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Liverpool Thread

Re: Liverpool Thread

Liverpool need to show some cajones and let a few of the late tackles hit them, instead of pre-emptive rushed passes or avoidance. That should get a few of them sent off.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Shelvey has been just awful so far, I can't believe we don't have a better option than him in the bench. Where is Sahin btw ?
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

People still think Henderson and shelvey are good players?

Midtable players will keep you exactly where you are now...midtable.

How predictable are Liverpool under rodgers? Worrying.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Benni said:
People still think Henderson and shelvey are good players?

Midtable players will keep you exactly where you are now...midtable.

How predictable are Liverpool under rodgers? Worrying.
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Back to square one. 1 good game then the next one is crap, Suarez finishing was terrible, how he missed that chance just before Stoke scored their 3rd goal. Terrible defending for their 2nd goal, what was Gerrard/Agger doing by not marking Jones and leaving the near post empty.

Shelvey, my word, he needs a break.
Some of the shooting was atrocious.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

one step forward, two steps back.. we are midtable at best in may.

still we need to be patient, this is probably hardest job in football Rodgers has now.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

i mean Liverpool fans demand a lot, we all want something this team isn´t capable of YET. that´s why i mean hard job... especially becouse Rodgers will be compared with two previous coaches at the end of this season...I´m behind him, in football you have to lose obviously and this team has no identity atm and no leader, but i don´t know how our owners think of what´s ok for LFC , where is it ok to finish this season with this team...? Becouse if they think it´s 4th place, they are in dreamland.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

PIPA23 said:
one step forward, two steps back.. we are midtable at best in may.

still we need to be patient, this is probably hardest job in football Rodgers has now.
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Totally agreed, we are a midtable side. We will continue to win a few, lose a few, draw some. Continue to have great possession stats, miss chances, give up stupid goals, and end up somewhere between 8-12th spot. Our battle will be against the likes of Stoke and Swansea to get 8th spot at best. The way it's going, even Steve Clarke's West Brom will get 7th spot.

The more I watch our team and manager, I feel that Rodgers is not the man for the Liverpool job unless the goal is to finish in 7th or 8th spot every season.
He has some good ideas, but for me he is not experienced enough and will not get the patience required from the fans after this season, because this reconstruction job will take 3 years easily when he is trying to assemble a team in the image of Barca/Spain, and in the meanwhile we could end up wasting money (which I feel we already have done so on some players in the summer) and this could backfire badly. We don't need to become this long-term project to become the next Barca, it is not going to happen. Barca was a one-off, it's not going to happen again. They had some superb players all come through at the same time. Just like France had Clairefontaine prpducing a generation of great French talent and ended up dominating the world scene from 1998-2006, and now Spain and La Masia or whatever it's called has produced Barca/Spain's dominance from 2008 onwards. Trying to copy the same thing here is not going to work. Let's be honest, we need some Sheikh to come in and bankroll us if we want top-4. We have a great brand-name, worldwide support, it would be perfect. We could then get an experienced manager, good players and aim for top-4.

Until then, we'll be top-10 at best for years to come. Best case will be 6th or 7th spot if Rodgers is still around and he signs the right players which again I'm not convinced he will, because his system demands certain players and omits certain other players we could benefit from signing. For example: He does not believe in strikers, but wide players who can add goals.
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

Don't blame the manager if the players aren't good enough.
The defensewas supposed to be the best part of the team. Yesterday saw some shocking defense from Agger-Skrtel. I've always said that as a pair they are not good enough.

You can afford to have one central defender like that, but not both...

On the other hand: the posts are too pessimistic after one defeat. Stoke have a good team, they are playing very intelligent. And most of all Liverpool can learn something from Stoke: continuity. Give Rodgers the time that Pulis got at Stoke and in a few years time Liverpool will once again be where it belongs. This may well take 3 or 4 years.

The question is: do you guys have the patience to wait 3 or 4 years ?

That is imo Liverpool's Achilles heel: the expectations of the fans are unreasonable. Liverpool are a massive club, but things have changed in football. Liverpool lost touch with the top 4 in a period where the stakes have become higher (Abramovich and Mansour) and where there are new contenders for a top 4 place: Spurs, Everton. Suppose that Benitez whould have stayed and that Hicks and Gilette would never have happened to Liverpool, i doubt if they would have done better...
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

gerd said:
Don't blame the manager if the players aren't good enough.
The defensewas supposed to be the best part of the team. Yesterday saw some shocking defense from Agger-Skrtel. I've always said that as a pair they are not good enough.

You can afford to have one central defender like that, but not both...

On the other hand: the posts are too pessimistic after one defeat. Stoke have a good team, they are playing very intelligent. And most of all Liverpool can learn something from Stoke: continuity. Give Rodgers the time that Pulis got at Stoke and in a few years time Liverpool will once again be where it belongs. This may well take 3 or 4 years.

The question is: do you guys have the patience to wait 3 or 4 years ?

That is imo Liverpool's Achilles heel: the expectations of the fans are unreasonable. Liverpool are a massive club, but things have changed in football. Liverpool lost touch with the top 4 in a period where the stakes have become higher (Abramovich and Mansour) and where there are new contenders for a top 4 place: Spurs, Everton. Suppose that Benitez whould have stayed and that Hicks and Gilette would never have happened to Liverpool, i doubt if they would have done better...
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Gerd, the good managers though mould tactics around the team and not the other way round. You can't play like Barce if you have Stevenage players....isn't that obvious!?! The Barce/Spanish way only works when you have 11 players of the same ilk all singing from the same hymn sheet, Liverpool and generally English sides, do not have these such players in abundance unless you buy them all Citeh style. Spanish players are what they are, it's their DNA/coaching etc. You can't MAKE Allen Iniesta.

I think a lot of the time people forgot just how mentally tough these brilliant technical players are. Indeed to play a style akin to Barce relies on great mental strengths and discipline. Don't forget also that these players also have some fight in them, whereas I could name 5, 6, 7 Liverpool players who just don't have the heart when the battle gets tough.

Rodgers is enforcing a style of play that is counter productive and confusing with the players at his disposal, when all he has to do is start building a team, philosophy and tactics around Suarez. THEN...down the line...when confidence is bred and players know what they are doing can you start moulding the team into the shape of their choice. Rodgers won't budge in his philosophy, and maybe kudos to him, at least he'll fall his way.

But at the moment watching Skrtel play the ball to Agger, then back to Skrtel, then into Gerrard, then to Allen, then back to Agger, and back to Skrtel and meanwhile the Stoke players have put every touch under pressure until the ball is bobbling fifty times back to Reina with five Stoke players closing in on him at a rate of knots, who then punts it into touch, isn't inspiring...and certainly nervy stuff.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

DagsJT said:
I agree with Gerd. Patience is massively lacking these days in football.
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Youve only got to look at Villas-Boas and the Di Matteo at Chelsea.... Villas-Boas didnt have anywhere near enough time to develop "His" Chelsea so to speak and as for Di Matteo... you win the Champions League with a mixed up team from about 4 different managers and this is the way you are treated?
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

It wasn't Di Matteo that won the Cl for Chelsea, it was 70% Villas Boas.
Never think that the influence of a manager stops when he left the club.

Belgium got a great team in the 90's but very defensive. Then came a new coach, the former libero of that great team. He had played under Cruijff and he decided to play more offensive. After a 1-1 home against Luxemburg he was sacked and in came the old (more defensive minded) coach. Our national team went to the 1990 WC in Italy and (for once) were among the most attractive teams. They lost against England with that famous Platt goal, but that was the best team i saw (until now maybe). It was the mix between offensive football and a solid defense that did it. The influence of the sacked coach helped them.

Never underestimate the influence of managers/coaches that are gone...

About Rodgers: he has a clear vision and that is a good thing. The football he played with Swansea was not Barcelono style football, if you think that, you haven't watched good enough to both teams. As much as i like Swansea, they are not playing like Barcelona (under Laudrup the similarity is more obvious). Now give Rodgers the time to develop the team, to build his own team.
Most fans still think Liverpool is a team like Barcelona, Bayern Munich or Man Utd. They are in a different league. Nowadays Liverpool is a club like Ajax, Anderlecht, Lille, Bordeaux, Lazio.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Liverpool doesn`t look midtable , they look more and more like a Champion division side. I can`t believe my sons still support this imposters of the great Liverpool side I grown to see.

I don`t know how pool fans even cope with all that goes on nowadays. I must say much respect to those that keep believing ...walk on eh?
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

PIPA23 said:
Villa would be an amazing signing for us, even for a year or three...

he is ONLY 31, fit now...he is top class forward who could be our Miro Klose... Lazio fans know what i mean...

or even RVP, who is two years younger and who United didn´t wait a second to sign..

for this kind of players, age is not realy important.
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What is the point of bringing in Villa ? As I said many times, Liverpool have one of the worst squads in the whole PL, not in terms of quality but in terms of relation quality wages it has to be the worst squad in the PL.
What Liverpool needs to do is to buy young players, develope youngsters to be competitive in a few years, not bring short term players.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

bebo said:
Liverpool doesn`t look midtable , they look more and more like a Champion division side. I can`t believe my sons still support this imposters of the great Liverpool side I grown to see.

I don`t know how pool fans even cope with all that goes on nowadays. I must say much respect to those that keep believing ...walk on eh?
Click to expand...

They are called Fans. Fans support their team no matter what. Well, proper fans do.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

mathewsss said:
Totally agreed, we are a midtable side. We will continue to win a few, lose a few, draw some. Continue to have great possession stats, miss chances, give up stupid goals, and end up somewhere between 8-12th spot. Our battle will be against the likes of Stoke and Swansea to get 8th spot at best. The way it's going, even Steve Clarke's West Brom will get 7th spot.

The more I watch our team and manager, I feel that Rodgers is not the man for the Liverpool job unless the goal is to finish in 7th or 8th spot every season.
He has some good ideas, but for me he is not experienced enough and will not get the patience required from the fans after this season, because this reconstruction job will take 3 years easily when he is trying to assemble a team in the image of Barca/Spain, and in the meanwhile we could end up wasting money (which I feel we already have done so on some players in the summer) and this could backfire badly. We don't need to become this long-term project to become the next Barca, it is not going to happen. Barca was a one-off, it's not going to happen again. They had some superb players all come through at the same time. Just like France had Clairefontaine prpducing a generation of great French talent and ended up dominating the world scene from 1998-2006, and now Spain and La Masia or whatever it's called has produced Barca/Spain's dominance from 2008 onwards. Trying to copy the same thing here is not going to work. Let's be honest, we need some Sheikh to come in and bankroll us if we want top-4. We have a great brand-name, worldwide support, it would be perfect. We could then get an experienced manager, good players and aim for top-4.

Until then, we'll be top-10 at best for years to come. Best case will be 6th or 7th spot if Rodgers is still around and he signs the right players which again I'm not convinced he will, because his system demands certain players and omits certain other players we could benefit from signing. For example: He does not believe in strikers, but wide players who can add goals.
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Can't remember if I said it in here or elsewhere. This experience word is bullshit! Hodgson had experience. Dalglish had experience. Benitez had experience at Inter. Capello had experience. Trappatoni had experience.

Rodgers doesn't exactly have no experience does he? And he's getting more and more as the days and months go by. Hopefully learning to tinker thing son the way. He's been in the game for years. He's only been Liverpool manager for months. His philosophy is his philosophy. It's the correct one IMO. It will get there or thereabouts. He needs time and a few transfer windows to get the team HE believes can play they way he wants.

He has a lot more experience than the "experts" in here too.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Liverbird said:
What is the point of bringing in Villa ? As I said many times, Liverpool have one of the worst squads in the whole PL, not in terms of quality but in terms of relation quality wages it has to be the worst squad in the PL.
What Liverpool needs to do is to buy young players, develope youngsters to be competitive in a few years, not bring short term players.
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we need goals, Villa can score, no matter if it´s short term... why do you think United signed RVP who will be 30 soon? He will win them the league and is a player they didn´t have previous season, that´s why they didn´t won it as well in 2011-2012.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

PIPA23 said:
we need goals, Villa can score, no matter if it´s short term... why do you think United signed RVP who will be 30 soon? He will win them the league and is a player they didn´t have previous season, that´s why they didn´t won it as well in 2011-2012.
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and id rather villa to wigans di santo(is that how bad its got now that rodgers wants to buy championship level players?)

unless a big and i mean really big financial investment is put into liverpool im afraid to say they wont be a top team in england for a long time:COAT:
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

goalgerd said:
and id rather villa to wigans di santo(is that how bad its got now that rodgers wants to buy championship level players?)

unless a big and i mean really big financial investment is put into liverpool im afraid to say they wont be a top team in england for a long time:COAT:
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to be fair I would rather Di Santo than players like Borini, Downing, Henderson etc.

Dalglish was bringing in dross before Rodgers arrived - don't pin all blame on the new manager.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I don't think it's all Rodgers' fault. Of course Dalglish made a big mess wasting so much money on average players. Hodgson was even worse with his style of football.
And Rafa's final season in charge was a failure and his accumulation of debt through Aquilani's signing was not good.

All of that has contributed to the current position of the club.

I think Rodgers will be given the full season if we continue or improve the current form. The current form is midtable at best. We are on par at the moment with Swansea, Stoke. Not even close to Everton who look more of a force this season. Even West Brom look better under Clarke.

Yes sometimes getting an "experienced" coach does not work either.
But Rodgers talks too much compared to the results on the pitch. I have not been too impressed with his signings, and it is just my opinion that he is not the right man. I think FSG were very impressed with his one season at Swansea, which to be honest Laudrup has made Swansea look even better.
They also bought into his talk and the passing-style/tiki-taka which to be fair has not achieved much apart from one season at Swansea. Yes, one season in the top flight.

But if he does well over the next 6 months, fair play to him.
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

PIPA23 said:
we need goals, Villa can score, no matter if it´s short term... why do you think United signed RVP who will be 30 soon? He will win them the league and is a player they didn´t have previous season, that´s why they didn´t won it as well in 2011-2012.
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Totally different case. Manchester are in position of winning things. Liverpool with or without Villa aint.
Anyway I dont think Manchester needed RVP but that is anoter discussion.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

read this earlier

Liverpool haven't learnt a f**king thing - spending grossly exorbitant amounts on distinctly average or below average players and continue to be linked with the same for ridiculous transfer fees.

We could have had the Newcastle scouting department for £1m instead and I am sure they would have found a player twice as good as Joe Allen for half or even a third of the price. Let's not even start on Carroll, Henderson, Downing and Borini. Some comparisons below

Carroll - £35m vs. Aguero (£37m) or Huntelaar who left Real for £17m
Downing - £19m vs. Cazorla (£16m), Mata (£23m)
Allen - £15m vs. Cabaye - £3m (I rate Cabaye higher) or Dembele - £15m
Henderson - £20m - he is in his own league with that one (that is no compliment)
Borini - £10-12m vs. Michu (£2m) or Ba (who has a release clause for £7m)

Liverpool seriously need to sack the entire team who negotiates these transfers and scouts these players. It is shambolic that whilst spending north of £200m in three seasons, we had a team that could compete for the Champions League and were in it regularly and have turned that into a mid-table team AFTER spending £200m spend (who does that?), you may say what about the players we sold, that is irrelevant. The gulf in class between Suarez and the rest of the team is evident (shame we will lose him next summer), the misery is only compounded with the imminent signing of another overpaid British player who has not achieved anything and isn't all that good.

Future, future, future - how many 5 year plans will it take? It's been 21 years, the club is becoming a laughing stock. Under Benitez we had 4 of the back 5 that played yesterday and have been playing most of the season and they barely shipped any goals, what's happened to the defending with these same players under Rodgers? Let's not even start with the attack.

2008-2009 - We achieved 86 points
2012-2013 - 25 points after half the games - after spending £200m + since that season, and 3 managers. Seriously - WTF.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

goalgerd said:
Carroll - £35m vs. Aguero (£37m) or Huntelaar who left Real for £17m
Downing - £19m vs. Cazorla (£16m), Mata (£23m)
Allen - £15m vs. Cabaye - £3m (I rate Cabaye higher) or Dembele - £15m
Henderson - £20m - he is in his own league with that one (that is no compliment)
Borini - £10-12m vs. Michu (£2m) or Ba (who has a release clause for £7m)
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when will people realise that you can´t buy everything you WANT but what you CAN afford to pay?... OK there can be bought bargains, but we can´t afford to pay world stars for our sallary structure, we could buy them, but it doesn´t end there....
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

PIPA23 said:
when will people realise that you can´t buy everything you WANT but what you CAN afford to pay?... OK there can be bought bargains, but we can´t afford to pay world stars for our sallary structure, we could buy them, but it doesn´t end there....
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dont shoot the messenger.... the only player on that list that would hurt liverpools wage structure would be aguero's,i think arsenal and spurs wage structure is tighter than liverpools so every other player on that list is fair game. the writer does bring up some interesting points about money being wasted every window. surely it cant be that hard to spot real talent and bring them in at a reasonable price,even the most casual football manager player could come up with a list of players better than the players liverpool have brought in
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

PIPA23 said:
when will people realise that you can´t buy everything you WANT but what you CAN afford to pay?... OK there can be bought bargains, but we can´t afford to pay world stars for our sallary structure, we could buy them, but it doesn´t end there....
Click to expand...

Swansea buy better than Liverpool every season...they aren't a 'big team' who can have who they want.

Just admit it PIPA, your scouting department is awful.

goalgerd said:
read this earlier

Liverpool haven't learnt a f**king thing - spending grossly exorbitant amounts on distinctly average or below average players and continue to be linked with the same for ridiculous transfer fees.

We could have had the Newcastle scouting department for £1m instead and I am sure they would have found a player twice as good as Joe Allen for half or even a third of the price. Let's not even start on Carroll, Henderson, Downing and Borini. Some comparisons below

Carroll - £35m vs. Aguero (£37m) or Huntelaar who left Real for £17m
Downing - £19m vs. Cazorla (£16m), Mata (£23m)
Allen - £15m vs. Cabaye - £3m (I rate Cabaye higher) or Dembele - £15m
Henderson - £20m - he is in his own league with that one (that is no compliment)
Borini - £10-12m vs. Michu (£2m) or Ba (who has a release clause for £7m)

Liverpool seriously need to sack the entire team who negotiates these transfers and scouts these players. It is shambolic that whilst spending north of £200m in three seasons, we had a team that could compete for the Champions League and were in it regularly and have turned that into a mid-table team AFTER spending £200m spend (who does that?), you may say what about the players we sold, that is irrelevant. The gulf in class between Suarez and the rest of the team is evident (shame we will lose him next summer), the misery is only compounded with the imminent signing of another overpaid British player who has not achieved anything and isn't all that good.

Future, future, future - how many 5 year plans will it take? It's been 21 years, the club is becoming a laughing stock. Under Benitez we had 4 of the back 5 that played yesterday and have been playing most of the season and they barely shipped any goals, what's happened to the defending with these same players under Rodgers? Let's not even start with the attack.

2008-2009 - We achieved 86 points
2012-2013 - 25 points after half the games - after spending £200m + since that season, and 3 managers. Seriously - WTF.
Click to expand...

good post, at last some realism from a Liverpool supporter - very refreshing.

Some need to realise that Skrtel and Agger are VERY overrated by Liverpool supporters. The 2 centre backs get bullied very easily. Even RAWK has woken up to this now over last few days.

PIPA will tell us Skrtel is world class though :P
 
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