PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Lyvean said:
There are people in this forum alone that could have seabass fired if they applied for his job (and if there was any sense of justice in this world).
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Where is the facepalm smiley?

@Ramaxwy well he does say PES 2 was a highlight of the PES series so... Also he seems to be judging both games the same day they came out?
 
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Isslander said:
Where is the facepalm smiley?

@Ramaxwy well he does say PES 2 was a highlight of the PES series so... Also he seems to be judging both games the same day they came out?
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he also said he doesn't really know a thing about football so maybe he deserves a break:SMUG:
 
wabak said:
How are sliders drastically different? You use them to change the way the AI plays, just like editing the tactics in PES has the same effect. If you didn't have the sliders in FIFA to customize how the AI play against you, would you enjoy the game as much as you do? Hardly a failure is it, these ways to change how the AI play. ;)

You could say the system in PES is better, as you can individually edit the tactics to get the separate AI teams to play a certain way against you (I love how you said in a 'vain attempt' when it has already been proven it makes a massive difference in the way each team plays, as it did in 2011, unlike the custom tactics in FIFA by the way) so I don't get how you can say one game is a failure but not slate the other game for the near enough the same thing.
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I respect your points but you seem to have misunderstood a fair amount that I said.

You don't change the sliders to alter how the AI plays. It affects the whole game across the board. It doesn't alter the tactics the game sets out for the AI, or the way the AI approaches playing against you. All sliders do in FIFA is allow you to tweak certain basic aspects of the game like speed, pass error etc. These changes aren't contextual to certain player or teams, but occur across the board. People don't use them to make the AI play in different ways in general, because any changes that you'd make would be very basic and still make every team do the same thing. They use them in the same way that you or I would choose the speed setting in PES from 0 to +2 or -2. It's the same basic tweak to gameplay. It does it very effectively, allowing people to tweak it according to their own taste, but the core game underneath, and the way the AI plays isn't directly affected. Changing sliders also offer half a dozen or so options, all changeable in-game, and take seconds to do. So that's the difference between using sliders to alter a game and spending hours upon hours ploughing through each team in the edit section altering gameplay stats.

I agree that it's great people have the facility in FIFA and PES to change the way AI teams can play, to alter their tactics. I never said that wasn't a good thing. I just said that if customers buying a game have to do game companies' jobs for them by altering, say, Barcelona's settings to make them play more realistically according to how they do in real life, then yeah the customer is doing the game developer's job for them. And these people shouldn't have to do it if they're already spending £40 on a game. I'm actually defending the good people who spend their time changing the tactics in-game. They paid their money on the product, and shouldn't have to be doing something that EA and Konami should have done in the first place.

Neither did I argue that PES is a failure and FIFA a success on that front. I don't know where you got that opinion because I never hinted at that. I was talking about both developers in the very specific area of creating realistic AI tactics to reflect the real teams. I think both FIFA and PES are fantastic this year, with both titles being the best ever for their respective franchise.

I also said people change tactics 'in a vain attempt' not as you imply, I'm sure people's alterations to the game are extremely effective and make a huge difference for plenty to enjoy. I actually meant it's a 'vain attempt' in terms of making the game realistic when the companies making the games seem determined to offer a less realistic version of the game.

Again, in terms of creating believable AI teams that mimick their real life playing styles, then yeah, Konami and EA are both failing if their customers need to spend their time editing the game to make it play better. That's the job of the game companies, not the customer. It's great that people can do it, and take the time to share it with others, I'm not disputing that. I was merely saying that game companies should be doing this to the point that the paying customer doesn't need to alter the game themselves.

I really don't get where you think I'm bigging up FIFA over PES on that issue.
 
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Isslander said:
I was actually quite disturbed to witness Messis death there.
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Impact engine has been improved massively in the final version. You will still see the odd player falling over here and there but not like in the demo. It more just adds weight to players. And the odd collision that you do see is more funny than it is annoying. It certainly doesn't effect the gameplay.

Saying that if you filmed it for hours on end looking for flaws like some peole do im sure you will see more than I have
 
zeemeister said:
Yeah klashman I agree 100 % the more football games the better. If only "this is football" had stuck around who knows what could have transpired. My problem is people assume that 2K would blow everything out of the water.

I own NBA2k11, top spin 4 and MLB11 it has to be said that those games aesthetically are very impressive and elements like NBAs mo cap and stamina system are marvellous but basketball is an entirely different ball game so to speak you could not take the elements and dump them in a football game and expect the same result.

The team variation and player individuality is not very good either and the database of players and teams are significantly less compared to PES and FIFA.
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the player individuality is not that good in nba 2k? what the hell game are you playing??!?!?!? IT IS THE BEST EVER IN ANY SPORTS TITLE
 
Wilkmyster said:
You could always ask people in the fifa forum?
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i know but i thought chances of them telling the truth would be slim and since we don't share the same taste i wouldn't know if they'd understand my concerns.
biggest problem though, i don't have a link so if you would be so kind i might still ask them.
 
LTFC said:
I respect your points but you seem to have misunderstood a fair amount that I said.

You don't change the sliders to alter how the AI plays. It affects the whole game across the board. It doesn't alter the tactics the game sets out for the AI, or the way the AI approaches playing against you. All sliders do in FIFA is allow you to tweak certain basic aspects of the game like speed, pass error etc. These changes aren't contextual to certain player or teams, but occur across the board. People don't use them to make the AI play in different ways in general, because any changes that you'd make would be very basic and still make every team do the same thing. They use them in the same way that you or I would choose the speed setting in PES from 0 to +2 or -2. It's the same basic tweak to gameplay. It does it very effectively, allowing people to tweak it according to their own taste, but the core game underneath, and the way the AI plays isn't directly affected. Changing sliders also offer half a dozen or so options, all changeable in-game, and take seconds to do. So that's the difference between using sliders to alter a game and spending hours upon hours ploughing through each team in the edit section altering gameplay stats.

I agree that it's great people have the facility in FIFA and PES to change the way AI teams can play, to alter their tactics. I never said that wasn't a good thing. I just said that if customers buying a game have to do game companies' jobs for them by altering, say, Barcelona's settings to make them play more realistically according to how they do in real life, then yeah the customer is doing the game developer's job for them. And these people shouldn't have to do it if they're already spending £40 on a game. I'm actually defending the good people who spend their time changing the tactics in-game. They paid their money on the product, and shouldn't have to be doing something that EA and Konami should have done in the first place.

Neither did I argue that PES is a failure and FIFA a success on that front. I don't know where you got that opinion because I never hinted at that. I was talking about both developers in the very specific area of creating realistic AI tactics to reflect the real teams. I think both FIFA and PES are fantastic this year, with both titles being the best ever for their respective franchise.

I also said people change tactics 'in a vain attempt' not as you imply, I'm sure people's alterations to the game are extremely effective and make a huge difference for plenty to enjoy. I actually meant it's a 'vain attempt' in terms of making the game realistic when the companies making the games seem determined to offer a less realistic version of the game.

Again, in terms of creating believable AI teams that mimick their real life playing styles, then yeah, Konami and EA are both failing if their customers need to spend their time editing the game to make it play better. That's the job of the game companies, not the customer. It's great that people can do it, and take the time to share it with others, I'm not disputing that. I was merely saying that game companies should be doing this to the point that the paying customer doesn't need to alter the game themselves.

I really don't get where you think I'm bigging up FIFA over PES on that issue.
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After reading that, I definitely misjudged your original post that I quoted, lol.

Not much else to say as I don't disagree with anything you've said.
RAMAXWY said:
i know but i thought chances of them telling the truth would be slim and since we don't share the same taste i wouldn't know if they'd understand my concerns.
biggest problem though, i don't have a link so if you would be so kind i might still ask them.
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The respected members on here that prefer FIFA over PES wouldn't lie about shite like that, I don't think Ive seen it once. You can ask them and you'll get their truthful opinion... not some bullshit to big up the game. (altho these people do exist, on both sides lol)

To answer your original question tho, yeah it's vastly improved but still has some issues, biggest one Ive seen was Hernandez's head getting stuck inside Rooneys chest lmao, they just stood in the middle of the field shaking. Must be love.

The FIFA forum on here is right under the PES sections, you cant miss it.
 
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gomito#10 said:
the player individuality is not that good in nba 2k? what the hell game are you playing??!?!?!? IT IS THE BEST EVER IN ANY SPORTS TITLE
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Its like not even close either

Player individuality scale :


O-----------------------O--------------------------------------------------------O
Worst ever______ 2nd best game _____________________________ nba 2k
 
RAMAXWY said:
i know but i thought chances of them telling the truth would be slim and since we don't share the same taste i wouldn't know if they'd understand my concerns.
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Come on, don't be ridiculous. We're all one big family around here which shares the love and passion for football. We all started as PES lovers once, so why would users who prefer FIFA now lie to you?

To answer your question in here: Yes, they toned down the Impact Engine in the final version. There are still some minor quirks here and there, but overall it's working pretty damn good if you'd ask me.

Still, please make use of the FIFA section next time, this really doesn't belong in here.
 
Tom said:
Come on, don't be ridiculous. We're all one big family around here which shares the love and passion for football. We all started as PES lovers once, so why would users who prefer FIFA now lie to you?

To answer your question in here: Yes, they toned down the Impact Engine in the final version. There are still some minor quirks here and there, but overall it's working pretty damn good if you'd ask me.

Still, please make use of the FIFA section next time, this really doesn't belong in here.
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thanks for the reply and will do in the future.
 
sedax said:
i guess i cant explain what i m saying.Number of teams doesn't matter.They may be 400 teams in PES but with current system it wouldn't represent their styles properly.There are a few options to determine a teams play.Long ball, counter attack doesnt cut it..
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Those are the very, very basic strategies, the default Konami ones with limited space for change, they all offer different ways for the CPU to play but that is simply the tip of the iceberg. it's about using the 'standard' and moving the sliders to present endless methods of attacking.

You say there is and you play the game, i don't feel it and i didn't buy these games.But i won't go complaining all over the place.That' not my point.I just want a better game in near future so i try to think a way to reach that.FIFA sliders are not an issue here they failed in NBA games too so they are poor example but
In 2k you have 47-48 sliders for general gameplay with each slider have 100 options,
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Tactical sliders and core global gameplay are two totally different things all together.

also you have a lot of tendencies for each player and add playbooks to them.
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Same with PES 2012??? with player traits.

Also much more options to players' each move. I say 2K can make a better game because that system seems to be better way to create indivuality and simulation.
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PEW 2012 does this also. I mean PES's issues are mainly animations at times could be better and mostly it's really down to the aesthetic presentation. In game NBA 2k has truly outstanding gameplay and atmosphere. PES just has outstanding gameplay only. Atmosphere and sound is really quite poor and flat.

2K Sports need to find talented programmers who understand football to a deep level and know how to translate their knowledge and depth into the game. Your making it sound as if it's simple. When it's fucking hard, it's going to take them years and ears to just get up to the current standard.
 
Can anyone confirm whether you can edit the managers ingame or not? They seem to be a bigger part of the graphics these days it'd be good to rustle up a Warnock.

Can't believe some of you lucky ducks have got the game already!
 
Why on earth do my defenders insist on rushing towards the keeper when he's going to collect the easiest of balls? This has resulted in handful of own goals and or unnecessary mayhem in the box. This also happens when I try to head the ball back to the keeper, they decide to run back and block it. It's really getting on my tits.

It happened to me yet again just moments ago. The opposition over hit a long ball, should have been a routine save from my keeper yet, my defender ran towards the ball (in his own box), had it hit him on the top of head and the ball looped over into my goal. Fantastic.

I noticed it in the demo's and would have hoped it was fixed for the retail version.
 
priskinsprick said:
Can anyone confirm whether you can edit the managers ingame or not? They seem to be a bigger part of the graphics these days it'd be good to rustle up a Warnock.

Can't believe some of you lucky ducks have got the game already!
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When you start a ML or so you make your own manager ( his face, name etc.. ) however when you are ingame during a match the managers are still the default ones with default faces not the one you made.
 
brs92 said:
Fenerbahce shirts false & bad.Please make update with the next dlc


these are the official kits

GK
http://magaza.fenerium.com.tr/images/products/00/87/97/8797_buyuk_zoom.jpg
http://magaza.fenerium.com.tr/images/products/00/87/97/8797_buyuk_1_zoom.jpg
http://www.fenerbahce.org/pic_lib/2011-07-14_yeni3.jpg
http://magaza.fenerium.com.tr/images/products/00/88/34/8834_buyuk_zoom.jpg
http://magaza.fenerium.com.tr/images/products/00/89/23/8923_buyuk_zoom.jpg

Home
http://magaza.fenerium.com.tr/images/products/00/87/93/8793_buyuk_zoom.jpg
http://magaza.fenerium.com.tr/images/products/00/87/93/8793_buyuk_1_zoom.jpg
http://www.fenerbahce.org/pic_lib/2011-07-14_yeni4.jpg
http://magaza.fenerium.com.tr/images/products/00/88/01/8801_buyuk_zoom.jpg
http://magaza.fenerium.com.tr/images/products/00/89/18/8918_buyuk_zoom.jpg


Away

http://magaza.fenerium.com.tr/images/products/00/87/94/8794_buyuk_zoom.jpg
http://magaza.fenerium.com.tr/images/products/00/87/94/8794_buyuk_1_zoom.jpg
http://www.fenerbahce.org/pic_lib/2011-07-14_yeni1.jpg
http://magaza.fenerium.com.tr/images/products/00/88/30/8830_buyuk_zoom.jpg
http://magaza.fenerium.com.tr/images/products/00/89/20/8920_buyuk_zoom.jpg


fonts&numbers positions here

http://www.antu.com/FotoGaleri/Fenerbahce_-_I.B.B_STSL_5.Hafta/antu_01_10_2011_22.JPG
http://www.antu.com/FotoGaleri/Fenerbahce_-_I.B.B_STSL_5.Hafta/antu_01_10_2011_18.JPG
http://www.antu.com/FotoGaleri/Kayserispor_-_Fenerbahce_STSL_4.Hafta/antu_23_09_2011_33.jpg


http://magaza.fenerium.com.tr/catinfo.asp?cid=824
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+1
 
Just had my first few games of human vs human against my bro and i must say i don't think i've enjoyed pes this much since the ps2 days. We play lazio vs juventus and the individuality, creativity, buildup game, passing and finishing is unbelieveable.

Inbetween games which switched to fifa12 and were actually shocked at how bad it is. My bro loves fifa and he actually wanted to turn fifa off. He said it felt weightless, like ice hockey, everyone felt the same and it just seemed so blah lol

Im not one whom gets into fifa vs pes arguements but i honestly do think fifa is really poor, the player mechanics feel so 'lifeless' and does feel like your skating. I am a games programmer and am actually in the process of coding a character control system which is very advanced so know the difficulty behind it and how complex it can be. Fifa seems actually quite simple to achieve ie the dribbling, weightless feel, fast weightless turning etc whereas what pes does is magic.

Heres a link to my youtube videos with some early videos of my character system(well one of them) just to show im not talking rubbish lol

YouTube - 3d platformer_engine_demo_mario&luigi05_unity3d
YouTube - 3d platformer_engine_demo_mario&luigi04_unity3d
YouTube - 3d platformer_engine_demo_mario&luigi03_unity3d
YouTube - 3d platformer_engine_demo_mario&luigi02_unity3d
 
zeemeister said:
Is it just me or does the sound in Football kingdom still kick bum. Even the thud of the ball sounds awesome
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yeah and the ball physics look better too i think, but they really matched the player animations in this years effort by the looks of things.
 
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