- Thread starter
- #41,971
Vannizzlefashizzal
TWENTYTIMES!!!!
- 31 October 2002
Do we have to??
Manchester United Thread
- Thread starter Vannizzlefashizzal
- Start date
Do we have to??
gerd
Retired Footballer
No but just when you wrote that Liverpool won what couldn't be the most entertaining match of the year. And football is all about entertainment.
Results are more important?
Take a look at LVG's results...they are bad.
You know what is worst?
No other club is afraid of United. Under Ferguson, before the match started United had an advantage because every other club was afraid to get humiliated. Now the likes of Norwich win at Old Trafford...
Results are more important?
Take a look at LVG's results...they are bad.
You know what is worst?
No other club is afraid of United. Under Ferguson, before the match started United had an advantage because every other club was afraid to get humiliated. Now the likes of Norwich win at Old Trafford...
- Thread starter
- #41,973
Vannizzlefashizzal
TWENTYTIMES!!!!
- 31 October 2002
Sorry Gerd but that is a flawed evaluation. Entertainment is both subjective and arbitrary.
Entertainment does not fill trophy cabinets. Results do. Anyone who says different isn't used to their teams being in that position.
We had equally poor seasons under SAF, 01-02 springs to mind straight away. We lost 9 games in the league and finished third behind lfc. Guess what, we were entertaining that year, scored bags of goals.
Were the supporters happy? No. Did the press focus on us being entertaining? No.
I may be wrong, City supporters might not care about being Champions and would rather lose their last matches in entertaining 4-3 games and blow an amazing chance to win the League.
Or would they beg for Ranieri to engineer the most boring 1-nils and make history.
As for LVGS results being bad, I can only think you're comparing it to a United team from 7-8 years ago. Which is highly unfair. If LVG's results are as bad as you say they are then the 15 teams below us must be having awful seasons.
Oh and the likes of Norwich winning at OT is the way it should be, shouldn't it Gerd? Is that not entertainment? Seems you want it both ways (pause).
Last edited:
PIPA23
retired :)
- 21 June 2007
I think the bigest fear of United supporters is the near future, always.... will be.. they are used to a manager who stayed there for very long time, each time used to having same plan, same style...with changes obviously, but now they already know LVG will be gone and the bigest fear is the future, what will bring appointment of a new manager.. other clubs know that feeling well, except maybe Arsenal, but United are new to this, especially the younger United fans... so this is a big shock for many of them i can only imagine... not knowing exactly what will happend. Even Mourinho is not a magican... he maybe will destroy the only good thing LVG did imo....and that´s introduction of many young players...
But i have to agree with Gerd, United lacks fear factor, it is gone... With situations like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4ZNEilydrs
These players are only shadow of past United big leaders and figures... heck even Beckham had balls back then...
Mourinho might install it back but i personally think Mourinho is finished... i mean the real Mourinho... maybe im wrong but... see what he did to Chelsea.. he is not a long term solution..
The sooner United fans realise the days of their domination style football are over, the better will the players perform on pitch..because this is just to much pressure on them to perform..while you don´t have the quality...and even if you have the quality, they are to young or unexperienced or you don´t have a coach who can use them best way.... then there are underperforming stars like Rooney who just drain money from the club... idk, i dont care for United to be honest, but i sometimes feel sorry for the youngsters there... who have no fault in this...
But i have to agree with Gerd, United lacks fear factor, it is gone... With situations like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4ZNEilydrs
These players are only shadow of past United big leaders and figures... heck even Beckham had balls back then...
Mourinho might install it back but i personally think Mourinho is finished... i mean the real Mourinho... maybe im wrong but... see what he did to Chelsea.. he is not a long term solution..
The sooner United fans realise the days of their domination style football are over, the better will the players perform on pitch..because this is just to much pressure on them to perform..while you don´t have the quality...and even if you have the quality, they are to young or unexperienced or you don´t have a coach who can use them best way.... then there are underperforming stars like Rooney who just drain money from the club... idk, i dont care for United to be honest, but i sometimes feel sorry for the youngsters there... who have no fault in this...
Last edited:
@Vann: You'd have a point if LVG was getting results. He's not. We have less points now than ANY OTHER PREM SEASON. Fine, not all time, but that's 25 years. And of course 15 odd less goals. We've had 15 matches this season with no goals at halftime. Had numerous matches where Manchester United literally did not shoot the ball at the other goal more than 2 times in 90 minutes.
My issue with LVG isn't that he plays dull football, incessantly. It's that it doesn't work, and he's too old/egotistical/stubborn to do anything about it. Personally I don't buy into the success at the expense of entertainment being an actual thing in a league. You don't win a league by being dull every match, it's impossible. You have to score goals. And to do that you have to try and score goals.
LVG is the worst of both worlds. We're going to finish in a lower position than last year, with our lowest point total in 25 years, with our lowest goals scored in 25 years, with our fewest goal attempts in 25 years and he will have changed nothing to fix it.
If that's not enough to get you fired, might as well get him on tenure.
@PIPA: You're totally right. If Rooney had carried an injured player off the pitch he would have been sent off, the press would have redone their front pages and Mike Dean would have flown from wherever he was to send off Juan Mata. Speaking of people not being afraid, check the refereeing we have in the post-Fergie era. We get no marginal calls, and get loads of harsh ones. Refs are making up for lost time.
To repeat, Mark Noble physically picked up an injured player and hauled him off the pitch. Explain to me which part of the refereeing rules that is okay in? He didn't even get a speaking to.
My issue with LVG isn't that he plays dull football, incessantly. It's that it doesn't work, and he's too old/egotistical/stubborn to do anything about it. Personally I don't buy into the success at the expense of entertainment being an actual thing in a league. You don't win a league by being dull every match, it's impossible. You have to score goals. And to do that you have to try and score goals.
LVG is the worst of both worlds. We're going to finish in a lower position than last year, with our lowest point total in 25 years, with our lowest goals scored in 25 years, with our fewest goal attempts in 25 years and he will have changed nothing to fix it.
If that's not enough to get you fired, might as well get him on tenure.
@PIPA: You're totally right. If Rooney had carried an injured player off the pitch he would have been sent off, the press would have redone their front pages and Mike Dean would have flown from wherever he was to send off Juan Mata. Speaking of people not being afraid, check the refereeing we have in the post-Fergie era. We get no marginal calls, and get loads of harsh ones. Refs are making up for lost time.
To repeat, Mark Noble physically picked up an injured player and hauled him off the pitch. Explain to me which part of the refereeing rules that is okay in? He didn't even get a speaking to.
Last edited:
Godotelli
Stroking Silva's Hair
You can get away with dire football if you're amassing a lot of points.
You can't really get away with it when you're struggling and going backwards tho, esp. not after spending close to 300m, and not at a club like Utd who were successful only a few years ago.
I quite like LVG tbh, I like his demeanour and the fact that he actually has tactics - meaning in the tougher games you can get results - but, as Beach says, he is clearly too stringent it their application which has led to the team struggling against the lesser/defensive teams.
He should get credit for his use of youngsters tho. Of course injuries have played a part but there's no way Mourinho would have done anything remotely like this. He'd have loaned in Falcao before even acknowledging Rashford's existence.
You can't really get away with it when you're struggling and going backwards tho, esp. not after spending close to 300m, and not at a club like Utd who were successful only a few years ago.
I quite like LVG tbh, I like his demeanour and the fact that he actually has tactics - meaning in the tougher games you can get results - but, as Beach says, he is clearly too stringent it their application which has led to the team struggling against the lesser/defensive teams.
He should get credit for his use of youngsters tho. Of course injuries have played a part but there's no way Mourinho would have done anything remotely like this. He'd have loaned in Falcao before even acknowledging Rashford's existence.
Last edited:
gerd
Retired Footballer
Seems you're pissed off, Vann...no need for that.
Norwich winning at Old Trafford is indeed in a way entertaining. Look how people react to Leicester...most football fans call it a fairy tale...and to be honest, ifi wasn't a Spurs fan i would also hope that Leicester win.
So Norwich winning is entertaining from the point of view of a neutral, but hardly for a Man Utd fan.
You also say that there are 15 worse teams than United. That is true, but the standard for United seemed to be that there were 19 worse teams than United not 15.
Maybe United should go for Wenger who considers 4th place a trophy, i don't think the average United fan would agree (and for the record, i agree with Wenger, but perhaps not for Arsenal, as a Spurs fan i would happily sign for a 4th spot every year).
LVG now gets lots of credit for the youngster he introduced in the first team. I'm not sure if he dserves that credit. If Rashford is this good, shouldn't he have had a chance much more earlier than now?
Norwich winning at Old Trafford is indeed in a way entertaining. Look how people react to Leicester...most football fans call it a fairy tale...and to be honest, ifi wasn't a Spurs fan i would also hope that Leicester win.
So Norwich winning is entertaining from the point of view of a neutral, but hardly for a Man Utd fan.
You also say that there are 15 worse teams than United. That is true, but the standard for United seemed to be that there were 19 worse teams than United not 15.
Maybe United should go for Wenger who considers 4th place a trophy, i don't think the average United fan would agree (and for the record, i agree with Wenger, but perhaps not for Arsenal, as a Spurs fan i would happily sign for a 4th spot every year).
LVG now gets lots of credit for the youngster he introduced in the first team. I'm not sure if he dserves that credit. If Rashford is this good, shouldn't he have had a chance much more earlier than now?
- Thread starter
- #41,978
Vannizzlefashizzal
TWENTYTIMES!!!!
- 31 October 2002
Not pissed off with you old friend. My anger is more towards the short sighted and ignorant comments from fellow United supporters, sincere apologies if I came across that way. But your previous comments/remarks seem so unbalanced and bias I am surprised at you Gerd? I do have issues with all the comments in your recent post, if I may continue?
This is a circular argument. Football is nearly always entertaining to someone, even a draw can be rewarding. I don't fully understand your point. It is an understatement to say true entertainment in the way (I think) you're describing has been short in supply for us this season (and the last two) I don't see how that isn't the case the same for every club at some time. In your opinion, its seems, United are beyond that. 30+ years following the club I can accept it a few poor seasons, I did under SAF, why wouldnt I for LVG. He has to build a team almost from scratch, only DDG and Smalling from SAF reign could be playing for us in the future.
And when I highlight we are not the worst team in the league by a long shot and you reply with this....
You've well and truly moved the goal posts now Gerd mate. We are not good enough to be champions, I don't like that but it doesn't make it any less true. What has past achievements go to do with now? Not much from where I'm standing. We're 5th with 4 four points separating us from the 3rd and 4th spot, that is a fact, why ignore that?
Apart from this comment being borderline snide as a point of discussion, it is worthless. The only supporters that will be happy at the end of each season are the supporters of teams with silverware to show or who avoid the drop.
Look at man city, every year I used to hear, "winning isn't everything" or "we don't care about trophies" All that soon changes once the silverware starts to adorn the walls, anyone who says different hasn't seen their team win anything, ever.
This is kinda funny do you not see your bias here? When he brings in these young players, it should've been sooner.......
Wait, is it because he's Dutch?
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #41,979
Vannizzlefashizzal
TWENTYTIMES!!!!
- 31 October 2002
You can win a league with 1 goal a game and clean sheets, the gooners have a song about it.
We are are not playing in any other season we are playing in this one, the one with City and Spurs as 1st and 2nd, the one with reigning champions barely in the top 10. It seems your inability to grasp the present is somehow LVGs fault. We are 5th and in a semi-final. The rest of the league must be absolute dog shit if we're in that position.
You have made your mind up, you refuse to look at any positives, enjoy your year off.
Last edited:
gerd
Retired Footballer
Hi Vann. Thinks for your mild repliy. I hope i didn't offend you.
You made some good points in your last post.
It's true that most Belgians consider the Dutch as our big rivale, but i don't. I rather like the Dutch and certainly Dutch football. Since i've read the book about Enke, i don't like LVG and Frank De Boer.
But still i consider him a good manager. Only bespied the fantastic work with Ajax, AZ and Bayern, he has had some spectaculair fails (for instance the first time he was national coach in Holland). It seems there is no middle grond with him. He's either very good or very bad. Imo he's done a bad job at United, considering all the money he spend. But who am i?
You made some good points in your last post.
It's true that most Belgians consider the Dutch as our big rivale, but i don't. I rather like the Dutch and certainly Dutch football. Since i've read the book about Enke, i don't like LVG and Frank De Boer.
But still i consider him a good manager. Only bespied the fantastic work with Ajax, AZ and Bayern, he has had some spectaculair fails (for instance the first time he was national coach in Holland). It seems there is no middle grond with him. He's either very good or very bad. Imo he's done a bad job at United, considering all the money he spend. But who am i?
Wow, just can't agree with much of that Vann. Fair enough you're obviously entitled to your opinion as a long time fan as well. If you genuinely see where LVG is taking this United team, how his philosophy is moving us in a positive direction...then good on you. Wish I did!
Personally I just think the game has passed him by, and that his tactics don't work in the premier league, or possibly in today's elite-fitness times. And it's not getting better, it's getting worse.
There are mitigating circumstances - we might well 'win' the injury league for the 3rd season in a row (someone should seriously look into this, it's ridiculous). We put a lot of eggs in the Schweinsteiger basket and he'll basically have only played 3 months of the season. We didn't buy a defender presumably to let Phil Jones have his finally healthy season...and I'm not sure he's played more than 60 minutes all year. And as I've posted on here before, I don't believe any team in the modern game at the top level has churned through an entire squad in such a short space of time. Basically, we have 20/25 'new' players in our squad, in just 3 years.
But that doesn't excuse terrible substitutions, tactics that, after the first WHU semi-final had the players being quoted as saying : We had no idea where we were supposed to be playing, and a cautious first approach that has made actually watching us worse than at any point in my lifetime.
He seems to get a lot of credit for Rashford, but he's only there because Will Keane came on and tore his groin with his first shot, and Rooney is injured, and we shipped off James Wilson for some good-knows-why reason given LVG himself said Wilson was the reason we didn't buy a striker in the summer. It's luck.
Personally I just think the game has passed him by, and that his tactics don't work in the premier league, or possibly in today's elite-fitness times. And it's not getting better, it's getting worse.
There are mitigating circumstances - we might well 'win' the injury league for the 3rd season in a row (someone should seriously look into this, it's ridiculous). We put a lot of eggs in the Schweinsteiger basket and he'll basically have only played 3 months of the season. We didn't buy a defender presumably to let Phil Jones have his finally healthy season...and I'm not sure he's played more than 60 minutes all year. And as I've posted on here before, I don't believe any team in the modern game at the top level has churned through an entire squad in such a short space of time. Basically, we have 20/25 'new' players in our squad, in just 3 years.
But that doesn't excuse terrible substitutions, tactics that, after the first WHU semi-final had the players being quoted as saying : We had no idea where we were supposed to be playing, and a cautious first approach that has made actually watching us worse than at any point in my lifetime.
He seems to get a lot of credit for Rashford, but he's only there because Will Keane came on and tore his groin with his first shot, and Rooney is injured, and we shipped off James Wilson for some good-knows-why reason given LVG himself said Wilson was the reason we didn't buy a striker in the summer. It's luck.
Godotelli
Stroking Silva's Hair
FA Cup winners this year. Should save LVG 
Lukaku awful
Lukaku awful
YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
Martial and De Gea are sensational!
ss4_goku
Premier League
De Gea was really phenomenal as he has been all season...kept us in while we really didn't deserve to be in...
and Martial is great. Can't wait to see where this kid can become in the future.
and Martial is great. Can't wait to see where this kid can become in the future.
bebo
Looking for a Manager
You lots know who else is a having a phenomenon season RM's Navas. Think De Gea has a long stay @mutd . I'm sure Navas is much cheaper and earning less then De Gea.
bebo
Looking for a Manager
SAF said they would win it w/ a game or two to spare, but to win it at OT
gerd
Retired Footballer
By the way, i've heard on two seperate podcasts that Fellaini was very good against Everton.
In one podcast (The Times' football podcast) they were saying that LVG often plays Fellaini in a position or role where he is useless. It seemed the combination with Rooney worked very well.
Fellaini is a very peculiar who is not 'kind on the eye', but he can be very effective if you play him according to his strenghts...perhaps not a player United fans like to see, but nevertheless very usefull (just like in our national team, he should never be in the starting 11, but he scores loads of very important goals, he is our top scorer).
About that same match, this was a very good demonstration of the very poor first touch that Lukaku has. I still think he is overrated...he's has been linked with big clubs like Chelsea and United...IMO he is not a player for a big club...Everton is the maximum imo.
In one podcast (The Times' football podcast) they were saying that LVG often plays Fellaini in a position or role where he is useless. It seemed the combination with Rooney worked very well.
Fellaini is a very peculiar who is not 'kind on the eye', but he can be very effective if you play him according to his strenghts...perhaps not a player United fans like to see, but nevertheless very usefull (just like in our national team, he should never be in the starting 11, but he scores loads of very important goals, he is our top scorer).
About that same match, this was a very good demonstration of the very poor first touch that Lukaku has. I still think he is overrated...he's has been linked with big clubs like Chelsea and United...IMO he is not a player for a big club...Everton is the maximum imo.
Re: Fellaini - the issue is that he's at his most dangerous when given kind of a 'free' roll in the attacking third: go create mischief. And he's a nightmare to defend in that scenario. But, it means you have to sacrifice the rest of the team by getting someone else to his other responsibilities, and it forces a certain style.
If a team were built around him, he'd probably post some excellent numbers in the league, but that's just not what United should be doing. I hope he goes on to have a great career...somewhere else.
Re: Lukaku - his United audition didn't go particularly well did it? My thought is that he's overpriced now for what he is, but I'd love to have him for what Everton purchased him for. I think he has more goals than anyone bar Aguero in the past 3 seasons or something like that. Not too shabby. He also gives the option of going long, playing holdup and is still really young.
United need a CF next season, and if not Lukaku I don't really know who they go for. It needs to be someone immediately ready for the first XI in the premier league, that's a big risk for most imported players.
If a team were built around him, he'd probably post some excellent numbers in the league, but that's just not what United should be doing. I hope he goes on to have a great career...somewhere else.
Re: Lukaku - his United audition didn't go particularly well did it? My thought is that he's overpriced now for what he is, but I'd love to have him for what Everton purchased him for. I think he has more goals than anyone bar Aguero in the past 3 seasons or something like that. Not too shabby. He also gives the option of going long, playing holdup and is still really young.
United need a CF next season, and if not Lukaku I don't really know who they go for. It needs to be someone immediately ready for the first XI in the premier league, that's a big risk for most imported players.
gerd
Retired Footballer
Harry Kane? Although obviously i hope he stays with Spurs.
About Lukaku: he's hopeless in our national team...i prefer Origi, Batschuayi and (now) even Benteke (although even Benteke is not good he is very bad, there rarely is middle ground with him).
About Lukaku: he's hopeless in our national team...i prefer Origi, Batschuayi and (now) even Benteke (although even Benteke is not good he is very bad, there rarely is middle ground with him).
I kind of want Kane to stay at Spurs too - he's from there, has a great relationship with the club and is in a team doing well - no real reason to leave.
Guess there's a bit of a dearth of great strikers at the moment. Who knows what big Ed has in mind, might finally get his crush Cavani!
Guess there's a bit of a dearth of great strikers at the moment. Who knows what big Ed has in mind, might finally get his crush Cavani!
Godotelli
Stroking Silva's Hair
If Mourinho does join I could see something like
Conte might fancy playing 3 at the back (often if not always) so Azpilicueta might be open to getting back together with Mourinho, who prefers solid fullbacks
DDG/Navas/Butland
Azpilicueta Smalling Someone? Shaw
Schneiderlin Sanches
James* Rooney Martial
Ibrahimovic*
*or Griezmann
Azpilicueta Smalling Someone? Shaw
Schneiderlin Sanches
James* Rooney Martial
Ibrahimovic*
*or Griezmann
Conte might fancy playing 3 at the back (often if not always) so Azpilicueta might be open to getting back together with Mourinho, who prefers solid fullbacks
Aboutreika18
Too Black, Too Strong
- 5 September 2006
I've been impressed with Batshuayi whenever I've seen him play.
Definitely has the best football brain out of the four.
Godotelli
Stroking Silva's Hair
Wouldn't say top 4 is gone. A win for us now might do it but looking at the team it's probably unlikely.
Mark
il regista
- 8 August 2005
Atm it looks like City keeping our Champions League dreams alive.
Godotelli
Stroking Silva's Hair
Pellegrini trying to keep LVG in a job
bebo
Looking for a Manager
No party in your backyard 
take your blue balloons and t-shirts elsewhere
take your blue balloons and t-shirts elsewherehttp://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36188860
Manchester United manager Louis van Gaal says expectations at Old Trafford are "too high".
How bout this Louis, I'd like United to expect to finish above West Ham and Leicester, given our spend, players and profile. Is that too high for you?
I swear...that man must be a closet City plant/Liverpool fan.
Manchester United manager Louis van Gaal says expectations at Old Trafford are "too high".
How bout this Louis, I'd like United to expect to finish above West Ham and Leicester, given our spend, players and profile. Is that too high for you?
I swear...that man must be a closet City plant/Liverpool fan.
dplane
Big Kahuna Burger
The fact we can still claim the FA Cup and a spot in the CL this year is beyond bizarre. It truly has been a God awful season for the big clubs . at least one of the two shouldn't be too much to ask for poor little Louis I hope.