Liverpool Thread

[cfdh_edmundo]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Well Suarez will be missed and I think now it will be even harder to score without him.
I don't really think this is going to be the end of Suarez in England, he'll come up stronger than ever I believe and this was a good lesson for him.

PS. Apparently we're being linked with Gyan Asamoah, that could be a straight reply for all those racism claims. I hate the fact that Liverpool is being constantly provoked because we don't have black players.

But it's ridiculous to say that Liverpool don't have black players, in the current squad what about Raheem Sterling or Glenn Johnston? And in the old Liverpool teams you had players like Cissé, Diouf, Babb, Barnes, Collymore, Anelka Abel Xavier, Heskey, Mark Walters, that sub goalie (Arpaxhead or whatever his name was). As an aside I think Gyan would be a good singing but I dont see it happening with him out for the ACN Cup in Jan and also on loan in the Middle East.

Alright, my final 2c on this whole deal:

In a way I agree I think Suarez has been a bit harshly done by here. Not in terms of his ban - that is absolutely in line with what should be the case here (and has precedence in FA rulings) - but in the way this was played out in public. I personally don't like the way Evra went to the French press. If he had just gone to the ref afterwards fine - that's the appropriate channel - but to have gone to the press is never the right thing to do. And of course they ran with it - they're the scum on the scum at the bottom of the barrel.

That's the trouble with Evra, he always goes to the French press with contraversial things. There was this Suarez incident, there was the comment about Ireland after the Henry handball (comments about how Irish should "stick to what they are good at playing playstation and drinking beer", which themselves could be deemed as racist), there was the whole drama at the World Cup. He's always carping on in the french press about how Arsenal are a team of boys, and Nasri should move from "prince to king" at Old Trafford. He has a hell of a lot of contraversial stuff to say for himself, more so than most other players, and all of it seems to be via the conduit of the French press.

Consequently if (and it's a big "if") Suarez has been charged on the basis only of Evra's word then legally it seems to be a bit unsteady. I'm not sure how much legal status can be put in one mans word against another anyway and if this does go to court I can see a lawyer damaging or casting doubt on Evra's testimony more easily than another player (say if it was Gibson or Valencia). I can only assume the FA has more evidence (maybe videos or something) otherwise they have set themselves up for potentially a big fall.

 

[gomito#10]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

all of this is laughable... so now the FA is racist against the south american vs a french man! HA, ok i guess the english have really come a long way. Anyways, in England im sure it is not ok to call someone a negra in any situation. You cant use culture as ignorance. This is the same bullshit excuse southern Americans have been using for years in defense of the confederate flag and using the n word. You know, "some of my best friends are black..." same bullshit I know the spanish word for black, and i assume the majority of south americans understand an english slur is the same word. Im not buying it otherwise..

 

[beachryan]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

It's not hard to understand if you want to be subjective. Negrito or Negro when used to 'wind up' an opposition footballer of your biggest rivals is NOT THE SAME as saying Negrito in your living room when hanging with friends. No matter how many Liverpool/ Uruguayan fans try to and tell how nice and endearing a term it is - it is not.

I liken it to calling a gay player of a fairy. In general English, that's not a bad term at all, has lovely connatations of castles and wings - but if in a heated exchange you call a player a f*cking fairy - you're clearly not pointing out that they have a pointy hat on. It's a homophobic word in that context.

 

[DagsJT]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

How do you know he used "negrito" trying to wind up Evra? Why wouldn't he be saying it in a friendly way? As already stated, nobody heard it even being said, let alone in what context. From everything we're seeing, it's Evra's word against Suarez's. That's it. One says it's said in a nasty way, one in a friendly way. In court, that'd be thrown out. So what evidence have the FA got to side one way over the other?

 

[BobbyBox]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

It's not hard to understand if you want to be subjective. Negrito or Negro when used to 'wind up' an opposition footballer of your biggest rivals is NOT THE SAME as saying Negrito in your living room when hanging with friends. No matter how many Liverpool/ Uruguayan fans try to and tell how nice and endearing a term it is - it is not.

I liken it to calling a gay player of a fairy. In general English, that's not a bad term at all, has lovely connatations of castles and wings - but if in a heated exchange you call a player a f*cking fairy - you're clearly not pointing out that they have a pointy hat on. It's a homophobic word in that context.

This is a good post, to think that Suarez was saying it in a friendly way? are they friends? of course not. If all people that are defending it are saying look what context it is in, then they have to realise he was not saying it in a friendly way.

Although I also agree that if they have no other evidence than what Evra told them, then the ban can not stand.

Also if Evra used an offensive word (To do with where he is from and his background) to Suarez then he also must be punished of course?

It's all very unprofessional the way it has been handled anyway, why do all football associations behave like they haven't got a clue?! its ridiculous!

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

I was thinking about the context of the match, and for fans it's a battle and war. However we don't really know how serious players take it. I often see players raging at each other (Bellamy for example) and within a minute they are joking.

I don't think that was the position Suarez was taking btw, as I wouldn't expect him to have played against Evra often enough that they would be "collegues". But I also don't think its as black and white ( as I first thought).

 

[beachryan]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

How do you know he used "negrito" trying to wind up Evra? Why wouldn't he be saying it in a friendly way? As already stated, nobody heard it even being said, let alone in what context. From everything we're seeing, it's Evra's word against Suarez's. That's it. One says it's said in a nasty way, one in a friendly way. In court, that'd be thrown out. So what evidence have the FA got to side one way over the other?

Seriously?

Alright, I get it. Liverpool fans will defend their player to the death. As Gus Poyet just said he would.

Fine, Suarez doesn't dive, he exaggerates. He doesn't use the race card, he is misunderstood. He doesn't bite, he gives love nibbles, which are a normal way of saying hello in Uruguay. He sh*t doesn't stink, he wears King Kenny pajamas and he finds it difficult to sleep in them because his halo glows so brightly.

Moving on.

 

[DagsJT]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

So you didn't answer it at all apart from some lame sarcasm. Good stuff.

I'm not saying he's an angel or anything like that. But if he was going to be racist towards Evra in an attempt to wind him up, why not actually say something straight off the bat that would wind him up straight away? And no. It's nothing to do with clubs, it's seeing things how they are. And that is that Suarez used a word that isn't offensive in South America and I imagine he believed he wasn't being racist at all. If he wanted to be racist, he could've just said the n-word and got it out of the way.

Liverpool striker Luis Suarez's Uruguay team mates have leapt to his defence over his eight-match suspension in England for an alleged racist remark against Manchester United's Patrice Evra.

They said people in Uruguay, where a large percentage of the population is black or of mixed race, were not racist and used terms such as 'negro' in an affectionate manner or as nicknames.

"I can't believe it. They're making a big mistake. It's obvious that in England there's a racism problem they're trying to eradicate, and that's good, but this sentence has no solid arguments," Uruguay captain Diego Lugano said.

"Luis is a victim. I can't understand how a player like Evra can do this. He's breaking all the codes of football. We all know what kind of person Luis is and the values he has," the Paris St Germain defender wrote on his personal website (www.diegolugano.org).

The English FA suspended Suarez for eight matches and fined him 40,000 pounds ($62,800) for racially abusing Evra during a Premier League match at Anfield in October, saying he used "insulting words" in a reference to the French international's colour.

Lazio winger Alvaro Gonzalez, who won the Copa America with Uruguay in Argentina in July, said: "All of us who know Luis, we know that if he made this remark it wasn't (meant to be) insulting.

"We Uruguayans, and more so in football, use terms that can be wrongly interpreted by people from other places...it's not a reason to call a Uruguayan a racist," he was quoted as saying by the Montevideo newspaper El Pais.

Gonzalez said Uruguay had a high percentage of people of African descent and that "Uruguayans often call friends 'negro' affectionately".

"Maybe we end up paying for entering other, perhaps more closed cultures and which surely have discriminated against Evra at some moment for him to feel attacked in this situation."

Yes, I know they're his national teammates but they're also saying the same thing, the word is not offensive in Uruguay. He's grown up there using a vocabulary and now he's came to a different country and being crucified for using a word that's perceived differently by some here than back home where nobody sees it as offensive.

Should the ref be pulled in by the FA for being racist?

Should Evra be punished for calling Suarez a "sudaca"?

What about Edmundo's mention of Evra referring to Irish in a particular way? Is that not racist?

I'm expecting all of the answers to the above to be "no", by the way.

 

[gerd]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

It's not hard to understand if you want to be subjective. Negrito or Negro when used to 'wind up' an opposition footballer of your biggest rivals is NOT THE SAME as saying Negrito in your living room when hanging with friends.

I'm sorry ryan (or beach or beachryan), but that is bullshit. The fans are stupid enough to take that ridiculous rivalry thing serious, but not the players...this is not about a player born and raised in Liverpool and a player born and raised in Manchester.
This is a (supposed?) row between a French asshole and an Uruguyuan asshole...the longer i think of it the more i'm sure the most fair result of all this nonsense would be to ban them both for 8 matches or even longer.

This is absolutely not about racism, this is about two spoiled, stupid brats who clouldn't care less about racism but who only live in their own litle cocoon where they are adored because they can kick a ball a litle bit better than you and certainly me... Fuck Suarez and fuck Evra. Why are most football players so bloody fucking stupid.

And in a couple of weeks we'll have to hear two other neanderthalers about the same thing, messers Terry and Anton Ferdinand....

Ban them all four for the rest of the millenium...good riddance.

 

[bebo]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

all of this is laughable... so now the FA is racist against the south american vs a french man! HA, ok i guess the english have really come a long way. Anyways, in England im sure it is not ok to call someone a negra in any situation. You cant use culture as ignorance. This is the same bullshit excuse southern Americans have been using for years in defense of the confederate flag and using the n word. You know, "some of my best friends are black..." same bullshit I know the spanish word for black, and i assume the majority of south americans understand an english slur is the same word. Im not buying it otherwise..

confederate flag bullshit ! plz! . It`s like saying to a cancerous person I feel your pain although you never had cancer. I live in the South and doesn`t say a whole lot if you have kin here or not. You`re not hispanic nor truly understand the culture even if you pick up a few words in spanish or go to the local cinco de mayo festival. I never understood the rebel flag ,but I know it`s part of heritage . A heritage of what? turn a blind eye to slavery n such ,rebels against taxation . The biggest problem is ppl call hispanic or spanish like it`s the same ...it`s not only to ignorant folks. Cuban,Domincan,Boricua,Mexican, Venezuelan, Chilean,Nicaraguan ,Costarican etc. are not the same even they have words in spanish that are different.

Example: A dominican women yells out in a group of boricuas don`t mind her ( daughter) she`s a lil`menace the word menace for boricua is horny. So , imagine that scenario . Everything is not black n white when culture clash. If , I didn`t approach that lady and explain her words meant different who knows how mant times she yell out my 4 yr old is Horny or a cake for domincan means pussy for Mexican so again. Suarez only knows if he was trying to say it on his content or evra`s.

@gerd great post !!!!!

 

[beachryan]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

@ Gerd - I tend to agree with you that they're spoilt footballers, as I said last night this whole thing is only an issue because it played out in public. Evra is a media whore, that is undoubtedly true. But I do believe, as the FA do, that Suarez called him a word that in the context of the situation Evra and the FA believed to be racist in nature. And that's pretty much all that matters.

It's undoubtedly opened a big ole can of worms, and I can't wait to hear every losing side accusing some player of some racist epitaph. Sigh.

@ Dags - Yes, I was being facetious, but no more so than Suarez's teammates. Gus Poyet has said he would defend Suarez to the death. You simply can't debate or even talk to someone with such a (ha) black and white view on a matter.

As for those that say Evra should just take it and shut up - I couldn't disagree more. How do you think racism was removed from the legal system? From good black employees just getting on with their job when abused? FFS. That is one of the most idiotic defenses I've ever heard. So if I'm a black gay footballer I should just get on with my job being called a n**** f**** every match? Please. Don't ask footballers for intelligent comments.

The way Evra complained was stupid and wrong, but the fact that he complained was very, very right.

 

[bebo]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

So if I'm a black gay footballer I should just get on with my job being called a n**** f**** every match? Please. Don't ask footballers for intelligent comments.

The way Evra complained was stupid and wrong, but the fact that he complained was very, very right.

what does homosexually has to do with it?

 

[Jamesy]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

It's a big can of worms! Whatever the FA do, it'll never please everyone because they're consistently inconsistent.

Evra (yes he can be a prat at times) is going to get abuse over it, when all he did was speak out against a phrase that he felt was racist. Everything else he does to piss off other fans shouldn't come into it. The problem is that it wasn't clear to everyone. Whether Suarez was aware that whatever he said is deemed as racist in England doesn't really matter. You're surrounded by English culture, so should be aware of these things. Is that down to the club not educating him, or something the FA & FIFA should be responsible for? Who knows.

When Roberto Carlos walked off the pitch because of his racist abuse, it was crystal clear that what happened to him was out of order & impossible to defend. When someone mutters it to you it's harder to prove, so there will be doubts.

I can see both sides of the argument, but it's too tough to say which is the right one. I just hope that now something has been set in motion it carries on with consistency. Which is about as likely as Lucy Pinder turning up on my doorstep later...

It'll be the same with John Terry. Most people I know will hope he gets hit hard, and will feel that whatever he gets isn't enough. Come matchday we'll gladly remind him about it.

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

This is absolutely not about racism, this is about two spoiled, stupid brats who clouldn't care less about racism but who only live in their own litle cocoon where they are adored because they can kick a ball a litle bit better than you and certainly me... Fuck Suarez and fuck Evra. Why are most football players so bloody fucking stupid.

And in a couple of weeks we'll have to hear two other neanderthalers about the same thing, messers Terry and Anton Ferdinand....

Ban them all four for the rest of the millenium...good riddance.

How dare Evra and Ferdinand be racially abused, the temerity of it...

 

[PIPA23]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Look the thing is that Evra want´s to drag this thing to this dimensions..he feels offended and it´s no use to think he has no right´s to do so.. but let´s be honest, an insult is an insult...but the measure of insult by Evra is different and the perspective is totally different in Suarez option.. Suarez is NO RACIST, even if he said this...some words are just used often, depends on culture... word "nigga" don´t have to be an insult, depends on the way people look at this...

If this would get further, than will FA punish anyone who thinks he heard something? then good luck FA, you need to hire many new employees for such investigation....

 

[beachryan]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Look the thing is that Evra want´s to drag this thing to this dimensions..he feels offended and it´s no use to think he has no right´s to do so.. but let´s be honest, an insult is an insult...but the measure of insult by Evra is different and the perspective is totally different in Suarez option.. Suarez is NO RACIST, even if he said this...some words are just used often, depends on culture... word "nigga" don´t have to be an insult, depends on the way people look at this...

If this would get further, than will FA punish anyone who thinks he heard something? then good luck FA, you need to hire many new employees for such investigation....

No one has said Suarez IS racist. He SAID something racist, and was charged for saying something racist.

If Suarez was found to BE racist, I would suggest he find a new career

 

[PIPA23]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

sorry i didn´t express myself clear, i mean the media and oposite team fans will now see him as RACIST, this is what harms him and his career... This could have been cleared out in privacy and without the media using it to sell newspapers...

 

[kevano22]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

No one has said Suarez IS racist. He SAID something racist, and was charged for saying something racist.

If Suarez was found to BE racist, I would suggest he find a new career

I hear the klan needs a new leader now Terry has been outed.

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

sorry i didn´t express myself clear, i mean the media and oposite team fans will now see him as RACIST, this is what harms him and his career... This could have been cleared out in privacy and without the media using it to sell newspapers...

It could've been sorted out privately...but Dalglish and your club have made a complete pig's ear out of it.

Any chance of Suarez and Liverpool coming out of this with their reputations intact is gone.

 

[PIPA23]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

It could've been sorted out privately...but Dalglish and your club have made a complete pig's ear out of it.

Any chance of Suarez and Liverpool coming out of this with their reputations intact is gone.

maybe they did, but it´s been done after the FA decieded...

would you think they turn their back on him? or say this is not a big deal?

 

[gomito#10]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

THE ONLY CONTEXT IS THAT this took place in England, not in Uruguay. You cant use your own culture as ignorance, Bebo i have no idea what the fuck point your making. If you think its ok to walk down a street in america and call a black guy a negra, cause its ok to do it somewhere in central or south america, then your ignorant as well. Suarez wasnt in Montevideo, he was in england. All of you are asking everyone else to respect the culture of south/central/latin americans but then your being hypocrites when in fact suarez was disrespecting the culture in England.

 

[gomito#10]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

I'm sorry ryan (or beach or beachryan), but that is bullshit. The fans are stupid enough to take that ridiculous rivalry thing serious, but not the players...this is not about a player born and raised in Liverpool and a player born and raised in Manchester.
This is a (supposed?) row between a French asshole and an Uruguyuan asshole...the longer i think of it the more i'm sure the most fair result of all this nonsense would be to ban them both for 8 matches or even longer.

This is absolutely not about racism, this is about two spoiled, stupid brats who clouldn't care less about racism but who only live in their own litle cocoon where they are adored because they can kick a ball a litle bit better than you and certainly me... Fuck Suarez and fuck Evra. Why are most football players so bloody fucking stupid.

And in a couple of weeks we'll have to hear two other neanderthalers about the same thing, messers Terry and Anton Ferdinand....

Ban them all four for the rest of the millenium...good riddance.

i dont get it gerd. So lets say suarez did throw racist slurs and evra, are you saying this is ok cause fuck them there spoiled brats and they have more money then I do...

 

[PIPA23]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

You are right but then again, FA should tell the clubs to give all non-english players a lecture of how to behave on field and what are not used words or not tolerated one´s...

 

[DagsJT]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

It could've been sorted out privately...but Dalglish and your club have made a complete pig's ear out of it.

Any chance of Suarez and Liverpool coming out of this with their reputations intact is gone.

Nothing to do with Evra going to the French press first and foremost then? He could've just asked Man Utd to speak to the FA and Liverpool privately. But why do that when you can go to the media and make it a big drama?

 

[gomito#10]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

You are right but then again, FA should tell the clubs to give all non-english players a lecture of how to behave on field and what are not used words or not tolerated one´s...

in think case i think this word is widely known to be offensive in english...
maybe other words sure, but if other words were used maybe we would not be hearing about this..

 

[beachryan]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

sorry i didn´t express myself clear, i mean the media and oposite team fans will now see him as RACIST, this is what harms him and his career... This could have been cleared out in privacy and without the media using it to sell newspapers...

Sorry, yes - I completely agree. Evra should have spoken to the ref - fine, but going on TV was wrong. And the whole Liverpool campaign against Evra has been disgusting imo.

The thing is, I bet both would have gotten along fine if this had just been handled differently.

 

[gerd]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

How dare Evra and Ferdinand be racially abused, the temerity of it...

You clearly did not read my post...this is not about racism. See also Evra's comment about the Irish mentioned in this thread...IMO this is also racist. Evra is the last person who can complain about racism.

If United would have won that match, Evra would have said nothing. If i were a Man Utd fan i would want Evra to play some decent match instead of all this nonsense. Professionally i've worked on racism campaigns and i work with illegal fugitives from war zones..people who were prosecuted for their beliefs.

This is about two enormous spoiled arse holes who barely can spell their own name and ply their trade with balls that are made by childeren in Bangladesh...and ride in cars that cost more than the GNP of Bangladesh. So lets put this in perspective.

I have a tiny litle bit of sympathy for Ferdinand, but he is also a major arse hole...i wonder if the press attach as much attention for the hunderds of people who are working like slaves a couple of miles away from the stadiums of both Chelsea and QPR.

 

[aitken]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

This thread is out of hand.

 

[mathewsss]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

I think Suarez was naive to use that word....
you should not say that to an opponent when there is an intense
atmosphere and arguments and tackles flying in....
Saying that his teammates call Evra the same thing...is a lame excuse
since Evra is not his buddy...and was his enemy at that time.

he may never have expected Evra to do this.....
but it's a tough lesson that must be learned....

I think Evra should also be banned for calling him "sudaca".
But Suarez did not complain...and that is the difference.

In hindsight Liverpool should have expected these things...
when they signed Suarez who had just finished a lengthy ban
in Holland.....he was always going to court controversy...
and we spent 22million on taking that risk....
Well 35 million on Carrol ranks as infinitely bigger risk than that.

Suarez should leave....maybe to La Liga.

He will be hounded by the media and the fans out of England..

Liverpool need 2 strikers....sell Carroll too.

 

[gerd]

Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)

Gomito, i'm gonna say something outrageous.
i still think Blatter should have be fired after he said that things like these are said in the heat of a game. As FIFA's president he can't say that.
But actually (and i feel uneasy with it) i tend to agree with that...i'm not sure if Suarez meant harm when he said "negrito", but IMO this is irrelevant. If Evra would have called Adam "whitey", would that have been racist? Nobody would have cared... If Suarez would have called Evra stupid, nobody would have mind...calling him Negrito IMO is as inoffensive as calling him stupid, jerk...

Suarez is an idiot and he deserves a ban for other things he did because despite his obvious talent he is among the most irritating players. But i think Evra deserves a ban too because he is blowing this enormously up...in sport there is something like fair play. What Evra does is not fair.

To put this in perspective:

I hope the FA starts to give 8 games bans every time a player calls another player a faggot because football is much more homophobic than racist. Most people who are complaining now would not mind at all...

I game should get interrupted when a part of the stadium makes monkey shouts...that is racism.

Calling Evra negrito is less offensive than saying Belgium is boring what most English do... and that is far from racism, it's just stupidity like what Suarez did. It becomes racist when people say that every Irishman is stupid...

The way some people here talk about Scottish football is far more offensive than what Suarez said.

But by discussing this we also blow it out of proportion...so i'm guilty too.