PES 2009 General Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA TALK OR POLITICAL CHAT)

[theCRO]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

great avatar Lami, I think every PES game is awesome when u r that high haha. Seabass sees nothing wrong, great fun

 

[pjft]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

I did a quick search but couldn't find them. There are pics from FIFA08 where you see player heads in wireframe mode. And they are complex 3d. That's where my statement came from.

Oh, ok

'cause in the podcast, the same thing was said.

Here are some PES editing pictures with wireframe models too

http://www.gamingaccess.com/forums/attachment-readmore.php?attachmentid=1862

You can find more in this blog:

http://pes2008editing.blogspot.com/2007/10/good-news-for-face-modell-editing.html

Cheers mate!

Just waiting to see if we do get a demo tomorrow or not.

Best regards,

Paulo Tavares

 

[Nick Cave]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

Nick did you play on a standard tv or lcd? I Ask because I had that aneurysm inducing stuttering / jerkiness when I had a SDTV with the AV cables. But once I got my HDTV with an HDMI cable it ran as smooth as honey minus the slowdown as I haven't downloaded the patch. Wierd thing is I prefer the pace of the SDTV game

I tried it on all three formats Plasma, LCD and good old Fat TV , though non are true 1080p HD I did find it better through the HDMI cable but still not great...

 

[ANKLUD]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

"I'll say the opposite: FIFA's faces are actually pretty decent in what concerns 3D models, but by the time they begin texturing those faces, Konami will already have a huge face library and FIFA will have a hard time getting to where Konami is at right now.

Textures have existed in 3D modelling to serve a purpose: to model details in a scalable way. They are not a flaw, they are an enhancement.

You should have some fair play, and accept that PES's faces are technologically more advanced than FIFA's ones - and that's nothing to be ashamed of, nor is it a reason to try and spin things the other way around.

Now, influencing the minds of young people and try to convince them that FIFA's faces are 3D models and PES's faces are just something with a texture is an utter lie."

Paulo Tavares

This is not really true, i am a designer and i do some minor 3d work, i can tell you that producing a texture from good reference photos its quite easy, lets say that if you are good it will take you about 30 min.

On the other hand producing a 3d mesh like the fifa faces its quite hard, to do something like that a professional modeler will take about 3 hous at least(i will need a whole day to do something not perfect ).

You see the diference, lets say you have 1000 3d model:
1000x30min each texture =500 hours
1000x3 hours each 3d model=3000 hous

And after that you can't really reuse the texture of a different 3d nodel, even if you adjust the uv coordinates of the new 3d model to match the old texture you are going to get lots of artifacts, at least you have to re-edit the texture.

If PES will ever starts to use 3d faces as detailed as fifa they will encounter a lot of problems and you can bet that when they start a lot of faces will be awful.

Oh and no, Pes faces are not technologically more advanced than FIFA's ones, like super Mario 64 face with less polygons is not technologically more advanced than super Mario Galaxy face with more polygons.

Said that i don't think we really need that complexity for player faces, its a soccer game, we spend most of the game with a far camera and when we are able to recognize the player from distance we are good to go.
So the really important thing to me are Animations and actually animations are the biggest problem of PES

THE NEW ENGINE??
a think there is a misunderstanding on this forum, a lot of people think that the overhaul Seabass promised is going to include a new 3d engine. He never said that.

This is already the new 3d engine for this generation of console started with PES6 on xbox360 like, if i remember right, Winning eleven 5 was using the first PS2 engine that they are still using on PS2.

Ok i wrote a lot but really i only want Winning eleven 6 FE in HD with a good netcode

 

[Nick Cave]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

Spoiler

This is not really true, i am a designer and i do some minor 3d work, i can tell you that producing a texture from good reference photos its quite easy, lets say that if you are good it will take you about 30 min.

On the other hand producing a 3d mesh like the fifa faces its quite hard, to do something like that a professional modeler will take about 3 hous at least(i will need a whole day to do something not perfect ).

You see the diference, lets say you have 1000 3d model:
1000x30min each texture =500 hours
1000x3 hours each 3d model=3000 hous

And after that you can't really reuse the texture of a different 3d nodel, even if you adjust the uv coordinates of the new 3d model to match the old texture you are going to get lots of artifacts, at least you have to re-edit the texture.

If PES will ever starts to use 3d faces as detailed as fifa they will encounter a lot of problems and you can bet that when they start a lot of faces will be awful.

Oh and no, Pes faces are not technologically more advanced than FIFA's ones, like super Mario 64 face with less polygons is not technologically more advanced than super Mario Galaxy face with more polygons.

Said that i don't think we really need that complexity for player faces, its a soccer game, we spend most of the game with a far camera and when we are able to recognize the player from distance we are good to go.
So the really important thing to me are Animations and actually animations are the biggest problem of PES

THE NEW ENGINE??
a think there is a misunderstanding on this forum, a lot of people think that the overhaul Seabass promised is going to include a new 3d engine. He never said that.

This is already the new 3d engine for this generation of console started with PES6 on xbox360 like, if i remember right, Winning eleven 5 was using the first PS2 engine that they are still using on PS2.

Ok i wrote a lot but really i only want Winning eleven 6 FE in HD with a good netcode

Cheers ANLUD, some good info in there, surely no body is expecting a new game engine though, I thought everyone new it was just a tweaked 2008?

 

[drekkard]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

Just got home after working all night finishing a 3d project, so I will add something to the 3d faces debate (not much because of my condition).

Faces in PES are way simpler then Fifa one in temrs of modelling, like night and day. That doesn't mean they look better or worse, but technologically are one step behind of course.

What Anklud wrote is just as it is. In fact, faces in PES could have to move to full 3D one day eventually (to achieve better lightning, better animation...), they will not always be photo textures in quite low res 3d heads (we are talking about a massive difference in polygon count between Fifa and Pes).

But, by now, even if their solution was technologically inferior, the result was good enough. I think Faces in PES had always been much better than those in Fifa.

The think is, in Fifa 09, the star players are way way better than PES faces, specially when you see those faces animated ingame.

But anyways, I play both games in the wider angle possible and I don't like very much cutscenes, so this discussion is of relative importance to me.

By the way, the important things to me are not being discussed by fans or even in the podcast, sometimes the analysis of gameplay is just "it's better", "feels sweet", "slower" and by the videos, there's nothing new in the game (you don't need to play to know that because it looks exactly the same as in the past 5 years in terms of gameplay mechanics and controls).

I would like to hear what people really think about the following (I tried many times in the thread but hardcore fans will simply ignore it):

- Invest some money in Mocaping real players. Why there's no good mocaping in the game, it's as if they stucked in manual animation for a lot of things. It's because it's cheaper?

- Having more analogic control over the action. The R3 manual pass in pes is a joke and has been for years. Is it possible that the engine is so stretched by now that a decent manual analogic (more than 16 directions at least, please) passing would overflow AI and other routines?

- Having better AI positioning and decision-making (I don't want to see CBs running away for no reason constantly, or sidebacks always letting the wingers unmarked for a run). That's one of the weakest points in PES. They should improve the awareness of players. Fifa uses a Threat-map and every player reacts according to potential threats offensive and defensively. It has worked out very very well. I think PES is still using old patterns here, because things like the headless chicken runs happen way too often. Teamvision was a very very cheap attempt, it simply consists in the CPU juicing the stats of the players to be better than you. Raw force instead of skill, I would say.

- Having a much better collision system and not just a script that puts the ball to the feet of the nearest cpu player

- Removing the "momentum" shift that simply lets the CPU when a team is going to play well or not (I expect that the player decisions should make him win or loose, not a script that simply puts your shots out or in for 5 mins.)

- Invest some money in doing promotion of the things they have done the whole year, how they did it and why they did it.

And now I go to sleep!

 

[FreMM]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

Drekkard,
I share your sentiments concerning real next gen features and I really think that Konami can and must do more.
However, how do you reach them? They cannot be bothered with customer feedback and it is not as the sales are descending....
I think this is the first step towards better PR and an overall better game: improve overall visibility and create a direct and open communication network between the fans and the customer support / PR departement of Konami.

 

[Nick Cave]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

Just got home after working all night finishing a 3d project, and some things make me laugh. Faces in PES are way simpler then Fifa ones. That doesn't mean the ylook better or worse, but technologically are one step behind of course.

What Anklud wrote is just as it is. In fact, faces in PES will have to move to full 3D one day eventually, they will not always be photo textures in quite low res 3d heads (we are talking about a massive difference in polygon count between Fifa and Pes).

But, by now, even if their solution was technologically inferior, the result was good enough. I think Faces in PES have always been much better than those in Fifa.

The think is, in Fifa 09, the star players are way way better than PES faces, specially when you see those faces animated.

But anyways, I play both games in the wider angle possible and I don't like very much cutscenes, so this discussion is of relative importance.

Paulo, why don't you focus your energy in asking Konami for real next-gen features that will impact the gameplay, such as,

- Invest some money in Mocaping real players
- Having more analogic control over the action
- Having better AI positioning and decision-making (I don't want to see CBs running away for no reason constantly, or sidebacks always letting the wingers unmarked for a run)
- Having a much better collision system and not just a script that puts the ball to the feet of the nearest cpu player- Removing the "momentum" shift that simply lets the CPU when a team is going to play well or not (I expect that the player decisions should make him win or loose, not a script that simply puts your shots out or in for 5 mins.)- Invest some money in doing promotion of the things they have done the whole year, how they did it and why they did it.

 

[oreillysairguitar]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

By the way, the important things to me are not being discussed by fans or even in the podcast, sometimes the analysis of gameplay is just "it's better", "feels sweet", "slower" and by the videos, there's nothing new in the game (you don't need to play to know that because it looks exactly the same as in the past 5 years in terms of gameplay mechanics and controls).

I would like to hear what people really think about the following (I tried many times in the thread but hardcore fans will simply ignore it):

- Invest some money in Mocaping real players. Why there's no good mocaping in the game, it's as if they stucked in manual animation for a lot of things. It's because it's cheaper?

- Having more analogic control over the action. The R3 manual pass in pes is a joke and has been for years. Is it possible that the engine is so stretched by now that a decent manual analogic (more than 16 directions at least, please) passing would overflow AI and other routines?

- Having better AI positioning and decision-making (I don't want to see CBs running away for no reason constantly, or sidebacks always letting the wingers unmarked for a run). That's one of the weakest points in PES. They should improve the awareness of players. Fifa uses a Threat-map and every player reacts according to potential threats offensive and defensively. It has worked out very very well. I think PES is still using old patterns here, because things like the headless chicken runs happen way too often. Teamvision was a very very cheap attempt, it simply consists in the CPU juicing the stats of the players to be better than you. Raw force instead of skill, I would say.

- Having a much better collision system and not just a script that puts the ball to the feet of the nearest cpu player

- Removing the "momentum" shift that simply lets the CPU when a team is going to play well or not (I expect that the player decisions should make him win or loose, not a script that simply puts your shots out or in for 5 mins.)

- Invest some money in doing promotion of the things they have done the whole year, how they did it and why they did it.

And now I go to sleep!

This is one of the most intelligent posts iv'e ever come across.

Sure things like untucked shirts add another layer of realism to the game but it's things like this that really add the icing on a cake. hmmmmm....cake.

lol. but seriously nice post man.

The most frustrating thing about the ai positional problems is that they go all the way back to the ISS series.

2. Human Controlled Player (HCP). One of the most annoying things for me seems to be the fact that if the computer doesn't like how you are manoevering the player under your control it takes over. This is best explained with the following two examples:

a) There are times when I can see that I am not going to get to the ball before it bounces therefore I want to run the player back a couple of yards and pick the ball up on the second bounce. But, no, the computer assumes I want to get the player to the ball on the first bounce, often meaning the ball then flies over my head.

b) The ball is going to cross the sideline and become a throw in (for instance). I know that if I get to the ball there will be a very high risk that I will tap it across the line, therefore I try to pull back. Again the computer assumes that I do want to get to the ball and refuses to allow me to pull back and instead sends my player in to the ball and over the line it goes giving the other team the throw in.

3. Computer Selection of HCP. I've lost count of the number of times that I have had a player right on top of the opposing team's player when they have the ball and the computer has decided the best player for me to control is often one that is off screen and in many cases several yards behind the opposing player.

Another annoyance is when tapping L1 to select a player (especially for what I have said in the last paragraph) and because the opposing player has moved slightly the computer instantly reselects another player (again, often one off screen or behind with no chance of catching up).

Has anyone else noticed these problems and are they still in the PS2 version?

http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/1281/t138983-you-have-these-problems/

but i heard it happens alot less if you use manual cursor. and i did try it out myself last night but i find that there are still moments when the ai still does stupid things. e.g. i was playing a match against ac milan and borriello passed the ball to ronaldinho who was standing behind my defender who didn't even move forwards to get the ball, so ronaldinho moved forward took the ball and scored.

 

[gerd]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

I agree with drekkard on all his points except for the least important about investing money in promotion. I'm fairly sure they invested a lot of money, but they invested it all wrong...
But once again, i fully agree with the gameplay suggestions.
I'm a casual gamer and i can't say i have much "game culture", so it will not surprise you that i took me ages to notice that in PES the CPU "cheats"...in fact i started to notice it in the PSP version and i decided to test it. I remember playing a match against NAC Breda with a team that should be much better and loosing it in a very strange way... i decided to replay it intil i had at least a point...after perhaps 20 attempts...i had to stop...
I never played online and i'm fairly sure that i'm not good (and that is an understatement)but i do manage to win a fair amount of games against the CPU...in those particular matches, no matter what i did...it was vitually impossible to score. I sometimes had 70% of ball possession and dozens shots on goal..the cpu had 3 or 4 shots, but they all went in from the most impossible angles...at that moment PES lost much of it's magic for me.
When i bought PES2008 at the beginning i liked it, but after a few matches, i realised the animations were not as good as they used to be and the CPU cheating got worse...almost every free kick for the CPU went in goal...

Sorry for the long post. But you asked reactions from "fans"...i'm considered as a fan...

 

[Trance_Allstar]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

there is some move it PES2008 get me mad and its not fair at all,, when you play with any human mate and he do the fake shoot move ( [] + X or O ) my CBs or any player near him will fall or do a foul automaticly its so bad coz you cant controle that so will it be in PES2009 also or konami fix that bug ?

Atleast in PES5, they only "fall" or try to shotblock if you hold X. So all you need to do is not hold X except when you want to make the player commit to a tackle.

 

[Han]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

- Having better AI positioning and decision-making (I don't want to see CBs running away for no reason constantly, or sidebacks always letting the wingers unmarked for a run). That's one of the weakest points in PES. They should improve the awareness of players. Fifa uses a Threat-map and every player reacts according to potential threats offensive and defensively. It has worked out very very well. I think PES is still using old patterns here, because things like the headless chicken runs happen way too often. Teamvision was a very very cheap attempt, it simply consists in the CPU juicing the stats of the players to be better than you. Raw force instead of skill, I would say.

Interesting to read how FIFA solved this problem, but when defending it leads to chaotic situations in the penalty area, where all players overthere seem to react at potential threats. All players run from their positions, leaving a gap, which is another threat and another defender tries to save the situation.
In PES the defenders stay far better in position, especially when defending.
As you read is my opinion about it a bit different then yours. I think that is because your point works better in the build up and I am talking about the defensive organization. I agree in the previous PES-versions the build up has left room to improve, but I have seen some video's from PES 2009 and the build up looks much better with better positional passes, like one-two's, triangles, chipped passes etc. It was far better tha ever before and also better that I have seen from the FIFA-demo.

- Having a much better collision system and not just a script that puts the ball to the feet of the nearest cpu player

What a pitty to put this childish frase in such a great post

 

[ThomasGOAL]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

HMV special cover

http://hmv.com/hmvweb/displayProductDetails.do?ctx=-1;6;82;-1&sku=735646&WT.ac=PlayStation

 

[ANKLUD]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

What a pitty to put this childish frase in such a great post

???

indeed i agree with drekkard, in PES the way the ball bounce after a contrast or after the keeper clear its always the same and its scripted in some way imho

@ThomasGOAL
Great cover

 

[Han]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

In some way, okay, it is, but Drekkard said it ALWAYS went to the CPU.
Apart from that, there is a button ( R2 ) to trap the ball in difficult situations, limiting this problem.

 

[pjft]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

This is not really true, i am a designer and i do some minor 3d work, i can tell you that producing a texture from good reference photos its quite easy, lets say that if you are good it will take you about 30 min.

I never said the opposite.

On the other hand producing a 3d mesh like the fifa faces its quite hard, to do something like that a professional modeler will take about 3 hous at least(i will need a whole day to do something not perfect ).

You see the diference, lets say you have 1000 3d model:
1000x30min each texture =500 hours
1000x3 hours each 3d model=3000 hous

And after that you can't really reuse the texture of a different 3d nodel, even if you adjust the uv coordinates of the new 3d model to match the old texture you are going to get lots of artifacts, at least you have to re-edit the texture.

I do agree that it takes more time. The question is: does it look better? There is a reason that textures have been playing a huge part in today's 3D games. Techniques such as bump-mapping have existed for years to produce better results than actually modelling rough surfaces with polygons, and to produce better light reflection in ray-tracing algorithms, without the use of more polygons.

And please, don's say that PES doesn't have player faces 3D models, as I have posted you links in this thread for PC editors for the faces in your PES2008 game, where you can see the full mesh of the pla player faces.

It just happens that after the mesh is done, they apply a better texture than the textures FIFA has.

Maybe you should put it the other way around:

Let's say you have 1000 faces to do, reusing textures or face-models:
PES: 1000x30min each texture + 500x2h 4D models = 1500 hours
FIFA: 180x10mins textures + 1000x3 hours each 3d model=3030 hours

If PES will ever starts to use 3d faces as detailed as fifa they will encounter a lot of problems and you can bet that when they start a lot of faces will be awful.

Oh and no, Pes faces are not technologically more advanced than FIFA's ones, like super Mario 64 face with less polygons is not technologically more advanced than super Mario Galaxy face with more polygons.

Here, my friend, is where we disagree the most. Complexity and technological advancement are not correlated, nor comparable. We don't know whether or not PES's faces have more or less polygons than FIFA's ones - even though I suspect FIFA's have more. Nonetheless, it is not the complexity of the model, the polygon count, that matters in the end. Your analogy between Mario64 and Mario Galaxy is flawed in that respect: obviously that I'm not going to contest that Mario Galaxy's faces are better. What I can object to is that you try to correlate technology advance with the polygon count.

If you have a simpler model, which is more efficient (i.e. less polygons and better results), more scalable (you can produce more faces in less time, with more quality), and looks better, how can you not say that they are technically more advanced?

What you are trying to say is something akin to saying that bycicles are technologically more advanced than motorcycles because you take more time to travel the same distance, but you are doing the actual effort while in the case of the motorcycle it's the engine who does it, or that handwritten books by monks are technically more advanced than todays printing techniques because each word used to be hand-drawn, and eveything used to be hand-made, and so it took more time. It was more complex than today's techniques in which you put in a blank page and it prints out an equal page as the last one.

Progress and advances are here to try to make you more effective, more efficient, while producing better results!

I too have made 3D models, I too have made textures, and I'm fairly knowledgeable in this field. I am not saying that FIFA's team are doing a bad job at it. I am just saying: in today's next-gen world, with increasingly more complex models, you need to make the models look real as well as detailed. You can indeed hire a huge team to create detailed meshes of player faces. You can also - and will also - texture it afterwards. FIFA's faces also have textures, mind you.

Best regards,

Paulo Tavares

EDIT:

You can see what I'm talking about here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_mapping

Let's assume that the PES faces are the image here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bump-map-demo-bumpy.png

I'm saying that PES uses textures to get the detail, while you're saying that FIFA models it in 3D.

I'm saying that PES's models are more advanced because of the texture techniques, and you're trying to defend that FIFA is more advanced because it tries to model the bumps manually in a 3D mesh.

You're wrong: it's just more complex, less efficient, and will produce worst results - and I'm not even getting at the hard time the graphics engine will have to render all those polygons. That's where they have to start compromising detail.

 

[Badgerman]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

The faces thing seems a bit of a non-issue to me. You can't see them during the game and the cut scenes with close-ups is pretty much skipping fodder. I appreciate that the aesthetics of a game is important, but Football Kingdom was one of the best games (visually) that I've ever seen, but it still wasn't close to PES.

P.S. Hope you learned your lesson and behave from now on

Oh fantastic, I knew we wouldn't be deprived of him for long.


Edit: Ahahahah at the title

 

[pjft]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

Paulo, why don't you focus your energy in asking Konami for real next-gen features that will impact the gameplay, such as,

- Invest some money in Mocaping real players
- Having more analogic control over the action
- Having better AI positioning and decision-making (I don't want to see CBs running away for no reason constantly, or sidebacks always letting the wingers unmarked for a run)
- Having a much better collision system and not just a script that puts the ball to the feet of the nearest cpu player- Removing the "momentum" shift that simply lets the CPU when a team is going to play well or not (I expect that the player decisions should make him win or loose, not a script that simply puts your shots out or in for 5 mins.)- Invest some money in doing promotion of the things they have done the whole year, how they did it and why they did it.

Because I have not, ever, wasted my energy asking for Konami to do anything.

I just take it for what it is.

Not that I don't agree with you that those features would make the game better, mind you. I'm just saying that I prefer to focus my energies on stopping misconceptions from spreading as if they were the truth.

If we'd have a path that we knew that would allow us to collaborate with them, I'd be all up for it, mind you. But while that path doesn't exist, I feel that the battle we are trying to fight is a losing one, and won't be fruitful.

Best regards,

Paulo Tavares

 

[jonneymendoza]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

PES PES come on do well this year

 

[FreMM]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

Paolo, I really do enjoying reding every single post you write, because basically, you seem to find an unmastered level between stating issues aswell as clearing them up or refering to them in an intelligent and well stated manner. I think if Konami would hire you, then they would have an expansion to the certain degree of communication within the company as well as to the outside world. I take my hat off to you good sir.

However, I also get the feeling that you try to mask your critism a bit. I agree with the fact that Konami doesnt owe us anything, but quite frankly, I am often astounded when comparing the leaps FIFA makes to those that PES makes. I am no fanboy, but I always had a thing for PES and lately thats starting to fade...Let just hope they deliver with this years installement..

 

[seppovich]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

This is one of the most intelligent posts iv'e ever come across.

Sure things like untucked shirts add another layer of realism to the game but it's things like this that really add the icing on a cake. hmmmmm....cake.

lol. but seriously nice post man.

The most frustrating thing about the ai positional problems is that they go all the way back to the ISS series.



http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/1281/t138983-you-have-these-problems/

but i heard it happens alot less if you use manual cursor. and i did try it out myself last night but i find that there are still moments when the ai still does stupid things. e.g. i was playing a match against ac milan and borriello passed the ball to ronaldinho who was standing behind my defender who didn't even move forwards to get the ball, so ronaldinho moved forward took the ball and scored.

if you press + the same time, you can move your player around free.
also try semi-fixed cursor in defense you can keep one player the whole time.

 

[Badgerman]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

Because I have not, ever, wasted my energy asking for Konami to do anything.

I just take it for what it is.

Ding ding ding.

Honestly, a lot of you are your own worst enemy. Writing wishlists and all that malarky is all well and good, but Konami do not report to people on the internet. They do what they do and thankfully more often than not the end product is a corker.

 

[pjft]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

Paolo, I really do enjoying reding every single post you write, because basically, you seem to find an unmastered level between stating issues aswell as clearing them up or refering to them in an intelligent and well stated manner. I think if Konami would hire you, then they would have an expansion to the certain degree of communication within the company as well as to the outside world. I take my hat off to you good sir.

However, I also get the feeling that you try to mask your critism a bit. I agree with the fact that Konami doesnt owe us anything, but quite frankly, I am often astounded when comparing the leaps FIFA makes to those that PES makes. I am no fanboy, but I always had a thing for PES and lately thats starting to fade...Let just hope they deliver with this years installement..

Thanks mate.

You are right, though. I always try to post in a way that I do get my points across without trying to offend anyone - if any, I usually try to defend more than offend

In forums like these - which I have moderated in the past - it is as much as a place for discussion as it is a place to learn. I try to do my best of keeping the thread going without falling into the easy trap of starting to flame one another.

Nonetheless, I am not without criticism towards the series. I can see that the leaps FIFA have been making are tremendous. I wish many of those things would come to PES. I believe some of them will come, in due time.

I for one, was astounded at the presentation FIFA08 had. The news feed with soccer news completely blew me away. The arena is simply superb. PES does feel rather "old" when compared to this slicker presentation.

On other notes, I can admire people mastering FIFA's manual pass mode, and I can accept that they would want it in PES. I, for one, just don't have the time, nowadays, nor availability to devote myself into mastering such a mechanism. Maybe I should, but sadly work, life and family don't allow me such benefits nowadays.

That's why I don't complain that much about FIFA's control should come to PES. I accept that it would make many people happy, but then again, the way it is suits me more or less - some improvements would be welcome, but I'm not going to force them.

I can see effort in what Seabass's team deliver to the table, where many people see reasons to criticize. It's not that I don't see reasons to criticize and demand more, but then again, I'm more of a "benefit of the doubt giver" person. Sure, they could do more.

Since I have worked in software development for years - at a time, I actually harvested the youthful dream of one day working at KCET, making PES :roll: - I know that it is hard to do what they do every year, even if it seems little to us.

What FIFA does every year is an astounding corporate feat. Managing huge teams is not an easy feat, mind you. They have a well-oiled machine there, and they are actually getting somewhere nowadays, even though it doesn't do it for me yet. Doing what they do is a hard job.

If I wanted to compare the work that FIFA has creating all the thousands of players they have thanks to their huge database, compared to the work Seabass's team has with its much smaller database, I'd say that Seabass has a much easier task. I actually hate that they don't add more teams to the game. I resent them for never having gotten the Portuguese league - even though I was the happiest man on earth when the Portuguese big 3 first made it into the game.

I agree with you: I used to have a thing for PES, and that has been fading for a while. It still is the game I play the most - even though in 2008's edition I only play it offline multiplayer now. I am thoroughly enjoying Fantasista mode in JLWE2008CC, and the "Become a Legend" mode has been something that I have been craving for almost a decade.

This PES2009 pre-season has definitely been re-lighting my passion for PES.

Not because of the Messi video that wasn't that great;
Not because of the huge anti-climax that I had when Leipzig begun and the reactions started hitting;
Not because of the jerky animations;
Not because the game looks similar to 2008.
Not because of the CL license.
Not because of the improvements they made.

It is that "special something" that I can't really put my finger on, that PES seemed to have been losing, and now seems to be getting back.

I am as hyped as a little kid on Christmas eve.

God knows I missed that feeling concerning a video game, concerning PES.

Best regards,

Paulo Tavares

[EDIT] One of the greatest gripes I always had - and still have - with indirect free-kicks, I learned yesterday that I could circumvent it with the manual pass in next-gen PES2008. Thanks a lot, mr. Keith Houchen

 

[twoodster]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

HMV special cover

http://hmv.com/hmvweb/displayProductDetails.do?ctx=-1;6;82;-1&sku=735646&WT.ac=PlayStation

Makes sense. Both are massively underachieving and struggling for ideas

 

[OPM]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

i've preordered from there...don't want to see stupid messi everytime i put in the disc.

 

[BillyBoy]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

I want to see the official Liverpool FC PES 2009 cover.

 

[zeemeister]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

Man all these great posts about how far behind PES is to FIFA. Face-mapping, manual passing, 360 movement, licenses, etc, etc.

Yet everytime I have played FIFA08 my mind yearned to have the fluidity and the crisp movement that PES has - 2008 included.
Also many reviewers tend to rate PES above FIFA in respect of gameplay consistently which may be due to the licensing money that PES uses to pay the reviewers to rate PES above FIFA. This may be why PES2009 have less licenses as KONAMI need to pay more this year. You heard it here first.

As things stand now I will be buying PES2009 and FIFA 09 later. I'll make my own decisions again.

 

[Mumpleaser]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

Man all these great posts about how far behind PES is to FIFA. Face-mapping, manual passing, 360 movement, licenses, etc, etc.

Yet everytime I have played FIFA08 my mind yearned to have the fluidity and the crisp movement that PES has - 2008 included.
Also many reviewers tend to rate PES above FIFA in respect of gameplay consistently which may be due to the licensing money that PES uses to pay the reviewers to rate PES above FIFA. This may be why PES2009 have less licenses as KONAMI need to pay more this year. You heard it here first.

As things stand now I will be buying PES2009 and FIFA 09 later. I'll make my own decisions again.

Fully agree. It's the special 'umph' that many others refer to that makes PES better than FIFA every year. No one (not even Badgerman) can put his/her finger on what it is but you can loosely call it superior gameplay. Sure, PES2008 was a shambles, but it was superior to FIFA08. I have played both to death but I never play FIFA08 anymore. But PES2008 gets me online almost everynight.......

 

[polakis]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

From WENB:

Konami Release Licenses Info & Images

In the run up to the game and this weekend’s PES Rankings tournament in Rome, Konami have given the PES fans something to shout. A new batch of images and details on the licenses within PES 2009.
Here’s the official press release:

And the news stop there. No link...

 

[evacuate]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS OR POLITICAL CHA

click to see the full story...