YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
Re: Liverpool Thread
Carragher is definitely past it. I don't think he would start if everyone was fit though.
Carragher is definitely past it. I don't think he would start if everyone was fit though.
Liverpool Thread
- Thread starter Misfit
- Start date
dev_don
League 1
- 12 November 2005
Re: Liverpool Thread
Liverpool Crisis Hour on talksport - woo hoo!
http://utv-talksportUK.wm.llnwd.net/utv_talksportUK?.wma
Liverpool Crisis Hour on talksport - woo hoo!
http://utv-talksportUK.wm.llnwd.net/utv_talksportUK?.wma
Tarasikk
You'll never walk alone
Re: Liverpool Thread
What about RAFA? Kick him or no?
What about RAFA? Kick him or no?
D
DagsJT
Guest
Re: Liverpool Thread
Nope.
Nope.
Jumbo_
-
Re: Liverpool Thread
No keep him. It's all the American's fault
No keep him. It's all the American's fault
RuneEdge
Silent Assassin
- 1 October 2003
- Team
- Manchester United
Re: Liverpool Thread
Rafa is tactically one of the best managers around. He might not be consistant with his performances, or able to handle pressure or even mind games, but he's able to humble even the strongest teams on the pitch with his tactics. Instead of replacing him, the smart thing would be to get a new number two to work alongside him. Someone who excels in the areas Rafa is bad in.
Rafa is tactically one of the best managers around. He might not be consistant with his performances, or able to handle pressure or even mind games, but he's able to humble even the strongest teams on the pitch with his tactics. Instead of replacing him, the smart thing would be to get a new number two to work alongside him. Someone who excels in the areas Rafa is bad in.
Re: Liverpool Thread
I agree with RuneEdge. Someone who excels in the areas Rafa is not so good in. With mind games, I would have to go for Kenny Dalglish as Rafa's behind-the-scenes man. Fergie never got the better of him in that area.
A lot of the unrest seems to be caused by backroom anxieties - particularly as we let two Yanks buy our "franchise" (their words) borrowing money against the club - and therefore Rafa has had to work tiny miracles to get certain players in. Remember how long it took to replace the dross Houllier left and consider that any new manager would no doubt, want to create his own team, then to sack Rafa would be the wrong option. Anyway, Liverpool are not, for the most part, a sacking club or likely to push the panic button due to a four game losing streak, despite what the media might want.
In other news, Fergie says Rooney might not make Sunday. Take it he's a cert to play then.
I agree with RuneEdge. Someone who excels in the areas Rafa is not so good in. With mind games, I would have to go for Kenny Dalglish as Rafa's behind-the-scenes man. Fergie never got the better of him in that area.
A lot of the unrest seems to be caused by backroom anxieties - particularly as we let two Yanks buy our "franchise" (their words) borrowing money against the club - and therefore Rafa has had to work tiny miracles to get certain players in. Remember how long it took to replace the dross Houllier left and consider that any new manager would no doubt, want to create his own team, then to sack Rafa would be the wrong option. Anyway, Liverpool are not, for the most part, a sacking club or likely to push the panic button due to a four game losing streak, despite what the media might want.
In other news, Fergie says Rooney might not make Sunday. Take it he's a cert to play then.
Liverbird
Omar Comin Yo
- 24 July 2009
Re: Liverpool Thread
No way Spalleti is better than Rafa. His methods injured a lot of romans players, he didnt care about his players (Aquilani for example).
Liverbird
Omar Comin Yo
- 24 July 2009
Re: Liverpool Thread
Glad Torres and Glen are playing.
Glad Torres and Glen are playing.
Tarasikk
You'll never walk alone
Re: Liverpool Thread
I agree with RuneEdge too.
I agree with RuneEdge too.
Vannizzlefashizzal
TWENTYTIMES!!!!
- 31 October 2002
Re: Liverpool Thread
I think rafa's done the old jedi mind trick on you lot,
cos errm I think the 2005 Champs League team had alot of Houlliers "dross"...
2005 FFS!! (we only had 15 titles then)
so this tactical genius has had 4 years to "create his own team"...
lucas and spearing please stand up!
I think rafa's done the old jedi mind trick on you lot,
cos errm I think the 2005 Champs League team had alot of Houlliers "dross"...
2005 FFS!! (we only had 15 titles then)
so this tactical genius has had 4 years to "create his own team"...
lucas and spearing please stand up!
Re: Liverpool Thread
Out of Benitez, Ferguson and Wenger, who was the quickest to 200 premiership wins? Errr Senior Benitez, thats who.
4 years isnt a long time.
Your also forgetting we got to ANOTHER CL final with Benitez's TEAM. People always forget that.
Out of Benitez, Ferguson and Wenger, who was the quickest to 200 premiership wins? Errr Senior Benitez, thats who.
4 years isnt a long time.
Your also forgetting we got to ANOTHER CL final with Benitez's TEAM. People always forget that.
Vannizzlefashizzal
TWENTYTIMES!!!!
- 31 October 2002
Vannizzlefashizzal
TWENTYTIMES!!!!
- 31 October 2002
Re: Liverpool Thread
your also forgetting him finishing in 5th place behind everton...
your also forgetting him finishing in 5th place behind everton...
Re: Liverpool Thread
that was in his first year, with the old squad...He also won a CL if i remember rightly.
that was in his first year, with the old squad...He also won a CL if i remember rightly.
Vannizzlefashizzal
TWENTYTIMES!!!!
- 31 October 2002
Jumbo_
-
Re: Liverpool Thread
Come on Van, we all know this is nothing to do with Rafa and the American's are entirely to blame.
Come on Van, we all know this is nothing to do with Rafa and the American's are entirely to blame.
Vannizzlefashizzal
TWENTYTIMES!!!!
- 31 October 2002
matherto
20 times 20 times Man United
Re: Liverpool Thread
Do you mean 100 wins?
He'd have to win 50 times in one season for four seasons to do 200...
Do you mean 100 wins?
He'd have to win 50 times in one season for four seasons to do 200...
Vannizzlefashizzal
TWENTYTIMES!!!!
- 31 October 2002
Re: Liverpool Thread
World class? well thats subjective so i'll leave that one
and whether anyone else would do better remains to be seen...
but I doubt many would get that much time after making so many blatant mistakes...
World class? well thats subjective so i'll leave that one
and whether anyone else would do better remains to be seen...
but I doubt many would get that much time after making so many blatant mistakes...
Last edited:
Re: Liverpool Thread
...and how long did it take Fegie? 5 years I believe. Argument over.
Aboutreika18
Too Black, Too Strong
- 5 September 2006
Re: Liverpool Thread
Keep Rafa At Pool
Keep Rafa At Pool
Vannizzlefashizzal
TWENTYTIMES!!!!
- 31 October 2002
Re: Liverpool Thread
wow, ya reaching now...
rafa inherited a team that pretty much got to and won The Champs League...
The team SAF inherited in 86' doesnt compare...
wow, ya reaching now...
rafa inherited a team that pretty much got to and won The Champs League...
The team SAF inherited in 86' doesnt compare...
Last edited:
Jumbo_
-
Re: Liverpool Thread
Yeah lets not start all this again.
Rafa's problems seem to be man-management (getting the best out of players, keeping everyone happy etc), transfers and he hasn't always done so well with the media. Obviously there are exceptions to that (Torres) but in general this is where he has struggled. You guys have got more professional players on your books than anyone else in the country, yet hardly any of them are good enough to play in the team. That's gotta say something to you!!
What Jermain Pennant said in that interview about Benitez neutering players I actually agree with. He does sound a bit bitter about his time at Liverpool but then again, I can understand why. For a good example of this, look at Ryan Babel. He was meant to be one of the hottest prospects in Europe and has shown glimpses of that for you, and regularly plays well for Holland, but when he puts on a Liverpool shirt, more often than not he looks average at best.
Maybe Rafa has a problem with sort of traditional wingers with flair, I mean I can't think of one who has played at 'Pool in his time and done well?
Babel, no. Riera, no. Gonzalez, no. Pennant, no. Kewell, no. Leto, no. El Zhar, no. Zenden, no.
Then there's the various other younger lads who have either come and gone or are still not looking any closer to getting in the first team. The only one who's done well is Benayoun and he isn't really a winger. The fact that when Torres is out, Rafa would still rather leave Kuyt on the wing than put him in his natural forward position is strange to me.
Tactically he seems to like his players very disciplined (with the exception of Gerrard now, and possibly Johnson) and maybe this ideology he holds, combined with the not so great man management is what is causing the problem. I know some managers dont like being too friendly with their players and there is nothing wrong with that if it works, but I seriously think Rafa has some issues here. If what Torres put in his book about when he announced he was having a baby is true then that's really bad (and why would he lie?).
That said, it's obvious he's a very capable manager and like you say there aren't that many available who could do better, and it would mean starting over and a serious clear out.
Yeah lets not start all this again.
Rafa's problems seem to be man-management (getting the best out of players, keeping everyone happy etc), transfers and he hasn't always done so well with the media. Obviously there are exceptions to that (Torres) but in general this is where he has struggled. You guys have got more professional players on your books than anyone else in the country, yet hardly any of them are good enough to play in the team. That's gotta say something to you!!
What Jermain Pennant said in that interview about Benitez neutering players I actually agree with. He does sound a bit bitter about his time at Liverpool but then again, I can understand why. For a good example of this, look at Ryan Babel. He was meant to be one of the hottest prospects in Europe and has shown glimpses of that for you, and regularly plays well for Holland, but when he puts on a Liverpool shirt, more often than not he looks average at best.
Maybe Rafa has a problem with sort of traditional wingers with flair, I mean I can't think of one who has played at 'Pool in his time and done well?
Babel, no. Riera, no. Gonzalez, no. Pennant, no. Kewell, no. Leto, no. El Zhar, no. Zenden, no.
Then there's the various other younger lads who have either come and gone or are still not looking any closer to getting in the first team. The only one who's done well is Benayoun and he isn't really a winger. The fact that when Torres is out, Rafa would still rather leave Kuyt on the wing than put him in his natural forward position is strange to me.
Tactically he seems to like his players very disciplined (with the exception of Gerrard now, and possibly Johnson) and maybe this ideology he holds, combined with the not so great man management is what is causing the problem. I know some managers dont like being too friendly with their players and there is nothing wrong with that if it works, but I seriously think Rafa has some issues here. If what Torres put in his book about when he announced he was having a baby is true then that's really bad (and why would he lie?).
That said, it's obvious he's a very capable manager and like you say there aren't that many available who could do better, and it would mean starting over and a serious clear out.
TikTikTikTikTik
*****
- 7 August 2004
- Team
- Liverpool
Re: Liverpool Thread
Have to agree with the man-management aspect. You never see the passion for Rafa like the players had for Mourinho, and have for Fergie aswell. Ronaldo's comments seem to confirm that.
And it's probably the biggest problem, it's all business/work with Rafa. It goes for any type of job imo, if you have a boss who doesn't inspire you you're unlikely to get that extra effort from the staff.
And the creative players comment is valid aswell, it's only the very best, or experienced ones (Gerrard, Torres, Beni,......) that seem to be able to do the job and excell. All the younger, less experienced players seem to suffocate under all the instructions and duties.
But this crisis is in a large part down to the defense being utterly crap this season, and that's not something Rafa can be held responsible for imo. Atleast not to extent everyone is making out. After all he's created/managed one of the best defenses in europe for the past 5 seasons with little change to the players. However Carra being very poor with both Skrtel, Agger and Aurelio out injured and a more attacking RB has been the main cause. Ofcourse the lack of ability to keep possesion hasn't helped either.
But there hasn't been a big change to the team in general, it's the combination of poor form and injuries and an obvious lack of cover for Gerrard and Torres. But they missed quite a lot of last season aswell so that shouldnt be the main problem.
Have to agree with the man-management aspect. You never see the passion for Rafa like the players had for Mourinho, and have for Fergie aswell. Ronaldo's comments seem to confirm that.
And it's probably the biggest problem, it's all business/work with Rafa. It goes for any type of job imo, if you have a boss who doesn't inspire you you're unlikely to get that extra effort from the staff.
And the creative players comment is valid aswell, it's only the very best, or experienced ones (Gerrard, Torres, Beni,......) that seem to be able to do the job and excell. All the younger, less experienced players seem to suffocate under all the instructions and duties.
But this crisis is in a large part down to the defense being utterly crap this season, and that's not something Rafa can be held responsible for imo. Atleast not to extent everyone is making out. After all he's created/managed one of the best defenses in europe for the past 5 seasons with little change to the players. However Carra being very poor with both Skrtel, Agger and Aurelio out injured and a more attacking RB has been the main cause. Ofcourse the lack of ability to keep possesion hasn't helped either.
But there hasn't been a big change to the team in general, it's the combination of poor form and injuries and an obvious lack of cover for Gerrard and Torres. But they missed quite a lot of last season aswell so that shouldnt be the main problem.
Re: Liverpool Thread
El Zhar? Leto? They've started what, 3 games in their Liverpool career?
Fuck me, talk to Vicente, who said Rafa made him the best winger in Europe. Babel's as much of a success that Nani is. Kewell was perpetually injured, so how can you blame him? Riera's a solid player, and that's what you get (normally) at 7M. And Pennant? FFS, he's the thickest footballer around. Rafa tried so hard with him, but he refused to listen. Had the talent, but too much of an ego. Kinda like Quaresma. And Zenden? Really? He was bought in to bring experience to the squad as much as anything else. Nobody really expected him to set the world on fire. Gonzalez is the only one you can say, and really, he's not setting La Liga alight is he? And he was sold immediately.
And Yossi is as much a winger as Arshavin or Messi are. And at 5M, he's done as well as Arshavin has in that time. And who cares where Kuyt is playing, as long as he is scoring goals, and providing the work rate. And systems with traditional wingers are almost obsolete anyways. Rafa doesn't want wingers, he wants clever player who can play anywhere. Hence the inquiries about Silva.
And of all those 60 players registered, more than half are youth team players. Who cares about them? Our first team squad is just as big, if not smaller than other teams.
And for idea that he likes his players discipline, I suggest watch us playing end of last season. We should as much fluidity as any team out there.
And I'd might as well add, that for all of Rafa's tenure here, only Chelsea and United have the won the leagues, and are still, two of the best teams in Europe (a position Liverpool might also command under Rafa). That's the most successful manager in club football, and the richest team in the league.
El Zhar? Leto? They've started what, 3 games in their Liverpool career?
Fuck me, talk to Vicente, who said Rafa made him the best winger in Europe. Babel's as much of a success that Nani is. Kewell was perpetually injured, so how can you blame him? Riera's a solid player, and that's what you get (normally) at 7M. And Pennant? FFS, he's the thickest footballer around. Rafa tried so hard with him, but he refused to listen. Had the talent, but too much of an ego. Kinda like Quaresma. And Zenden? Really? He was bought in to bring experience to the squad as much as anything else. Nobody really expected him to set the world on fire. Gonzalez is the only one you can say, and really, he's not setting La Liga alight is he? And he was sold immediately.
And Yossi is as much a winger as Arshavin or Messi are. And at 5M, he's done as well as Arshavin has in that time. And who cares where Kuyt is playing, as long as he is scoring goals, and providing the work rate. And systems with traditional wingers are almost obsolete anyways. Rafa doesn't want wingers, he wants clever player who can play anywhere. Hence the inquiries about Silva.
And of all those 60 players registered, more than half are youth team players. Who cares about them? Our first team squad is just as big, if not smaller than other teams.
And for idea that he likes his players discipline, I suggest watch us playing end of last season. We should as much fluidity as any team out there.
And I'd might as well add, that for all of Rafa's tenure here, only Chelsea and United have the won the leagues, and are still, two of the best teams in Europe (a position Liverpool might also command under Rafa). That's the most successful manager in club football, and the richest team in the league.
Liverbird
Omar Comin Yo
- 24 July 2009
Re: Liverpool Thread
In fact, supposing all our players are fit, we have one of the best 11th man of the world, and for me, the best of England.
--------------------Reina-----------------------
Johnson------Skrtel--------Agger---------Insua/Aurelio
------------------------Masche------------------
------------Aquilani----------------------------
Kuyt--------------------------------------Riera-
------------------------Gerrard-----------------
----------------Torres--------------------------
--------------------Dudek-----------------------
Finnan-------Carragher----Hyypia----------Traore
------------------ Alonso-----------------------
Garcia------------Gerrard-----------------Riise-
---------------------------Kewell---------------
------------------Baros-------------------------
Rafa inherited a team that, lets face it, didnt have the level to even compete for the Champions League. He added to that team Xabi Alonso and Garcia (and some other players who then were sold with a profit) and thanks to his amazing tacticals abilities he won the Champions League. Since then he has been reshaping our squad by selling and buying players, thats the reason why we dont have good alternates, because if you have to sell first in order to buy its going to be very hard to have a big and competitive team.
In fact, supposing all our players are fit, we have one of the best 11th man of the world, and for me, the best of England.
--------------------Reina-----------------------
Johnson------Skrtel--------Agger---------Insua/Aurelio
------------------------Masche------------------
------------Aquilani----------------------------
Kuyt--------------------------------------Riera-
------------------------Gerrard-----------------
----------------Torres--------------------------
--------------------Dudek-----------------------
Finnan-------Carragher----Hyypia----------Traore
------------------ Alonso-----------------------
Garcia------------Gerrard-----------------Riise-
---------------------------Kewell---------------
------------------Baros-------------------------