Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

romagnoli said:
Good stuff Rod.

I'd have made the petition the same as the vote we had here but only with the played/watched YES options. You've already got one vote for 'DO NOT VOTE FOR THIS OPTION'! Not a problem though.

Love the post by the guy who said he thought pro passing was a bad idea but watched the vids and thinks it looks fine. That's cos theres no difference!!
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The problem with that is that you can't make the votes public, I'd have done it like that otherwise! Far too many people would have said they'd played the game when they hadn't I felt. Damned new forum ;)

I can still change it by the looks of it..
 
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Just a couple of pro-passing questions....(sorry if theyre dumb)...
firstly, does it have an effect on through balls? Im a manual player, and when playing against assisted players I find that the inch perfect through balls kill me more than the passing.

Secondly, how does it know which player ur trying to pass to? Say ive got the ball with my left back and am looking to play a pass to the right back (so all the way across the back four), how does it know I want to pass all the way across and not just in the middle to one of the CB's?
 
Chelsea4ever said:
Just a couple of pro-passing questions....(sorry if theyre dumb)...
firstly, does it have an effect on through balls? Im a manual player, and when playing against assisted players I find that the inch perfect through balls kill me more than the passing.
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I believe the contextual error should be effected, but not the user-weighted element.

Secondly, how does it know which player ur trying to pass to? Say ive got the ball with my left back and am looking to play a pass to the right back (so all the way across the back four), how does it know I want to pass all the way across and not just in the middle to one of the CB's?
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I assume it 'knows' in the same way that it 'knows' with assisted passing. In your example, if you hold the button all the way it will choose the longest pass.

That should be unaffected by pro passing really.
 
Rodelero said:
I believe the contextual error should be effected, but not the user-weighted element.



I assume it 'knows' in the same way that it 'knows' with assisted passing. In your example, if you hold the button all the way it will choose the longest pass.
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thats the same way it works in PES too.
 
I'm actually really surprised at how (generally) positive support has been. It's about staying power now - and seeing how the demo turns out. Hopefully we can change things.

I hope EA look on this as an opportunity to prove themselves.
 
i highly doubt EA will listen to us. there is a better chance of listening to a 10 year old then us!!

do u guys think EA need a new engine built from the ground up? has teh current fifa engine reached its prime?
 
Signed it, what a total shocker that video was, if they don't respond to that I really don't know what else needs to be done to convince them.

Great post and I hope it will get the ball rolling (pun intended).
 
Rodelero said:
I didn't notice switching being too much of an issue - it's changed a fair bit. But to be honest, I use the right analog stick to switch most of the time. The switching has changed quite a lot.
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I'm talking about player switching when on offense - I use the right stick on defense too. In particular, player switching is terrible on crosses for me, not only do I have problems with it picking the right player, but also I find a delay effect when I hit the switch button. Are you saying you use the right stick for selecting players when on offense too? Sounds insanely difficult to do that, especially on longer ground and lob passes.

Anybody finding scoring off of crosses difficult on manual in the WC game? Heading is greatly improved from 10 but for some reason I can't seem to connect well with manual crosses and headers. I think I read somewhere that this was an issue, and some people recommended not using manual for crosses. Anybody with experiences like this?

Nerf is saying what I'm saying, and I thought I'd heard something about switching being re-written, so excited for that:

nerf said:
I despise the player switching logic in 10/WC. I had a classic this morning when my central midfielder laid a pass wide into the path of my left fullback, and my left winger (further away and ahead of the ball) was whistled for offside.

We've been told that they've re-written player switching for 11, so I'm crossing my fingers.
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jonneymendoza said:
do u guys think EA need a new engine built from the ground up? has teh current fifa engine reached its prime?
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I'd appreciate it if someone could explain what is usually meant by "engine" - are we talking graphics, gameplay, everything, what?

My guess would be a big no. I hate the player models in FIFA compared to PES, but you can't deny the new player face tech looks fantastic. If we're talking gameplay, I'd also answer with a no - the physics in FIFA, for example, is awesome for the most part.

The only reason I could see a new engine would be needed is if the current one can't handle the addition of first-touch and improved AI, especially defensive marking and offensive player movement.

But I'd think it would take someone with hands-on experience with FIFA and a serious background in game development to really answer your question. I just feel that FIFA is not THAT far away from what we all want.
 
mfmaxpower said:
Sorry, was trying to be sarcastic. I agree with everything you've said, though I haven't played the demo, and I'm genuinely looking forward to the gameplay. For me, personally, CM is the only thing that has somewhat put a dark cloud over the game for me.

As for saying we shouldn't look for a revolution, I agree FIFA didn't "need" a massive leap forward like PES, in terms of it being a successful game, but in terms of being a more realistic representation of football, I do think FIFA needs some major improvements, like first touch and improved defensive/offensive AI. But discussing needs vs wants vs expectations is a real murky business, you know?

But there's a reason this forum is less enthusiastic for FIFA than the offical forums, aside from one being run by EA and the other created by PES lovers - FIFA is simply a game targeted at a younger more casual audience. Did you notice how many threads were created yesterday when word broke that the game will have Torres' current hairstyle? I mean, how many posts here, on either side of the forum, are about Chicharito's rating?

*Edit: Actually, I do take issue with you saying we are ALL PES fans at first - I may have been a fan of PES before FIFA 08, but first and most importantly I am a fan of realistic football. I want both FIFA and PES to be great. Meanwhile, what counts as a "genuine improvement?" I'm sure someone out there is glad to see pumpkins and penguins are in PES, but IMO it's a shocking waste of resources, which is exactly how I view the new interactive celebrations in FIFA. But I guess we've all agreed I'm in the minority, at least within the FIFA community.
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Good post man. I think we just misunderstood eachother at first.

By the way, I support the petition. ProPassing seemed decent @ Gamerbase but it was still all too easy to string accurate passes with little regard to positioning imo. PP slowed the pace down but doesn't really account for passing ERROR as much as i'd like (lateral error). EA need to be a lot more strict. The reward for talented passers will be far greater if EA stop wimping out on making major changes. I'm still disturbed that they even thought to have the Passing Assitance display on/off switch. Isn't this their big feature this year? Do it justice EA!
 
Rodelero said:
I'm finally finished. It's taken quite a while but I've finally (with some good advice from Romagnoli) managed to get this together: http://forum.ea.com/uk/posts/list/5124.page

A petition to get EA to increase the effects of Pro Passing. I've included a near 3 minute video showing a wealth of examples of where Pro Passing is simply (and quite considerably inadequate), and a lengthy description of the problem. I'm preaching to the choir here - but if you do want to support this petition the best thing you can do is to try to keep discussion going in there. Yes, that means going on the new official forums, but, hopefully, just maybe we can achieve something.
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Awesome job. That video is simply eye-opening. Honestly, I'm not sure which bothers me most - that it's so easy to make a perfectly accurate pass after doing a 180 spin, or you can so severely under-weight a pass and it still arrive at pace.

I guess I could understand not wanting to be too strict with the weighting system but the physics-defying passing is just ridiculous. I was hesitant to formulate an opinion until I played the demo, but how could you watch that video and not see how ineffective PP is. I'm really hoping that EA respond to the thread.

Anyways, this is what I posted in the petition thread, fyi:

Wow if that is not a damning video of conclusive evidence that Pro Passing - one of FIFA 11's premiere new features - is not what it is advertised then I don't know what would be.

Honestly, until seeing that video I did not realize how ineffective Pro Passing is - how in the world should you be able to make a perfect pass after doing a lightning-quick 180 degree turn is beyond me, not to mention also under-weighting the pass at the same time. That's straight-up embarrassing.

Pro Passing - it's NOT in the game.
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Yes I actually chuckled to myself reading this. It's a difficult one - I don't want to hurt EA and I know that this video is fairly inflammatory and liable to anger people if not warn them away from buying the game. I'm in a strange situation where I want my thread to be succesful but I also want to be wrong.

That video does pretty much sum it up for me. To be fair - there ARE things which Pro Passing does affect, it isn't a completely unnoticeable feature but in terms of the user-weighting element and the pure difficulty-of-pass bit, and directional error it is pretty invisible.

I wanted to do something to help the game, hopefully that's what it will achieve. Obviously, it's always going to cause quite a lot of anger - I just hope people give EA time to respond rather than gathering pitchforks.
 
Rodelero any chance of making a video to show how certain animations are far too fast, superhuman and not contextual?

Don't like it how people seem to see FIFA's animations as perfectly realsitic when in fact they need a lot of work!

The tech is there to do it the tech is good but the output isn't!
 
klashman69 said:
Rodelero any chance of making a video to show how certain animations are far too fast, superhuman and not contextual?

Don't like it how people seem to see FIFA's animations as perfectly realsitic when in fact they need a lot of work!

The tech is there to do it the tech is good but the output isn't!
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To be honest, whilst there are all sorts of things to criticise about FIFA 11 no doubt, I kinda think we should take it one step at a time. Let's see how Pro Passing goes and move from there (and hopefully some others will take the initiative).

With animations too, I kind of suspect it's probably not that easy to fix. Some things might be tweakable - whether this would be I'm not so sure.
 
I signed the petition - great post by the way, I find it hard to see how anyone could disagree with it.

Would be interesting to see what EA have to say about it.
 
Rod you are a legend. That video and your petition is just what is needed. Hopefully it will land a punch. EA better watch themselves cos PES is gaining big support and from some very loyal FIFA supporters. Not mentioning any names but let's just say a certain someone now working for Sony who used to be a forum regular, is loving the PES this year.
 
The silence from EA in that thread is deafening. Pretty sure they're strongly considering a huge tweak patch at launch...
 
WILDSTER180774 said:
Rod you are a legend. That video and your petition is just what is needed. Hopefully it will land a punch. EA better watch themselves cos PES is gaining big support and from some very loyal FIFA supporters. Not mentioning any names but let's just say a certain someone now working for Sony who used to be a forum regular, is loving the PES this year.
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Mate, you know how big a FIFA fan i've been these last few years and even I support PES2011's direction. Just look at the descriptions on www.pes2011.com . Konami just "get it". They don't have the money and clout to compete toe to toe with EA and it's licenced behemoth, but it's great for footy fans that Konami are well involved. PES2011 has a VERY impressive philosophy (check that site).

That said, I'll be buying FIFA11 for sure!
 
klashman69 said:
Rodelero any chance of making a video to show how certain animations are far too fast, superhuman and not contextual?

Don't like it how people seem to see FIFA's animations as perfectly realsitic when in fact they need a lot of work!

The tech is there to do it the tech is good but the output isn't!
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What animations bother you?

I can't think of an animation I see while playing FIFA that makes me think it looks wrong - it's the output I have problems with. For example, although the 180 spins are a bit quick, the real issue I have with them is that you can then make a perfect pass. If Pro Passing does its job, that pass would not work and we probably wouldn't be talking about that animation, no?

Rodelero said:
To be honest, whilst there are all sorts of things to criticise about FIFA 11 no doubt, I kinda think we should take it one step at a time. Let's see how Pro Passing goes and move from there (and hopefully some others will take the initiative).

With animations too, I kind of suspect it's probably not that easy to fix. Some things might be tweakable - whether this would be I'm not so sure.
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I agree - one petition at a time!
 
Rodelero said:
To be honest, whilst there are all sorts of things to criticise about FIFA 11 no doubt, I kinda think we should take it one step at a time. Let's see how Pro Passing goes and move from there (and hopefully some others will take the initiative).

With animations too, I kind of suspect it's probably not that easy to fix. Some things might be tweakable - whether this would be I'm not so sure.
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Ok that's fine man :). Yeah animations can't be fixed i know in FIFA 11. Just think EA need to get the point that It's substance over style!
 
gameklip said:
Mate, you know how big a FIFA fan i've been these last few years and even I support PES2011's direction. Just look at the descriptions on www.pes2011.com . Konami just "get it". They don't have the money and clout to compete toe to toe with EA and it's licenced behemoth, but it's great for footy fans that Konami are well involved. PES2011 has a VERY impressive philosophy (check that site).

That said, I'll be buying FIFA11 for sure!
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When it comes to football fundamentals, Konami certainly "gets it" to a level EA hasn't achieved yet, though I'm not sure if I was Konami I'd go with the "Engineered for Freedom" catchphrase when you consider how "free" FIFA is - PES 2011 will be a step forward for sure but it's still going to lag behind FIFA's freedom in control and movement.
 
mfmaxpower said:
What animations bother you?

I can't think of an animation I see while playing FIFA that makes me think it looks wrong - it's the output I have problems with. For example, although the 180 spins are a bit quick, the real issue I have with them is that you can then make a perfect pass. If Pro Passing does its job, that pass would not work and we probably wouldn't be talking about that animation, no?
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It's the mechanics of the animations and ball physics. I mean pick out ANY FIFA 10 or even 11 video and i will point out so many instances of balls sticking to players like magnets and player just skipping actually trying to control the ball.

Instead the ball just magically killed and is ready for the player to move in his desired direction without factoring the velocity of the pass, body position and ball control skill in regards to receiving the ball.

I'm going to show you a manual video so nobody makes excuses that it's on assisted and all passes are perfect etc.. Now, don't worry about how these layers are playing, that's not the issue, just focus on the players FIRST TOUCHES when receiving passes in this video. Every other video featuring this game will demonstrate this!

YouTube - FIFA 10 (manual controls) - (1/2) My 1000th online ranked match

He's what I'm talking about!

0:28

0:40 after crouch chests the ball look how the ball seems to magnetically fall under control for crouch in his next touch without him trying to properly cushion the ball to control. it just magnetically sticks to his feet and doesn't correspond to the previous ball movement.

1:10 there is no animation displaying defoe actually killing the ball it just again magnetically appears to his feet and ready for him to run into his desired direction. remember this was a lofted pass he's controlling. He would've had to take a touch and adjust his body to ready himself for the ball. Instead! It's just zipped into his direction.

2:10 After lennon controls it perfectly with his left, changes direction 90 degrees then goes into that gliding animation. Looks so wrong!

2:16 Again, no animation of him adjusting his body to control the ball it just falls into place to the direction he wanted to run in!

2:51 ball just seems to adjust itself in accordance to meet Comotto rather than Comotto taking a touch to try and get his body and foot placement in sync with the balls velocity.

2:57 another example, this time it's the goalkeeper Gomes. You can it's like see this game skips the controlling the ball animation for the player to instantly obtain perfect ball control and move off quickly!

4:14 This is the worst one and one i want to focus on the most because i don't think some manual players get the point! You will notice Courluka's pass to Lennon isn't the best (which is fine, he's playing full manual) and ends up going behind Lennon. What happens here is why i hate this game. Lennon who's sprinting forward to move into a better position upfield, stops instantaneously, without any animations even attempting to factor his momentum, weight or inertia. He basically at the same time, stops, spins and controls the bad pass perfectly , in fact, it's ready for him to move off forward at a angle 180 degrees away from where he received the bad pass!

4:21 Receives the ball here is big Tom Huddlestone! Who in real life move slower than dial up internet and is a very stiff player. Turns instantly 45 degrees, controls the ball perfectly and seems to start dribbling on rails this time. Your getting the point now!

1. You won't noticed this craziness unless somebody points it out to you and explains why it's not within the laws of physics because the transitions are so smooth! (remember this stuff was all fine in FIFA 08 :)
2. You see why it's so easy to make use of space, why it feels so free and you feel like you do anything you want and move in any way you want with any player no matter their attributes.
3. Even if Rodolero rightfully gets his way and we finally get pro passing to make a difference, this craziness with still continue!

5:03 Zanetti Massively over-hit's the pass to Gilardino but AGAIN he controls it perfect in the direction he's running into. Again not factoring the ball velocity, it just magnetically sticks to him :)

In general most first touches in the game are fine but still adhere to this magnet like principle! Is it the 360 dribbling? possibly? Since FIFA 08 was very much on rails but had proper player inertia. The was LITERALLY a separate object, players actually positioned their bodies in order to control the ball rather than the other way round. Players had weight and couldn't turn so quickly.

So hopefully i've show you how much EA have gone backwards since 08 in terms of ball control functions! Hopefully Ea will see this video and see just how much better they can makes this game by sorting this out and implementing the functions from FIFA 08 back in! I not asking for EA to make this perfect or make a super game. I'm just making a point why on earth have you dubbed this down so much since 08?
 
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unsure if this video has been posted yet:-

YouTube - Fifa 11 - Gameplay Fifa Day [www.fifaitalia.net] [www.spaziogames.it]

the bit at the end, you see this

2hgvl39.jpg


i know its not a big deal but it just looks silly imo.
 
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