit the post, one of those which the keeper doesn't see it and is just grounded. Looked stunning. And another PS, I had the CPU head the ball from a cross, my goalie save in the air, parried by the line, then get back up and double save the rebound from the striker with the collision looking perfect (keeper on floor clutching ball, whilst CPU striker bumps into him and takes contact, then tumbles. He also grabbed the net to get himself back up, lol, great touches). Great stuff.
 
ccshopland said:
PS - the CPU hit a stunning drive which hit the post, one of those which the keeper doesn't see it and is just grounded. Looked stunning. And another PS, I had the CPU head the ball from a cross, my goalie save in the air, parried by the line, then get back up and double save the rebound from the striker with the collision looking perfect (keeper on floor clutching ball, whilst CPU striker bumps into him and takes contact, then tumbles. He also grabbed the net to get himself back up, lol, great touches). Great stuff.
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Good, the keeper in my 1.00 nor in 1.03 wouldn't be able to do that, so they really improved the goalkeeper.
 
Lami said:
Don't think it's that bad. Somehow I feel it's improved. My shots are going wider than usual though, which I don't mind at all.
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Shooting isnt a lottery at all, its just very contextual.
I actually Love PES12's shooting, with a few tweaks for PES13 here and there it would be just fine.

I once thought shooting was awful, then I started to get better players and 'learn' the shooting contextes and methods and very rarely (id say less than 1 in every 25 shots) will a hot go anywhere other than where i aim it.
 
xPJRx said:
Shooting isnt a lottery at all, its just very contextual.
I actually Love PES12's shooting, with a few tweaks for PES13 here and there it would be just fine.

I once thought shooting was awful, then I started to get better players and 'learn' the shooting contextes and methods and very rarely (id say less than 1 in every 25 shots) will a hot go anywhere other than where i aim it.
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The problem is I guess that with 1.03 shots became less free and directed more to the center in order to make it easier for the goalkeeper.

The other problem is that aiming right is done with up and aiming left with down, that is very unintuitive.
 
henrys hand said:
The problem is I guess that with 1.03 shots became less free and directed more to the center in order to make it easier for the goalkeeper.

The other problem is that aiming right is done with up and aiming left with down, that is very unintuitive.
Click to expand...

Henry's - I play on 1.03 and can honestly say I find the shooting just fine. in very rare circumstances The odd shot may go straight at the keeper in close range attempts but 9/10 times i can paint the corners of the net at will.

PES12 is just so contextual in that the ball, standing foot, shooting foot, body position, angle etc etc all have to be in favour to execute a real good shot, im sure youve heard it all before so wont bore you.
And I used to be one of the ones that said shooting was broken, it isnt, just needs understanding.
 
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