Liverpool Thread

[Liverbird]

Re: Liverpool Thread

when will people realise that you can´t buy everything you WANT but what you CAN afford to pay?... OK there can be bought bargains, but we can´t afford to pay world stars for our sallary structure, we could buy them, but it doesn´t end there....

Arent you tired to always repeat that ? Liverpool scout team is a joke and has been dismantled after Benitez was sacked.
And so you can end with that argument, that Im tired to hear. Both bigger and lower teams make better transfers on the market than Liverpool.

 

[EatonTJ]

Re: Liverpool Thread

About Rodgers: he has a clear vision and that is a good thing. The football he played with Swansea was not Barcelono style football, if you think that, you haven't watched good enough to both teams. As much as i like Swansea, they are not playing like Barcelona (under Laudrup the similarity is more obvious). Now give Rodgers the time to develop the team, to build his own team.
Most fans still think Liverpool is a team like Barcelona, Bayern Munich or Man Utd. They are in a different league. Nowadays Liverpool is a club like Ajax, Anderlecht, Lille, Bordeaux, Lazio.

Totally agree with Gerd on this point. And further:

1. Rodgers is trying to instill an identity for the club by establishing a certain attractive style of play. While it's obvious to all that the current players aren't all suited for the style, Rodgers has no choice but to start somewhere. The only way to teach the team how to pass their way out of trouble is to have them start doing it.

2. Manchester United, Manchester City, and Chelsea can buy just about whomever they wish every season to instantly cover any flaws in their squads. Liverpool can't. Obviously, Liverpool are attempting to do what Arsenal and Tottenham have done the last few seasons and challenge for the top spots using less expensive talent (either homegrown players, or riskier buys of less proven talent that later come good, etc.) This approach takes time, and if you want to really do it right it has to start with a consistent style of play starting at the youth levels of the club. In my opinion, Liverpool are far more likely to re-establish itself as a club challenging for top honors by emulating a club like Ajax as closely as possible. Become the best club for training and playing young English/British talent and go after the richest clubs only weakness, which is the nearly impossible difficulty of getting playing time for their youth players.

 

[PIPA23]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Swansea buy better than Liverpool every season...they aren't a 'big team' who can have who they want.

Just admit it PIPA, your scouting department is awful.



good post, at last some realism from a Liverpool supporter - very refreshing.

Some need to realise that Skrtel and Agger are VERY overrated by Liverpool supporters. The 2 centre backs get bullied very easily. Even RAWK has woken up to this now over last few days.

PIPA will tell us Skrtel is world class though

man you are a troll...i won´t feed you with a responce, it´s useless.

 

[Liverbird]

Re: Liverpool Thread

man you are a troll...i won´t feed you with a responce, it´s useless.

I completely agree with him. Agger and Skrtel are way overrated. Agger is still a good player, but Skrtel is mediocre at best.

 

[mathewsss]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Rodgers deserves the full season at the minimum. FSG went after him as their choice to start something new at Anfield. Whether he was the best available choice is up for debate, and we will find out at least by the end of this season whether Rodgers is the man or not.

In the end it's a result business. Liverpool have 25 pts halfway through the season, having played all teams once. Since they started with the toughest teams in the infancy of his reigh, it will be more interesting to see how Rodgers manages this team in the next 6 months.

Surely he needs to get the team a bit more organized defensively, and also add some steel in midfield, and some tooth in attack. These are the basic things required for any kind of success. A good experienced coach would have gone for this instead of jumping the "tiki-taka" road as the first priority which is my biggest concern about Rodgers lack of experience. Also see how he has prioritized ex-Chelsea/Swansea players for transfers.

So let's see how it goes in the summer when a better judgment can be made.

 

[PIPA23]

Re: Liverpool Thread

I completely agree with him. Agger and Skrtel are way overrated. Agger is still a good player, but Skrtel is mediocre at best.

obviously he is, that´s why he is a starter for the club four years now and signed a new long term contract in august..

but those who play him know less about football than you do

 

[PIPA23]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Also see how he has prioritized ex-Chelsea/Swansea players for transfers.

Many coaches, if they sign with a new team try to sign players they worked with and they know personally..I could give you many examples..but i´m sure you agree..

Besides he wanted to sign also Dempsey or Sigurdsson, but he didn´t want to overpay and i think he was right to not overpay for them in the end, previous coaches did many mistakes with this already..

 

[Benni]

Re: Liverpool Thread

obviously he is, that´s why he is a starter for the club four years now and signed a new long term contract in august..

but those who play him know less about football than you do

And where have Liverpool finished in league last 4 seasons?

No player is irreplaceable apart from Messi and Ronaldo.

 

[YoungGun_UK]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Totally agree with Gerd on this point. And further:

1. Rodgers is trying to instill an identity for the club by establishing a certain attractive style of play. While it's obvious to all that the current players aren't all suited for the style, Rodgers has no choice but to start somewhere. The only way to teach the team how to pass their way out of trouble is to have them start doing it.

2. Manchester United, Manchester City, and Chelsea can buy just about whomever they wish every season to instantly cover any flaws in their squads. Liverpool can't. Obviously, Liverpool are attempting to do what Arsenal and Tottenham have done the last few seasons and challenge for the top spots using less expensive talent (either homegrown players, or riskier buys of less proven talent that later come good, etc.) This approach takes time, and if you want to really do it right it has to start with a consistent style of play starting at the youth levels of the club. In my opinion, Liverpool are far more likely to re-establish itself as a club challenging for top honors by emulating a club like Ajax as closely as possible. Become the best club for training and playing young English/British talent and go after the richest clubs only weakness, which is the nearly impossible difficulty of getting playing time for their youth players.

Not sure how Manchester United got lumped into that category, especially since Liverpool probably spend the most after the two sugar daddies.

United spent 22M to get Van Persie, you spent 35M to get Carroll, I just think we use our money better than you. #Value.

 

[PIPA23]

Re: Liverpool Thread

United spent 22M to get Van Persie, you spent 35M to get Carroll, I just think we use our money better than you. #Value.

Totally different circumstances, players and club situations.

It was money bad spend, but most of all a massive risk, sometimes they end up well though (Rooney)...

 

[goalgerd]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Totally different circumstances, players and club situations.

It was money bad spend, but most of all a massive risk, sometimes they end up well though (Rooney)...

Rooney wasnt a risk for united, he was one of the stars of euro 2004 before they signed him

 

[gerd]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Rooney wasnt a risk for united, he was one of the stars of euro 2004 before they signed him

Every transfer is a risk. A player can get injured...
Concerning Rooney: do you really think Man Utd got what they hoped to get out of him ? I don't think so. If they are being honest, they thought he would end up being a better player...I'm not saying he isn't being one of the 20 best players in the world, but i'm pretty sure everybody thought he would end up being a player like Messi turned out...

I completely agree with Eatonj. Liverpool should do it the way Ajax (and Barcelona, but that is an example that provokes irrealistic expectations) do it. Having a very specific play style and let all the teams play like that.

This takes time. Don't expect miracles from Rodgers in one or two seasons.

About Skrtel. Pipa you are blind. The argument that the people who have bought him know more about football than we do, is a very poor argument. Transferring players is not like positive science. You win some and you loose some. Skrtel is a no nonsense defender who hasn't got much ability. Big clubs need defenders who can play football. Skrtel has rudimentary football skills and even defensive he makes lots of mistake (Stoke City for example). He is an average defender... Liverpool should aim for better players.

 

[Benni]

Re: Liverpool Thread

the problem for Liverpool FC is that their own supporters put up with average players these days and hype them up to levels they simply don't play at.

These are the sort of comments that I am talking about (taken from Liverpool's busiest supporter forum RAWK)

Agger Skrtel partenership is currently one of the best CB partnership in the world and easily the best CB partnership in premier league based on form... I cant think of anyother partnerships better than this one in premier league...

Is there a more complete CB partnership in Europe? They are not only good defenders, they both are excellent on the ball, have pace and can score the occasional goal. I wouldn't swap em for any other pairing. Not even Subotic and Hummels.

These comments are full of delusion. But unforunately I know many Liverpool supporters who truely believe their players are amongst some of the best in the league i.e. Johnson is best right back in the league, Skrtel & Agger best centre backs in league, Suarez best striker etc)

When it becomes acceptable to have average players starting every game, you have big problems as a football club. Liverpool are a huge name in football but no longer have good enough players or good enough coaching staff (in my opinion) to compete with the best sides.

I like Rodgers but have been digging deep on the man (his history, methods etc) and I am starting to think he's a bit of out of his depth as manager of Liverpool Football Club. BUT yes he does need time to prove doubters like me wrong.

My worry is that he doesn't utilize the players he already has there - he is hell bent on playing this tiki taka Barcelona way which simply isnt working for Liverpool.

KEEPING THE BALL DOESN'T WIN GAMES! Defending properly and scoring goals wins football matches. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

 

[PIPA23]

Re: Liverpool Thread

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...l-fc-flop-to-defeat-at-stoke-100252-32510302/

 

[PIPA23]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Liverpool should aim for better players.

OMG i feel i talk to children sometimes....how can they aim for better players or already proven world stars in thier current position...?! We can aim for better players or BEST players if we are in the position for Champions Leauge, or if we are supported by multi rich owners...

Rafa had to buy second class or second, third options for what he wanted all the time and Rodgers barely bought what HE want´s here at the club for money that has been approved after the massive fiasco´s in near past.

I´m not saying this or that current LFC player is best in the league (Benni you should realy stop applying what you read on RAWK to all the fans...), I´m saying we have this players to work with and a manager who had a half season and we won´t probably buy anyone, we have to get what we can with this bunch and build for the future to avoid Carroll´s or Downing´s or Cole´s in future...

You guys come here and write what better players there are for the same money we already spended...but it´s useless becouse there is something called COMPETITION among football teams, if we want something, that means also other teams want and they can afford it much more and attract more than us in many cases... You act as if you were some scouts that we should long time have appointed... But life sometimes is more complicated than football manager games...

You mention Swansea as better team than Liverpool or at same level atm, but when i say Rodgers did that Swansea team, you say it was Martínez who achieved that You are silly saing this, as Rodgers made them play the way they did for two years. As for Michu, nobody realy knew that guy and the reason he signed for Swansea is Laudrup who had some types of players that he knew from Spanish league, lucky for him he turned out fantastic.. But it doesn´t mean now that all 2mil. signings can spark the premier league, it was luck for the player and manager that he adapted well in new league and team. But the team foundations of play were also Rodger´s work...you can´t deny it.

One thing that worries me about Rodgers is that the fans will turn against him, becouse the majority of LFC fans are not patient enough and want success at all causes, but...the reason why Rodgers was apointed is to build a future LFC team more than manage current one...we shall see it by getting rid of some underperformers soon and buying more young players that are promisses of better future LFC.

 

[gerd]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Pipa, you have to learn to communicate better. You start your post with a quote from me and then you make a point towards other posters. I never ever said that it was martinez who made Swansea...
And about buying players: Liverpool can't buy players like Messi, Ronaldo, Zlatan, Rooney, Silva...but they can buy players that are future greats. A good transfer is an investment in the future. It is not about how a player is now, but in the future...

Liverpool still has a huge appeal and there are hunderds of players who would do everything to play for Liverpool. If Swansea can buy Michu and Aston Villa Benteke, why can't Liverpool these kind of players (can give you other examples: Everton Fellaini, Fulham Dempsey and Dembele,...).

 

[PIPA23]

Re: Liverpool Thread

What did you knew about Michu before he made himself famous in Swansea team? nothing i bet. As well others knew nothing...

If Rodgers bought Michu before Swansea let´s say, many would talk wtf is he doing + especially if Michu failed...people would talk about buing medicore spain players etc...

Benteke scored against us but realy is he the player that should be playing in LFC right now? we have Borini who will return from injury soon..

We have players in the team right now, who can become as good as those you mentioned in time..

 

[aitken]

Re: Liverpool Thread

What did you knew about Michu before he made himself famous in Swansea team? nothing i bet. As well others knew nothing...

Depends, i knew quite alot about him even before he was linked to swansea as i don't blindly follow epl, as bbva is more enjoyable to watch on all fronts. Rodgers did get a steal for £2 million, thing was though, when rodgers came to liverpool in the summer, there wasn't the same fund's for him as there was for previous liverpool manager, even though they did spend a bit on allen, if he can get the right player's around him in the way he want's to build a team, allen will prove to be a excellent buy in long term basis. I personally don't expect liverpool to be finishing top 5/6 this season as they really need to give patience and time for the team to come together, players to come in, players to go out, then if they do stick for next 2/3 year's, i think then you will really see the benefits of it.

 

[gerd]

Re: Liverpool Thread

What did you knew about Michu before he made himself famous in Swansea team? nothing i bet. As well others knew nothing...

If Rodgers bought Michu before Swansea let´s say, many would talk wtf is he doing + especially if Michu failed...people would talk about buing medicore spain players etc...

Benteke scored against us but realy is he the player that should be playing in LFC right now? we have Borini who will return from injury soon..

We have players in the team right now, who can become as good as those you mentioned in time..

Exasperated and trying to stay polite...
I confess: i knew nothing about Michu, but i'm not a football scout. It is not my job to know Michu and other players...but that was not my point.
All the players i mentioned are merely examples.
Please try to remember: you were talking about star players, i was just saying that transfers are about future stars. You don't even see my point, because you are extremely biased.
Let's hope that among the players Liverpool transferred there are some future stars, but some of them (Coates, Sahin) never play...it seems as if your manager himself doesn't see much future stars (apart from Sterling it seems...).

The point is that Liverpool made some disastrous transfers the last years... the point is that Liverpool made much more bad transfers than good ones...

Buying a new player is always a gamble, and clubs can have bad luck with players, but if it seems that a club is unlucky with most transfers, then there is something wrong with the transfer policy. I think most neutrals will agree with me that Liverpool's transfer policy the last years wasn't the best one. I even think many fans will agree with me...

 

[PIPA23]

Re: Liverpool Thread

The point is that Liverpool made some disastrous transfers the last years... the point is that Liverpool made much more bad transfers than good ones...

Right, what means last years? Did Arsenal for example made better transfers last years?! Not winning anything for past 7 seasons? Did LFC made worse winning 3 or 4 more trophys than them over 7 past seasons? Of course Arsenal are a CL team but the difference and the final result are something you have to look for... The difference between Arsenal and LFC is though that our fans always expect return of glory days of CL finals and titles, while Arsenal probably are happy now with fourth place to qualify for the CL...over a cup win maybe..

Also, when will you draw a line between the previous owners and coaches and current coach and owners? Becouse the new suposed regime only works half year now...of course there won´t be a brand new LFC magnificent chainge over a half year, you need more time than that.

And off course we did stupid transfers from today´s perspective, that´s why i don´t even know if Rodgers is here to win more than to stabilise things in the spending area... becouse i bet the owners would want to save money atm.

Are we still going to argue about the transfer policy and other over discoused things?

I don´t know what we are talking about anymore... one is saying players are shite, players like Borini who played only five games for the club and who is 21 is shite obviously not scoring hattricks in that 5 games etc...people here are sometimes saying stuff i don´t want to read anymore, it´s so stupid..

EDIT: we won 5 trophys since 2005, Arsenal won 1, despite making much biger transfers imo, in and out.

 

[DagsJT]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Tancredi Palmeri ‏@tancredipalmeri
Liverpool contacted Lazio for defender Diakitè according to Sky Italy
Retweeted by Tony Barrett

 

[aitken]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Nice, interesting buy and gives them a bit more depth on defence, potential starter, I'm interested in to see liverpools activity for the next month.

 

[gomito#10]

Diakate!?!? Hmm not sure about that one

 

[Sabatasso]

Re: Liverpool Thread

EDIT: we won 5 trophys since 2005, Arsenal won 1, despite making much biger transfers imo, in and out.

Long live the biasedness, right?

Arsenal is one of the few clubs in the league that sells for more than they buy, Liverpool on the other hand buy for twice as much as they sell for. LFC in addition have made quite a lot of big spending flops lately, and although it might sting to admit it doesn't make it less true.

I'd also like to add that I am personally not one of those who thinks young players are initially a bad investment, many of LFC's latest buys can very well turn out great in the future. Carroll on the other hand was a flop of legendary status.

PS: Note that I am a Spurs fan, and have nothing to gain from defending gunners in this discussion.

 

[gerd]

Re: Liverpool Thread

As a Spurs fan i also think Arsenal does much better than Liverpool.
I think the Liverpool would be very happy to swap a League Cup win for a yearly CL place...
IMO Arsenal are still a regular top team while Liverpool clearly have lost touch, they are a midtable team.

 

[DagsJT]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Hmm, Tancredi Palmeri also saying we've contacted Wesley Sneijder.

 

[ccshopland]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Have to agree with all those who say Agger and Skrtel are over-rated. WAY, WAY over-rated. When City came in for a Agger in the Summer I'd have sold him for half that amount. One of my mates just won't have it and thinks they are two of the leagues best defenders. Nice footballers on the ball, maybe. Defenders, certainly not any more.

Liverpool also have this nasty habbit of leaving the opposition come right to the eighteen yard box before engaging. With the balls as they are these days, and players comfortable with shooting from range it's a recipe for disaster especially as Reina is looking shaky.

I'm a realist I like to think. I personally don't think Liverpool are a mid table team, I think we're about a 5/6 placed team at the moment. I'm also a realist as to the length of time you give a manager. My problem with Rodgers is that we have ready made tactics which he could use right now but chooses instead to see out his 'possession football' project. Liverpool are at their best counter attacking, giving Suarez space to work with. Play a fast, direct counter attacking game with less possession and invite teams onto US, we'll be better served playing this way.

On the transfer policy, we MUST learn from our mistakes of fudging the transfer target for two or three mediocre players. If you want your man, get your man! Pay the asking price, stop bitching about small details, and get your world class player. It's been proven time and time again with Liverpool that our networking and negotiation skills in deals are a laughing stock.

 

[gerd]

Re: Liverpool Thread

If Liverpool are a 5/6 team, that would mean that only the following teams are better: Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and maybe Spurs...So Liverpool is without a doubt better than Everton ?
Are you sure that Liverpool is better than WBA and Newcastle (yes Newcastle: Newcastle full strength that is with Cabaye, Ben Arfa and Tioté).
Are you sure that Liverpool is bettet than Stoke ?

I 'm not saying all those teams (except Everton) are stronger than Liverpool, i'm just saying that there are as much arguments to say that Liverpool is a team that should end 10th than 6th... For me that is midtable.

A massive club like Liverpool should do much better and it would IMO be a very good thing for English football if Liverpool could compete again for the title. Football needs a masdsive club like Liverpool to become stronger.

 

[ccshopland]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Even those mentioned Gerd are still inconsistent. The Premier League standard is poor in comparison to previous years I believe. United ship goals left right and centre, City are shaky more so because of dressing room egos. Chelsea I have been impressed with lately. Arsenal are hit or miss, at 3-3 yesterday they could have gone on to lose that. Spurs, well, I think they're a one man band to be honest.

I just believe if Liverpool can get it together and find a semblance of consistency, then they can get into that elite pack again. They definitely need a striker alongside Suarez. In one swift move that would be massive step to closing the gap. The guy needs some help. What needs to be instilled into the players is this need to fight it out in games, you know, those games where things aren't going your way, pretty football isn't working, and you just need to find that magic and hold on and eek out a result. United are masters at it.

There is no denying though that Liverpool's signings going back ten years or so has been astoundingly bad. Absolutely astounding. You could put a top fifty together of the Premier League's worst signings and I could probably fill forty of them with Reds players.

 

[PIPA23]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Luis, Luis, Luis is on fire...