Manchester United Thread

[Lami]

Ughgh.

Well on the flipside, I'm happy we got Martial. I like seeing us buying potential and we make sure they become world class, but I'm certainly not happy about the size of money we put in. But I'm kind of confused with this purchase after reading @beachryan post. Does it mean we've paid nothing so far and will only pay if Martial fulfills conditions?

 

[northstandhero]

£22m up front, £3.5m per year for each of the four years of the contract, that takes it to the £36m that the press are running with. The other add ons are performance related as in being leading goalscorer in the league and winning ballon d'or, golden boy etc.

 

[gerd]

About Rojo.
It seems LVG has difficulties managing both South-American players and GK's.
He has had troubles with these players at various clubs.

 

[Godotelli]

So does anyone actually know anything about Martial?

What a weird window for us. Guessing this'll be the first XI:

------------------Romero------------------
--Darmian----Smalling--Blind----Shaw------
-----------Schweini---Schneids------------
-------------------Mata-------------------
-----Martial--------------------Depay-----
-------------------Rooney-----------------

If Martial gets in it. Crazy to think only 2 of those players were here 2 years ago.

Better hope Smalling is over his injuries! With Jones always injured you're one injury away from a McNair+Blind partnership

 

[YoungGun_UK]

were like that all over the pitch barring (wait for it!) CM any injury and our 2nd string is a massive step down.

I think top four is the target again, but might be even more difficult this year.

 

[gerd]

I think top four is the target again, but might be even more difficult this year.

Isn't that a litle bit pessimistic?
What club would 'intrude' the top 4?

Liverpool maybe.
Spurs: no chance.
Swansea: that would be great, but i don't see that happening...

I hoenstly don't see other candidates...

 

[Lami]

£22m up front, £3.5m per year for each of the four years of the contract, that takes it to the £36m that the press are running with. The other add ons are performance related as in being leading goalscorer in the league and winning ballon d'or, golden boy etc.

Thanks mate.

Isn't that a litle bit pessimistic?
What club would 'intrude' the top 4?

Liverpool maybe.
Spurs: no chance.
Swansea: that would be great, but i don't see that happening...

I hoenstly don't see other candidates...

Everton Maybe?

 

[gerd]

Don't think so, Lami...under Moyes, yes, but not under Martinez.

 

[beachryan]

I still think LFC will sort it out. Hopefully not til after the next match though

Am excited about Martial, but don't think we'll see much of him at first. Apparently he basically never completes 90 minutes - and given each match we'll have at least 1 injury and 1 FB will be subbed (LVG's obsession - every match) means limited ability to change things up front.

Just hope we do everything in our power to show big Dave the love. Need to use this disaster as well as we can. Send Ander and Juan over for cuddles or something.

 

[YoungGun_UK]

Isn't that a litle bit pessimistic?
What club would 'intrude' the top 4?

Liverpool maybe.
Spurs: no chance.
Swansea: that would be great, but i don't see that happening...

I hoenstly don't see other candidates...

Liverpool are contenders, with Benteke they have a CF who will score goals, and right now I'd rather have him than Rooney.

 

[PIPA23]

lol guys, Liverpool will have big problems, so far the formations we played show we can´t use Benteke properly... this will cause Rodgers his job...also the Lovren fiasco....having Sakho on bench.

i was hopefull, but we realy look shite so far...lucky win against Bournemouth and trashing by WHU proved this.... we are in trouble still.

 

[Godotelli]

LFC have a chance if they get their act together.

Utd have more games but a smaller squad. They are a few injuries at CB/ST away from 'crisis'

 

[gerd]

Liverpool pack decent CB's.
In modern football you need CB's who are defensively strong and also technically skilled. Liverpool does not have that kind of CB.

 

[PIPA23]

this is interesting..

 

[Godotelli]

 

[spektarm]

I don't like neither Moyes nor Van Gaal, but the only thing that really matters for the club is that Moyes finished 7th and Van Gaal 4th.

 

[gerd]

THE incoming transfers should also taken into account.
Moyes wasten much less money than LVG.

 

[Panthera1]

this is interesting..

In Van Gaal's defence Moyes inherited a title winning team. Sure alot were coming to the end but still there shouldn't have been that much of a drop. Van Gaal is making massive changes to the squad for the past 2 years and sometimes it takes time to bed everything in. People forget Chelsea and city took a couple of years to come good after massive investment. Rodgers has spent 275 million (be it over 7 Years)and has nothing to show for it.

Still Van Gaal has also spent alot of money with nothing to show from it and as Brendan said "If you spend more than £100 million, you expect to be challenging for the league."

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

Rodgers is in his 4th season, not 7th.

 

[Panthera1]

Rodgers is in his 4th season, not 7th.

Sorry even worse

 

[Lami]

In Van Gaal's defence Moyes inherited a title winning team. Sure alot were coming to the end but still there shouldn't have been that much of a drop. Van Gaal is making massive changes to the squad for the past 2 years and sometimes it takes time to bed everything in. People forget Chelsea and city took a couple of years to come good after massive investment. Rodgers has spent 275 million (be it over 7 Years)and has nothing to show for it.

Still Van Gaal has also spent alot of money with nothing to show from it and as Brendan said "If you spend more than £100 million, you expect to be challenging for the league."

That post should be more in Moyes' defence. Van Gaal has spent a lot and allowed time to change because of his big name while Moyes wasn't and inherited a worn out team that managed to win with Sir Alex's hairdryer. I still believe Moyes was made scapegoat and should've been given more time and money. I believe he's done great at Everton with the freedom he had with little money. H'es also given them character. If he had sheikh money he'd have done even better there imo.

 

[gerd]

That post should be more in Moyes' defence. Van Gaal has spent a lot and allowed time to change because of his big name while Moyes wasn't and inherited a worn out team that managed to win with Sir Alex's hairdryer. I still believe Moyes was made scapegoat and should've been given more time and money. I believe he's done great at Everton with the freedom he had with little money. H'es also given them character. If he had sheikh money he'd have done even better there imo.

Couldn't agree more.
Moyes made the mistake to come after Ferguson.
I'm currently reading a fantastic book about tactics (Universality) where the author thinks that the second United success period (2006-2010, with Ronaldo) was more the work of Carlos Queroz than Ferguson. The biggest mistake was that United didn't propose Queroz as Ferguson's succeder when he wanted to become Portugal's national coach. Ferguson should have steppend down at that moment.

 

[Lami]

Couldn't agree more.
Moyes made the mistake to come after Ferguson.
I'm currently reading a fantastic book about tactics (Universality) where the author thinks that the second United success period (2006-2010, with Ronaldo) was more the work of Carlos Queroz than Ferguson. The biggest mistake was that United didn't propose Queroz as Ferguson's succeder when he wanted to become Portugal's national coach. Ferguson should have steppend down at that moment.

I have read that somewhere as well and no wonder after he left the team felt weaker. I've read he was the main man behind Ronaldo's success at United, but I don't know if it's true.

 

[Panthera1]

That post wasn't to criticize moyes it was more more to show the that there are different circumstances for the two managers that can't be explained with simple stats as they don't tell the full story.

 

[YoungGun_UK]

It's a completely different ball game being 'assistant' to being the manager, his time at Real Madrid shows that.

no one could replace Sir Alex without us all wishing he'd return, Mourinho would probably be the only option who could have continued winning things.

 

[gerd]

It's a completely different ball game being 'assistant' to being the manager, his time at Real Madrid shows that.

no one could replace Sir Alex without us all wishing he'd return, Mourinho would probably be the only option who could have continued winning things.

Real Madrid is something totally different.
Using this to make your point is the same as using his time at Everton to make the point that Moyes os a fantastic manager.

Why is it that most United fans refuse to see that Ferguson left the club in a mess? During his last years he only had a short term vision. Of course he is arguably the best ever manager, but at the end he made some serious mistakes.

 

[beachryan]

Real Madrid is something totally different.
Using this to make your point is the same as using his time at Everton to make the point that Moyes os a fantastic manager.

Why is it that most United fans refuse to see that Ferguson left the club in a mess? During his last years he only had a short term vision. Of course he is arguably the best ever manager, but at the end he made some serious mistakes.

Yep. He meant to leave up until the 96th minute of the QPR match. Stayed a season, won the league because for him I guess it really is that easy, but never bothered rebuilding the squad.

Personally I think he had no choice - the Glazers stripped United of the ability to be a 'big' team, and it was only through sheer will did Fergie keep us up there. If you look at our spend in his last 6 years relative to all other European teams, it's an utter miracle we finished in the top 4, much less won leagues and went to CL finals.

But, whether because he couldn't spend or because he couldn't be bothered, he left us seriously screwed. I've always thought Moyes was a patsy because we didn't get Mourinho...

 

[bebo]

you give too much importance to Mou lol . He would not walking in a club after SAF and be told we`re limited to funds. The door w'd of shut before they utter the words 'to funds'. Mou used MUTD to return to Chelsea...another thing Ronaldo is not coming back lol

I hear this Mou/Ronaldo so much ppl are starting to use it as an excuse.Roma Empire fell once! the problem MUTD has is MCity are forcing MUTD`s hand(reckless transfers). No more Berbatovs` walking out of the medical room of City to join MUTD. I heard Neville saying MUTD had the squad to do the work ,but players kept being pushed out ...SAF instilled a certain mentally that he fears is no longer there.

 

[Godotelli]

RVP isn't a signing a younger Ferguson makes. Utd fans can't exactly begrudge him doing what was best for him rather than the club but it did leave Moyes in the lurch


Was listening to Sunday Supplement early and some of the add ons they mention for Martial are money in the bank for Monaco
Once he has scored 25 goals for Utd and has 25 international caps for France Utd have to pay a further 20mE
So £51.5m for a return that Welbeck achieved with ease
The other £7m, that of winning the Ballon d'Or in the next 4 years, Welbz hasn't YET achieved...

 

[beachryan]

RVP isn't a signing a younger Ferguson makes. Utd fans can't exactly begrudge him doing what was best for him rather than the club but it did leave Moyes in the lurch


Was listening to Sunday Supplement early and some of the add ons they mention for Martial are money in the bank for Monaco
Once he has scored 25 goals for Utd and has 25 international caps for France Utd have to pay a further 20mE
So £51.5m for a return that Welbeck achieved with ease
The other £7m, that of winning the Ballon d'Or in the next 4 years, Welbz hasn't YET achieved...

Yep, those are the conditions named by Monaco president. They're notably different from those 'leaked' by MUFC.

We'll see I guess. In the last 3 seasons not that many players have scored 25 goals for United, depressingly, so if he does indeed hit 25 - particularly in his first 2 years for example, I'll be happy with the 10m.

The other part they're not highlighting is that only £21.5m of the initial fee is due this year. The remainder is paid over the 4 years if he remains a United player.

So basically if he sucks, we'll end up having paid £21.5m. A lot of money to be sure, but at the same time that's a Lazar Markovic, a Marko Marin, way less than Erik Lamela and so forth. Ie, not nearly as HEADLINE GRABBING as it sounds.

As I posted before, if we end up paying more than £35m for him it'll be because he's become an integral part of our first team. And that'll be expensive but far from insane.

It's also amazing reading the presses reaction to United this summer. LVG has seriously gotten under their skin.

One manager offloads a ton of under performing players, shaving off £50m a year from the wage bill, brings in young talent and has his team in 5th at the start of the year. Gives more starts to youth players last season than any other team in the top 10. Wins crucial European qualifier at a canter.

Another manager buys some random Reading defender for £4m, loaned him immediately back, and buys a defender labelled by French journalist Phillipe Auclair as 'a joke, there must be more going on'. Suspends his medical staff because they did their job. Calls out his players in a post match interview. Oh and is currently sitting 13th in the league. Has played 1 youth team product in the past 12 months in the league, once.

One of those teams has a negative article about them in every UK paper on Sunday. The other has a puff piece about how Kennedy could be good.

Always hated, never ignored.