Let's FIFA 11/12/13: Making the perfect football game.

Nick Cave said:
Commenting on the lack of handball in 10 on another site which I have copied here, it made me think about including more player characteristic and non human input into the game, as I stated I think this would add to the game but means some incidents and actions would be down to the individuality of the players rather than the pressing of a certain button combo! I'd be interested to know what you guys think of this...

I'd still love to see more variations on running and shooting styles and I know we all crave to see more individuality of players in the game stats wise and I feel this would only aid that!...


That opens a whole can of worms regarding other things. Do you want 100% control over your player and his actions or say a player with high aggression getting up and reacting or retaliating to a bad challenge by confronting the player, as happens in real life but is not as a direct button press by you?

This would bring more realism into the game for me but would mean some things were not 100% human controlled...
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I agree this is what I was talking about to get more individuality in the players we need to have the players doing things for themselves instead of down to the human input... ;)
 
bloody hell, shows what I wrote has already been covered.

Serves me right for not reading every post!

It should defo be in
 
Just a small thing that's been bugging me with EA's football games for a few years now, but why can I only change the 'on-the-fly' tactics with the d-pad when the ball is in play? I want to be able to change my team's attack/defence setting and quick tactics when the ball is out of play, not when I'm trying to control my player.
 
I promise I'll tidy this up when I get the chance, but in the meantime, here's what happens when you type out your stream of consciousness...



I don't feel like shots plateau soon enough. Consequently goals can look a bit too similar to each other, because they often hit the back of the net while still rising. It's also why shots from long range are so dangerous - because the ball plateaus very late shots have a flat trajectory, so provided you are facing goal almost any shot below a certain power bar %age is pretty threatening. On the other hand, you have finesse shots which do dip, but those in themselves are so predictable in terms of dip and swerve that they feel like a separate exploit, particularly on manual controls.

The current ball trajectory trends very much towards this goal by Steven Carr (though you can see the ball dropping once it has travelled most of the distance):

YouTube - Stephen Carr V Man Utd

You don't seem to get the odd goal like

this from Nani

because, unless you are hitting a dipping volley or an equally uniform finesse shot, the ball almost always seems to follow that fairly straight trajectory.

Comparing it to these three goals (and apologies to flores as I don't mean to belittle what are still very good goals):

Mexico 4 - 1 United States (Giovanni Dos Santos) | EA SPORTS Football World)
Mexico 2 - 0 United States (Gigi Franco) | EA SPORTS Football World
United States 2 - 0 Mexico (Ricardo Clark) | EA SPORTS Football World

You can see that all three of the goals saved here pretty much follow straight line trajectories. Consequently these shots from the edge of the box would be just as dangerous 30, 35, even 40 yards out. They wouldn't swerve away from goal, and there wouldn't be enough of an arc for the ball to drop to a safe height for the keeper/bounce and lose horizontal speed.

I also feel that increasing the general ball movement, both vertically and in terms of increased swerve due to imperfect connections with the ball, would have considerable benefit in reducing the number of 40 yard efforts. In order for the ball to reach the goal at top corner height from a great distance you should have had to put a hefty amount of power into the shot. If you put less power in then the ball should be more likely to drop and bounce before reaching the goal, losing some forward speed, or being at a height that is more manageable for the keeper.

By putting more power in you are reducing control, and should therefore be met with a less predictable result when shooting from greater distances. Therefore shots from 40 yards are much more unlikely to go in or be a significant threat than currently.


Obviously you do get goals that hit the back of the net still rising from great distances, but those are perfect connections. I'm saying I feel it needs to be mixed up a lot more to
(a) make these perfect connections feel special,
(b) reduce the effectiveness of 40 yard shooting,
(c) make each shot feel unique and organic.
 
I've seen goals from 45 yards in Clubs where the player has accurately drilled it low and hard into the bottom corner and the keeper had no chance.

I've also seen a goal like the Nani one above but I dismissed it as a fluke/cheat/assisted goal because the ball moved at a ridiculous speed. The Tele camera struggled to keep up with it.

Very few teams in Clubs have cohesion to their play, when they get to certain spots on the pitch they intentionally let rip.
 
Depends how often you just shoot from 40 or 50 yarMIt'It much like any exploit - it's only a problem if anyone uses it, and the CPU is generally pretty responsible about this. It's there though - shooting from that distance is too accurate and the flight of the ball is low and straight enough to cause more of a problem than it should.
 
Hi,

I think they will add new leagues from the below:

South America:
1.Argentina League
2.Brazil League
3.Chelian League
4.Ecuador League

Europe:
4.Russia League
5.Romanian League
6.Grecce League
7.Ukrainan League

Africa:
8.Egypt League
9.South African League

Asian:
10.Saudi Arabia League
11.China League
12.Qatar League
13.UAE League
14.Japan League ( no chance in heel ) Konami got it for life

Ocenia:
14.New Zealand League


Come on guys and gals tell me what do you think
 
They need to make the marker colour over your head customisable. Its not too bad in Fifa 10 but in WC 2010 the shades of blue and the green are very similar and makes it really difficult to tell who is who when you are playing with 3 or 4 people on the same team. We usually play with 3 on the same side vs CPU and its ridiculous that I have to set up the 4th pad just so we can make one of us the yellow marker.

On the controller selection screen it should allow you to press the shoulder buttons to choose from a wide range of colours, a very simple change to implement.
 
Have quick throw ins been brought up? I assume they have - possibly by me - but they really are a must.

Also, is there really any point to the low behind the player angle for goal kicks and corners?
 
I'm happy with the camera angles for both; for corners maybe it should be a little higher, but I don't mind it being consistent with free kicks. For goal kicks I like that it stops you trying to plonk the ball onto someone's head with precision and instead makes them more of a lump forwards.

I'd be fine with a quick throw-in if the ball is right on the line as is the case for quick freekicks, but I'm not of fan of the idea of removing the black screen reset because if every throw could be quick, then people would spam that rather than the defence getting the chance to reorganise. If you want defences to reorganise then it has to take a short while to get the ball to the throw taker, and that'd mean us sitting around when we could be playing a football game. The blac screen is a necessary evil, and removing it would punish good defensive work or increase waiting times.

Just my two cents, anyway.

What do people think about throw-in fakes? I'd like to be able to pretend that I'm throwing to one player just to create space for another. It seems like a sensible way of allowing more creativity on throws without going overboard.
 
This lecture by Dino Dini might be interesting to watch.

http://dinodini.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/gdc-europe-2009-design-constraints-and-itegrity/

Also, I think if everyone puts in a little bit of effort we might be able to simply make a football game ourselves. Ok, hold on, dont worry about all the practical stuff just yet, its been done before so we can do it too. All i want to know is if you can see it happening and u are willing to do something, tiny or big, to make it happen. If this is the case add Im IN! to your signature.
 
I can't believe I'm actually suggesting this, especially since I suggested implementing it in PES2011 over on PESfan, but I've done a complete U turn.

I believe that the Trigger Teammate Run button should be removed as it is causing this arcadey end to end basketball type games that we constantly see online. When attacking it's second nature for the majority of players to immediately trigger forward runs by a number of their players creating an unrealistic forward surge and adding to the problem of constant forward passes, resulting in attack after attack after attack. For the people looking for realism and a flowing passing game (forward and backwards) in the game this isn't enjoyable.

This is one of the examples of how PES highlights the individuality of players/teams by mimicking their real life counterparts runs instead of every member of the team surging forward ie some fullbacks will bomb forward and join in attacks whilst some may stay back and hold their defensive line in real life. Currently these different types of players, play identically in FIFA because we decide to send them on runs whether they are that type of player or not.

I appreciate that this would only work in FIFA if the AI is improved and made better runs and off the ball decisions but surely the dodgy AI is one of the main things EA are looking to improve on for FIFA11.
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Stuart, It's a good suggestion. It's something to work towards, rather than to just go ahead and do, because you need to substitute the L1 run trigger with good AI, of a standard that neither game has really managed so far.

I kind of like being able to communicate with team mates though. It'd be interesting to leave L1 in as a 'point to space' command, but with the outcome being based on the personalities involved and the likelihood of the passer to complete the pass. Dunno, it's a pretty sketchy suggestion but, in BAP you can raise your hand for a pass. In Clubs this means you are telling your teammate you want the pass. It'd be nice to be able to tell people to make a run in such a way, but for the type of run, expenditure of effort and willingness to run in the first place were stat based.

Similarly, you could argue that secondary pressure should be removed, couldn't you? Which would require a pretty dramatic rethink from both dev studios (not that that should stop them).
 
I completely agree that the AI needs to be dramatically improved before this could be implemented but as I suggested above, surely the AI is one of the main things that EA should be working on this year......surely??
I always enjoyed playing single player PES back in the day where we relied on the AI moving our teammates into position (a last gen AI I would add) so I can't see how in this day an age a much improved AI would be an unrealistic request.
 
Stuart, there are several things they need to work on - player individuality, defensive positioning/AI, getting rid of ping pong passing.. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
 
Not sure if this has been mentioned already, however...

How about implementing a sort of "aftertouch"?

Once the pass power/direction/sweetspot thingy has registered you definitely should be allowed to further refine your passes (if you see fit, that's it, I believe the CPU already does this automatically for you on the more skillful players in FIFA 11, unless I'm mistaken).

The game should let you curl the ball either left or right and/or add top and back-spin to it by pushing the right stick left, right, forward or backward respectively (or a combination of at least two of them) and the outcome should be proportional to how long/deeply you held the stick in that peculiar direction and (to retain players' individuality) dependant on players' stats such as Vision, Passing and the likes.

Also stuff like

- players getting in the way of your Throw-in's, standing like 50 Cm. away from the player who's getting the ball back in play and

- players harrassing your GK while he's trying to get the ball back in play, hoping to get into the ball trajectory and deflect it into the net and

- players intercepting your short-goalkicks before the ball leaves the penalty box

should be fixed.

Btw, the FIFA official rules state the following regarding goalkicks:

# The kick can be taken from anywhere in the goal area (the small box) and is not in play until it has left the penalty area (the big box) into the field of play.
# After the kick, no player may touch it until it has left the penalty area. If they do, the goal kick is retaken.
# If the ball does not enter play, if it does not leave the penalty area or crosses the defender's goal line before entering play, then the goal kick is retaken. This applies even if it enters the kicking team's goal.
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and this, about Throw-in's:

All other players must stand at least 2 metres away from him, irrespective of which side they’re on.
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Thus, much like in PS2's Winning Eleven's, the opponents should be kept off by a sort of invisible barrier.
 
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Searain said:
Not sure if this has been mentioned already, however...

How about implementing a sort of "aftertouch"?

Once the pass power/direction/sweetspot thingy has registered you definitely should be allowed to further refine your passes (if you see fit, that's it, I believe the CPU already does this automatically for you on the more skillful players in FIFA 11, unless I'm mistaken).

The game should let you curl the ball either left or right and/or add top and back-spin to it by pushing the right stick left, right, forward or backward respectively (or a combination of at least two of them) and the outcome should be proportional to how long/deeply you held the stick in that peculiar direction and (to retain players' individuality) dependant on players' stats such as Vision, Passing and the likes.
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If you can swerve the ball after it has been passed, doesn't it make it very unrealistic? You can't have a straight pass animation and then having the ball curl a lot, that would look pretty bad. Or do you mean that you have a short time between the time you let go of the button and before the animation starts?

Otherwise you could pass, and then just when you passed you notice that it will go to the opposition and then start curling the ball. Or shoot and then start curling when you see how the keeper is positioned... So you would have to make this happen before you kicked the ball to be anything close to realistic.
 
Gab_ said:
Or do you mean that you have a short time between the time you let go of the button and before the animation starts?
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The intensity of the curl has got to be be time-dependant;

specifically, the time elapsed from the moment the pass registers should be inversely proportional to the amount of curl/spin you can add.

Basically, you'd add pretty much 80% of it in the short time between the pass button press and the moment the animation kicks in, and then you would be able add a tiny little bit thereafter.

Mastering such feature wouldn't be that easy since you'd have to be very quick, accurate and quite dextrous to make the ball go exactly where you wanted it to be (in addition to the pro-pass under/over-hitting sweet-spot thing which adds randomness to the passes themselves), it'd add another layer of depth to both the controls and the gameplay and, most importantly, it'd help to increase dramatically the skill ceiling (at least on Semi and Manual).
 
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Ok, here goes (all comments are re: fifa10, some might have been adressed in the WC game);

Stats: There needs to be an algorythm introduced to create an exaggeration in abilities between players/teams in the same league.
Due to the amount of players and teams in the game the difference between a div3 player and a div1 player is decent. However the difference between two div3 players is barely noticable which makes everyone feel generic. Due to the stat system this difference will always be minimal with the current system.
If you take a rough overview of teams and player stats div4 will be between 50-60 points, div3 60-70, div2 70-80 and the top leagues/players will have a range of 80-95. The current system doesnt have the power to make a points difference of around 5 have any noticable effect. Meaning all the players in certain leagues feel and play the same.

So to make the difference between players in the same league (level) more apparant a "fake exaggertion" is needed when playing matches between these teams. For example player stats get a x% boost or decrease in these games depending on the range of their stats. For example if the average player stat range is between 50 and 60, giving them a 10% boost/decrease would mean their range will feel like 45 to 66 giving far more character and a noticable difference between players.

Now the possible problem that can arise is when playing teams from different leagues/levels. This can be balanced by reducing the boost/decrease percentage. For example a div4 team playing a div1 team will have a boost of 0%, the stats as they are give enough difference that the exaggeration isn't needed. A div4 team playing a div2 could have a 5% range and a div4 vs div3 could have a 7,5% range. This way matches played between teams in the same division actually start to get some character.

The main issue with this system in when you play a match that has maximum range and the next game it gets reduced, for example a cup match against a better team. Your players will feel worse in these matches and have slighlty decreased/increased levels. However you could argue that matches played against better opposition should feel this way and it introduces far more variantion and atmosphere in the game.

Fatigue: Needs to be far stricter, for example have the secondary fitness bar (during sprinting) decrease more rapidly so that overal fitness is more effected. Players hardly ever sprint the length of the pitch and when they do it should have a big impact on their overal fitness, at the moment the game is far too forgiving meaning players can sprint around for most of the match with little effect on gameplay.

Crossing: Something needs to be done to the calculation for swerve/bend and the friction the pitch gives. Ive had numouros crosses come in from near the corner of the pitch and have so much swerve that they end up going towards the halfway line on the other side of the the pitch! What makes it even worse is that even when rolling across the pitch this swerve has the same level. Balls don't swerve when rolling over the pitch, atleast not the levels they do now!

Firsttime passing should be difficult, make the effect of pro passing strong enough for it to be obvious!

Passing in 180 degree angles, for example if you are facing your own goal and you firstime it forward, should be very very inaccurate! It really shouldn't even be possible for the majority of players and even the top players should hardly be able to do it. It doesn't happen in real life and it ruins the game. So for these passes the accuracy rating should be very very low. Gamers hould be rewarded for playing football and not ping-pong.

Pressure is ridiculously high and with the lack of any meaningfull fatigue it ruins matches. A team may be able to do it for at most 60min (being a liverpool supporter Ive seen enough of this style to know) but after that the team has to drop back and defend very close to their own area as they have't got the energy left to close down further up the pitch (which means cover more ground).

Goalies: Make sure the acceralation curve for goalies coming out isn't regular but parabolic, or in a graph the line isn't straight but starts off slow and then rapidly increases.

Chipshots: Just make them very hard to do! High inaccuracy rating! Players hardly try them and when they do it's usually with no pressure (winning 3-0).

Tactics: Increase the effect of tactics, it's impossible to get a team to sit back and do an Inter v Barca with the current settings. The only way you can get close is to manually adjust team formation to riculous defensive levels to get anywhere near. It should be possible within the same formation and only with custom tactics. Also teams should generally be more compact when defending, there is now far too much space between the lines which increases the use of ping-pong passing.

I guess that's most of the stat based comments I have.
 
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I am positive that shooting inside the box is programmed differently than shooting from outside the box.
The transition from FIFA10 - FIFA WC has seen a slight improvement in shooting power (not enough in my opinion) and low driven shots are now possible from distance by a short press of the shoot button.
Using this same example inside the box, if I press the shoot button in exactly the same manner I would expect the same kind of driven, low shot with the same power but this isn't the case. The result is either a tame trundeling shot or a side foot placement.
As far as I'm concerened, the only time my player should be side footing the ball is if I'm holding the Finesse Shot button.
 
The Di Canio type of volleys need to be tone down because their amount is ridiculous.Volleys are still weak on some occasions specially the ones where the goal is on the left/right side of the player (imagine the Zidane volley in champions league final against Leverkusen.
 
kouroux said:
The Di Canio type of volleys need to be tone down because their amount is ridiculous.Volleys are still weak on some occasions specially the ones where the goal is on the left/right side of the player (imagine the Zidane volley in champions league final against Leverkusen.
Click to expand...

I think the Di Canio was specifically mentioned as being limited to agile players only. More cumbersome players will have limited shot/pass types compared to those players who have a high agility stat.
 
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