PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

[RAMAXWY]

i really understand why i keep visiting forums like these less and less.
i really started enjoying PES games less then i did before.
all the complaining about a game that is still the best at what it does which is simulating the sport we all love so much.
instead of enjoying the game you start looking for all these mistakes and defects everyone else is noticing.

no wonder KONAMI doesn't really know how to please everyone and FIFA keeps it simple: just tell them IT'S IN THE GAME and they'll believe it even if we produce the same shit every year with a few minor tweaks here and there.
this is why i don't really trust reviews and scores from gaming websites.

your mindset is what is key when judging a game i think.

what do you like, what do you expect.

if you just plain love and play football i think PES is your game, because it makes you play this game like the sport is meant to be played which no other football game has ever done.
when Wenger said Messi plays just like PLAYSTATION i don't think he had another game then PES in mind.

if you need the atmosphere, commentating,jerseys,big names and faces to bring the sport to life then FIFA is your game.

i honestly think its that simple.

 

[hitmanuk]

i really understand why i keep visiting forums like these less and less.
i really started enjoying PES games less then i did before.
all the complaining about a game that is still the best at what it does which is simulating the sport we all love so much.
instead of enjoying the game you start looking for all these mistakes and defects everyone else is noticing.

no wonder KONAMI doesn't really know how to please everyone and FIFA keeps it simple: just tell them IT'S IN THE GAME and they'll believe it even if we produce the same shit every year with a few minor tweaks here and there.
this is why i don't really trust reviews and scores from gaming websites.

your mindset is what is key when judging a game i think.

what do you like, what do you expect.

if you just plain love and play football i think PES is your game, because it makes you play this game like the sport is meant to be played which no other football game has ever done.
when Wenger said Messi plays just like PLAYSTATION i don't think he had another game then PES in mind.

if you need the atmosphere, commentating,jerseys,big names and faces to bring the sport to life then FIFA is your game.

i honestly think its that simple.

Got to be careful what I say here as you can get banned but I disagree , respectfully of course. I think EA innovates and tries new things each year to give you a gaming experience where as PES for me, more so this year tries to reapply FIFAs gameplay, badly. I've followed ISS and PES since around 1999 maybe a little earlier and it simply went backward after 2008 or maybe it didnt progress as much as FIFA. There is definitely individuality in FIFA this year. Online is superb 1v1 on full manual. Sliders have made the game more customizable etc etc.

If FIFA continues to improve this much year on year PES will become a dead franchise. Sad but true

 

[gomito#10]

Got to be careful what I say here as you can get banned but I disagree , respectfully of course. I think EA innovates and tries new things each year to give you a gaming experience where as PES for me, more so this year tries to reapply FIFAs gameplay, badly. I've followed ISS and PES since around 1999 maybe a little earlier and it simply went backward after 2008 or maybe it didnt progress as much as FIFA. There is definitely individuality in FIFA this year. Online is superb 1v1 on full manual. Sliders have made the game more customizable etc etc.

If FIFA continues to improve this much year on year PES will become a dead franchise. Sad but true

dude thats ridiculous, pes a dead franchise? cmon man

 

[RAMAXWY]

Got to be careful what I say here as you can get banned but I disagree , respectfully of course. I think EA innovates and tries new things each year to give you a gaming experience where as PES for me, more so this year tries to reapply FIFAs gameplay, badly. I've followed ISS and PES since around 1999 maybe a little earlier and it simply went backward after 2008 or maybe it didnt progress as much as FIFA. There is definitely individuality in FIFA this year. Online is superb 1v1 on full manual. Sliders have made the game more customizable etc etc.

If FIFA continues to improve this much year on year PES will become a dead franchise. Sad but true

football is a very simple game if you can get the fundamentals and physics right and PES has done that for a long time now.
with a few hick ups here and there.
trying new things each year proves my point about FIFA they just try things out and if they are a hit with the fans it stays in if not its removed.
online they are dominating i know but the feature fully manual doesn't really help my opinion of the game cause it is supposed to be a simulation were the stats and tactics should matter.
who you choose and the team you play against should have a certain impact and not just your experience.
PES on the other hand is trying to give you a realistic feel when playing the game with different difficulties depending on the teams,players and situations which is what football is all about.

 

[curdstar]

Think the difficulty has been upped slightly since the patch, bottom of the league with 2 points from 7 games but got a last minute point at home to Man City after I literally bullied them with aerial balls in the second half.

You can pick at it's faults all day but for me this is giving the most satisfaction, annoyance and swear jar filling experience in 5 years on next gen consoles.

Totally agree.

 

[Lami]

Honestly, I haven't had this "one more game" feeling strongly since the PS2 days and slightly since 2010.

I'm frigging addicted and I'm supposed to be starting a full-time 4 month Microsoft course tomorrow

 

[sir_poc]

Haven't played my PS3 for about 9 months now, for various reasons. Played both PES 12 and FIFA 12 for the last few days, and PES is the only one to give me that 'wow' feeling. It keeps me coming back for one more game etc, whereas I've been enjoying FIFA manual games to an extent, I can only play 2-3 games back to back then I need a break.

PES just keeps me coming back, for one more, time and time again. Damn, some long nights, and lack of sleep ahead.

It's all about representing good Football, and more importantly, having fun. PES 12 wins out on that for me this year.

 

[klashman69]

I strongly agree with a post of drekkard in the FIFA thread: although FIFA is a much more finished game, PES plays like real football. But in that same post Drekkard also says that PES is a game that is broken, that has many shortcomings.

I also think that PES desperately needs sliders, just like NBA2K (which is by far the best sports game available). With those sliders you can make a game that is a simulation but than can also be played by players like me who are not good at games but who still prefer a simulation over arcade (in football, because one of the best games ever -SSX- is pure arcade).

I didn't object to sliders, i don't mind them, but don't think PES desperatley needs them.

And then there is another point. You attack the poster (i can't remember his name exactly) because he says that all teams play similar. He is right. You say that he don't gets what PES is about because all the teams have exactly the same tactical settings. I think YOU don't get it. This is another fine example of Konami's extreme sloppyness. If i buy a game in a shop, then it is supposed to be finished. You imply that we should take the time to edit all these teams in order to have them play as realistic as possible. That is so wrong. Konami should do that. And either they haven't bothered or they have tried it and utterly failed. At the end it doesn't matter what happened, we have a right to a finished product with individuality in the game...that is the core of the product PES. That is exactly the reason why i still prefer PES to FIFA.

Yes, this post has been a gigantic misunderstanding. Most if not all of what you say has been assumption from what i can see. PES2012gbg said rightly most of the teams play the same way, he's also right that the game isn't finished. Thing is i've mentioned this also in my reply to him and in previous posts that there are bugs and the database is so, so poor it's quite embarrasing really. So i don't understand why you call me biased simply because i'm 'arguing' against him in your perception. The only faint excuse i have for Konami and it's really just a poor excuse is that in the ps2 era the game was usually released in late october so i would not of needed a patch.

So, no i was not trying to defend Konami's incompetence.

To understand a bit more what i was getting at. PES2012gbg also said that there was impossible to change CPU team tactics to get them to play differently, he said it was not possible in either PES 2011 even to do it, yet i'd done all that work changing them and provided evidance? The database is terrible, truly terrible but even with the new DLC and even if this DLC was released with the disk, Konami wouldn't have set up every single team perfectly to how they play in real life.

You can't be an expert on 3-4 different leagues and know in great detail how they all play. I tell that to others in my thread. I watch Bundersliga, Premier league and some portugesee liga and others but i can't give you perfect detail how Willem II play. Thing is the good parts to the game just lik all the great games outweigh the bad, up until PES 2011 it's been the same story with tactics for every football game, PES, FIFA TIF etc.. every game. Most teams by default have the same tactics. Even when set up genericly at the moment, teams still play differently because of the great player individuallity.

He didn't know this as he wasan't playing the game, he was conducting lobsided CPU vs CPU experiments and so on.

I think it's very unappropriate to criticize the poster for that very balanced and constructive post.

I think it was essential that i did, since he was spouting a few lies and they guys ego needed to be cooled down. I mean you cannot give the guy a merit badge for saying things like 'PES commentary is rubbish, PES animations are terrible'. Especially regarding commentary, this is something everyone has requested for years and years. I said before on animations, they are not perfect, but they are good. I'm not saying they can't be imporved, i mean i even made a post about what i added in but the incesent moaning he has been showing was not on, i'm sorry, it's over the top and attention seeking.

I honestly think you are as much biased as you claim he is. His post was actually a very good post. I don't agree with everything he says but there are some very good points in his post.

No, it wasan't a great post sorry, much of the stuff had been mentioned already, some of it about the team individuallity being impossible to change was lies, it really was moaning for the sake of it.

That was not good negativity, i know good negativity and constructive points when i see it.

 

[klashman69]

Klashman69, Barça don't do counter-attacks to finalize... if barça have the chance to do a counter, the team do it to lead the ball to the opponent field and pass it back to win field and approach the defense with the attack to play its traditional inteligent passing style. I don't remember Barcelona playing an "Italian's counter-attack style" (very characteristical of Pes2012's AI) since Guardiola's era. When i think to introduce this barça's characteristical move, i feel worry, cause Pes2012's AI is notorious made to be objective, that is, to score more goals that is possible instead of maintain the ball possession. Then, i don't know how i can manage the team's tactic to do things like this in "Pes2012's pragmatic AI".

Oh, sorry i din't mean counter in the Italian style, sitting back, defeding tighly then countering, i meant they form quick turnover counters from pressuring and exploiting the other team trying to take them on

 

[klashman69]

Things I don't understand that have happened in last 2 matches:

1. Running with my AMF, CF is with last defender. I try a through ball, every time my CF pulls up, and looks around confused as the ball trickles into the space where he should be running.

2. One of my centre backs runs to wide open spaces towards the wings, leaving a huge gap in the middle. It's like the CPU forward has a 5 metre circle drawn around them, which my teammates will move out of so the nice through ball can be played to them.

3. I hit a pass to a teammate with the bar 3/4 full, it goes 1 inch. I hit another pass to a teammate with the bal 3/4 full, it flies out of bounds. This is on 1 pass assist.

4. I hit a cross to a wide open striker, easy headed goal. But, despite standing on the X, and hitting shoot as the ball comes in, the striker completely flops and misses. Alternatively, they try a super speedy bicycle kick.


It saddens me, but despite all the games promise, and good points, it is fundamentally flawed to the point where I just don't enjoy it. I'd say 1 in every 4 goals the CPU scores against me are geninely good, and I applaud them. The other 3 are me unable to player switch in time, the unstoppable cross or a free kick.

Yes, I realise against other humans its fun, but for a 1 player experience, it's another year of not playing football for me. That's 3 years in a row now. Why are Konami and EA so unable to make something decent for single player football fans?

1. is a good point. Unless you have a top striker, the CF tends to get bullied too much by the center back or dosen't react well to through balls really.

2. Think it's more about you getting used ot defending and making sure you don't move your center backs accidently, this was happening to me until i noticed how crap their positiong was because of me pressing secound press.


3. and 4 are good, it dosen't happen to me but i can see where your coming from

 

[wabak]

Got to be careful what I say here as you can get banned but I disagree , respectfully of course.

People get banned for trolling I believe, or consistently posting nonsense... not for stating their opinions.

I think EA innovates and tries new things each year to give you a gaming experience where as PES for me, more so this year tries to reapply FIFAs gameplay, badly.

Are you being serious? So all the new advancements in AI for PES 2012 (just one example of the new things in PES 2012 this year) is them copying FIFA and failing? Nah, You can't be serious...

I've followed ISS and PES since around 1999 maybe a little earlier and it simply went backward after 2008 or maybe it didnt progress as much as FIFA.

I agree, it went downhill in 2008 but from PES 10 till 12 it's only been up.

FIFA 10? Disaster.
FIFA 11? Not as much of a disater, but still poor.
FIFA 12? Finally a step in the right direction, combine it with the sliders and you can get a great game of football.

There is definitely individuality in FIFA this year.

Agreed, much more than any games previous (maybe not 08 but I can't remember)

More than PES 12? Down to personal opinion.

Online is superb 1v1 on full manual.

PES is also superb online, depends who you play against with both games.

If FIFA continues to improve this much year on year PES will become a dead franchise. Sad but true

Just nonsense, if both games keep improving we will all benefit.

 

[tobi]

The game sponsors today's Football Weekly podcast, nice PR.

 

[jflores]

I agree with you. I wonder why so few people ( only me ) react on your post. Are here so few Xbox-users?
I have the French/German version and it is very annoying to play with the second controller all the time.
Apart from that, there is also a problem with selection of the language.
It always uses French in stead of German ( which I understand better) at start-up, dispite saving ( exporting ) the profile-data.

My guess is the same. Perhaps many PS3 users. A few of my friends in my area have the 360 version and are also waiting for a fix.

C'MON KONAMI...

 

[Sabac Red]

I think I am going to have to get into basket ball because like you neither PES or FIFA are what I want in a football game in 2011. We need a third contentender, if the media wernt paid to hype FIFA up as being "footballing perfection" or whatever it is they are saying then maybe we would get one. The guys that make this highly praised NBA 2K game need to get on the forums and see that lots of people are unhappy with the football games we have and then go and make one. I guess licensing would be a big issue though. Maybe someone needs to do a Minecraft, make a indy game with terrible graphics that plays amazingly well. I would play a football game with PS1 graphics if it played well enough.

Would love for 2k or even namco to make a football game for this gen. tbh on licensing they should just go down the legends route give us the legendary national and club teams from the past century or so, sorted. Graphically they could try and be creative doesn't have to be state of the art

 

[jflores]

Would love for 2k or even namco to make a football game for this gen. tbh on licensing they should just go down the legends route give us the legendary national and club teams from the past century or so, sorted. Graphically they could try and be creative doesn't have to be state of the art

I am waiting on 2K sports to make a futbol sim. I'm curious to see how well they would do. Let's get one thing straight though, Konami's gameplay sim is so advanced, that for anyone to start from "0", would take years to advance to match Konami's product. I for one don't have enough years left in my life to wait around that long.

 

[RAMAXWY]

Honestly, I haven't had this "one more game" feeling strongly since the PS2 days and slightly since 2010.

I'm frigging addicted and I'm supposed to be starting a full-time 4 month Microsoft course tomorrow

that's good to hear.
i'm still enjoying the demo while i wait for my copy.
decided to buy the us version this year so hopefully i can find a decent option file.

 

[RAMAXWY]

I am waiting on 2K sports to make a futbol sim. I'm curious to see how well they would do. Let's get one thing straight though, Konami's gameplay sim is so advanced, that for anyone to start from "0", would take years to advance to match Konami's product. I for one don't have enough years left in my life to wait around that long.

fully agree.

 

[Ameppe]

I agree on one point gerd makes about the need for Konami's customers having to edit teams themselves to get them to play differently. It's a major annoyance of mine. Fair play to those who want to take the time and improve their game by doing so, but I frankly don't have the time or inclination to spend £40 on a product and then spend a massive amount of time going through every team and editing them to change the gamelay.

If the customer needs to spend time altering the teams to change the fundamentals of a game, then the game has largely failed. Sliders, I would argue, are different, they are there to deliberately allow the user the opportunity to alter the way the game plays relatively quickly. Meticulously going through every team's core stats and altering them in a vain attempt at improving the AI, on the other hand, is a failure on behalf of the company making the game.

oh really? Did you read there is a whole topic in fifa section to make Fifa playable against AI teams?
That is the final purpose, so it's obvious to say that EA failed making the game

 

[wabak]

I agree on one point gerd makes about the need for Konami's customers having to edit teams themselves to get them to play differently. It's a major annoyance of mine. Fair play to those who want to take the time and improve their game by doing so, but I frankly don't have the time or inclination to spend £40 on a product and then spend a massive amount of time going through every team and editing them to change the gamelay.

If the customer needs to spend time altering the teams to change the fundamentals of a game, then the game has largely failed. Sliders, I would argue, are different, they are there to deliberately allow the user the opportunity to alter the way the game plays relatively quickly. Meticulously going through every team's core stats and altering them in a vain attempt at improving the AI, on the other hand, is a failure on behalf of the company making the game.

How are sliders drastically different? You use them to change the way the AI plays, just like editing the tactics in PES has the same effect. If you didn't have the sliders in FIFA to customize how the AI play against you, would you enjoy the game as much as you do? Hardly a failure is it, these ways to change how the AI play.

You could say the system in PES is better, as you can individually edit the tactics to get the separate AI teams to play a certain way against you (I love how you said in a 'vain attempt' when it has already been proven it makes a massive difference in the way each team plays, as it did in 2011, unlike the custom tactics in FIFA by the way) so I don't get how you can say one game is a failure but not slate the other game for the near enough the same thing.

Then again they are different in that you can't edit passing accuracy etc and the other things like you can in FIFA with the sliders, but they both do the same thing (making the AI play differently) just in different ways.

The wonderful thing here is, the vast majority don't have to do it as the GODSENDS/ANGELS/GODS (the community) do it all for us, and all we have to do is download a file and transfer it over. My god what a colossal hassle that is.

In my mind, the more power we have to shape the football game we want, the better.

 

[beachryan]

I agree that fixing the tactics will make a HUGE difference to single player PES - particularly in ML which is what most of us play it for.

But it won't fix some of the broken game mechanics. And there are days when I just can't take them.

 

[makky]

i really understand why i keep visiting forums like these less and less.
i really started enjoying PES games less then i did before.
all the complaining about a game that is still the best at what it does which is simulating the sport we all love so much.
instead of enjoying the game you start looking for all these mistakes and defects everyone else is noticing.

no wonder KONAMI doesn't really know how to please everyone and FIFA keeps it simple: just tell them IT'S IN THE GAME and they'll believe it even if we produce the same shit every year with a few minor tweaks here and there.
this is why i don't really trust reviews and scores from gaming websites.

your mindset is what is key when judging a game i think.

what do you like, what do you expect.

if you just plain love and play football i think PES is your game, because it makes you play this game like the sport is meant to be played which no other football game has ever done.
when Wenger said Messi plays just like PLAYSTATION i don't think he had another game then PES in mind.

if you need the atmosphere, commentating,jerseys,big names and faces to bring the sport to life then FIFA is your game.

i honestly think its that simple.

Really like this honest post. PES all day for me. I enjoy it and i know i'm going to keep on enjoying it.
The diversity of opinions on the product is, in my opinion justified. Not everybody is going to say they love it because it wouldn't be true. Konami need to keep on listening to this forum in order to achieve football excellence within the game. Surely people care enough and want to make this happen that's why comments differentiate vastly between positive and negative.

 

[makky]

Honestly, I haven't had this "one more game" feeling strongly since the PS2 days and slightly since 2010.

I'm frigging addicted and I'm supposed to be starting a full-time 4 month Microsoft course tomorrow

Hope i feel like this about the game, although i'm sure i will. Liking the positive comments you have made so far.

 

[gerd]

Most who criticze the game here are fairly reasonable IMO. I like the franchise a lot, but it has huge flaws. Pointing these flaws out in a reasonable way is good for the PES-series. Blind positivism is not a good thing.

 

[wabak]

Most who criticze the game her.e are fairly reasonable IMO. I like the franchise a lot, but it has huge flaws. Pointing these flaws out in a reasonable way is good for the PES-series. Blind positivism is not a good thing.

Agreed completely.

 

[makky]

Most who criticze the game here are fairly reasonable IMO. I like the franchise a lot, but it has huge flaws. Pointing these flaws out in a reasonable way is good for the PES-series. Blind positivism is not a good thing.

I know and who would want that. Criticism is a good thing. In ten days time i'll have it in my hands. I'll let you know what i think.

 

[theopinion]

So, its been nearly a week now since its been out, can anyone give me a honest opinion on it...ill probably still get it, but i want you to sell it to me using examples of why you think this game is great or why i shouldnt get it.

P.s. I love playing football games realistically, and if its not,I make sure to edit teams and tactics until i get something close to how i expect it to behave - plus I loved demo 1 and demo 2.
Are Goalkeepers acceptable?
If not, can someone pop the game in and edit a goalkeepers stats to 99 and see how he behaves?

In pes 2010 I used to edit nearly all goalkeepers stats to above ~85.
so the worst were at ~85, with the best at 99 (i know, weird thing to do.) and it made the experience much more enjoyable for me.

 

[dandun_tomas]

I think I have now learned to shoot, and no longer I score goals that float or are results of keeper incompetence, yes I can now blast the ball to the corner I want, I must say it feels so good, just like in the old days..

 

[sedax]

I am waiting on 2K sports to make a futbol sim. I'm curious to see how well they would do. Let's get one thing straight though, Konami's gameplay sim is so advanced, that for anyone to start from "0", would take years to advance to match Konami's product. I for one don't have enough years left in my life to wait around that long.

I don't see anything to match here.I'm sure 2K can make a game light years ahead of PES and FIFA in one year.

 

[pes2012gonbegood]

I don't see anything to match here.I'm sure 2K can make a game light years ahead of PES and FIFA in one year.

Im 99% sure they could.

 

[zeemeister]

Haha 2k better not dare try and make a football game. They'll be fucked before they start. The amount of time Konami and EA have put in to bring the respectable games is not just a year.

As for hitmans post-which I can't bring myself to qoute. what a load of garbage. If I only had fifa as a alternative my wife and daughter would see a lot more of me. Fifa innovates in what way? Impact engine? Personality +? Close dribble? Stop talking out your ass bro Haha. They still trying to make an actual football game.