Killzone 2

Re: Killzone 2 PS3

If it's impossible to judge a game by its demo, then what's the purpose of the demo?

cod4 got me bored now and then (mostly because of the scripted nature of everything), but at least the level design (even if strictly linear) showed some nice ideas (a sinking boat, the sniper's mission hiding through the mill to get to the rooftop of a building... you get me) and some unexpected things, even if gameplay was too familiar.

I'm not saying it's a bad game, of course, but it's not amazing at all and shows an impressive lack of ideas.

By the way, I didn't find all the "destructibility" that apparently the game has. I expected more destruction and not the so typical destructible structure with some cans of gasoline attached to it to blow it up. Really.
 
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Re: Killzone 2 PS3

I don't mind if you dislike the demo Drek but you're making a lot of comments like 'i didn't see this or that, therefore it's a let down'. But those features just weren't in the demo. The demo cuts off just before you get to a section where you use your sixaxis controls to turn a circular wheel thingy to open a door. Then you have the sniper that requires you to hold your motions pad still to keep the rifle still. The destruction was either just not in the demo or just not in that section, but it IS in there.

I'm tired of killing a machine gunner to find someone replaces him countless times, but if you accomplish the objective, the spawning ends. Ouch, too simple for my taste!
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The point of that is they're holding the bridge as a defensive point, when you destroy it they fall back. They're using the bridge to get guys across and to your side which is why they don't re appear once it's blown up. There will no doubt be areas of spawning until you're squad pushes forward but i always take that as the enemy falling back. If you change the perspective round so you were defending with a team you would also keep re spawning on that area until they push forward and forced you to spawn further back.

colour palette is really limited
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You were expecting rainbows and sunshine and blue sky and then in the next section a green grassy area and then a quick change to a factory? The planets just been blasted from space by the huge spaceships they've travelled on so everything is a charred mess of rubble and stone and so on. Then you go inside the building and the demo ends. Hardly enough time to show you the different environments. And it's a make believe planet, maybe that's exactly the colour of that area?


COD4 has nice sections like the sniper area but that's not within the first 10 minutes of the demo/game. Granted the ship was the first level but then you could argue that the end of that level was just a scripted event where the ship sinks and that you're tired of scripted sinking ships. A sinking ship is really nothing more than the spacecraft that's about to blown in Halo 1 that you have to escape from or any other game that says 'get from A to B before the timer hits 0'. It's not a brand new impressive idea. It's just a change of scenery.

KZ2 will probably have a sniper section, i know there is a section where you cross a bridge area and the enemy have snipers around so you're running and dodging their shots while you and your partner flank them and take them out as you cross. Then you have the giant mech robot section. I'm guessing there will be other vehicle sections as well as they said they really wanted to expand on that after KZ Liberation.

If it's impossible to judge a game by its demo, then what's the purpose of the demo?
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I'm guessing to give everyone a taste of the game without spilling out all of it's goodness. If it handed us every cool thing right away then people would complain that the full game offered nothing new and is nothing more than the demo.

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Lag/Momentum/Whatever you call it

It's definitely there - tap your right stick left or right and watch that the screen moves a split second later. Just give the stick a jab to the side and watch. If you move it slowly then the lag/whatever isn't as obvious as small movements are picked up right away. It's not enough to make me say 'ouch this is unplayable' but after playing arcadey shooters it's noticable.
 
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Re: Killzone 2 PS3

im not going to get this game if i cant get use to the aiming of it. i wil give it a proper go this weekend and if i still dont enjoy it, i wont be spending any money on it.

the graphics and sounds are fantastic but if i wanna watch something for its graphics, i would watch movies instead. gameplay is a must for me and atm the gameplay is not enjoyable for me :(

i realy want to like this game :(
 
Re: Killzone 2 PS3

drekkard said:
If it's impossible to judge a game by its demo, then what's the purpose of the demo?

cod4 got me bored now and then (mostly because of the scripted nature of everything), but at least the level design (even if strictly linear) showed some nice ideas (a sinking boat, the sniper's mission hiding through the mill to get to the rooftop of a building... you get me) and some unexpected things, even if gameplay was too familiar.

I'm not saying it's a bad game, of course, but it's not amazing at all and shows an impressive lack of ideas.

By the way, I didn't find all the "destructibility" that apparently the game has. I expected more destruction and not the so typical destructible structure with some cans of gasoline attached to it to blow it up. Really.
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but that sinking ship levels and all the others you mentioned wasnt on the demo.:YAWN:

you cannot say leve designs are poor based on a 10min go at the SP campaign
 
Re: Killzone 2 PS3

Sometimes a scripted/linear experience if done the right way can be very engaging.
 
Re: Killzone 2 PS3

Obviously I was judging the demo, not the game. What I meant is that if they had done something new, or had something special to offer, it would be in the demo. I'm just saying that it's a very well done game but offering nothing new in any sense of the word and that really let me down.

I'm not totally against linear / triggered experiences, but I'm against using them as the only one resource to produce gameplay.

Take Doom III for exmaple. When it launched it had the best graphics and some of the best technology ever seen, but gameplay was quite boring to be honest.
 
Re: Killzone 2 PS3

I've only skimmed the review, but the multiplayer sounds amazingly awesome!

32 players (including bots if required), squads and the upgrade/class path which sounds interesting.

Sounds like you choose a class to start with (Sniper/Medic etc) and have a path to follow with upgrade points. Once you reach the end of the upgrade path, you can then combine that class with another.

So you could end up with a Sniper Medic with stealth abilities! Clever idea :)
 
Re: Killzone 2 PS3

drekkard said:
Obviously I was judging the demo, not the game. What I meant is that if they had done something new, or had something special to offer, it would be in the demo. I'm just saying that it's a very well done game but offering nothing new in any sense of the word and that really let me down.

I'm not totally against linear / triggered experiences, but I'm against using them as the only one resource to produce gameplay.

Take Doom III for exmaple. When it launched it had the best graphics and some of the best technology ever seen, but gameplay was quite boring to be honest.
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what did cod4 demo have that was unique and groundbreaking?
 
Re: Killzone 2 PS3

I'm suprised by the glowing feedback on here. Myself and a couple of friends both had the same impressions. I enjoyed the demo but I definately wasn't blown away.

The controls are awkward so I'm hoping in the full version we'll be able to map them a bit better. The cover system is clumsy IMO, I'd prefer not to use it at all. Thankfully it isn't in the multiplayer part which is where I'll be spending most of my time.

I also thought the demo was ridiculously short. I actually shouted out loud when I completed, 'Is that it??!'. I think they'd have been better off not releasing a demo at all. And what triple A game gets a demo these days anyway?

For me, it was so short it didn't suck me in at all. It didn't leave me wanting to play more. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed it. The graphics are phenomenal - the best I've seen for a shooter. The AI seems quite impressive too.

But I still can't help but feeling that its getting such glowing reviews because there's a lack of quality shooters on the PS3. Graphics aside (as the 360 couldn't pull them off), if this game was released on 360, my guess the feedback would nowhere near be as positive.

Yes I know its only a demo and I still can't wait for the full game. Flame away :)
 
Re: Killzone 2 PS3

Very underwhelmed by the demo. Graphics are NOT what some previews had stated. The game has potential, but I much rather prefer the realism/graphics and gameplay of COD games.

I hope the final product blows me away as this demo has pushed this game to a rental so far.
 
Re: Killzone 2 PS3

FlawlessCowboy said:
But I still can't help but feeling that its getting such glowing reviews because there's a lack of quality shooters on the PS3.
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COD4 means anything to you? It's a great FPS and one that KZ2 has to be compared with. If KZ2 is getting such good reviews it's because the game is as good as COD4 (maybe slightly better, maybe an inch worse).

For me COD4 is the best shooter I played on the PS3, both single and multiplayer. Single player was a bit linear but still satisfying. But when you look at a non-lineat FPS like Farcry 2 you have to admit that it wasn't better than COD4. COD4 multiplayer was awesome and I hope KZ2 multiplayer is too.

The cover system does seem awkward at first, but I prolly get used.

Overall I liked the experience and even though the demo was a bit short I was hyped with the game. Let's hope it delivers, my pre-order was done before the demo and I'm keeping it.
 
Re: Killzone 2 PS3

pboreham said:
I've only skimmed the review, but the multiplayer sounds amazingly awesome!

32 players (including bots if required), squads and the upgrade/class path which sounds interesting.

Sounds like you choose a class to start with (Sniper/Medic etc) and have a path to follow with upgrade points. Once you reach the end of the upgrade path, you can then combine that class with another.

So you could end up with a Sniper Medic with stealth abilities! Clever idea :)
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I read a write up from someone in the beta who was saying you could do all of that. He was giving out tips for the full game in the write up, things like 'in the beta players favoured [examples a b and c] so to counter that do this.

Well he was talking about the 'perks' that killzone has. i don't think they're called perks, they have their own name but he kept calling them killzone perks. Anyway, one nice combo he had was a proximity c4 charge perk and a sniper/engineer class.

So he'd set up a turret in a corridor or area behind him and proximity c4 on the door that leads from the turret to him. So when the turret went down he'd get a warning and could cloak, then they'd hit the C4... die, he'd wait a few seconds until they would have respawned and then he'd uncloak and they would never know he was camping there.
 
Re: Killzone 2 PS3

Bojador said:
COD4 means anything to you? It's a great FPS and one that KZ2 has to be compared with. If KZ2 is getting such good reviews it's because the game is as good as COD4 (maybe slightly better, maybe an inch worse).

For me COD4 is the best shooter I played on the PS3, both single and multiplayer. Single player was a bit linear but still satisfying. But when you look at a non-lineat FPS like Farcry 2 you have to admit that it wasn't better than COD4. COD4 multiplayer was awesome and I hope KZ2 multiplayer is too.

The cover system does seem awkward at first, but I prolly get used.

Overall I liked the experience and even though the demo was a bit short I was hyped with the game. Let's hope it delivers, my pre-order was done before the demo and I'm keeping it.
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qft. people who say ps3 has a lack of fps shooters need to recheck and think for a second because most of the 360 shooters are on the ps3 as well.

only halo 3 and gow series are ones that are not on the ps3. :CONFUSE:
 
Re: Killzone 2 PS3

drekkard said:
Obviously I was judging the demo, not the game. What I meant is that if they had done something new, or had something special to offer, it would be in the demo. I'm just saying that it's a very well done game but offering nothing new in any sense of the word and that really let me down.

I'm not totally against linear / triggered experiences, but I'm against using them as the only one resource to produce gameplay.

Take Doom III for exmaple. When it launched it had the best graphics and some of the best technology ever seen, but gameplay was quite boring to be honest.
Click to expand...

It's a first person shooter, what could they possibly do with it that hasn't been done already?
 
Re: Killzone 2 PS3

drekkard said:
Obviously I was judging the demo, not the game. What I meant is that if they had done something new, or had something special to offer, it would be in the demo. I'm just saying that it's a very well done game but offering nothing new in any sense of the word and that really let me down.

I'm not totally against linear / triggered experiences, but I'm against using them as the only one resource to produce gameplay.

Take Doom III for exmaple. When it launched it had the best graphics and some of the best technology ever seen, but gameplay was quite boring to be honest.
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Killzone 2 does have things to offer that weren't in the demo. Sixaxis controls, the MP side, vehicles sections... . What was in the cOD4 demo that was 'new'? The perks and online rank up idea which people love COD4 for weren't part of SP demo level. I think that level was basically a night vision map.

FlawlessCowboy said:
I think they'd have been better off not releasing a demo at all. And what triple A game gets a demo these days anyway?
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I think the point of releasing it was to show it wasn't killzone 1, to get the hype machine going, to get the game out there on show so the fans can then pass it on and show it off.

What AAA game gets a demo these days anyway? It depends what you mean by AAA, but most big games get demos and nearly all the great games of the last year or 2 have had demos.
 
Re: Killzone 2 PS3

I think the demo has really paid off for them because looking around some forums this afternoon (N4G.com etc.) the general consensus is that it kicks ass, people are racing into the forums to start typing about how "it's like Jesus became a programmer and made a PS3 FPS". Most people are raving about it.

I've seen about two comments all day that say "it's just a generic shooter, I don't get it" and they've been set upon like wild animals who haven't eaten in a week.

I'll try the demo again shortly because obviously if I can get used to this momentum system it's a good game.
 
Re: Killzone 2 PS3

Chris Bauer said:
I think the demo has really paid off for them because looking around some forums this afternoon (N4G.com etc.) the general consensus is that it kicks ass, people are racing into the forums to start typing about how "it's like Jesus became a programmer and made a PS3 FPS". Most people are raving about it.

I've seen about two comments all day that say "it's just a generic shooter, I don't get it" and they've been set upon like wild animals who haven't eaten in a week.

I'll try the demo again shortly because obviously if I can get used to this momentum system it's a good game.
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at the end of the day. not everyone will like something regardless of how great it may be. im sure there are one or two that dont like gears of war series and the halo series, doesnt mean its a bad game right?
 
Re: Killzone 2 PS3

I wasn't being sarcastic or anything Jonney, I thought I made it obvious that I genuinely want to get into it when so many people are saying it's an amazing game.
 
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Re: Killzone 2 PS3

At the end of the day if you dont like it, dont buy it. If you do like it, enjoy it. Some people love Gears of War, others hate it. Some love the GTA series, others despise it. Its all down to a matter of personal opinion and Killzone 2 is not exempt from that. :)
 
Re: Killzone 2 PS3

Mainly about the delay when turning. There's also a lot of gripes that Drekkard has already outlined.

I do agree on the cover system being a little awkward. But to be honest I'm used to it now.
 
Re: Killzone 2 PS3

Yeah I agree about the moving delay, but it's not really enough to kill the game for me. And the cover system, you don't HAVE to use it. If you want to you can just crouch behind things like in all past games. I'm used to it though myself and i like it.
 
Re: Killzone 2 PS3

There has been alot of good points raised in this thread so far, I have only had one quick go on it, and it was late last night before it finished DL from the PSN. However, it played ok for me, I think it may suffer from palette fatigue, something that was levelled at the first Gears and R:FOM games. Sure it's not Earth etc, but from the trailer that plays at the end of the demo, there may not be a really big variety in levels. ATM, I'm not sure to cancel my pre-order or not, (and I have had this game ordered since July last year!) I will have a few more goes on the demo, and my other shooters this weekend, and see if I do need it, otherwise I'll be like Dags, give it a couple of weeks and people who dont warm to the MP will be selling it on a few websites.
 
Re: Killzone 2 PS3

i always think of demo's as trailers to a movie. a trailer/demo could be a lame one but the whole movie/game could turn out be an enjoyable experience. of course it works both ways though.

guess we have to ask ourselves whever its worth taking a risk and purchasing the full game if you have some doubts over it, or, as dags and others have said, wait till prices fall or get a second hand copy.

for me, im just having doubts on the way it conrols and aims. everything else is fine, just that bit which is a cruatial part of my judgement for FPS games imo.

if the controls suck, i myself wont enjoy it :(
 
Re: Killzone 2 PS3

Okay, got to admit, I took the night off CoD last night and tried the demo again this morning... I'm getting into it.

I've had to put the Y-axis sensitivity to max and I still don't "like" the momentum system (when I try to play CoD now I automatically turn 30-degrees too far when I try to shoot someone, I was retarded enough before :LOL:), but now that I'm getting to grips with it the game is playable and I can see why the hype exists.

Again, I don't particularly "like" the aim but I do actually appreciate it's more realistic - the judder of the gun and the "swooshing" of the sight/dot is spot on.

The only thing really holding me back now is trying to crouch and aim (L1 + L2) at the same time - I can see now why the default controls have R3 as aim, even though I couldn't play with the default controls. Those who can won't have to press two shoulder buttons at once, which is totally awkward.

I will be getting it now I think, it's worth the single player campaign at least; just wondering whether to cancel the pre-order and pick it up after release for a few quid less (because I'm still not blown away, although knowing me I will be by next week).

Does anyone know if the offline campaign has a split-screen mode (alá Gears of War)?
 
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