PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Subtly biased??

It's painful how uninsightful such previews are, and how eager they are to mention FIFA's 'holy trinity' (I cannot believe that has caught on) while struggling to spot the changes to PES - despite having played a whole 60 hours!!
 
AlaaEG said:
4- Hardcore gamers. Either specific or general.
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This is gone on way too long. I don't really understand what was so faulty. let's just leave it at that since nobody was being offended. :CONFUSE::CONFUSE:

also Romi, I tell you every time someone previews PES, they mention FIFA more than they actually do PES in the review. With FIFA all they say is positive things, they only mention PES at the end and say how far behind it is.
 
i have mentioned it before, after my YLOD never gonna buy a console again (maybe the wiiu for f-zero, if it comes out). But i am definitely going to buy a good pc that will last 8-10 years. If there is something i have learned is that you can do allot of things with the pc (overclocking etc) that you can't do with a console.

But even with today's technology PES can do much better. CLothes moving and not sticking to their body's is possible, my brother is a gamedesigner and he has confirmed that it is possible on 360 and ps3.

My rants about KONAMI being lazy...i will spare you those. i have made my point in the past. If KONAMI really wants to make something next gen, then they should hire not one person but at least 2 people, cheap ass KONAMI if you ask me.

But on the other side it's not KONAMI it's all those fanboys at WENB who are all screaming it's about AI-and-all-other-things don't-matter-mentality-bullshit.
 
ive a feeling the challenge training will be implemented in bal mode(football life) to improve your created players stats instead of using focus points,it could also be used in master league to get the extra skill cards for the players in your squad
 
goalgerd said:
ive a feeling the challenge training will be implemented in bal mode(football life) to improve your created players stats instead of using focus points,it could also be used in master league to get the extra skill cards for the players in your squad
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that would be amazing! hope they really make it, will be great to practice FK and dribbling to improve our stats!
 
goalgerd said:
ive a feeling the challenge training will be implemented in bal mode(football life) to improve your created players stats instead of using focus points,it could also be used in master league to get the extra skill cards for the players in your squad
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Yeah I mentioned it a while back too. It makes sense because Adam said challenge mode was being used with something else.
 
Enlil said:
i have mentioned it before, after my YLOD never gonna buy a console again (maybe the wiiu for f-zero, if it comes out). But i am definitely going to buy a good pc that will last 8-10 years. If there is something i have learned is that you can do allot of things with the pc (overclocking etc) that you can't do with a console.

But even with today's technology PES can do much better. CLothes moving and not sticking to their body's is possible, my brother is a gamedesigner and he has confirmed that it is possible on 360 and ps3.

My rants about KONAMI being lazy...i will spare you those. i have made my point in the past. If KONAMI really wants to make something next gen, then they should hire not one person but at least 2 people, cheap ass KONAMI if you ask me.

But on the other side it's not KONAMI it's all those fanboys at WENB who are all screaming it's about AI-and-all-other-things don't-matter-mentality-bullshit.
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:LOL: Your pretty much right there. Koanmi will have no excuses whatsoever for not implementing full player bodies which i think is the most important thing!

For player collisions and in general body momentum i don't want football games taking short cuts anymore :) .
 
romagnoli said:
Subtly biased??

It's painful how uninsightful such previews are, and how eager they are to mention FIFA's 'holy trinity' (I cannot believe that has caught on) while struggling to spot the changes to PES - despite having played a whole 60 hours!!
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Yeah you're right, completely biased. There must have been more mentions of Fifa than PES.
 
Isn't a common practice for biased stuff from many media and not just gaming sites ?

I do think that it is mostly konami itself that could make those biased medias look stupid or on the contrary proves them right. lol.

Actually, i am so glad PES 2012 seems to improve their animation aspects. This aspects should have been on their top priorities besides gameplay.

Wait, about gameplay, the definition. while some may look at it more into how ai, tactic/strategies come into play in a football game, many see it as how overall animation works.

Based on reading some forums, it is how fluid, quality, variety of animations in passing, heading, receiving the ball, gk animations etc that they consider highly as gameplay i.e how the game plays. Including collision system, refereeing, etc. I have to admit this is what PES has been lack of.

Let's see another aspects and go back a while to what Murphy says :

"[FIFA] has the atmosphere, the crowds and certain licences we don't - and everybody knows they've got better commentary than us. I can't see that changing. And some of the stuff they're doing with the collisions looks great, depending how it works as you actually play. But if you want pure gameplay, I think we'll smash them this year. We've got so many things going for us, but just the lightness of touch and the way the players move independently is fantastic. You notice it instantly."

He continued:

"You can put the pad down and see your team's movement as individuals. I really hope we can get the demo out to people as soon as possible, because it's all very well me talking about these things - it's when you play it that you see instantly. We don't want everyone, it's not about that - we want the front runners, the opinion formers, the players who tell their friends 'you've got to check out PES this year'. We want to bring them back, and I think we can."

http://www.msxbox-world.com/news/article/15257/konami-pes-2012s-pure-gameplay-will-smash-fifa-12.html

The one that i bold, okay many licenses aside. Crowds, atmosphere, commentaries, collision systems. I believe the front runners, opinion formers, or whatever, would like to see them massively being improved too, yes ? tbh, it sounds to me as an excuse. :RANT:
 
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The bias of CVG is astounding. I find myself disgusted by it - I find myself feeling angry just reading it. It's such lies. Almost every bit of it. It's horribly biased, and it is making a difference to people's choices. Fucking disgusted. I wrote this http://forum.ea.com/uk/posts/list/817694.page about three weeks ago... and the number of things since then which have compounded it amaze me.

The Jon Murphy quotes in the post above have it dot on: they need people to start spreading the word again. Well, all I can say is that, if they provide a deserving game I will happily spread the word.
 
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Rodelero said:
The bias of CVG is astounding. I find myself disgusted by it - I find myself feeling angry just reading it. It's such lies. Almost every bit of it. It's horribly biased, and it is making a difference to people's choices. Fucking disgusted. I wrote this http://forum.ea.com/uk/posts/list/817694.page about three weeks ago... and the number of things since then which have compounded it amaze me.

The Jon Murphy quotes in the post above have it dot on: they need people to start spreading the word again. Well, all I can say is that, if they provide a deserving game I will happily spread the word.
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Its not even an opinion by them though, they are contracted to say it, well at least they were last year.

If you see on OPM for example this year "World Exclusive Review" (goes without saying they are granted first review rights weeks before others) in OPM and them featuring prominently on EA ad campaign you basically know another deal has been agreed, it is mutually beneficial, OPM (and other Future Publishing titles) gives it a great score which will in turn sell magazines which will then sell games, OPM then has its name on stadium electronic adboards with slogans such as "10/10 Footballing Perfection" and also featuring that on actual tv adverts.

Now you think people would have learned that a certain football game last year was not in fact "10/10 Football Perfection" but you know they will want to read that again last year, so they buy the magazine, then the game then the cycle continues.

Keeping my eye on Eurogamer too this year as they are not even reporting barely anything on PES whilst reporting what Rutter has for breakfast.

That last paragraph is a conspiracy theory but what is before it is the truth. :CONFUSE:
 
Jamezinho said:
This applies to me at the moment as I consider my self an avid gamer. I used to be well into my PC gaming but couldn't justify the constant upgrades any longer. If I had more disposable income I would definitely look to get back into it, but I can't see myself doing so any time soon.

Having said that I do love the plug and play element of console gaming, and the fact that every game is (in theory) optimised for the system.
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Sorry for off topic but this I agree with 100% I can't handle that constant maintenance. My PC cost me more than my effin car and causes me more bloody headaches.
 
Sadly we all know how the reviewing will go with the two games. I was just surprised that Edge, in all it's pretentious glory, also conveniently managed to overlook all of FIFA's problems, and then proclaim PES as still being dated. They, along with the majority of the gaming press, most likely played it for a day before rushing the review out. FIFA would instantly play the better in theory, I mean it's taken me ages to figure out the intricacies of PES and it's a vastly better game for that reason. Now that I know what I'm doing, PES feels far superior in gameplay terms. It plays more realistic, is just as hard without being as ludicrously frustrating and 'artificial' feeling, yet the gaming press will have had a day or so, found PES to be frustrating and clunky because they didn't know how to play it, or what controls did what, because you do need to learn these things. So the press will have been largely uninformed when reviewing, and it'll happen this year again. FIFA is instantly playable, but longer term it's no fun to play whatsoever, then there are constant massive bugs in the game's core game modes, which again magazines refuse to ever mention.

I remember in the PS2 days, PES was always vastly better than FIFA in gameplay terms, but FIFA sold more copies off the basis of flashy commentary, licences, music etc. That's still the case, except now the gaming press seem determined to tell the wider world that it stands on it's own as a simulation, which it doesn't. In that respect I'm glad PES' marketing this year seems more focused on promoting the game to those who care about gameplay rather than flashy videos advertising Manchester City's new kit in FIFA12 (can't believe they actually did that). Shows hopefully Konami won't get sucked into making PES like FIFA.
 
I know this is a forum for airing views yet reading through this thread I can't help but want to scream to some of you..... IT'S A GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's better...:BYE:
 
LTFC said:
Sadly we all know how the reviewing will go with the two games. I was just surprised that Edge, in all it's pretentious glory, also conveniently managed to overlook all of FIFA's problems, and then proclaim PES as still being dated. They, along with the majority of the gaming press, most likely played it for a day before rushing the review out. FIFA would instantly play the better in theory, I mean it's taken me ages to figure out the intricacies of PES and it's a vastly better game for that reason. Now that I know what I'm doing, PES feels far superior in gameplay terms. It plays more realistic, is just as hard without being as ludicrously frustrating and 'artificial' feeling, yet the gaming press will have had a day or so, found PES to be frustrating and clunky because they didn't know how to play it, or what controls did what, because you do need to learn these things. So the press will have been largely uninformed when reviewing, and it'll happen this year again. FIFA is instantly playable, but longer term it's no fun to play whatsoever, then there are constant massive bugs in the game's core game modes, which again magazines refuse to ever mention.

I remember in the PS2 days, PES was always vastly better than FIFA in gameplay terms, but FIFA sold more copies off the basis of flashy commentary, licences, music etc. That's still the case, except now the gaming press seem determined to tell the wider world that it stands on it's own as a simulation, which it doesn't. In that respect I'm glad PES' marketing this year seems more focused on promoting the game to those who care about gameplay rather than flashy videos advertising Manchester City's new kit in FIFA12 (can't believe they actually did that). Shows hopefully Konami won't get sucked into making PES like FIFA.
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Dont worry LT, that will never happen, and for so many reasons. Also, PES will never be able to compete with what Fifa does well, they cant match the licences or technology. Konami with never beat EA sports at their own game, and the exact same applies if you flip that coin over.
 
 
LTFC said:
Sadly we all know how the reviewing will go with the two games. I was just surprised that Edge, in all it's pretentious glory, also conveniently managed to overlook all of FIFA's problems, and then proclaim PES as still being dated.
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That's because people want to see beautiful things and not experience it.
 
reviews are good to sell a game the first month, but if pes 2012 will be the better game the word will spread, for sure
so, i don't care at all about reviews
 
Not a big surprise, but Adam hinted that the "epic news" he has been talking about will be online related. Could it be a clubs mode after all? Or is there something with ML online that a lot of people want that could be big?
 
LTFC said:
Sadly we all know how the reviewing will go with the two games. I was just surprised that Edge, in all it's pretentious glory, also conveniently managed to overlook all of FIFA's problems, and then proclaim PES as still being dated. They, along with the majority of the gaming press, most likely played it for a day before rushing the review out. FIFA would instantly play the better in theory, I mean it's taken me ages to figure out the intricacies of PES and it's a vastly better game for that reason. Now that I know what I'm doing, PES feels far superior in gameplay terms. It plays more realistic, is just as hard without being as ludicrously frustrating and 'artificial' feeling, yet the gaming press will have had a day or so, found PES to be frustrating and clunky because they didn't know how to play it, or what controls did what, because you do need to learn these things. So the press will have been largely uninformed when reviewing, and it'll happen this year again. FIFA is instantly playable, but longer term it's no fun to play whatsoever, then there are constant massive bugs in the game's core game modes, which again magazines refuse to ever mention.
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I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you saying that FIFA in longer terms is not fun and it's not deep.

First of all, I'm not a PES player anymore - i was til pes 2008 - but this year i'm going to give it another chance. So I'm not going to criticise PES, because I think it is a great videogame franchise that has lost its way in the recent years, but it has done very well in 2011 and probably will in this new 2012 version.

Now, refering to why I'm quoting you: I think FIFA is a very deep game, moreover if it is played in full manual. Nowadays I'm playing in a very realistic way and I'm enjoying realistic simulation with this game - I know it's gonna sound idiotic, but I've played football all my life -. I can do almost everything.
It is true that the game is not perfect ( poor AI in some situations, etc ) but saying that it isn't a fun game it's not true =)

I'm looking fordward to play both PES 2012 and FIFA 2012, btw.

Appologies for my bad english

PD: I know people say that manual it's not completely the way to go, but nowadays it's the best choice. I can't return to automatic passes and shots, not in FIFA and I expect that not in PES.
 
Nolegend said:
I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you saying that FIFA in longer terms is not fun and it's not deep.

First of all, I'm not a PES player anymore - i was til pes 2008 - but this year i'm going to give it another chance. So I'm not going to criticise PES, because I think it is a great videogame franchise that has lost its way in the recent years, but it has done very well in 2011 and probably will in this new 2012 version.

Now, refering to why I'm quoting you: I think FIFA is a very deep game, moreover if it is played in full manual. Nowadays I'm playing in a very realistic way and I'm enjoying realistic simulation with this game - I know it's gonna sound idiotic, but I've played football all my life -. I can do almost everything.
It is true that the game is not perfect ( poor AI in some situations, etc ) but saying that it isn't a fun game it's not true =)

I'm looking fordward to play both PES 2012 and FIFA 2012, btw.

Appologies for my bad english

PD: I know people say that manual it's not completely the way to go, but nowadays it's the best choice. I can't return to automatic passes and shots, not in FIFA and I expect that not in PES.
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I respect your opinion, but can't agree. I think playing manual in FIFA allows a certain perception of depth, but playing offline, against the game AI, it's awful. The AI is incapable of building up the play, all they can do is get the ball and rush it forwards with the same set moves over and over again. Depth isn't just about when you have the ball, it should also be about when you don't have it. To this end, defending in PES is so much deeper because the AI on Top Player difficulty actually shift the ball about and try to drag you out of position. In FIFA, you can see the AI working set parameters in terms of speed and strength boosting, and every match plays the same.

This argument would be going off topic, so I'll say that with PES2012 it's looking extremely promising with regards to the CPU AI, and this is the main thing I'm looking for at the end of the day.

Jimmy, to be honest I think Konami can compete with FIFA in every respect apart from licences. I actually prefer the game's presentation, the Champions League for me trumps anything FIFA has. I think that graphically, and in terms of animation, sound etc, Konami is capable. In terms of PES' animations, I think there's an unfair bias to FIFA in general. FIFA's are more fluid, sure, but PES feels more solid, and this directly links to the way you control your player, taking individual touches, throwing defenders off balance etc. FIFA might look fluid, but players skate all over the pitch and for all the animations in the world, their bodies have no momentum whatsoever, which makes for a bizarre experience IMO - but I guess you know that already!
 
All the discussions allways end in FIFA vs PES, and it shows that we all want the same: the best football experience possible. Years ago it was clear, pes was the better one, no discussion. Now things are different, the best football experience is teared apart in pieces shared between two games, and we all get confused. The pieces are obvious (graphics, animations, physics, simulation aspects, etc.), and the game that in our different opinions gets the most pieces, is the one we choose.

Like when you break up with your perfect girl, and then you don't find another girl with all the pieces right, and each right piece seems to be in a different girl :D
 
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