Liverpool Thread

Re: Liverpool Thread

rockykabir said:
Morientes is just one of those players who had everything. He was a good player...the signs were that he was unfit having not played for so long. I'm telling you - a Morientes in top form would do wonders for us. I would actually rate him more than the other strikers (Crouch and Cisse).

The only way to build a player's confidence is to let them play - which Rafa has been doing. Its just foolish to think he's playing just cos he is Spanish - we should all know by now that Rafa isn't shallow enough to jeopardise his whole team for his own nationalistic desires.

The thing with Cisse is that he has plenty of pace...but thats about it. He just isn't able to pass players. Maybe its the confidence thing? I dunno..but Rafa feels that he doesn't fit into the style of play of the team. I'm not going to disagree with a manager who has done wonders for our team (not only the European cup but look at how good we are defensively now).


Crouch maybe this unfashionable player but that is the way Rafa plays. With Valencia he had Carew upfront. I'll give Crouch a bit more time.

Fowler - a player that oozes class in finishing. However, he is not even a drop of the player he once was. There is always a wish inside that we will see that explosive player come out but I don't think it'll be anytime soon or ever. But this really depends on Fowler himself. We know he loves the club, but he's gonna have to work damn hard to convince Benitez to keep him. Never underestimate passion. I get this feeling however that now he has equalled Dalglish's record, a huge weight has been taken off his back. Will he return? Only time will tell I guess.

I will like to see Sinama Pongolle return. He just gave us this extra something (especially as a sub) that the others weren't able to.

I love Rafa but my main worry with him and his team are their buying skills. He's excellent at utilising players he has got but I found that his purchases have been a lil' here and there. A skill that someone like Wenger excels in. Although, having said that, the purchase of Simao would have really helped things as he looks class.
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see what i do not like is that rafa feel's that morientes has to keep playing to get his confidence back he never gives cisse any games. Since the summer rafa has destroyed cisse's confidence. in pre-season cisse was looking real sharp then the whole owen saga began and rava never backed cisse at all.. ijust think cisse has never been given a fair go under rafa. he will be sold and wherever he goes he will score a ton of goals. his record for auxerre is outstanding.

the two strikers rafa never signed. cisse and sinama are the two who have seem to be treated real bad while morientes and the donkey crouch are treated like superstars.

when crouch plays we tend to play it long too much. all attacks have to go through him. also he is rubbish in the air.

have you actually seen cisse at axuerre?
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

I'm not anticipating Rocky's post and don't know what he'll say but whatever it is I hope he doesn't come out with saying that was Auxerre this is Liverpool and EPL the wrong and cliche argument due to wrong belief of some UK people that EPL defence >>>>> 100 times better than Ligue 1 teams/defence cuz it's not really true! It sure is better though but not by as much as you think.

You're not comparing SPL and Eredivisie to EPL but Ligue 1 and thats a very competitive league!

No disrespect but I can see many avg players in Ligue 1 or EPL or even ones on bench go to Rangers or Celtic and finish among the top-scorers of the league.

In anycase I'm not here to defend Cisse at all as in fact I think he's been crap since coming over to Pool. Of course the injury didn't help either and yeah in some ways he never has been given proper support by manager or by fans but in anycase he has himself to blame as well. His performacnes have been crap, not only does he not score goals but at least Crouch is a better FOOTBALL player than Cisse who also has very avg technique, cant do very simple passes even and crosses 1 out of every 12 is decent!

Liverpool need some new strikers for new season, thats' for sure! They have 4 and none are good enough at moment and won't be able to get Liverpool where they aim to be unless improved/replaced.

Morientes and Fowler both are past peak and you can see their gradual decrase in ability over past couple years for Fowler actually 3-4 years.

Crouch just isn't a goal-getter, never will be in my opinion but a better player than a goal-scorer, Cisse just been crap, has been given chances but he's not cutting it.

Liverpool need some REAL goal-scorers for next season, at least 2 real quality strikers!
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I reckon defoe is best bet for liverpool. I can seriously see him leaving spurs next season. But liverpool will need to sell some of their shit strikers so they can make room and promise Defoe first team football. Since thats the one thing I think will tempt him away from spurs and of course the attration of CL football.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Yeah good one. Defoe could be a good capture and might get tempted and come as long as he's promised regular 1st choice action.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I think defoe and crouch would cause lots of problems for any defensives since both of their game is so different. Bit like how Owen and Heskey was together.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

what chance cissé has had?When cissé plays most of the time he plays as right winger or the last ten minute as a CF. the guy deserves at least to be tried as regulary as morientes or crouch like a CF AND NOT RW so what i mean is with all the problem which liverpool has to score rafa should try another option
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I rated Cisse in Auxerre...I was quite excited when he came (as were many others). I'm quite bamboozled as to why Rafa didn't play him more...but tbh, whenever he played, he was a bit cack. Maybe its the confidence thing.

I don't really look into this whole "this player played well in this league A so he should be just as good in league B." Sometimes, for various reasons, it just doesn't work out (i.e. family, injuries etc...). Mendieta was one of the biggest players in the Spanish league yet things hadn't worked out in Italy. Lets not forget that Cisse had broken his leg as well.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Yeah exactly Rocky!

@Alain, it sure is stupid to play Cisse as RWF/RM as he has VERY Crap crossing/passing anyway but hey man you act like Cisse has got ZERO proper chances at CF since he's come and that's not true! He's had his chances as well although not as regularly as Morientes this season for example or in proper position but this ain't even his first season.. so over 2 years although he missed a large chunk of it due to that nasty injury, he has had SOME chances but like Rocky said he's been crap even when played from start in PROPER position so i dont think he should be defended like you're defending him.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

rockykabir said:
I think one of the reasons Rafa don't play Cisse is his selfishness. Working as a unit has been a major characteristic in his teams - maybe thats also the reason why Rafa wasn't so keen in signing Owen.
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Yeah he wants them all to be like robots defending. Similar to how chelsea play as unit.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Working as a unit doesn't prevent you from playing attractive football (look at Valencia). Chelsea do what they do best, playing direct football as a unit. As long as you're winning games, I don't think they mind.

I'm just hoping our play heads more towards Valencia's way ;)
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Liverpool have been playing like this only recently since the spurs game. People forget the sublime football we played in parts of last season and also at the beginning of this season. I don't know whether its fatigue or when Crouch plays or some other reason but it isn't pretty. Regarding Defoe, Wright-phillips, Owen etc why would Liverpool be interested in these players when Defoe and Wright-phillips aren't good enough for their existing teams and Owen is past it they're all overrated. I know our strikers are shit at the moment but if Liverpool are to be taken seriously as title contenders we need to buy quality starting with Simão and not spurs or chavski rejects, other teams would love to see Liverpool go back to the Houllier days when we bored the opposition to death with route one Heskey and Owen football
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

i really don't get it when people say sell cisse and sign defoe. how would defoe fit into rafa's system. its pretty obvious that rafa like strikers who come deep and play with back to goal. defoe plays on the shoulder like cisse.

honestly i can't see it happening. yep when crouch plays we can be very unattractive. some fans don't like to admit it but some our football is real ugly.

to the people who say cisse cannot cross. he is a CF, not a RW. put crouch or mori there and see what they do. do you remember when rafa use to put sinama there. sinama was never effective as it is not his position.

like i have said before. cisse have never started 3 games in a row at liverpool. how can a player ever pick up form like that. when people say all cisse has is pace and no ability i laugh. how can a player with no abilty score 26 goals in 38 games. damn the french leage has plenty of fast strikers. i don't see any of them with the ratio cisse had for axuerre.

oh and if rafa thought that cisse might have a good world cup to raise interest his plan has backfired as cisse will not be going to the world cup. the france manager likes him but he won't take him if he sits on the liverpool bench.

another interesting note, on a french sports channel this week they were talking about cisse. mentioned that mori and cisse do not get on and rafa has backed morientes..
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

kobashi said:
to the people who say cisse cannot cross. he is a CF, not a RW. put crouch or mori there and see what they do. do you remember when rafa use to put sinama there. sinama was never effective as it is not his position
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That has nothing to do with one's ability to cross the ball.

As a footballer it doesn't hurt to have some general good skills like trapping/controlling the ball, passing it around, crossing it whether you're playing as central defender or CF or right winger, these will be of use because you will need them sometime obviously more so if you're the right winger of course though and Cisse is indeed crap at it and yes I believe even more so than Morientes or Crouch if they were to cross balls and in general his passing is very crap, much crappier than Crouch anyway.

I already did say it's stupid of Rafa to play him as RWF or right midfielder so I don't know why we have to talk about that again, same way Sinama was also used there and yes I like you don't approve of that either and that was also ineffective. Doesn't change the fact that Cisse's crossing ability is $hit, worst than many central defenders I can name! and there is no excuse for it cuz you can't say you dont need it if you play as CF cuz even if you played him as out and out striker which I hope to see him play at soon you still need some decent skills like good crossing/passing and so he'd still like any other forward at some crucial point in match get into position near sidelines where he needs to deliver good cross and again 9/10 times he'd overhit it or underhit or just get direction totally wrong for a goal-kick and basically let you down.

Saying he's a CF not a RWF or RM isn't a good excuse for how crap his crossing is. Hell even most central defenders at this top level are expected to be able to put a better ball than that into the box if needed.

another interesting note, on a french sports channel this week they were talking about cisse. mentioned that mori and cisse do not get on and rafa has backed morientes..
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Intersting.. if true I can see why poor Cisse lacks confidence. When you're hardly getting any support, it's hard to get your spirits up and perform to best of your ability especially when like you said he's also never started a consistent number of games so hard to get into good form and hell on top of that many times this season even played out of position on the side.
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

MO_DINERO said:
why would Liverpool be interested in these players when Defoe and Wright-phillips aren't good enough for their existing teams
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It's got nothing to do with them not being good enough for their existing teams, but rather down to their managers decisions. They're both very good young established EPL players.

As for the Cisse situation, there were rumours that like Baros Benitez just can't work with the guy and that's down to his ability, Baros was renowned for running head down in straight lines and wasting clear cut chances.

Cisse on the other hand, no touch, no composure, can't time his runs properly and can't finish and that miss at Old Trafford a few weeks back seems to have finally sealed his fate.

As for Crouch he was never brought in to score 20+ goals, but to add a new dimension to the team and when we first bought him in I wasn't to happy about that. But TBH he has proven me wrong I think he has done very well for himself & the team unlike Morientes & Cisse atleast he has worked hard to improve himself when things weren't going right.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

apparently, inside information says that cisse and nandos deals have already been sorted, theyre off somewhere

Owen deal is almost complete and a yakubu deal is in process.

this is the same inside information who stated fowler would be joining liverpool, one month before he did.

i hope its true
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Owen... :eh: (injury prone atm)
Yakubu... :D

kevano22 said:
apparently, inside information says that cisse and nandos deals have already been sorted, theyre off somewhere

Owen deal is almost complete and a yakubu deal is in process.

this is the same inside information who stated fowler would be joining liverpool, one month before he did.

i hope its true
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Re: Liverpool Thread

Whats all this Crouch bashing? On our 10 game run he was instrumental in the teams performances and he played good stuff. crouch is an excellent player. Sure he may not look the part and look unorthodox but the lad can play and expect to see much more of him. As for the price well maybe 7 million is too much but when have you seen an english player go on the cheap? When you buy English it costs you.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I don't rate Crouch - simple as that. He is a lanky streak of piss who isn't that good in the air for a tall boy!? He looks like a Championship player to me - not good enough for a team like L'pool anyway.
Morientes used to be a fantastic striker. He was awesome at Monaco after leaving Real Madrid - what happened?
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

ninjabreakz said:
I don't rate Crouch - simple as that. He is a lanky streak of piss who isn't that good in the air for a tall boy!? He looks like a Championship player to me - not good enough for a team like L'pool anyway.
Morientes used to be a fantastic striker. He was awesome at Monaco after leaving Real Madrid - what happened?
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he is this kind of player who is not suited at all for the PL as simple as that
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Maybe but I don't fully agree with that.

Had he come in his peak perhaps EPL and English fans could've seen the REAL Fernando Morientes and then we'd know if he really isn't suited dto EPL or not.

But many of these players wait and wait and wait and once they're past peak and they're decreasing in physical stats/composure and all the things that made them great one day then they also come to EPL where adjusting for a player to the speed and intensity of the league could be much and take long even for a player in his PEAK. Let alone Morientes who is clearly not half the finisher/player he was in his peak a few years ago.

what happened? he got old and started degreading in ability like many others.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

PLF said:
Maybe but I don't fully agree with that.

Had he come in his peak perhaps EPL and English fans could've seen the REAL Fernando Morientes and then we'd know if he really isn't suited dto EPL or not.

But many of these players wait and wait and wait and once they're past peak and they're decreasing in physical stats/composure and all the things that made them great one day then they also come to EPL where adjusting for a player to the speed and intensity of the league could be much and take long even for a player in his PEAK. Let alone Morientes who is clearly not half the finisher/player he was in his peak a few years ago.

what happened? he got old and started degreading in ability like many others.
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Very well said. And pretty much sums up the whole situation.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Yeah don't mean to go too much off topic but there's been a lot of these players coming to EPL after they're already gone past their peak and are in decline in last few years which then means obviously they won't play very well or make expected impact and might make some EPL fans either believe, their league is very high standard and good or better defenders or that this guy wasn't suited for EPL.

Another good example of this was the introduction of Lethal Walter Pandiani to EPL.

In his peak just a few years ago, this guy was keeping one of the best strikers in La Liga, Diego Tristan on bench cuz of amazing finishing, great sharpness and response and he really was like a rifle hence the nickname! :)

But it was obvious he was going downhill and had lost sharpness/stamina/speed and some fight with Irureta led to him being loaned out to Birmingham City and then they made move permanent. And of couse we know what happened from there.. he never performed on a consistent basis well enough for the club as he's simply not the old "Pandiani" anymore and this is a guy who in his peak if he had been in EPL, he would've been good enough for the biggest of teams in there and possible a huge success in my opinion.

But came too late to this wonderful league and when he wasn't the same player anymore and so ended up not living up to hype but it doesnt mean he wasn't suited the league cuz he could be, we wouldn't know though unless we saw him at his best in EPL like we did in La Liga not when he's just a shadow of his former-self.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Sabac Red said:
It's got nothing to do with them not being good enough for their existing teams, but rather down to their managers decisions.
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Tottenham are in a strong position to qualify for the Champions League and Chavski are going to win the league I'd say the managers are picking the right players for the job, Defoe and Wright-Phillips are fringe players and if Liverpool are going to be title contenders they need to look a bit higher.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

kevano22 said:
WTF.Cisse.WTF

You Cisse raters must smoke drugs
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Eh!as usual he is playing on the right wing...But what a GREAT second goal!!well done gerrard!!;)
 
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