PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

[RAMAXWY]

Most who criticze the game here are fairly reasonable IMO. I like the franchise a lot, but it has huge flaws. Pointing these flaws out in a reasonable way is good for the PES-series. Blind positivism is not a good thing.

the problem i have is that the people who criticize the game always come up with a very long list of how bad the game is but rarely do we see a list of the things it does so good and that's wrong because like someone pointed out a few posts back it has its flaws like any other game but claiming its just not playable because of them is plain nonsense.
it still plays the best game of football on screen other then watching the real deal ofcourse.
if you ask me comparing it to FIFA makes no sense whatsoever.

if you've never played the game and are new to the franchise and read some of these posts you wouldn't even think of renting the game and that's just crap.

 

[RAMAXWY]

Really like this honest post. PES all day for me. I enjoy it and i know i'm going to keep on enjoying it.
The diversity of opinions on the product is, in my opinion justified. Not everybody is going to say they love it because it wouldn't be true. Konami need to keep on listening to this forum in order to achieve football excellence within the game. Surely people care enough and want to make this happen that's why comments differentiate vastly between positive and negative.

good point but my main problem is the good in this game outweighs the bad 10-0 so why just keep complaining about the bad.

just my opinion you know cause honestly some posts really blow my mind.

 

[klashman69]

I don't see anything to match here.I'm sure 2K can make a game light years ahead of PES and FIFA in one year.

Im 99% sure they could.

I'd love to see them try, we need more football games! If they started now, it would take them years and years! good, 3-4 years to get to a decent level! But just offer something different

Been looking at NBA 2k12. Clearly a amazing game, no doubt about it but people are quite badly objective when comparing NBA2K to FIFA and PES. PES2012gbg as usual with little overall perspective and just criticizing without putting too much through into his argument.

2K are a good company in my book, better than the crooks at EA, have more financial power than Konami and are more in touch with the westernized sports, in terms of getting the atmosphere right with current events. Thing is, look at their sports games.

It's ok to moderately compare sports games, NBA games from 2k are brilliant. however

- Their Ice hockey game has been shit, and really shit since 08 apparently. it's a very, very flawed game from what i hear.

- Top Spin is a game i like and a good game also but, quite very flawed again and robotic. yes they move realistically but eh way they maneuver across the court and the transitions seem a bit too robo like. Even if it's a pretty 'deep' game. It's flawed in that the power stat is too effective, way too effective.

- They have a baseball game, i don't know too much about that but i dosen't seem to be anything special.

Now in the past they used to also produce a great NFL game which got cancelled because those crooks at EA brought the exclusive license. So i think they have potential to offer us something good, but unlike this naivety I'm seeing here i don't expect miracles or a near flawless NBA2k esque game.

People lose perspective on how different basketball is compared to football, and also the content of both games.

There's more variables in football compared to Basketball and the nature of each sports are much different and i feel Football is harder to encapsulate. Firstly, basketball games don't have to worry about balancing the game and every function to represent a 90 minute match due to time limit of 10, 15, 20 minutes. People will be content to have low scoring games because of short time limits and there's no thought of making shooting easier because of time length to get those 89-96 scorelines etc, or dubbing down parts to get baskets..

Both FIFA and PES have to deliver gameplay which represent the entire globe of football and every style which is played, they have to represent attacking styled football, defensive, counter attacking, possession, sow football, fast football and the tons of variables, personalities and individuality for for it's teams. 2K just have to give representation to the NBA, they don't have to worry about European or South American Basketball. it's all condensed into just one league which gives them endless exclusive content while the other two have a battle just to retain and keep all their licensed.

FIFA and PES both have well over I'd say 200 teams. i think FIFA usually has say 350 or more. In a variety of different leagues with different licenses attached to them.

NBA 2k has just 30 NBA teams, plus for this year 36 classic teams, i mean look at this before hand when there where less classic teams, they have FULL NBA backing and licensing and have just 30 teams to cater for? All which fit into the same franchise so the amazing commentary can be easily updated with NO limits like in PES where they can't say Arsenal because they have no license or discuss anything about unlicensed teams and players playing for those teams.

I'm not making any excuses for PES shit commentary over the years btw, in fact my point is that EA really do their best to provide great commentary, they can't really do much more.

As you can see I'm taking nothing away from 2k here, i mean even when you consider these things it's a better game than PES and FIFA but not by millions of miles like people are naively saying here without perspective. Also, this company is good but not everything it touches turns to gold like i said before. It's never created a football game before, so it needs to not just get the funding and full backing but collect a team together, get licenses and work with pro footballers, mangers to build a foundation. Some people think this is just a walk in the park and it's easy, i mean, I'm getting criticized for being biased but look at the poor perspective people have in some of their cynical arguments!

PES needs a better atmosphere an the NBA series is an example of what can be represented but, there's no need to show them that, fuck, show them virtual striker 3/4 on the PS2 which had better crowd animation, banners, flags and colours. The sound, Konami needs to extent it's operations and hire a third party European company to handle all the sound, and the animations could be better, more variety but really just making sure the right solid movements are in. We all know FIFA's continuous flaws.

My argument here is, get some realistic perspective and make sure you argument is reasonable. Really! 2KSports just roll up in and create a perfect football game, you guys need to get real. I'd like to see something from them but i don't expect it to be amazing until at least the 4th edition in the series or so. Not just for this subject but in general. There's a few too many people with these half baked views running around thinking they are experts!

I'm probably going to get criticized again for stating this, if someone says i'm being biased, i think I'll just leave you all to it to be honest.

 

[klashman69]

the problem i have is that the people who criticize the game always come up with a very long list of how bad the game is but rarely do we see a list of the things it does so good and that's wrong because like someone pointed out a few posts back it has its flaws like any other game but claiming its just not playable because of them is plain nonsense.
it still plays the best game of football on screen other then watching the real deal ofcourse.
if you ask me comparing it to FIFA makes no sense whatsoever.

if you've never played the game and are new to the franchise and read some of these posts you wouldn't even think of renting the game and that's just crap.

Being negative is COOL!! forget bringing a balanced argument, just moan about the game all day. It makes you sound badass

Spoiler

HINT of sarcasm!

Haha 2k better not dare try and make a football game. They'll be fucked before they start. The amount of time Konami and EA have put in to bring the respectable games is not just a year.

I made a long post about this but overall I'd like to see them try and give us something else at least!

the more the merrier, we can't another situation like with the Smackdown series where there is just one game and the company shells out he same shit every year because of no competition. I'd like to see 4-5 companies push eachover rather than 2.

Also a friendly rivalry, rather than this petty fighting.

 

[gomito#10]

I'd love to see them try, we need more football games! If they started now, it would take them years and years! good, 3-4 years to get to a decent level! But just offer something different

Been looking at NBA 2k12. Clearly a amazing game, no doubt about it but people are quite badly objective when comparing NBA2K to FIFA and PES. PES2012gbg as usual with little overall perspective and just criticizing without putting too much through into his argument.

2K are a good company in my book, better than the crooks at EA, have more financial power than Konami and are more in touch with the westernized sports, in terms of getting the atmosphere right with current events. Thing is, look at their sports games.

It's ok to moderately compare sports games, NBA games from 2k are brilliant. however

- Their Ice hockey game has been shit, and really shit since 08 apparently. it's a very, very flawed game from what i hear.

- Top Spin is a game i like and a good game also but, quite very flawed again and robotic. yes they move realistically but eh way they maneuver across the court and the transitions seem a bit too robo like. Even if it's a pretty 'deep' game. It's flawed in that the power stat is too effective, way too effective.

- They have a baseball game, i don't know too much about that but i dosen't seem to be anything special.

Now in the past they used to also produce a great NFL game which got cancelled because those crooks at EA brought the exclusive license. So i think they have potential to offer us something good, but unlike this naivety I'm seeing here i don't expect miracles or a near flawless NBA2k esque game.

People lose perspective on how different basketball is compared to football, and also the content of both games.

There's more variables in football compared to Basketball and the nature of each sports are much different and i feel Football is harder to encapsulate. Firstly, basketball games don't have to worry about balancing the game and every function to represent a 90 minute match due to time limit of 10, 15, 20 minutes. People will be content to have low scoring games because of short time limits and there's no thought of making shooting easier because of time length to get those 89-96 scorelines etc, or dubbing down parts to get baskets..

Both FIFA and PES have to deliver gameplay which represent the entire globe of football and every style which is played, they have to represent attacking styled football, defensive, counter attacking, possession, sow football, fast football and the tons of variables, personalities and individuality for for it's teams. 2K just have to give representation to the NBA, they don't have to worry about European or South American Basketball. it's all condensed into just one league which gives them endless exclusive content while the other two have a battle just to retain and keep all their licensed.

FIFA and PES both have well over I'd say 200 teams. i think FIFA usually has say 350 or more. In a variety of different leagues with different licenses attached to them.

NBA 2k has just 30 NBA teams, plus for this year 36 classic teams, i mean look at this before hand when there where less classic teams, they have FULL NBA backing and licensing and have just 30 teams to cater for? All which fit into the same franchise so the amazing commentary can be easily updated with NO limits like in PES where they can't say Arsenal because they have no license or discuss anything about unlicensed teams and players playing for those teams.

I'm not making any excuses for PES shit commentary over the years btw, in fact my point is that EA really do their best to provide great commentary, they can't really do much more.

As you can see I'm taking nothing away from 2k here, i mean even when you consider these things it's a better game than PES and FIFA but not by millions of miles like people are naively saying here without perspective. Also, this company is good but not everything it touches turns to gold like i said before. It's never created a football game before, so it needs to not just get the funding and full backing but collect a team together, get licenses and work with pro footballers, mangers to build a foundation. Some people think this is just a walk in the park and it's easy, i mean, I'm getting criticized for being biased but look at the poor perspective people have in some of their cynical arguments!

PES needs a better atmosphere an the NBA series is an example of what can be represented but, there's no need to show them that, fuck, show them virtual striker 3/4 on the PS2 which had better crowd animation, banners, flags and colours. The sound, Konami needs to extent it's operations and hire a third party European company to handle all the sound, and the animations could be better, more variety but really just making sure the right solid movements are in. We all know FIFA's continuous flaws.

My argument here is, get some realistic perspective and make sure you argument is reasonable. Really! 2KSports just roll up in and create a perfect football game, you guys need to get real. I'd like to see something from them but i don't expect it to be amazing until at least the 4th edition in the series or so. Not just for this subject but in general. There's a few too many people with these half baked views running around thinking they are experts!

I'm probably going to get criticized again for stating this, if someone says i'm being biased, i think I'll just leave you all to it to be honest.

dude in 2k basketball the engine allows you to play any style you want bro... you have a good point about individuality(i think your wrong in the end), BUT again 2k's editing and tendencies and stats you can make any player you want... It would apply very well to the patching community, except now you can download rosters(i have been playing with classic 2k teams for years thanks to 2k share). You can edit a player to play different then anyone else on the court... bottom line

2K GETS IT!

the hockey game aint that bad and hte baseball game has been very well received by the community

 

[RAMAXWY]

Being negative is COOL!! forget bringing a balanced argument, just moan about the game all day. It makes you sound badass

Spoiler

HINT of sarcasm!

well, that explains it then

 

[klashman69]

dude in 2k basketball the engine allows you to play any style you want bro... you have a good point about individuality(i think your wrong in the end), BUT again 2k's editing and tendencies and stats you can make any player you want... It would apply very well to the patching community, except now you can download rosters(i have been playing with classic 2k teams for years thanks to 2k share). You can edit a player to play different then anyone else on the court... bottom line

2K GETS IT!

the hockey game aint that bad and hte baseball game has been very well received by the community

i heard the hockey game was truly awful and they considering it's future.

I don't know too much about it's baseball game but people should see my point, their Basketball game is amazing but i can't see them making a football game on that level! You can see with it's hockey game, tennis game and baseball game, come nowhere near to the basketball game, why people think a football being amazing is a given is naivety.

Also if 2K even remotely cared about football they would of made some sort of game by now i think.

 

[sedax]

I'd love to see them try, we need more football games! If they started now, it would take them years and years! good, 3-4 years to get to a decent level! But just offer something different

Been looking at NBA 2k12. Clearly a amazing game, no doubt about it but people are quite badly objective when comparing NBA2K to FIFA and PES. PES2012gbg as usual with little overall perspective and just criticizing without putting too much through into his argument.

2K are a good company in my book, better than the crooks at EA, have more financial power than Konami and are more in touch with the westernized sports, in terms of getting the atmosphere right with current events. Thing is, look at their sports games.

It's ok to moderately compare sports games, NBA games from 2k are brilliant. however

- Their Ice hockey game has been shit, and really shit since 08 apparently. it's a very, very flawed game from what i hear.

- Top Spin is a game i like and a good game also but, quite very flawed again and robotic. yes they move realistically but eh way they maneuver across the court and the transitions seem a bit too robo like. Even if it's a pretty 'deep' game. It's flawed in that the power stat is too effective, way too effective.

- They have a baseball game, i don't know too much about that but i dosen't seem to be anything special.

Now in the past they used to also produce a great NFL game which got cancelled because those crooks at EA brought the exclusive license. So i think they have potential to offer us something good, but unlike this naivety I'm seeing here i don't expect miracles or a near flawless NBA2k esque game.

People lose perspective on how different basketball is compared to football, and also the content of both games.

There's more variables in football compared to Basketball and the nature of each sports are much different and i feel Football is harder to encapsulate. Firstly, basketball games don't have to worry about balancing the game and every function to represent a 90 minute match due to time limit of 10, 15, 20 minutes. People will be content to have low scoring games because of short time limits and there's no thought of making shooting easier because of time length to get those 89-96 scorelines etc, or dubbing down parts to get baskets..

Both FIFA and PES have to deliver gameplay which represent the entire globe of football and every style which is played, they have to represent attacking styled football, defensive, counter attacking, possession, sow football, fast football and the tons of variables, personalities and individuality for for it's teams. 2K just have to give representation to the NBA, they don't have to worry about European or South American Basketball. it's all condensed into just one league which gives them endless exclusive content while the other two have a battle just to retain and keep all their licensed.

FIFA and PES both have well over I'd say 200 teams. i think FIFA usually has say 350 or more. In a variety of different leagues with different licenses attached to them.

NBA 2k has just 30 NBA teams, plus for this year 36 classic teams, i mean look at this before hand when there where less classic teams, they have FULL NBA backing and licensing and have just 30 teams to cater for? All which fit into the same franchise so the amazing commentary can be easily updated with NO limits like in PES where they can't say Arsenal because they have no license or discuss anything about unlicensed teams and players playing for those teams.

I'm not making any excuses for PES shit commentary over the years btw, in fact my point is that EA really do their best to provide great commentary, they can't really do much more.

As you can see I'm taking nothing away from 2k here, i mean even when you consider these things it's a better game than PES and FIFA but not by millions of miles like people are naively saying here without perspective. Also, this company is good but not everything it touches turns to gold like i said before. It's never created a football game before, so it needs to not just get the funding and full backing but collect a team together, get licenses and work with pro footballers, mangers to build a foundation. Some people think this is just a walk in the park and it's easy, i mean, I'm getting criticized for being biased but look at the poor perspective people have in some of their cynical arguments!

PES needs a better atmosphere an the NBA series is an example of what can be represented but, there's no need to show them that, fuck, show them virtual striker 3/4 on the PS2 which had better crowd animation, banners, flags and colours. The sound, Konami needs to extent it's operations and hire a third party European company to handle all the sound, and the animations could be better, more variety but really just making sure the right solid movements are in. We all know FIFA's continuous flaws.

My argument here is, get some realistic perspective and make sure you argument is reasonable. Really! 2KSports just roll up in and create a perfect football game, you guys need to get real. I'd like to see something from them but i don't expect it to be amazing until at least the 4th edition in the series or so. Not just for this subject but in general. There's a few too many people with these half baked views running around thinking they are experts!

I'm probably going to get criticized again for stating this, if someone says i'm being biased, i think I'll just leave you all to it to be honest.

I don't say anything like perfect game but.If you say we will have to wait years i don't agree with that.We are already waiting for KONAMI and EA."PES is on the right way".I hear this every year. And i m not satisfied with the way they come.They are moving slowly.I say they can make a better game because; they have a proper approach to sports game: sliders, tendencies for each player and each team.This is very important.KONAMI has a very solid AI this year but teams lack indivuality because they don't have a system like 2k.Also we know KONAMI has problems with animations and a very big problem with presentation( sounds, atmosphere ie).I compare them with KONAMI because i think PES is already better than FIFA. There is nothing to talk there. But 2k will have same problem with KONAMI: Licenses. They are not producing a football game because of that problem.

About basketball i think you are wrong because most people play with 12 minutes simulation quarters and we pay attention to not just scoresheet but the fg%, 3pt%, rebound rates of each match and that game can provide exactly same stats as a real NBA game.That's the problem with football games. They don't have an opiton for simulation type players.Teams number doesnt matter here because i can make hundreds of teams with different gamestyles with different indivudual talents in NBA 2K games.Also basketball games require much more physic and animations for each player. You can't compare the difficulty level to make a realistic Rose and realistic Xavi. I think making a football game is easier than making an NBA game but i respect your opinion.

 

[Isslander]

Do people really play full 12 minute quarters on NBA 2K? If you play a full season, do you have time to do anything else at all?

 

[sedax]

Do people really play full 12 minute quarters on NBA 2K? If you play a full season, do you have time to do anything else at all?

i play 12 minutes quarters and i didnt meet a single one playing 5 minutes or so in online games.I also use slider sets suggesting to play 10-12 minutes quarters and i saw a lot of people downloading it.So IMO yes.I played 3 seasons of my player with 82 games + 1. year ECF, 2. year NBA finals and 3. year conference semi finals.I also played a full association season with Orlando.

 

[theopinion]

NBA 2k11 was excellent and it looks like NBA 2k12 will follow suit. People need to realise the resources ($$$) required to making football games compared to NFL and NBA or even MLB games is probably not that different.But the problem is that the NFL = one league, NBA = one league with the 2nd division included, MLB same story etc.

With Football(Soccer) games its each league individually Barclays Premier League,BBVA La Primera ,Bundesliga etc. that need to be licensed to be included.

Many more Teams and players that need to be created and given individualised statistics. Plus the nature of the game itself(Football) is a completely different nature to the afore mentioned titles.

I am not saying 2k wouldnt be able to create a great football game, lets say the were only going to create a game based on just the Barclays Premier League, call it Barclays 2k12, i would expect the best presentation and gameplay because they would easily outdo both Konami and Fifa, if all they had to do was create one league with 18 teams, they are that good. I love individualism in PES and its great FIFA to a lesser extent, but NBA 2k11 has it covered 100%...Now if KONAMI and 2k got together...!

 

[klashman69]

I don't say anything like perfect game but.If you say we will have to wait years i don't agree with that.We are already waiting for KONAMI and EA."PES is on the right way".I hear this every year. And i m not satisfied with the way they come.They are moving slowly.I say they can make a better game because; they have a proper approach to sports game: sliders, tendencies for each player and each team.This is very important.KONAMI has a very solid AI this year but teams lack indivuality because they don't have a system like 2k.Also we know KONAMI has problems with animations and a very big problem with presentation( sounds, atmosphere ie).I compare them with KONAMI because i think PES is already better than FIFA. There is nothing to talk there. But 2k will have same problem with KONAMI: Licenses. They are not producing a football game because of that problem.

There's licenses available for them to get, i mean there's loads of national teams to take, also they can do what Konami does and put basic kits in with licensed teams. I think it really is just they are an true American company and they aren't that interested in funding a soccer game.

Also i don't get this thing about PES 2012 not having individuality. I mean, i might as well just stop playing the game now then, all the tactics i create and help i try to give about learning to play with certain players, i mean, so most players are the same. Ok, I'll just stop playing football games then if there's hardly any individuality in PES. I guess I'm just wasting time

I mean, i don't know what to say anymore. I don't mind sliders but like FIFA has shown, sliders don't really bring out individuality, that comes as standard built into the game engine. Sliders just change the balance to allow certain things t happen more or less, and create new balances depending on what the player likes.

I like Sliders but i can cope without them for now.

About basketball i think you are wrong because most people play with 12 minutes simulation quarters and we pay attention to not just scoresheet but the fg%, 3pt%, rebound rates of each match and that game can provide exactly same stats as a real NBA game.

you mean percentages of a real life game? That's still a lot easier compared to football games, only certain elements of basketball need to be changed to fit realistically into 12 minute games. Pretty much ever basic element off football needs to be rebalanced. Shooting, passing, crossing, defensive positioning, attacking runs, pretty much everything must be balanced so games don't produce crazy scorelines every match or crazy stats. into just that the events need to be realistic depending on what teams you use.

Basketball games and NBA top level games (excuse my ignorance) tend to play out in similar fashion, obviously every team is different, players have their own unique skills but unlike football where you can watch a Brazilian league match and then watch a South African League match then a English Championship league match. I mean it's almost like watching three separate sports altogether! FIFA and PES has to replicate not just one league but many with hugely different styles and football philosophies.

That's the problem with football games. They don't have an opiton for simulation type players.Teams number doesnt matter here because i can make hundreds of teams with different gamestyles with different indivudual talents in NBA 2K games.

Also basketball games require much more physic and animations for each player.

You can't compare the difficulty level to make a realistic Rose and realistic Xavi. I think making a football game is easier than making an NBA game but i respect your opinion.

I just really doubt this. Football is a more simple game in it's rules but far more complex because it requires more perception and there is far more freedom compared to basketball. It also requires more skills to be simulated in a football game compared to basketball, there's so much diversity in football, so many truly unique players all over the world. Like i said 2K sports is making a game really centered around just the NBA. NBA style and quality basketball is different to Basketball in South America, and Europe, FIFA and PES don't just work on one league, they have to cater for many styles.

Even if basketball maybe an equally difficult sport to replicate as football, they have other games which come nowhere near as good as the basketball game, it's going to take them years, and huge financial backing and vigorous enthusiasm to get to FIFA and PES level.

Also I'm not knocking Basketball at all. it's defiantly a sport with requires a hell of a lot of skill, it's easily one of the most attractive and best sports on this planet. I just think football has more depth and freedom.

I used to play basketball, i was good at shooting but crap and dribbling.

 

[Bobo21]

Attack of the Thing!

What the bloody 'ell?!

Fired up the game and this is what pops up right after a goal, during all pauses, and whenever the scoreboard is shown at the bottom of the screen!! Konami have sold their soul to Hollywood!

 

[sedax]

There's licenses available for them to get, i mean there's loads of national teams to take, also they can do what Konami does and put basic kits in with licensed teams. I think it really is just they are an true American company and they aren't that interested in funding a soccer game.

Also i don't get this thing about PES 2012 not having individuality. I mean, i might as well just stop playing the game now then, all the tactics i create and help i try to give about learning to play with certain players, i mean, so most players are the same. Ok, I'll just stop playing football games then if there's hardly any individuality in PES. I guess I'm just wasting time

I mean, i don't know what to say anymore. I don't mind sliders but like FIFA has shown, sliders don't really bring out individuality, that comes as standard built into the game engine. Sliders just change the balance to allow certain things t happen more or less, and create new balances depending on what the player likes.

I like Sliders but i can cope without them for now.



you mean percentages of a real life game? That's still a lot easier compared to football games, only certain elements of basketball need to be changed to fit realistically into 12 minute games. Pretty much ever basic element off football needs to be rebalanced. Shooting, passing, crossing, defensive positioning, attacking runs, pretty much everything must be balanced so games don't produce crazy scorelines every match or crazy stats. into just that the events need to be realistic depending on what teams you use.

Basketball games and NBA top level games (excuse my ignorance) tend to play out in similar fashion, obviously every team is different, players have their own unique skills but unlike football where you can watch a Brazilian league match and then watch a South African League match then a English Championship league match. I mean it's almost like watching three separate sports altogether! FIFA and PES has to replicate not just one league but many with hugely different styles and football philosophies.




I just really doubt this. Football is a more simple game in it's rules but far more complex because it requires more perception and there is far more freedom compared to basketball. It also requires more skills to be simulated in a football game compared to basketball, there's so much diversity in football, so many truly unique players all over the world. Like i said 2K sports is making a game really centered around just the NBA. NBA style and quality basketball is different to Basketball in South America, and Europe, FIFA and PES don't just work on one league, they have to cater for many styles.

Even if basketball maybe an equally difficult sport to replicate as football, they have other games which come nowhere near as good as the basketball game, it's going to take them years, and huge financial backing and vigorous enthusiasm to get to FIFA and PES level.

Also I'm not knocking Basketball at all. it's defiantly a sport with requires a hell of a lot of skill, it's easily one of the most attractive and best sports on this planet. I just think football has more depth and freedom.

I used to play basketball, i was good at shooting but crap and dribbling.

i guess i cant explain what i m saying.Number of teams doesn't matter.They may be 400 teams in PES but with current system it wouldn't represent their styles properly.There are a few options to determine a teams play.Long ball, counter attack doesnt cut it..You say there is and you play the game, i don't feel it and i didn't buy these games.But i won't go complaining all over the place.That' not my point.I just want a better game in near future so i try to think a way to reach that.FIFA sliders are not an issue here they failed in NBA games too so they are poor example but In 2k you have 47-48 sliders for general gameplay with each slider have 100 options, also you have a lot of tendencies for each player and add playbooks to them.Also much more options to players' each move. I say 2K can make a better game because that system seems to be better way to create indivuality and simulation.I created Fenerbahçe Ülker and Turkish national team in 2k11 and it was so easy to do,results were very good (For example Turkey went bricking 3s all over the place just like they did in Euro ).I m not comparing NBA to football here. I have my opinions on that but that's not the part of this discussion thread.

 

[sincover]

More corporate competition is ALWAYS better for the consumer. Had 2k Sports not entered the basketball fray, EA would still be shoving that shit down our throats. NBA 2k11 has forced EA to reconsider their strategy and now they are taking a year off to make the game better. It's a win-win for gamers because 2012/2013 will be a year of extremely high quality basketball games.

On another note, I started playing the ML with Sporting and the difference is huge. The teams in Liga Sangres actually play differently and don't all depend on 'strong man' play. The result is a lot more dynamic than the awful D2 league.

 

[iluvnineties]

I don't know what you guys are complaining about. Konami already PERFECTED the football game. Its called WINNING ELEVEN 9 LIVEWARE EVOLUTION. If you new school guys do some digging you'll see why WE9LE whipes the floor with PES12 and FIFA 12 all together. But many people are just graphic whores these days. Its funny how KONAMI and EA are bliding some people. They deliver you awesome graphics, good animations, collision system BOOM we have a realistic.game? ?? Really? Play WE9LE and see what a realistic, TRUE football simulation feels like.

Konami already gave you the best game of all times, its your fault your playing these arcade games and filling their pockets with money.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

I use HDMI cables in 1080i. The 1080p option is grayed out in my Xbox display settings. Any idea how to enable this 1080p display?

Is your TV full high definition? If not, maybe the TV only supports up to 1080i....or possibly the HDMI cable only supports up to 1080i. Either way, try setting the xbox to 720p and use a preset on your TV called movie/cinema/theatre. something like that and it should look good.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

More corporate competition is ALWAYS better for the consumer. Had 2k Sports not entered the basketball fray, EA would still be shoving that shit down our throats. NBA 2k11 has forced EA to reconsider their strategy and now they are taking a year off to make the game better. It's a win-win for gamers because 2012/2013 will be a year of extremely high quality basketball games.

On another note, I started playing the ML with Sporting and the difference is huge. The teams in Liga Sangres actually play differently and don't all depend on 'strong man' play. The result is a lot more dynamic than the awful D2 league.

So if you go through and edit the team styles in team management before you start a ML, does the team use them or do they change them back on the fly to something else, eventually reverting to default and not to what you've edited them to?

I mean for every other team in the game - not your own team.

 

[zeemeister]

Yeah klashman I agree 100 % the more football games the better. If only "this is football" had stuck around who knows what could have transpired. My problem is people assume that 2K would blow everything out of the water.

I own NBA2k11, top spin 4 and MLB11 it has to be said that those games aesthetically are very impressive and elements like NBAs mo cap and stamina system are marvellous but basketball is an entirely different ball game so to speak you could not take the elements and dump them in a football game and expect the same result.

The team variation and player individuality is not very good either and the database of players and teams are significantly less compared to PES and FIFA.

 

[ccshopland]

Okay, so I've been smashing this game for two/three days non stop, full retail (US Version). It's as full as I can make it so if you can't read long write ups this isn't for you!

Here's my verdict -

My God this game is SO close to perfection, that the glaring errors with it make me want to cry. I started with a lot of exhibition games to get the flow of it, it is ever so slightly different to the demos in that things are generally a touch smoother.

I then jumped into Master League, with Liverpool, Top Player, Semi Assisted, default passing assistance. I play on -1 speed, 15 min games, pitchside camera. I have played about half a season as Liverpool using the default players and I am 17th!

Half of me thinks this game is simply the best football game I've ever played. Here's why -

Every game I am learning something new. I have played well over two hundred games with the demo, and have played lots now with the full retail. I love the passing, I love the ways the players find space and I love that you have to look deeply at your tactics. I think the player individuality is absolutely brilliant. Get Gerrard on the ball and he's strong, marauding and is your archetypal English powerhouse in midfield. Then there's someone like Adam, what a left peg he has! I have scored some truly stunning efforts with him so far. Then you have Downing or couldn't hit a fly off the ball, but is decent when in one on one situations and who has a terrific cross. Carroll, good in the air and can hold play up. Individuality is all over the pitch. You can feel it.

My second point - and to people who say every game pans out the same - are you insane?!? I have had every match you can think of. I have had slow European ties that have petered out into draws and rip roaring end to end screamers. We all know about the AI etc, but I want to go into more detail about the way the game pans out AND I THINK THIS IS THE INCREDIBLE PART.

From my experience this is why I love the game so much (when it clicks). I played Wolves with a 4-4-1-1 formation and was winning 2-0. I then made a change a brought Carroll off, left Suarez on his own up top and shored up the midfield a bit bringing on Lucas to to a holding role, 4-1-4-1 now. I then lost the ball rashly in midfield and Wolves simply pounced on it to make it two-one. Looking back I made the sub too early as the last twenty minutes was ALL Wolves. They got back to 2-2 and the momentum was all with them. In the end I was lucky to escape with a draw, this was all after coasting at 2-0 with them not threatening my goal for 70 minutes.

I played Man Utd, went one-nil up, and then for the last twenty minutes I could feel the pressure. Suddenly they were closing down quicker, pressing higher, taking more risks. If you look throughout the game the CPU makes lots of changes to their formations that you have to keep up with. They inevitably scored on 85 to make it 1-1.

My point is with these two examples is that the CPU changes lots during a game. If they score then you can expect them to adopt a more conservative approach with a deep line. Some games I seem to have all the time in the world to pass, look up and pass again. Other times they close down the midfield area with some great individual pressure.

You'd think I'd be really pissed off with the game that I'm seventeenth? I used to win Master League all the time on the old PES, but there has definitely got that one more game feel. I could have cried when Wolves equalised yesterday. I had come off two bad defeats where Wigan and especially Rodellega caused havoc with me beating me 4-1. And then I was beaten by Arsenal. So to go two-nil up and have them come back to 2-2 was a dagger through the heart.

I love the way you can use momentum in this game, I can glide past players provided I see the CPU angle of closing down and get my body position right, it's this type of subtlety that FIFA will never match. The amount of intricate things that I find on a daily basis blows my mind.

A word of advice - this is NOT a game where you can play with screaming kids and your missus keeping on at you. It requires full concentration, and total focus. To shut out Chelsea or Man City on Top Player, well you deserve a fucking gaming Oscar. It was no coincidence that when I moved the PS3 upstairs out of the way I started playing better.

The range of goals is awesome. And when you implement something 'out of the box' like a little chipped ball for Carroll to flick on then Suarez volleys, it looks simply amazing. The more I play it, the more I love it when I have possession. So, so far so good then aye?!?

Which brings me onto why the other half of me thinks the game is either partially broken, or that the CPU has some of the biggest nastiest scripts ever!

For every game that I think KONAMI have cracked it, and for every game where I think that was awesome win, lose or draw, there's that niggling game round the corner that drives me insane.

I came off the Wolves game and although I drew, it was a blast. I knew where I went wrong, I made a defensive formation switch too early, gave away a sloppy goal and was ultimately punished for it. I then played QPR and it was a dull 0-0 stalemate. They parked the bus and I couldn't break them down. Again, I was just lacking that bit of creativity but had no complaints.

THEN, Chelsea. And before this it happened with a couple of other teams too. THEY WERE SIMPLY UNSTOPPABLE. Any CPU team that plays an attacking formation, like Chelsea's 4-3-3 you know you're in for a hiding. You can play whatever formation, with whatever sliders, it really doesn't matter. You can have all your defenders on red, with two holding DMF's and a defensive midfield line, THEY WILL STILL RIP YOU UP.

Some of the goals they scored were truly ping pong astounding, but in a really bad way.

Which brings me on to the defending this year.

The defenders this year are clearly way underpowered. Carragher v Torres v example is like watching Usain Bolt v my 6 year old daughter.

DEFENDERS NEED A MAJOR BOOST OR ATTACKERS NEED A MAJOR DECREASE IN ABILITY.

It simply isn't fair. To all the defender kings - I try everything, cutting down passing lanes, following runners, RT+x, RT+O. You can try press you can try secondary press, the simple result is that the CPU will play some magic football that only Barce are truly capable of. You can try man marking people or not, you can try what you like, if the CPU decides it is going to maul you it will. You can use contain and get everyone behind the ball, this only works for so long. Once they get a free kick in or around the eighteen yard box it's a goal. Someone said they score 11 times out of 10, I think it's more 37 times out of 10! Van der Vaart scored three consecutive free kicks from the same distance (around 25 yards) two days ago, I has laughing to myself.

Chelsea were four nil up inside twenty minutes.

The game is just way too lopsided. A patch needs to be brought out ASAP to balance the game.

For all the fun I have, there's always this type of game that ruins the whole experience. The game seemed to go from -1 speed, to +34 speed too. Everyone of Chelsea was playing like they were on speed, my defenders suddenly became mongs, I watched the replays and I had left backs wandering, central defenders trying to play offfside on their 18 yard box to let Torres saunter through.

I tried to have a look at the tactics boars for all the teams and try and make two teams Man Utd and Stoke play like they do IRL. Klash over at evo-web is trying to experiment also. To watch a cpu v cpu game is a hideous affair. I put Man Utd on possession football changed their tactics, and put things like player support to 0, to MAKE them pass them ball. They couldn't. Stoke, who I set to Long Ball played more football. Which brings me onto my next point. I don't think it's a problem with tactics, sliders, they may be next to useless. What makes the players super human and not pass the ball is their cards and stats. Regardless if you set a team up to PLAY A CERTAIN WAY, they simply won't if their individual stats determine that they have all the turning cards, trickster shit, direct play etc etc. No wonder Nani never passes the ball, he is literally pre-programmed to run at every opportunity. He's got like a million TAKE THE FUCKING DEFENDER ON CARDS.

Which makes it even more difficult than first thought to make the game enjoyable as editing team styles has little effect on how the team plays.

I also feel scripting is prevalent in the game. For example I was one nil up yesterday when the CPU decided to start raping me with through balls down the wing by passing my right back. Fine I thought, my defensive line is a little high and he is positioned on the tactics screen high too. Let's drop defensive line to 3 and pull him back a bit. But it made no difference whatsoever. The through ball was getting by my full back every time. It was like the CPU decided that they were going to cross the ball in regardless.

Man, this has got to be the single most frustrating game ever.

If KONAMI just shored up the defensive side and made the defenders stronger in a challenge or at least tone down the directness of the CPU then this game would be the BEST FOOTBALL GAME EVER.

However, as it is not balanced my score goes from a 9, 9.5/10, to around an 8. It is so frustrating, but if Konami don't do anything about it I'm, going to have to spend about two weeks doing things myself.

Hand in hand with all the problems I've mentioned are the GK's. Okay fine they've been patched, but they are still shit especially if you play a certain way of trying to restrict the CPU to shots outside the box. I have literally no confidence in Reina at all. Every shot from the CPU I have my heart in my mouth. I don't think its the hard shots that are pissing people off. It's that slow rolling one. Someone like Berbatov for example has outside curve to his game, and he can literally pass the ball 5mph into the net without the keeper getting near. Also why do keepers still come out at a dreadful angle when I call them out with triangle at an angle. They never go for the ball, that is obviously broken. And why can't I have total control of the keeper once he has possession of it, it makes quick counters impossible. THE KEEPERS NEED MUCH MORE ATTENTION.

So these are my findings, agree or disagree, give me some feedback guys!

 

[Lyvean]

Yeah klashman I agree 100 % the more football games the better. If only "this is football" had stuck around who knows what could have transpired. My problem is people assume that 2K would blow everything out of the water.

I own NBA2k11, top spin 4 and MLB11 it has to be said that those games aesthetically are very impressive and elements like NBAs mo cap and stamina system are marvellous but basketball is an entirely different ball game so to speak you could not take the elements and dump them in a football game and expect the same result.

The team variation and player individuality is not very good either and the database of players and teams are significantly less compared to PES and FIFA.

A 2K football game won't blow everything out of the water, but it's certainly a more serious and professional developer than Konami or EA. And that says a lot.

Especially about Konami, I don't remember seeing a more unprofessional developer than Seabass and his team releasing such a high profile title.

The sad part of humanity though is that people actually stand up for them.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Are there any good gameplay video's out from the game post-patch? I'm interested to see the "more weighty" players. Full game not out in Australia so please take this comment with a pinch of salt, but something is irking me about the demo.

The players do move a little bit too fluidly for me - well more when they're turning. I think they may have shaved too many cycles off the animations. Last year I felt like there was proper weight behind the players and LOVED the use of R2 to take a tiny touch away from the oncoming player.

I loved the feeling of actually kicking the ball when passing. Now there's quite a few passes that seem to either roll along like a marble (depending on your camera angle) or seem as if the ball has been rolled away from your foot with a gust of wind.

As much as it's great to have smart AI that's always providing options, I was just checking out one of my goal video's from the demo. It seems that rather than jogging into space, a lot of your team are streaming forward as if they needed to score a last minute World Cup winning goal. With this urgency comes a propensity to be countered. And I've found a lot less midfield battles than last year.

Given that I mainly enjoyed the offline modes of PES and played a bit of MLO mixed with some online friendlies against a couple of mates, I'm starting to have doubts whether I will enjoy full match experiences with a lasting effect on PES 2012.

It seems that the majority of times you need to outwit your opponent with the aid of the AI are in the attacking third, or in the defensive third, where you need to be on your toes. What happened to the midfield?

I was a FIFA player until last year when I traded in FIFA 11 for PES 11 and loved it, even with some of it's flaws. Now I've been playing FIFA 12 for a few days and it's removed some of the problems I had with the last couple of FIFA's and I am really enjoying it. Even when a game is end to end, I actually have to work my way through midfield to get forward.

Again, I haven't played the final version (or work in progress as it seems until more patches are released) but someone please tell me it improves with longer game times, patches or 1 v 1 human!

 

[sedax]

Yeah klashman I agree 100 % the more football games the better. If only "this is football" had stuck around who knows what could have transpired. My problem is people assume that 2K would blow everything out of the water.

I own NBA2k11, top spin 4 and MLB11 it has to be said that those games aesthetically are very impressive and elements like NBAs mo cap and stamina system are marvellous but basketball is an entirely different ball game so to speak you could not take the elements and dump them in a football game and expect the same result.

The team variation and player individuality is not very good either and the database of players and teams are significantly less compared to PES and FIFA.

I still assume that and i dont have any doubts but opinions are opinions.We don't need to agree.My problem is you act like or you are about to say that Pes and Fifa games are as good as NBA 2K11 because football is hard, there are more teams etc. you complain about NBA 2K database(you can download or create limitless number of teams and players anyway) but i think you are forgetting that we are talking this in a PES editing forum.Every year this game needs heavily editing.I remember best PES game pes 6 was 3-4 gb and i have a 9gb kitserver folder.You know you can create your own shot in NBA2K12 right? Did KONAMI or EA gave us this chance to us in any football game? it isn't possible because that's basketball and this is football right?

 

[Enzo]

I don't see anything to match here.I'm sure 2K can make a game light years ahead of PES and FIFA in one year.

If they can get even a single licence, otherways it would be football without real teams, real stadiums etc

Actually i would prefer someone to make gameplay engine similar to PES2012 and let users create infinite amount of players/teams/league/modes themself. Really strong editing tools, like Neverwinter nights aurora toolkit or Oblivion toolset, or Hero engine type which is used to make Star Wars The Old Republic MMO.

 

[tobi]

Do people really play full 12 minute quarters on NBA 2K? If you play a full season, do you have time to do anything else at all?

Yes, on average my matches last about an hour, even longer if it goes to overtime.

@ Zee, the team variation and player individuality in NBA 2K is even better than PES and that's without touching the sliders. The player individuality in particular is just insane.

Of course it would be difficult for 2K to get involved but there are so many aspects of NBA 2K that Konami can learn from and implement into PES that would take the game to another level. And i'm not talking about animations, that's there for all to see.

 

[Lyvean]

If they can get even a single licence, otherways it would be football without real teams, real stadiums etc

Pretty much like PES then, right?

 

[Northzzz]

I'm probably going to get criticized again for stating this, if someone says i'm being biased, i think I'll just leave you all to it to be honest.

You're right. I think people who say 2k should make a game are far too idealistic and as you rightly pointed out forget that their other games are pretty forgettable. Especially in the case of their baseball game because MLB:The Show is much better.

Not to mention that i just don't see it being profitable at all in the short term to challenge EA and Konami, who we shouldn't forget already have built up fanbases which guarantee sales (though i have to acknowledge that i see EA's dominance as the only factor here. PES has a fanbase but it's quite obvious that over the years it has been willing to jump ship. I don't see a good majority of Fifa's fanbase doing the same). It just doesn't seem viable at all for another company to step in unless they want to take a few years of low sales whilst building up their reputation. Obviously that's not going to happen with any big companies because they will have to spend a lot (sports games generally are expensive) and want to make a decent amount of profit like any company is going to want to. After all how many sports have more than 2 companies making games for that particular sport? To me the only thing that can possibly happen from here that may in some way benefit the consumer is if we get an indie title, a game that doesn't spend much, to come in and put out a football game. I don't know whether that's going to happen because in all probability it's surely damn hard to make sports games.




Not really relating to your point now but people, well a couple on this page, also underplay the fact that a sports games that deals with 10 players (Basketball) is going to allow more resources for the AI and other game areas than one that features 22 players (Football). Consoles are being pushed to their limits as far as i'm concerned with football games and cpu intensive procedures like programming AI for 22 players means you have to cut things out. PES seems like a pretty AI intensive game and quite frankly i don't feel that it is any suprise that the Xbox and Ps3 versions of PES feel like they're being stretched to the limit when i play them in comparison to my more powerful PC. Personally i feel that people don't realise that consoles made with tech from 5 or 6 years ago aren't exactly easy to deal with when you want to add more than you possibly can. I'd feel bad for Konami for having limitations like this but i don't. I don't think their engine is all that good and it's obvious that over the years they haven't made too much progress with it graphically (animations etc). If they wanted to, and if they could, then they could stop cutting corners for the PC version no doubt about it. That's when i have to question whether they have tech limitations or they just don't have the desire to do things better or whether it's an issue with their engine etc etc etc.

I'm not a console hater or a graphics whore, in fact i generally prefer console games because of variety, but i think it's fairly evident that when it comes to sports games, being as i have purported AI intensive, that game is only going to truly evolve when you are able to allow more room for processing. This is why i find it so frustrating that both EA and Konami seem happy enough to just put out console ports for their PC versions. It's like putting the engine of an Audi TT into the body of a Bugatti Veyron. AI is the most important thing in a football game and i'm glad Konami seem to have spent the whole year working on that but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anybody who doesn't think that all of PES 2012's emphasis went into AI at the expense of other interesting factors that generally would make the game more like a representation of football (i.e improving the engine to feature better collisions, animations, complete audio overhaul, atmosphere, rebuilding the stamina system, realistic and not arbitrary injuries, improving the ref's intelligence when handing out cards, weather effects etc). I don't truly think we'll see any evolving until the next console cycle. People often say that Konami is 'one step forward to steps back' and taking things out of the game constantly without really thinking why that might be. There's my conclusion.

 

[pes2012gonbegood]

Are there any good gameplay video's out from the game post-patch? I'm interested to see the "more weighty" players. Full game not out in Australia so please take this comment with a pinch of salt, but something is irking me about the demo.

I did not notice any difference in players feeling more "weighty" after the patch.

 

[Han]

Most who criticze the game here are fairly reasonable IMO. I like the franchise a lot, but it has huge flaws. Pointing these flaws out in a reasonable way is good for the PES-series. Blind positivism is not a good thing.

True, but it would be even better to provide Konami with feedback about your critics. I wonder if Konami reads this forum.

 

[Lyvean]

True, but it would be even better to provide Konami with feedback about your critics. I wonder if Konami reads this forum.

Yeah, because Konami has really listened to our proposals all these years.

There are people in this forum alone that could have seabass fired if they applied for his job (and if there was any sense of justice in this world).