PIPA23
retired :)
- 21 June 2007
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
Liverpool Thread
- Thread starter Misfit
- Start date
PIPA23
retired :)
- 21 June 2007
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
i´m with DagsJT on the punishing of Suarez..IF the clamis will prove to be true...
It´s about high morals in case of racism and i would not mind kick such person out even if it was Messi...
i´m with DagsJT on the punishing of Suarez..IF the clamis will prove to be true...
It´s about high morals in case of racism and i would not mind kick such person out even if it was Messi...
TikTikTikTikTik
*****
- 7 August 2004
- Liverpool
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
Can you post a link where LFC make a reference to his history? I can barely find any comments from them at all looking at the different web reports.
And nobody here is judging Suarez to be innocent, so far everyone has said that if it's true then give him a harsh fine/ban. So far there has been nothing shown that says he is guilty. But as I said before, I can't understand why Evra would make a claim like that if it isn't true...and I said I could see Suarez doing it to try and get one up on the player.
But Evra had a bee in his bonnet before the game even kicked off, does anybody know why he was already arguing and moaning with ref during and after the coin toss?
Can you post a link where LFC make a reference to his history? I can barely find any comments from them at all looking at the different web reports.
And nobody here is judging Suarez to be innocent, so far everyone has said that if it's true then give him a harsh fine/ban. So far there has been nothing shown that says he is guilty. But as I said before, I can't understand why Evra would make a claim like that if it isn't true...and I said I could see Suarez doing it to try and get one up on the player.
But Evra had a bee in his bonnet before the game even kicked off, does anybody know why he was already arguing and moaning with ref during and after the coin toss?
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
On a side note, this is why football players will never be respected by fans of other sports:
"I felt a touch and if I hadn't gone down I would have been clear through on goal so there must have been contact. That's the way I look at it. I felt contact when I went past Rio and that's the way it goes."
He added: "I'm not that type of player. I'm not just going to go down easily. It was a foul and that is why the referee gave it."
On the one hand, I'm not just going to go down easily. On the other, he felt a touch.
I know footballers aren't known for their intellect, but come on Charlie. Just keep your trap shut and stop making a fool of yourself. We know you did well to 'win' your side a free kick, but when you come out and contradict yourself in the same two sentences, you sound like a tit.
On a side note, this is why football players will never be respected by fans of other sports:
"I felt a touch and if I hadn't gone down I would have been clear through on goal so there must have been contact. That's the way I look at it. I felt contact when I went past Rio and that's the way it goes."
He added: "I'm not that type of player. I'm not just going to go down easily. It was a foul and that is why the referee gave it."
On the one hand, I'm not just going to go down easily. On the other, he felt a touch.
I know footballers aren't known for their intellect, but come on Charlie. Just keep your trap shut and stop making a fool of yourself. We know you did well to 'win' your side a free kick, but when you come out and contradict yourself in the same two sentences, you sound like a tit.
bebo
Looking for a Manager
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
Evra is scum end of.... he`s proved it over country and now club. Evra is a parasite didn`t know "nigga" was a universal . I can`t see it yo you nigga! I here youth regardless of skin tone use that all the time.. say this all the time. Evra sour grapes man up big baby
Evra is scum end of.... he`s proved it over country and now club. Evra is a parasite didn`t know "nigga" was a universal . I can`t see it yo you nigga! I here youth regardless of skin tone use that all the time.. say this all the time. Evra sour grapes man up big baby
TikTikTikTikTik
*****
- 7 August 2004
- Liverpool
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
I can call my black mate(s) lazy n***** and they laugh about it. But they know there is no negative meaning behind it. During a match when it's very much an aggressive negative stance towards each other, it gets another meaning and shouldn't be used at all imo.
I can call my black mate(s) lazy n***** and they laugh about it. But they know there is no negative meaning behind it. During a match when it's very much an aggressive negative stance towards each other, it gets another meaning and shouldn't be used at all imo.
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
Wow...just...wow.
Of course, context should be left out of such discussions. As should logic and intellect it appears...
Wow...just...wow.
Of course, context should be left out of such discussions. As should logic and intellect it appears...
Aboutreika18
Too Black, Too Strong
- 5 September 2006
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
I hope that he gets an infraction for that, if the Evo-Web mods are consistent, eh Tom?
I hope that he gets an infraction for that, if the Evo-Web mods are consistent, eh Tom?
daikirai
statement™
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
That's because a lot of youth are insensitive little shit heads lol. I myself am half black and have heard the word used over and over by people that assume I am white/italian/something light skinned. Either saying it towards my brother (Dark skin) or my father after they have left and it is just me and the person. When I tell them I am half black it usually results in an "Oh... I didn't mean..I'm not...Uhhh.." I have friends who use it towards me, jokingly, and I use other words towards them jokingly, but that's because we know there is nothing behind it. Saying it to someone you don't know, who you are COMPETING against would never come across as friendly, ever.
I'm not defending Evra, I'm not defending Suarez. If Suarez said it, fuck him for at least the season.
That's because a lot of youth are insensitive little shit heads lol. I myself am half black and have heard the word used over and over by people that assume I am white/italian/something light skinned. Either saying it towards my brother (Dark skin) or my father after they have left and it is just me and the person. When I tell them I am half black it usually results in an "Oh... I didn't mean..I'm not...Uhhh.." I have friends who use it towards me, jokingly, and I use other words towards them jokingly, but that's because we know there is nothing behind it. Saying it to someone you don't know, who you are COMPETING against would never come across as friendly, ever.
I'm not defending Evra, I'm not defending Suarez. If Suarez said it, fuck him for at least the season.
bebo
Looking for a Manager
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
I`m sorry if I offended anyone w/ the word "nigga" beachryan or abou (calling Tom to ban me ) cheeky. Trust me, I`m an open book I`m not easily offended . My opinon on Evra being a parasite remains
That`s it though in the US the word is so commonly used . Me being mulato-hispanic I see lot more race related within the same race. Not saying it doesn`t happen I mean using the "a" vs. "er" makes more different.
I`m sorry if I offended anyone w/ the word "nigga" beachryan or abou (calling Tom to ban me ) cheeky. Trust me, I`m an open book I`m not easily offended . My opinon on Evra being a parasite remains
gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
Both are Man Utd fans, this isn't about racism bebo..it's about tribalism.
Take the quote about Adam: on the one hand beachryan is right: this is why football players will never be respected by other sports' fans. On the other hand: Cristiano Ronaldo played for Man Utd, the biggest diver and drama queen ever on a football pitch.
I never hear football fans complain about their own players.
Pipa is glad that Liverpool have a "clever" player like Suarez.
PS: Bebo is right, Evra is nothing but trouble, he was trouble for France in the WC and on top of that at the moment he is playing rather bad...but in this instance i tend to believe Evra. Like i already said: either Suarez or Evra should get a serious punishment for what happened (or did not happen). I'm pretty sure nothing will come of it...
PPS: it's pretty obvious that bebo's post was not racist.
Both are Man Utd fans, this isn't about racism bebo..it's about tribalism.
Take the quote about Adam: on the one hand beachryan is right: this is why football players will never be respected by other sports' fans. On the other hand: Cristiano Ronaldo played for Man Utd, the biggest diver and drama queen ever on a football pitch.
I never hear football fans complain about their own players.
Pipa is glad that Liverpool have a "clever" player like Suarez.
PS: Bebo is right, Evra is nothing but trouble, he was trouble for France in the WC and on top of that at the moment he is playing rather bad...but in this instance i tend to believe Evra. Like i already said: either Suarez or Evra should get a serious punishment for what happened (or did not happen). I'm pretty sure nothing will come of it...
PPS: it's pretty obvious that bebo's post was not racist.
PIPA23
retired :)
- 21 June 2007
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
Gerd my gladness is not about what Suarez is in his brain..couse i can´t see him being a psycho or a racist if something happens during a high tempo match where it´s basicly a fight... Once you are in a situation that someone attacks you or you are fighting and want to win, and imagine winning for money and knowing this is only thing you know the best... i can speak for myself that in such situation you can become a different person for few minutes - in case of football match for 90 minutes...that´s why we see so many divers even experienced players dive...becouse maybe sometimes they don´t realise it and they do it automatically or they do EVERYTHING for their team to win the game..
That EVERITHING is something i personaly admire on Suarez... we didn´t had such fighter (except Kuyt) who would be so talented and who would fight for 3 points so much as Suarez..
I also don´t consider Bebo´s post racist, becouse what this word means for one person, for other it could mean nothing at all.. I live in a country without any black people, maybe gipsy, but they are a part of our country sociality.. but anyway.. i belive the word is maybe in more parts of such country´s being mentioned as curse or shamefull word more by white than by the black people...
i tend not to say black so appologise..becouse anyone who is not white is black in the view of racist..but we know that world has milions colors and that each person is different.. I tend to belive Evra as well...maybe Suarez as a football freak who fights did say the word to him in passion and without giving it a big deal about it.. But i honestly don´t belive he said it to him 10 times or that he is racist or would say such thing to anyone outside the field being calm...
I honestly doubt any of the clubs will go deeper in this matter...
Gerd my gladness is not about what Suarez is in his brain..couse i can´t see him being a psycho or a racist if something happens during a high tempo match where it´s basicly a fight... Once you are in a situation that someone attacks you or you are fighting and want to win, and imagine winning for money and knowing this is only thing you know the best... i can speak for myself that in such situation you can become a different person for few minutes - in case of football match for 90 minutes...that´s why we see so many divers even experienced players dive...becouse maybe sometimes they don´t realise it and they do it automatically or they do EVERYTHING for their team to win the game..
That EVERITHING is something i personaly admire on Suarez... we didn´t had such fighter (except Kuyt) who would be so talented and who would fight for 3 points so much as Suarez..
I also don´t consider Bebo´s post racist, becouse what this word means for one person, for other it could mean nothing at all.. I live in a country without any black people, maybe gipsy, but they are a part of our country sociality.. but anyway.. i belive the word is maybe in more parts of such country´s being mentioned as curse or shamefull word more by white than by the black people...
i tend not to say black so appologise..becouse anyone who is not white is black in the view of racist..but we know that world has milions colors and that each person is different.. I tend to belive Evra as well...maybe Suarez as a football freak who fights did say the word to him in passion and without giving it a big deal about it.. But i honestly don´t belive he said it to him 10 times or that he is racist or would say such thing to anyone outside the field being calm...
I honestly doubt any of the clubs will go deeper in this matter...
bebo
Looking for a Manager
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
Cheers, Pipas n Gerd
I use to get offended by the "cxnt" word until I saw it was used so much it became normal to see and hear. Whatever happen to the racist claim with Chelsea`s ground keeper? Did Evra drop his campaign ? Evra is a very solid player and done well for MUTD. So, I get how Mutd supporter could be bother by this.The WC mutiny really open my eyes to see what Evra`s really about.
I really will hate for Suarez to get punish or be ban for games. This could turn to invisible cards to hearing words from players. If, Suarez did it ...fine him make him take a classes . I`m not a Liverpool supporter far from it. A strong Liverpool is better for the league .
Cheers, Pipas n Gerd
I use to get offended by the "cxnt" word until I saw it was used so much it became normal to see and hear. Whatever happen to the racist claim with Chelsea`s ground keeper? Did Evra drop his campaign ? Evra is a very solid player and done well for MUTD. So, I get how Mutd supporter could be bother by this.The WC mutiny really open my eyes to see what Evra`s really about.
I really will hate for Suarez to get punish or be ban for games. This could turn to invisible cards to hearing words from players. If, Suarez did it ...fine him make him take a classes . I`m not a Liverpool supporter far from it. A strong Liverpool is better for the league .
D
DagsJT
Guest
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/19350
Petition for UK residents.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/19350
Petition for UK residents.
PIPA23
retired :)
- 21 June 2007
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
I was thinking more about this matter and Evra saying "he said this word to me".. and that there is cameras to prove. I´m fine with this.. but realy who from FA will look on the cameras to lip read Suarez for this word..? I bet nobody will.. so basicly Evra is bringing this problem up without even having a big chance to have his words being proved.. This causes a dilema between players and coaches - fans.. I think this behaviour should be punished, but why didn´t evra said to the referee RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT that Suarez said that word to him...why he didn´t bothered to say this to referee after the 10th time or so...? Why he didn´t left the field like Carlos did after being thrown a banana in Russia league match some months ago? Then this couse would be much more important and Evra´s actions will prove this should immediately be proven either by Suarez himself or any other way it´s possible to prove it..
What i think is that FIFA or UEFA or FA JUST DON´T GIVE A DAMN, yes, they don´t...becouse if they would give a damn, they would investigate racism between players more and PUNISH it more than they do... They do punish racism from fans..but do you have a feeling they realy do care about this? Do you have a feeling UEFA or FIFA or whatever other football asotiation realy punishes diving as it SHOULD be? I mean...the referee is just human and he can´t see all the dives..but we have RECORDINGS, VIDEOS - hundret´s cameras around field..If a player DIVES - clearly without any touch, he should be hardly punished - 3 games ban or so... this WOULD teach players not to DIVE..
but do you see such mesures being made? i don´t see any of this...and as long as the 22 man on field will be judged by 2 eyes of main referee...the Diving, insults, gestures and so on, WON´T EVER BE PUNISHED...and it´s just useless of Evra even mentioning the insult´s as i see it..plain useless..
I was thinking more about this matter and Evra saying "he said this word to me".. and that there is cameras to prove. I´m fine with this.. but realy who from FA will look on the cameras to lip read Suarez for this word..? I bet nobody will.. so basicly Evra is bringing this problem up without even having a big chance to have his words being proved.. This causes a dilema between players and coaches - fans.. I think this behaviour should be punished, but why didn´t evra said to the referee RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT that Suarez said that word to him...why he didn´t bothered to say this to referee after the 10th time or so...? Why he didn´t left the field like Carlos did after being thrown a banana in Russia league match some months ago? Then this couse would be much more important and Evra´s actions will prove this should immediately be proven either by Suarez himself or any other way it´s possible to prove it..
What i think is that FIFA or UEFA or FA JUST DON´T GIVE A DAMN, yes, they don´t...becouse if they would give a damn, they would investigate racism between players more and PUNISH it more than they do... They do punish racism from fans..but do you have a feeling they realy do care about this? Do you have a feeling UEFA or FIFA or whatever other football asotiation realy punishes diving as it SHOULD be? I mean...the referee is just human and he can´t see all the dives..but we have RECORDINGS, VIDEOS - hundret´s cameras around field..If a player DIVES - clearly without any touch, he should be hardly punished - 3 games ban or so... this WOULD teach players not to DIVE..
but do you see such mesures being made? i don´t see any of this...and as long as the 22 man on field will be judged by 2 eyes of main referee...the Diving, insults, gestures and so on, WON´T EVER BE PUNISHED...and it´s just useless of Evra even mentioning the insult´s as i see it..plain useless..
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
An insult and racism is two different things, if suarez did say something racist then yes he should be punished, no one should ever get away with being racist, on other hand, if he didn't then i don't understand evra's reasons for coming out but evra is adamant that he did so guess just see what the outcome is and in relation to diving debate, Luis Suarez is hardly an idol at staying on his feet
An insult and racism is two different things, if suarez did say something racist then yes he should be punished, no one should ever get away with being racist, on other hand, if he didn't then i don't understand evra's reasons for coming out but evra is adamant that he did so guess just see what the outcome is and in relation to diving debate, Luis Suarez is hardly an idol at staying on his feet
PIPA23
retired :)
- 21 June 2007
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
agree but in this case the question is not as much if he did say something or not...but how to prove Evra words..
agree but in this case the question is not as much if he did say something or not...but how to prove Evra words..
bebo
Looking for a Manager
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
Think only in Brasil players been arrested after the game for racist commrnts
Think only in Brasil players been arrested after the game for racist commrnts
D
DagsJT
Guest
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
Sky have already said that they can't find anything in the footage.
Sky have already said that they can't find anything in the footage.
D
DagsJT
Guest
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
It'd be Sky cameras all over the place there. If anyone was going to find it, then it'd be Sky. They'd love to be the ones to show Suarez being racist as it'd be great for their PR etc. And if they can't find it by now, I doubt anyone will.
It'd be Sky cameras all over the place there. If anyone was going to find it, then it'd be Sky. They'd love to be the ones to show Suarez being racist as it'd be great for their PR etc. And if they can't find it by now, I doubt anyone will.
bebo
Looking for a Manager
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
Only in brasil a player will be arrested for racist slur. Remember a few years back an argie was arrested after the match i think he went to jail still wearing his boots lol . They take racism very serious in Brasil
just realized i double posted thought i was on another forum lol
Only in brasil a player will be arrested for racist slur. Remember a few years back an argie was arrested after the match i think he went to jail still wearing his boots lol . They take racism very serious in Brasil
just realized i double posted thought i was on another forum lol
Last edited:
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
For the record, I don't think Bebo's post was racist at all. I'm from a predominately black country, I hear nigga daily. It's fine in context.
But a slight modification to the word brings very serious ramifications with it, and particularly when it's used to be provocative. (In Bermuda) we've had politicians, businessmen anyone you can imagine have their careers ruined by saying that one word, because of the history it brings with it.
And just in case it isn't clear to Bebo, Nigga is a very different word from n*****r.
Which is part of why this whole thing baffles me. I mean, would Suarez really know the importance of the words, in English, and be able to use them to his advantage? It seems unlikely.
But then, for Evra to not only come out straight after the match but then 24 hours later tell Fergie he is going to pursue it means that he clearly believes he heard it.
It will be impossible to prove anyway. For people pointing out Sky didn't see it - it was mainly during corner kicks and anyone who plays even Sunday league can tell you how easy it is to trash talk your opponent when they're inches from your face.
Basically nothing will happen. The FA won't be able to prove it either way. Therefore obviously Suarez can't be punished, but you can't punish Evra either unless it's proven that he lied. You need players that are being racially abused to be able to come forward, or we're never going to get it out of the game.
And Gerd's right about the tribalism. Once it's all died down stupid United fans will call Suarez racist and stupid Liverpool fans will call Evra a boy who cried wolf.
For the record, I don't think Bebo's post was racist at all. I'm from a predominately black country, I hear nigga daily. It's fine in context.
But a slight modification to the word brings very serious ramifications with it, and particularly when it's used to be provocative. (In Bermuda) we've had politicians, businessmen anyone you can imagine have their careers ruined by saying that one word, because of the history it brings with it.
And just in case it isn't clear to Bebo, Nigga is a very different word from n*****r.
Which is part of why this whole thing baffles me. I mean, would Suarez really know the importance of the words, in English, and be able to use them to his advantage? It seems unlikely.
But then, for Evra to not only come out straight after the match but then 24 hours later tell Fergie he is going to pursue it means that he clearly believes he heard it.
It will be impossible to prove anyway. For people pointing out Sky didn't see it - it was mainly during corner kicks and anyone who plays even Sunday league can tell you how easy it is to trash talk your opponent when they're inches from your face.
Basically nothing will happen. The FA won't be able to prove it either way. Therefore obviously Suarez can't be punished, but you can't punish Evra either unless it's proven that he lied. You need players that are being racially abused to be able to come forward, or we're never going to get it out of the game.
And Gerd's right about the tribalism. Once it's all died down stupid United fans will call Suarez racist and stupid Liverpool fans will call Evra a boy who cried wolf.
bebo
Looking for a Manager
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
Look they still have KKK parades here and every blue moon handout their bile and so does the Black Nation of Islam ! you had your dig at me already w/ my intellect n logic . I was apologetic but I see you want more...
Look they still have KKK parades here and every blue moon handout their bile and so does the Black Nation of Islam ! you had your dig at me already w/ my intellect n logic . I was apologetic but I see you want more...
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
You're right, apologies. And I wasn't having another dig the second time. Anyway, let's move on - I doubt this issue will ever have a resolution.
Look they still have KKK parades here and every blue moon handout their bile and so does the Black Nation of Islam ! you had your dig at me already w/ my intellect n logic . I was apologetic but I see you want more...
You're right, apologies. And I wasn't having another dig the second time. Anyway, let's move on - I doubt this issue will ever have a resolution.
gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
This article was on the Guardian's website, it's from Marina Hyde (she's a very good football journalist, one of my favourite). It's about Evra-Suarez and i absolutely agree with all that is in it.
Is there anything less appealing than the absolute moral certainty with which some Liverpool fans automatically dismissed Patrice Evra's claim that he was racially abused, and some Manchester United fans automatically wrote off Luis Suárez as a racist, despite neither faction having any way of knowing for sure what actually happened on the pitch on Saturday? Actually, yes. There is something less appealing. It is Her Majesty's Press larding on the hints of the insta‑judgment to which they have come on the matter.
"Malice" just happened to be the first word of the Telegraph's match report, while the Mail claimed Evra had been "left isolated". Both were fairly typical. This newspaper ran a poll in which the question was termed: "Should Evra be banned if his claim proves false?"
Mm. I'm rather sorry we missed the chance to run something similar a few days into the Dominique Strauss-Kahn business. "If the hotel maid's claim is proved false," it might have read, "should she be deported?" Let's hope that in the future, media organisations seeking new revenue streams will explore the possibility of lucrative, X Factor-style phone polling on these hot-button issues. Text the word MARTYR to 80051, or UPPITY to 80052.
Votes will cost 25p from a mobile, but the cost to society may be considerably more. It should go without saying that fostering a culture in which a player – any player – feels able to raise allegations of racism without fear of an instant backlash is of interest to all right-thinking fans, no matter which team they support. It should go without saying, but it unfortunately doesn't, which is why Kick It Out was launching its latest three-week campaign at Saturday's game. As it turned out, the match will function as a curtain-raiser to an FA investigation into Evra's claims.
Ideally, the FA would have come out with an immediate statement along the lines of: "All accusations of racism are taken seriously, but all players are innocent until proven guilty." Instead they muttered something about "making inquiries", which downgrades the principles at stake. Indeed, it's clear many still regard any such official complaints as breaking ranks, as exemplified by the former United player Paul Parker, who wrote this week that Evra shouldn't have caused "a public fuss", but just mentioned it informally to Kenny Dalglish.
Yet the real required reading on the issues raised by this current storm is a 2007 Mail interview with Manchester City's Joleon Lescott, in which the then Everton player recalled his experience of making an allegation of racism to the FA. Lescott submitted that the Newcastle midfielder Emre Belezoglu had called Joseph Yobo a "fucking negro", while his team-mate Tim Howard submitted that he had heard "fucking nigger". It was this disparity that led to the allegation being deemed unproven. Lescott was furious, as he had been all along. On the match day, he felt both clubs were trying to play down the alleged incident. He bridled that the players were advised not to say anything to the media. But the FA hearing disillusioned Lescott most. "It felt like we were on trial as much as Emre was," he said. "I felt hurt by it, having gone to the trouble of making a complaint, attending the hearing, making a stand." He said he had spoken to many black players who had endured "a lot worse", and that he would think twice before wearing a Kick It Out shirt again.
Lescott gave that interview in 2007. What a long way we haven't come since – and those fixating on what they deem to be Evra's character will ensure any progress remains glacial. In football as in wider society, there are far too many people who claim that the real issue isn't racism, but people making false accusations of racism, just as there are plenty of people who prefer to think that false accusations of rape are more of a problem than rape itself. They aren't.
Deliberately or not, too many miss the big picture, which is that any accusation of racism should be dignified, so that the next person who might have cause to make one sees that a fair hearing is at least a possibility. Naturally, the investigating authorities may find it unproven or malicious. But no incident should be blithely and hastily written off by people not in possession of all the evidence and testimony, but who reckon the accuser may be a wrong 'un. The apparent failure to realise this – even among people who would consider themselves intelligent observers of the game – illustrates how very far football and the society it reflects has to go.
This article was on the Guardian's website, it's from Marina Hyde (she's a very good football journalist, one of my favourite). It's about Evra-Suarez and i absolutely agree with all that is in it.
Is there anything less appealing than the absolute moral certainty with which some Liverpool fans automatically dismissed Patrice Evra's claim that he was racially abused, and some Manchester United fans automatically wrote off Luis Suárez as a racist, despite neither faction having any way of knowing for sure what actually happened on the pitch on Saturday? Actually, yes. There is something less appealing. It is Her Majesty's Press larding on the hints of the insta‑judgment to which they have come on the matter.
"Malice" just happened to be the first word of the Telegraph's match report, while the Mail claimed Evra had been "left isolated". Both were fairly typical. This newspaper ran a poll in which the question was termed: "Should Evra be banned if his claim proves false?"
Mm. I'm rather sorry we missed the chance to run something similar a few days into the Dominique Strauss-Kahn business. "If the hotel maid's claim is proved false," it might have read, "should she be deported?" Let's hope that in the future, media organisations seeking new revenue streams will explore the possibility of lucrative, X Factor-style phone polling on these hot-button issues. Text the word MARTYR to 80051, or UPPITY to 80052.
Votes will cost 25p from a mobile, but the cost to society may be considerably more. It should go without saying that fostering a culture in which a player – any player – feels able to raise allegations of racism without fear of an instant backlash is of interest to all right-thinking fans, no matter which team they support. It should go without saying, but it unfortunately doesn't, which is why Kick It Out was launching its latest three-week campaign at Saturday's game. As it turned out, the match will function as a curtain-raiser to an FA investigation into Evra's claims.
Ideally, the FA would have come out with an immediate statement along the lines of: "All accusations of racism are taken seriously, but all players are innocent until proven guilty." Instead they muttered something about "making inquiries", which downgrades the principles at stake. Indeed, it's clear many still regard any such official complaints as breaking ranks, as exemplified by the former United player Paul Parker, who wrote this week that Evra shouldn't have caused "a public fuss", but just mentioned it informally to Kenny Dalglish.
Yet the real required reading on the issues raised by this current storm is a 2007 Mail interview with Manchester City's Joleon Lescott, in which the then Everton player recalled his experience of making an allegation of racism to the FA. Lescott submitted that the Newcastle midfielder Emre Belezoglu had called Joseph Yobo a "fucking negro", while his team-mate Tim Howard submitted that he had heard "fucking nigger". It was this disparity that led to the allegation being deemed unproven. Lescott was furious, as he had been all along. On the match day, he felt both clubs were trying to play down the alleged incident. He bridled that the players were advised not to say anything to the media. But the FA hearing disillusioned Lescott most. "It felt like we were on trial as much as Emre was," he said. "I felt hurt by it, having gone to the trouble of making a complaint, attending the hearing, making a stand." He said he had spoken to many black players who had endured "a lot worse", and that he would think twice before wearing a Kick It Out shirt again.
Lescott gave that interview in 2007. What a long way we haven't come since – and those fixating on what they deem to be Evra's character will ensure any progress remains glacial. In football as in wider society, there are far too many people who claim that the real issue isn't racism, but people making false accusations of racism, just as there are plenty of people who prefer to think that false accusations of rape are more of a problem than rape itself. They aren't.
Deliberately or not, too many miss the big picture, which is that any accusation of racism should be dignified, so that the next person who might have cause to make one sees that a fair hearing is at least a possibility. Naturally, the investigating authorities may find it unproven or malicious. But no incident should be blithely and hastily written off by people not in possession of all the evidence and testimony, but who reckon the accuser may be a wrong 'un. The apparent failure to realise this – even among people who would consider themselves intelligent observers of the game – illustrates how very far football and the society it reflects has to go.
PIPA23
retired :)
- 21 June 2007
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
from Suarez facebook:
from Suarez facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/suarez16luis?sk=wall
gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
He should stop moaning and diving and cheating...that certainly isn't playing the game with the maximum illusion of a litle child who enjoys what he does...
And speaking about childeren: players like Suarez tend to forget that they are supposed to be role models for childeren. Is this bullshit? No it isn't with the maximum mediatisation of football players should be aware of that...if they weren't such larger than life role models they would earn much less. There is really no excuse for the behaviour of some players, including Suarez.
Am i saying that Suarez did say racist things? No i am not. He is innocent until provden guilty. But without being racist he is behaving enough like an arse hole. That is a pity because he is a joy to watch.
He should stop moaning and diving and cheating...that certainly isn't playing the game with the maximum illusion of a litle child who enjoys what he does...
And speaking about childeren: players like Suarez tend to forget that they are supposed to be role models for childeren. Is this bullshit? No it isn't with the maximum mediatisation of football players should be aware of that...if they weren't such larger than life role models they would earn much less. There is really no excuse for the behaviour of some players, including Suarez.
Am i saying that Suarez did say racist things? No i am not. He is innocent until provden guilty. But without being racist he is behaving enough like an arse hole. That is a pity because he is a joy to watch.
TikTikTikTikTik
*****
- 7 August 2004
- Liverpool
Re: Liverpool Thread(I Just Can't Get Enough!!)
I thought that was the reason he would role around on the floor and moan when he doesn't get his way...
I thought that was the reason he would role around on the floor and moan when he doesn't get his way...