Liverpool Thread

[TheJinxedOne]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Will Carroll stay anyway?Hope not really.And his comparisons with Drogba... pathetic.

Looks set too as 'pool rejected a loan bid from Newcastle, though Villa and West Ham are both still sniffing around.

 

[DagsJT]

Re: Liverpool Thread

BaZ ‏@BazLFC19
@BenSmithBBC Is this Walcott stuff the real deal Ben? Or another Mata like story?

Ben Smith ‏@BenSmithBBC
@BazLFC19 No there is interest in Walcott. Nothing more concrete than that.

 

[PIPA23]

Re: Liverpool Thread

some great pics from melwood today:

Spoiler

 

[PIPA23]

Re: Liverpool Thread

full list of Reds going to America tour:

Easier to read list:

Goalkeepers
Peter Gulacsi
Brad Jones
Danny Ward

Defenders
Daniel Agger
Jamie Carragher
Jon Flanagan
Stephen Sama
Brad Smith
Glen Johnson
Jose Enrique
Martin Skrtel
Danny Wilson
Martin Kelly
Ryan McLaughlin
Andre Wisdom
Jack Robinson

Midfielders
Charlie Adam
Alberto Aquilani
Joe Cole
Suso
Lucas Leiva
Stewart Downing
Steven Gerrard
Jordan Henderson
Jonjo Shelvey
Jay Spearing
Raheem Sterling
Jordon Ibe

Strikers
Adam Morgan
Andy Carroll
Daniel Pacheco
Krisztian Adorjan
Fabio Borini
Nathan Eccleston

 

[goalgerd]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Apparently Newcastle will start the bidding for Andy Carroll at 13mil sterling,if Liverpool can get them to 15mil or over they should sell

 

[PIPA23]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Carroll should not be sold for that money now, but if Rodgers insist he won´t have place in the team, he will be gone..

still i hope he will have a good American tour to fight for his future with us...

 

[goalgerd]

Re: Liverpool Thread

http://www.football365.com/f365-says/7904244/F365-Says

interesting read

 

[koolaje]

Re: Liverpool Thread

I really haven't got a clue why everybody assumes that BR doesn't want Carroll. Is it the Media playing up?

 

[DagsJT]

Re: Liverpool Thread

If Rodgers wants Carroll out then that's fine, as long as we get some decent money for him (£12m upwards). He should be allowed to make this team his own and it'd be unfair to force him to keep players around that he doesn't believe would work in his system.

In saying that, if Newcastle think they can be cheeky with crap offers, then keep Carroll for "Plan B" eventualities.

 

[beachryan]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Surely £15m is about right for Carroll? Given his age/ goal scoring record and ignoring the ridiculous fee from last year?

Anyway, I just like to see footballers able to play, especially the decent ones. Like I want United to sell Berbatov to anyone at all, so at least he's on the pitch somewhere. If big Andy doesn't fit hte system, he should go somewhere where he'll be appreciated, not left on a bench to depreciate (literally)

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

Re: Liverpool Thread

So did Borini sign then? I was away for the weekend...

Nevermind, found the news.

If liverpool can get anything near the 20mil they will have done well. Not sure what would be best though, let him stay or leave. Either way a loan sounds like a waste of time.

 

[PLF]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Ryan, I agree. And yeah that price tag is perfect. That amount of anything above, I say cut your losses. Otherwise keep as his value can only go higher from here I believe.

IMO Drogba was already very good at Guingamp where he formed a sucessfull attacking pair with Dagano...

Guingamp was one season and that was when he was 24 already! And it was with Malouda where they both had break through seasons and a great understanding. Florent setting Didier up for goals and that was the beginning of a great friendship between those two.

If I recall correctly, Dagano was Drogba's replacement the season after once he moved to OM. The same summer Malouda went to Lyon I think. Difference is Drogba only stayed at OM for one year where as Malouda for a few yeras at Lyon before they met up in Chelsea again.

indeed. i agree with Sina on this one. sure, chances are carroll won't ever be the next drogba or the next ruud or the next toni.... but he will most likely improve his game and develop into a good player (perhaps a very good player, who knows).

and even if he wouldn't, what do u guys have to lose at this point? loaning him would be just plain silly (as many of u seem to realize)... selling him is virtually impossible right now (which club would buy him and at what price?).
signing carroll for that ridiculous pricetag was a monumental mistake... that transfer will probably go down in history as one of the biggest fails on the market.
but selling carroll right now would be an even bigger mistake (and would also make liverpool owners look like complete idiots). u don't sell your assets when they're worth absolutely nothing. u wait until their value goes up a bit (and by "a bit" i mean "as much as possible").
no one would ever do something that stupid. and if liverpool owners would even consider such a possibility right now, that would make them the biggest clowns in european football. they're newbies, okay, and it seems they still have a lot to learn about how to run a football club..... but they're certainly not that stupid or naive... to put carroll on the market right now.... i just refuse to believe they would really consider such a move.

Finally some common sense. Business 101 really but it's amazing how many 'Men' make totally 'emotional' decisions and judgements. Same reason many will never be good businessmen or managers.

Easy. He can go to the USA.

MLS pays good wages to its designated players which Gerrard would certainly be but we were talking about transfer fees and how much Liverpool would be able to get from selling him off. MLS nor any other club would pay more than $13M or so for a 32-year old somewhat injury prone player who's past his best.

So he's a lot more useful to Liverpool than he'll be elsewhere.

As for the Drogba vs Carroll arguments, Carroll is not half the player Drogba was at this age, and as for developing he will never be as good as Drogba.

Your whole post was classic there. A Man Utd fan giving opinions on Stevie G usually is.

But this is the part that stood out the most. You're simply talking out of your ass here now. Were you watching Drogba in Ligue 2 at THIS age scoring something like 12 goals in 60 odd games for Le Mans? I don't think so. I doubt you even saw him play for Guingamp, let alone Le Mans.

Didier was 24 when he finally had his first GOOD season and that was at Guingamp. A club where the only pressure was to avoid relegation! Carroll is 23 now and at the time he was bought by Liverpool for that ridiculous price tag, he had just TURNED 21!

And no as somebody who's watched them both, Carroll at 20 and 21 was DEFINTIELY much better than Drogba at 20 and 21. Similarly right now he's better than a 23-year old Drogba.

BUT the big question is, will he ever become as good as Drogba got from 25 and up and have that great growth? I don't think so.

Will Carroll stay anyway?Hope not really.And his comparisons with Drogba... pathetic.

Pathetic is not being able to read.

Go back and read the posts and you'll see there was only one reason why Drogba and Ruud van Nistelrooy got compared to Andy Carroll and it was certainly not because of ability nor style of play. You clearly missed the point.

 

[PIPA23]

Re: Liverpool Thread

i bow down to that post PLF.

 

[bebo]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Downing didn't even play for England in Euro's. Obviously it was Gerrard's crosses. I know that. Read what I posted again.

Gerrard's crosses to Carroll's head = Goal against Sweden and numerous other chances for England.

I was just saying that Downing is capable of crosses like that as well.

I think those are 2 players whom IF given chances and backing, will do much better next season than last.

But we'll see if they even get that chance.

I know your 'predictions' are scarey accurate ,but Downing?! your down 9/10 dont let Downing bring you down

Pipa your such a gem I wish we had a gooner to provide us with such info.

 

[matherto]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Downing has never been a decent crosser to be fair. One in a million might be good but they're usually always nowhere near the player he was aiming for.

 

[PLF]

Re: Liverpool Thread

I disagree matherto but I guess we each can have our own opinion on his crossing ability. It's subjective after all.

For me, it's one of his better attributes. It's not like he was ever the super fast skilful dribbler type of winger who'd dart past full-backs. He had decent speed and decent skills but what made him effective was his good crossing abilities. And that with both feet! Which is something very rare for a LEFT-footed player! He's definitely got an above average right-foot for a left-footed player.

I know your 'predictions' are scarey accurate ,but Downing?! your down 9/10 dont let Downing bring you down

I don't understand what you mean.

???

 

[PIPA23]

Re: Liverpool Thread

some rumours about Carroll that he will be gone before even joining rest of the squad on American tour...

 

[bebo]

Re: Liverpool Thread

your views on Downing and what he could do. For me your spot on with predicting players n such .I remember Fabregas vs Inestia and you thought both players will be incredible and Fabregas might be young ,but you thought he will be a vital player in the future and that was in `05 . I think Downing is not special and is a let down.

 

[PLF]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Nah man, if I were spot on, I'd be a scout or something, not sitting here posting on a forum. I get plenty of players wrong and make misjudgements like everyone else.

But let me make myself abundantly clear if I haven't already, I'm not saying Downing will go on to be some great player or anything. Not at all, hell he's already 27, isn't he?

I was just saying that I think him and Carroll will have a much better SEASON next year than they did last. That's all. Because I don't think they're as BAD as people say. They just underachieved and underperformed last year. Next year I expect them both to play more up to their abilities which is good but not great.

 

[bebo]

Re: Liverpool Thread

awe the modesty card, can`t lose wit ya on that!

 

[beachryan]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Downing is talented, and has a wand for a left boot - but doesn't have the mentality to cut it at the top level. Never seizes responsibility or makes himself key to the team. It's an under-rated facet of the game that largely gets ignored, but it's a differentiator at the top level.

What I'm waiting for is Liverpool to have a great start to the season, and then the die-hard, fanatical reds re-evaluating King Kenny...

 

[Liverbird]

Re: Liverpool Thread

and even if he wouldn't, what do u guys have to lose at this point? loaning him would be just plain silly (as many of u seem to realize)... selling him is virtually impossible right now (which club would buy him and at what price?).
signing carroll for that ridiculous pricetag was a monumental mistake... that transfer will probably go down in history as one of the biggest fails on the market.
but selling carroll right now would be an even bigger mistake (and would also make liverpool owners look like complete idiots). u don't sell your assets when they're worth absolutely nothing. u wait until their value goes up a bit (and by "a bit" i mean "as much as possible").
no one would ever do something that stupid. and if liverpool owners would even consider such a possibility right now, that would make them the biggest clowns in european football. they're newbies, okay, and it seems they still have a lot to learn about how to run a football club..... but they're certainly not that stupid or naive... to put carroll on the market right now.... i just refuse to believe they would really consider such a move.

I dont agree at all. If reports are true and Liverpool can get about 40 % of what we paid it then we have to sell him. The decision of keeping or selling Carroll should have nothing to do with the fact we paid 40M E for him. That was an awful decision but it doesnt matter now.
One basic in business, is that you cant let bad decisions from the past influence in decisions for the future.

 

[mathewsss]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Liverpool should cut their losses, 15m is more than enough.

But whether we should sell to Newcastle is a different point. They're the ones who ripped us off to begin with. I think Liverpool should sell Carroll to some other club.

 

[koolaje]

Re: Liverpool Thread

I wouldn't say they ripped us really, it was days away from the end of the transfer window and LFC was in a "name-your-price" mood when talking about Carroll as was Torres to Chelsea.

 

[Misfit]

Re: Liverpool Thread

I wouldn't say they ripped us really, it was days away from the end of the transfer window and LFC was in a "name-your-price" mood when talking about Carroll as was Torres to Chelsea.

in a sense youre right.we were not ripped off.we were just absolute mugs,typical of us for years in the transfer market.it was all fine back in the day to put it all on coco.now?

the same folks who were goin on about "forget the transfer fee,talent is there" are the ones who are sayin we shouldnt sell any lower than x amount of money.carrol is and will always be a donkey.a donkey that that either a fool/genius(dalglish) bought or a genius/fool(rodgers) sold.a mistake that the ones who brought him to LFC have been rightfully sacked.

hodgson brought crap to the club(konch,poulsen etc) and was rightfully slated.but when kk did the same,no one is sayin a thing.downing-joke,adam-joke,hendo for the price-joke,carrol-epic swindle.whats even more amusing is the torres reasoning(im lookin at you pipa).

now,brendan rodgers is looking,imo to be goin down the same road.it worries me when his targets are siggy(ex swansea),borini(ex swansea),joe fuckin allen(swansea,last seasons charlie fat adam)who is rumored to be in the same price range we will sell carrol for.so much for scouting.tiki taka football?swansea finished about the same as fuckin norwich.lambert is a genius now?willing to bet my bottom fuckin dollar that no one heard of brendan rodgers 2 or 3 yrs ago.these are the same clowns who think that joe allen is the next xavi with his pass stats last season.

groundhog day..........

ps:could someone please quote this post as by crimbo i could say"told ya so"

 

[PIPA23]

Re: Liverpool Thread

rumours we are after Zenit midfielder Igor Denisov as second choice to Dempsey or Allen.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Liverpool Thread

I dont agree at all. If reports are true and Liverpool can get about 40 % of what we paid it then we have to sell him. The decision of keeping or selling Carroll should have nothing to do with the fact we paid 40M E for him. That was an awful decision but it doesnt matter now.
One basic in business, is that you cant let bad decisions from the past influence in decisions for the future.

if there's someone out there willing to pay 18\20 million pounds for him, than sure, go for it. if the coach doesn't want him, let hiim go, as u're probably never gonna get more than this. but do u sincerely believe there's a nutcase willing to pay that sum for carroll right now??? i find it extremely unlikely.

however guys, by reading your posts, i realise u lot are completely unfamiliar with the very concept of "loss" http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalloss.asp#axzz20sOGAC9Y
....the key part being "This loss is not realized until the asset is sold"

i see u guys making comments like "we gotta cut our losses" or "One basic in business, is that you cant let bad decisions from the past influence in decisions for the future." this is absolutely not correct, people. infact it's the exact opposite. u define your losses (or profits) by considering how much u did invest (wich is obviously what u'd call "a decision from the past").

the truth is, right now u haven't lost anything yet on the "carroll investment", because u haven't sold him yet. only once u will have sold him, u will have realised a loss (or a profit).
simple example: a company buys a building for 100. the following year the market goes down and the value of that building decreases to 50. is that a loss? NO, because u haven't sold the building yet. if u sell the building when the market is down then yes, u have generated a loss. but if u don't sell it and wait, then u haven't lost a single cent. perhaps in 3 years the market could go up again and u might be able to sell that building for the same price you bought it for, or even for a higher price (in wich case u'd make a profit).

the same applies to football players: palermo bought ilicic 2 years ago for 2 millions. by the end of his first season in palermo he was worth 15 millions (as a matter of fact we rejected a 15 millions offer). but we didn't sell him then. his second season was a disaster and now his value on the market is about 5 millions. are we going to sell him this summer? hell no! we're gonna wait for his performances to get better (and for his pricetag to grow accordingly) so we can make a better profit. our new coach made it pretty clear ilicic isn't in his plans, but the club told him "well change your plans then, coz we can't lose a shitload of money only because u don't believe in him".
as u can easily realise, all those pricetag fluctuations are absolutely irrelevant. the only value that will actually matter will be the value we eventually decide to sell him for. it's pretty obvious, isn't it?
so far ilicic isn't a loss nor a profit for us. and the same goes for carroll; carroll will only become a loss (or a profit) once u decide to sell him. so saying "we gotta cut our losses" makes no sense, because there's no loss yet.

and to say that the club has got to ignore how much they paid for carroll is nonsense too. because only by considering how much u paid for an investment u can value that investment as a profit or a loss. the fans should ignore his pricetag...... carroll himself should try and ignore his pricetag..... but the club can't afford to ignore that.
the only tool to evaluate an investment as a loss or a profit is "capital gain\loss" and u can't even assess that value if u ignore how much u spent on the investment in the first place.

carroll just had a pretty lousy season, wich obviously effected his value. if u sell him now then yes, u will realise a monumental loss. if u keep him his value can only increase (because seriously how many of u really believe he will score less than 6 goals next season!?!). even if he had another poor season, it will inevitably be at least a bit better than the last one (6 goals in 42 appearances... he just can't do any worse than that).

and even if he wouldn't improve and his pricetag wouldn't increase, keeping him one year more would allow u to distribute the capital loss over 2 financial years (wich would make the capital loss a lot less dramatic for your balance sheet).

if u would sell carroll right now for, say, 18 millions pounds, that would mean a capital loss of 17 millions over a singe financial year. in any industry, such a monumental failure would force the ceo to resign. such an operation would make liverpool the laughing stock of european football. plain and simple.

 

[gerd]

Re: Liverpool Thread

Denisov is good, very good. But most Russian players fail abroad.

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

Re: Liverpool Thread

rumours we are after Zenit midfielder Igor Denisov as second choice to Dempsey or Allen.

Well he is a much better player than Joe Allen, I would say Denisov is a almost a World Class player and could be an exceptional signing for any Premier League team. He is a superb athlete and a fantastically tenacious ball winner. But I really don't see him as a Rodgers style player. He's too industrious, too much of a ball winner for Rodgers. Rodgers seems to like small passers who are arent really ball winners. I also think Denisov would cost a fair bit.

 

[PIPA23]

Re: Liverpool Thread

not sure how much truth is in Denisov link... Dempsey and Allen are favourites to next transfers..

i don´t belive we get Allen... but for Dempsey we need such player, especially with Dirk, Maxi, Downing and possible departure of Bellamy and Carroll...we need at least two more attacking players to replace this 4..Borini and Suarez won´t be enough..