PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

xPJRx said:
Henry's - I play on 1.03 and can honestly say I find the shooting just fine. in very rare circumstances The odd shot may go straight at the keeper in close range attempts but 9/10 times i can paint the corners of the net at will.

PES12 is just so contextual in that the ball, standing foot, shooting foot, body position, angle etc etc all have to be in favour to execute a real good shot, im sure youve heard it all before so wont bore you.
And I used to be one of the ones that said shooting was broken, it isnt, just needs understanding.
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Ok, but shooting should be modeled in such a way that it should be as intuitive as possible and regarding direction up for right and down for left is counterintuitive. Up and down should be for choosing between a low or a high shot.
 
henrys hand said:
Ok, but shooting should be modeled in such a way that it should be as intuitive as possible and regarding direction up for right and down for left is counterintuitive. Up and down should be for choosing between a low or a high shot.
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Totally agree. Id love to see a shot modofoer button in PES13 whereby the power determines height and LS for direction, but say holding L2 and shooting enables a low shot, so you can hit driven low shots from distance etc.
 
xPJRx said:
Totally agree. Id love to see a shot modofoer button in PES13 whereby the power determines height and LS for direction, but say holding L2 and shooting enables a low shot, so you can hit driven low shots from distance etc.
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Apparantely Konami is interested in improving the game-mechanics for PES 2013, for example the use of super-cancel to leave the rails won't be necessary anymore, maybe they will also make shooting more intuitive without reducing the possibilities.
 
After playing loads more games I think I'll stick to zero speed. Just like the demos -1 and -2 feel a bit too artificially sluggish for me personally, although i like the increased weight of the players on those speeds, more akin to PES 2011. Not that I love zero, it should be toned down a bit too, like it was seemingly with 1.03. Still unsure about the new patch, it seems to unnecessarily make the game at least on zero speed even more responsive and subsequently quicker in general when it didn't need to be.
 
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I have one Problem, I use the PES Edit Match, and after installing the new Patch 1.06, my ML Crash, Friendly Matches crashes, why is this?
 
xPJRx said:
Totally agree. Id love to see a shot modofoer button in PES13 whereby the power determines height and LS for direction, but say holding L2 and shooting enables a low shot, so you can hit driven low shots from distance etc.
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No, no, no no.

And the reason is that you would be actually moving away from technical contextuality. I can drill a shot hard and low, 10 times out of 10. I just need to set it up correctly. Having a modifier is taking away that technical reproduction that I so dearly love. So thanks, but definitely, no thanks.
 
Does this patch fix the issue with the AI controlled defenders letting attackers take free headers on crosses (mostly early crosses)? You know when the defenders don't fall back together with the attackers.


This is the bug that makes me not start playing the game again since I only play against AI (BAL).
 
More impressions
The CPU is definitely easier to beat. I passed the Copa Libertadores 2012 Group Stage as first team without suffering with a mediocre team.
There is a lot less cpu cheating, that is the most noticeable thing.

The dribble speed with the ball has been toned down a bit, but it's noticeable for me
Goalkeepers are better but they still don't reach some weak shots and it seems like they dive on the spot (maybe it's because i was playing with a 70 overall gk)
shots are slightly more powerful, but their direction is still random
Is it just me or the referee whistles less than before the patch?
 
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Ameppe said:
The CPU is definitely easier to beat. I passed the Copa Libertadores 2012 Group Stage as first team without suffering with a mediocre team.
There is a lot less cpu cheating, that is the most noticeable thing.
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But does it mean the game becomes boring now?
 
henrys hand said:
But does it mean the game becomes boring now?
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Don't know. It's different I'll give it that. I think the cheating and super dribbling has been toned down loads. But, the CPU does seem even more clinical when it does get a chance, especially one on one.

Although I was enjoying the game before, there did seem rigged patterns (especially with the streaks both losing and winning). It seems this has been toned down a lot, and the game is very much on the day, more balanced. It's hard to explain, whereas before you could win 2 or 3 games, kind of getting the feeling that you deserved it but never quite sure if the scripts were going for you, and then BHAM, Bolton would be like Barcelona and destroy you 4-0 or something with some strange shit happening; now it's more a neutral feeling of generally light scripts may be.

This now reminds me of some of Yair's work on the PC, with modding the exe, but better actually.

Certainly the feeling of the CPU lying deep all the time is gone. For this alone, the game is better for it. It's now a kind of cross between PES/FIFA in terms of player positioning, pressure etc; which is a good thing. I always felt like FIFA was too regimented and grid like, whilst PES was too easy to get over the halfway line without any real pressure, but parked the bus more often than not.

It's a really nice mix right now.

As a naturally born pessimist though, I'm waiting for the bubble to burst lol!
 
Gab_ said:
Does this patch fix the issue with the AI controlled defenders letting attackers take free headers on crosses (mostly early crosses)? You know when the defenders don't fall back together with the attackers.


This is the bug that makes me not start playing the game again since I only play against AI (BAL).
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As of yet, haven't noticed one occassion. The only time the CPU scored a header against me was purely contextual when they broke the right back area and crossed with Dzeko already getting ahead of Agger because he was faster. Totally cool with this.

There are times now it seems, when the CPU crosses, my defender is slightly behind, but the defender busts a gut to jostle and jump and just generally put off the striker in the air. There seems more jostling aerially now. Which is great both for you and the CPU. One of the main bad points was the laser guided crosses for the attakcer who has like 80 stats to win the header all the time; this was an issue. Carroll has only scored one header in around 6 games now, which is life-like IMO. So there does seem to be a defender boost in intelligence.
 
Man, last night I played demo 2, american version, -2 speed and no bar for pass assistance, Copa Libertadores (INternaciona vs América) and i tell you: what a great game (despite of being poor technically, specially animations)!

The first matchs I really struggle to find space in the middle because of CPU pressure (a bit annoying at first), my atacking plays lacked variety because of this, then I chose to go down the wings most of the times. Passing felt a bit like in slow motion, but then, after two or three games everything changed, I got more used to the passing speed and ball physics got better, I managed to create variety of attacking plays and then I said to myself: OMG, what a game, so promising!

One of the only critical aspect is the poor ball possession of CPU, but almost everything else was really good. There are those locked runs onto the ball on the demo, but they are BRILIANTLY implemented in the demo, most of the time I had controll over my players and when i didm't have full controll over them after a pass, those locked moves onto the ball made perfect sense. Wonderful freedom to pass the ball around and build up the attack the way you want, space was tight at times but the AI was WAY MORE FAIR defensively than in the full game.

What a game... all I wanted is the demo 2 back with improved keepers and improved Attacking CPU AI to make ball possession an important aspect of the game,but Konami failed to sell the same product AGAIN (it happend with the 2011 version as well).

There are some minor issues here and there that could be fixed, but i guess it has to do wih some of the engine limitations, things that i expect to be improved only in Pes 2013, not in a patch (I hope so).

You know... the lack of better CPU AI to hold ball possession can be a big flaw, but everything else together makes the Demo 2 so much ahead of what i experienced on the Full version and even when compared to Fifa 12, wich definetly lacks the variety and unpredictability that PEs offers, specially for simulating nicely a variety of dificult circunstances that players (according to their abilities,of course) struggle to trap the ball, keep the ball in controll, keep the balance to shoot or pass in under pressure condictions or situations where they have no space and time to shoot with the preffered foot, or when they have, they choose the preffered foot and becaue of that the shooting is different then you expected, etc and etc...

If 1.04 patch plays much like it does in demo 2, i can buy PES 2012 even today! I so miss the Demo's gameplay quality...

On the other hand, that shows how Football games are poor this gen. Konami seems to be lost and can't keep the good elements of the game untouched, not to count their weakness about offering a good game in it's technical aspect, and Fifa is a TOP game that on the FIELD (wich is the most important part for me) is FAR from simulating the CORE aspects of a football game that Konami knows to do it so nicely considering their cash and engine limitations.
 
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Ameppe said:
More impressions
The CPU is definitely easier to beat. I passed the Copa Libertadores 2012 Group Stage as first team without suffering with a mediocre team.
There is a lot less cpu cheating, that is the most noticeable thing.
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If being "easier" you mean being more Fair, then this is actually a great news.

Depending on how good this patch plays, i may buy PES 2012 for the second time. I gave my copy to my brother who bought a PS3 lately as a gift, so I won't ask to give me the game back of course.:P
 
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DuduBR9 said:
Man, last night I played demo 2, american version, -2 speed and no bar for pass assistance, Copa Libertadores (INternaciona vs América) and i tell you: what a great game (despite of being poor technically, specially animations)!

The first matchs I really struggle to find space in the middle because of CPU pressure (a bit annoying at first), my atacking plays lacked variety because of this, then I chose to go down the wing. Passing felt a bit like in slow motion, but then, after two or three games everything changed, I was used to the passing speed and ball physics got better, I managed to create variety of attacking plays and then I said to myself, OMG, what a game!
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I have said it again and again, -2 is the way to go with version 1.00 and I guess demo 2 is similar to version 1.00.

The slo-mo-effect of the ball wears off after a few matches and it becomes natural.

In 1.03 though speed -1 seems the way to go as it got a notch slower in general. -2 is too rigid there.

Since 1.06 seems a bit faster again I guess it will be -2 for me there.

From the feedback it seems, 1.06 improved these things:

- Better goalkeepers.
- Way less cheating.
- More midfield-play.
- More fluid dribbling and movement (I guess they returned to the fluidity of 1.00).
- The bug with the easy header-goals when your defense is too stupid to cover the strikers in the goal-area is considerably diminished.
- It has the play-one-more-game-addiction going on.

Yet it isn't perfect, cheating is still there but much more moderate and the goalkeeper still seems to make mistakes. I guess cheating is necessary because the AI is not that good to offer genuine challenge, maybe next-gen the AI will be another calibre. By the way, sometimes I even enjoy the cheating and can feel when it comes up and I try everything to stop the attackers, repositioning my defense, since they leave their positions and tackling with R2, sliding, whatever and cursing when a freekick gets granted as I know it will go in... it's a huge emotional coaster-ride and this feeling eventhough there is quite a bit of rage in it, has something, and it's especially rewarding when I can defeat the cheating once in a while.

So judging from this feedback, I guess it's safe to say, you can come back to PES.:BEER:
 
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xPJRx said:
Shooting isnt a lottery at all, its just very contextual.
I actually Love PES12's shooting, with a few tweaks for PES13 here and there it would be just fine.

I once thought shooting was awful, then I started to get better players and 'learn' the shooting contextes and methods and very rarely (id say less than 1 in every 25 shots) will a hot go anywhere other than where i aim it.
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What are people using to shoot? Mine dont seem to go anywhere.
I cant shoot fast and low.
 
henrys hand said:
I have said it again and again, -2 is the way to go with version 1.00 and I guess demo 2 is similar to version 1.00.

The slo-mo-effect of the ball wears off after a few matches and it becomes natural.

In 1.03 though speed -1 seems the way to go as it got a notch slower in general. -2 is too rigid there.

Since 1.06 seems a bit faster again I guess it will be -2 for me there.

From the feedback it seems, 1.06 improved these things:

- Better goalkeepers.
- Way less cheating.
- More midfield-play.
- More fluid dribbling and movement (I guess they returned to the fluidity of 1.00).
- The bug with the easy header-goals when your defense is too stupid to cover the strikers in the goal-area is considerably diminished.
- It has the play-one-more-game-addiction going on.

Yet it isn't perfect, cheating is still there but much more moderate and the goalkeeper still seems to make mistakes. I guess cheating is necessary because the AI is not that good to offer genuine challenge, maybe next-gen the AI will be another calibre.

So judging from this feedback, I guess it's safe to say, you can come back to PES.:BEER:
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In my first weeks with Pes 2012, i really enjoyed paying Pes 2012 with teams like Barcelona or Bayer in Professional dificulty (Top Player was scripted and very unfair). In one of the two versions (1.00 or 1.01, i guess it was 1.00), the CPU offered a more fair experience densivelly (less pressure, more space) and the freedom to pass the ball was there yet. But when i picked up a lesser team for a better challenge (I guess it was Lyon), teammate AI was completly lost and have no idea to move to give me alternatives to pass the ball, completely differen from the demos (active AI was gone), it was a completely mess and even Madrid was in all defence tatics to get a fast counter attack. It was really rubbish and disappointing.

I have no idea how the game plays now with patch 1.03, -2 speed, 0 bar assistance,let alone this last patch.
 
Wow, huge difference. The game is actually fun now. Dribbling is much better and if you get past a slow defender with a fast dribbler you can actually pull away even with a striker getting his run correctly.

I still see some weird defensive AI problems such as the CB switching places with the mid field, but the sense of weight and defenders making reads is much better presented than before.

Passing feels much better due to the more realistic ball physics, and you can see this right away from the goal kicks to the shots, which is dramatically improved. I seem to hit the shots wide instead of always down the middle now.

Keeper feels more realistic, but they still have really bad movements in the box.

Game is very playable now, great job Konami and hopefully this patch is used as the base to build upon 2013. They can't mess it up now can they?
 
Srider said:
Wow, huge difference. The game is actually fun now. Dribbling is much better and if you get past a slow defender with a fast dribbler you can actually pull away even with a striker getting his run correctly.

I still see some weird defensive AI problems such as the CB switching places with the mid field, but the sense of weight and defenders making reads is much better presented than before.

Passing feels much better due to the more realistic ball physics, and you can see this right away from the goal kicks to the shots, which is dramatically improved. I seem to hit the shots wide instead of always down the middle now.

Keeper feels more realistic, but they still have really bad movements in the box.

Game is very playable now, great job Konami and hopefully this patch is used as the base to build upon 2013. They can't mess it up now can they?
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Wow.. very good impressions. But you better play tons of more games to make sure that the games has changed so positively like you made it sound (I hope so)!

Looking forward to buy Pes 2012 AGAIN and coming back home (Konami), but just for offline matchs since online competition is alwasy rubbish (standard gameplay very arcade in i'ts default settings and full of cheaters that just want the win, not a fair and more realistic football game).
 
Top Player and Superstar are as demanding as ever, but now it's much more realistic and the feeling that the CPU is cheating on all departments is almost non existent.
 
CPU team mates are so good that I'm letting them do most of work, set the player switching to Assisted and all I do is press X to put pressure, and I eventually get the ball.
 
Flaw3d Genius said:
Really just feels like how they released the game to me (1.00) but with the last patch's (1.03) shooting/keepers.
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Strange, that there are so diverse impressions going round regarding the patch, some say it's the best thing Konami did, finally finishing the game's development, others say it's just placebo.
 
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