DerleiPT
Pes Master
- 29 October 2009
- Chelsea FC
relax mate , 5/10 goals hit in top corner in pes11 demo videos. Goals looks very similar and i dont thing that there is much more variation of goals than Fifa.
Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3
- Thread starter jonneymendoza
- Start date
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
5/10 goals that people have decided were worth getting their cameraphone out for? I've scored own goals, basic headers, tapped in rebounds etc, but I didn't think to get the camera out for those. Is that surprising?
Not saying there won't be too many of one type of goal compared to others but you've got to think these things through.
R
Rob92
Guest
That's a better post, actually explained yourself
.I havn't watched a massive amount of PES videos, but personally didn't see the repetitive goals you mention, maybe after playing the demo I will see it...
FIFA's freedom gives it the potential to make anything possible, it's just the shooting physics, AI and the way defending works that forces you into playing a certain way - in a few years FIFA will probably be a great game.
That's what makes it so frustrating, the untapped potential in the FIFA engine is so obvious to see...
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
Just read Marcel's 2nd part of his CM blog.
I can't wait to play that mode. For me it is pitched at the correct level I think. Not too deep and I like the new look and feel.
Will be a good distraction whilst waiting for my club mates to come on
Not too deep? Wtf? I think you're the first person I've ever heard say they'd like a shallow game mode - because that's what CM is, shallow. Please explain to me what would be too deep? Is ML too deep to you?
Not that I wouldn't want something to sink my teeth into, but what do you expect? All info has been released, unless they've got some secrets, but there's no indication that's the case. The demo is next week. Official gameplay vids have been released. What else is there really?
If it wasn't for playstation+ in Europe, we'd have nothing for PES either. Honestly, I'm sick of news and vids, I want the damn demos!!
Chelsea4ever
League 1
- 12 March 2003
Yeh mate, 100% there is swerve on manual passes, normally when filling the power bar roughly 3/4 or more. Try a game and knock it about you back four doing hard passes, or hit some passes up the line and you should see it. It is very noticeable aswell, for example, when I made a pass down the line, my player was about 2 ft away from the touchline, the ball set out towards the line, taking it around a player, and then curved back in.
If I wanted a full on manager mode then I would get a football management game.
I didn't say I wanted a shallow game mode either, CM looks like a fun mode that I am looking forward to, that's all.
I don't care about master league and never have done really.
who says CM is shallow, do you have more info? I see this mode as something that will keep me entertained for a while.
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
I don't mind manager mode, i like it. or Career mode now it's called.
It is in terms of depth league mode with transfers and other unnecessary stuff but I'm looking forward to diving into random leagues and playing. Just like how there are so many teams to play with that's all.
It's never been as good as PES's master league and i don't expect it to be anywhere near as good as FM or want it to be! Still decent if it works!
It is in terms of depth league mode with transfers and other unnecessary stuff but I'm looking forward to diving into random leagues and playing. Just like how there are so many teams to play with that's all.
It's never been as good as PES's master league and i don't expect it to be anywhere near as good as FM or want it to be! Still decent if it works!
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
CM is extremely shallow, especially when you consider the features they have removed this year and last. Honestly, I don't see how you can't be the least interested in ML, the better of the two manager modes and traditionally considered one of the strengths of PES, and a reason some have stayed with PES through the last few years? Even Rutter and the devs refer back to their early experiences with ML as a reference point for what they used to say they wanted FIFA's MM to emulate.
Traditionally, manager modes, whether in FIFA or PES, have been about creating a team and molding it into your own vision... and yet, aside from transfers, EA have now removed every hands-on feature meant to help you develop your team. Last year they removed manual player growth, so now you have no say in how your players develop. This year they removed the scout, which although poorly done, was the only semblance of a youth system available. They removed all the coaches, which admittedly were crap. In addition, though also poorly done and not a feature involved in molding your team, they removed the form feature.
I'm excited they've revamped what they did, from transfers to the calendar system to the layout to loans, but that does not change the fact that they've removed many - if not all - the features involved in developing/molding your team. Worse, this has come after years of promises that we'd soon have a deeper MM that would rival PES's ML. ML, meanwhile, has all these features in some form.
So yes, I consider CM to be a very shallow mode. With their decision to combine BAP with MM, maybe EA have decided to disregard the fans of MM and go in an entirely different direction. But from the perspective of management modes - no matter how necessary it was for EA to scrap the old code and start new this year - in its current form CM is very, very shallow.
And please guys, don't make these bullshit comparisons between PES/FIFA's manager modes and FM/manager games - it's apples and oranges. What, we gonna now compare FIFA and FM game engines? MLO and FML in-match experiences? Please.
Murkurial
League 1
- 21 August 2008
Yeah, I didn't get that one. I think someone here at Evo-Web is pulling a Glen Cooley.
That's not the point. For me, I feed my hunger for 'management' on Football Manager, and if I wanted an online version, I'd do it with FML. They are apples and oranges in the sense that on one, you play, and on the other you watch, but the management sides are pretty comparable in terms of how it works - and FM is in both cases a much better management simulator.
CM and ML are a combination of a management sim with a football-action sim. The management side of them, is ENTIRELY comparable with Football Manager. That isn't to say it's PES/FIFA's fault that FM's is better - but it changes nothing about whether it's a useful point. If you go on FIFA and allow the CPU to play your games, then it is basically a shit form of Football Manager.
I can totally understand why you want a career type mode, I can totally understand why you want ML/MLO/CM, but for me, it's not a factor I care about - and you should accept that as I accept that it is a factor for you. FIFA's CM being as shallow as it is considering how little it's moved forwards over the last few years is indefensible, but for me, when it comes to buying a game, it is also irrelevant - just as 11v11 is irrelevant for you.
I'm not saying FM is a better game than ML, I'm saying that the management part of it is, and that personally I don't care for a combination if the management simulation is so inferior. If the management side of FM could be applied to a FIFA/PES gameplay, I'd take that in a heartbeat - but whilst the management sim does the management best, I'll skip caring for the CM/ML.
and now for a useless analogy.
I like beer, and I like lemonade. If you want to drink Shandy made with poor beer, you can, but I'll take my good beer and my good lemonade separately!
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stilts1844
League 1
- 2 January 2003
Couldn't agree with you more here man. I am really impressed with the demo but I also still think that Fifa 11 is going to be a fine game, and I'm going to miss things like semi-auto shooting, 360 jostling, the ability to move for position while the ball is in the air, right stick to select who you are on defense while playing PES, and while playing Fifa I am going to miss more realistic first touch, individuality etc. It's going to be a close one this year, and I suggest anyone who has given up on PES the last few years (like I did) try the PES demo. The good news is if Fifa is not a big improvement this year, the success of PES is going to give it a real kick in the pants for next year.
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
Honestly, I don't get why you're bothering with this since you admit you aren't interested in the game mode.
It's fair to compare features from CM/ML and FM and other management games, but it does no good comparing the modes themselves with FM - they seek to accomplish completely different things. CM/ML are just one aspect of games that focus on gameplay, while FM is concerned with club management.
To use your analogy, both lemonade and beer are drinks but their primary purposes are different - lemonade quenches thirst and beer helps you forget about your ugly wife. Beer will never quench your thirst as well as lemonade and lemonade (by itself) will never get you hammered, thus it makes no sense comparing them even though they both are drinks.
You're argument is like someone who doesn't drink alcohol arguing lemonade is a better drink than beer; me, I'm an alcoholic who's pissed the local pub serves watered-down swill. Dammit, now I need something to drink...
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
Actually just finished reading your big post of your impressions of the PES demo over on the other side of the forums. Funny isn't it how so many of us switched to FIFA with 08 and now are giddy over PES maybe returning to form? I don't expect PES to be better than FIFA overall this year, in terms of gameplay at least, but that's okay, especially since ML adds loads of additional value to PES for me personally.
It's great to have read impressions like yours. Some people I'm wary to trust but you seem to have a similar background as myself, and you touched on everything I imagine will be important for me. I really think you're right too - it's very likely FIFA will need to step-up its game next year if I'm to continue to be interested in the franchise.
An interesting question may be what will be easier, FIFA matching PES in terms of football fundamentals, or PES matching FIFA in terms of animations and freedom of play.
R
Rob92
Guest
I agree with Shooto.
I don't mind CM being "shallow" - as long as the actual matches are challenging and fun to play, something that's not been the case in FIFA 08-10.
I see where people are coming from though when they are disappointed with it.
I don't mind CM being "shallow" - as long as the actual matches are challenging and fun to play, something that's not been the case in FIFA 08-10.
I see where people are coming from though when they are disappointed with it.
Because I was attacked for making 'bullshit' comparisons between a management simulator and the management simulator element of two game modes which are combinations of management simulator and football action simulation?
I'd be interested in the game mode(s) if they were close to the depth of FM, as they aren't, they don't matter to me - my opinion. I'm comparing them because the management elements are completely comparable - and because when I make the mental decision to buy FM I know it's because CM/ML do NOT have the same level of depth as it - becuase I personally make that reasonable comparison when buying the game.
I really don't see why this upsets you - CM is poor, definitely, and ML (other than lacking licenses) is a far, far better management game - but that doesn't mean it matters to a lot of people whatsoever when it comes to buying a football game.
I'm kind of done with this argument - for me it doesn't matter, that's all I'm stating - and it doesn't matter because FM gives me what I need in that area. That's all shooto and I was saying - it really doesn't need the diatribe.
On another note, more important note, over the next couple of days (today or tomorrow) I will be posting a petition I've been compiling over the last couple of weeks. The thread is basically one asking for EA to improve Pro Passing by increasing its effects. I'm going pretty hardline on it and have managed to get a fairly large list of supporters - members of the official forums and this one, gamechangers, and some people from the bigger community sites. I was specifically getting names of people who had already played the game - obviously in 5 days time the number of names will explode. I want to get the ball rolling before the demo releases as the forums always turn to a calamity by then.
I'm building a mashed together video highlighting the issues as I see them, and I've written quite a long bit on the problem as I see it - as well as some choice quotes from various members. Hopefully I can get some momentum behind it but you never know with this community whether they'll be too retentive to actually believe that there is a problem or not. What I want to achieve is to get started with EA changing the game with the live patching. I think we know by now that there are a fair few things we don't like with the game, and the only real remedy available will be tweaking - I think with some things we could actaully get a long way to a good fix - so hopefully this works.
I'll link it here when I do put it up - if people do want to assist in this goal, keep discussion alive mainly.
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How do people on here feel about the way teams are rated in FIFA? I for one think it's a useless system and posted a topic on the official forums but within ten posts it turned into an immature mess with people constantly repeating each other and talking about how their club/favorite player is underrated.
http://forum.ea.com/uk/posts/list/4876.page
De people on here care at all?
http://forum.ea.com/uk/posts/list/4876.page
De people on here care at all?
R
Rob92
Guest
Had enough?... You only registered a few days ago so you are in no place to judge...
Unless this is a second account, in which case you should be banned...
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
For Career mode or manager mode, all they need to do is make matches feel like they are relevant to the league or cup your playing in rather than them being an endless series of friendles!
gameklip
footy klip maestro
- 25 August 2006
- Tottenham Hotspur
Haha we are a bunch of negative nancy's on here though. Probably because most here are ex-PES and joined this forum years ago for PES3/4/5/6 on PS2.
Anyways, there's a new FSB podcast up and I've linked to a new IGN article here:
http://kitanamedia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3266&start=700#p165271
Anyways, there's a new FSB podcast up and I've linked to a new IGN article here:
http://kitanamedia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3266&start=700#p165271
airjoca
International
I think we've simply gotten older.
We're more cynical, but we also have a more profound understading of the game of football than when we were kids, which means that we notice every little wrong nuance with EAs and Konamis attempt to reproduce the beautiful game.
We're no longer satisfied with a fun semi-simulation of football, we want it as real as it gets. Wonder how close EA and/or Konami will ever get...
We're more cynical, but we also have a more profound understading of the game of football than when we were kids, which means that we notice every little wrong nuance with EAs and Konamis attempt to reproduce the beautiful game.
We're no longer satisfied with a fun semi-simulation of football, we want it as real as it gets. Wonder how close EA and/or Konami will ever get...
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
I guess what bothers me, as someone who wants a deeper CM similar to ML, is I don't see the point people arguing it's okay if CM is shallow - it's not as if you lose if CM is a more involved experience. It's just like when people were driving me nuts when they said they were glad manual player growth was removed, even though it was a totally optional feature. Now, if CM or ML, or even FM, is made too complicated to be enjoyable, that's a different issue.
If people want to argue they'd actually prefer a shallow CM, that they don't want a game mode in which they have the options to manage youth development, training, and other club management factors, then I'd argue either features should be made optional or that CM is not the game mode for them.
Give me a break, you were not attacked, I simply called-out a comparison you made as being a big pile of poo imo. Again, like I said above, I just don't agree with arguing less is okay, especially when you're uninterested in playing the game mode to begin with. If you're expecting CM/ML to ever rival FM you'll be waiting a very, very long time. It's not gonna happen, it's not meant to happen, and it's unfair to judge CM/ML on the same level as FM. Just because CM won't ever be as deep a management experience as FM doesn't make it okay for it to be a shallow experience.
Hmm, that the most popular offline game mode - the most popular game mode until recently - does not matter to many people? Right....
Now that I can agree. God I wish I could be a mod over there for a day - I'd have a blast bringing down the ban hammer. Could you imagine anything more fun than if EA came to you right now and said, "for the next hour you have the power to ban anyone you'd like in the FIFA forums?"
And of course I'll sign the petition, unless of course my experience with the demo is far different from what I expect it'll be. I think it's a totally futile effort, but it doesn't hurt to try.
I think the nail in the coffin was Rutter's recent twitter comment that if you want more realism, you should play manual. I'd imagine if told that's no answer for online play, when most people choose assisted settings, EA would point to the new manual leaderboards as their answer. That's not good enough but do you see the conversation ending any other way?
liger05
Championship
If the opposition in Career mode feels different then that will be enough for me. Thats the main thing I want. I want to play Bolton and not feel like I'm playing Arsenal.
ML has many advantages but I still think its disgraceful that Konami restrict you to one clun and one club only. I dont understand why they do this.
ML has many advantages but I still think its disgraceful that Konami restrict you to one clun and one club only. I dont understand why they do this.
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mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
What are you talking about? I think PES 2011 is going to be awesome!
(Honestly, if it weren't for CM - if CM was replaced with MM from 08 - I'd be pretty pumped for the game.)
Anyone feel like typing-up a summary?
It's also less fun to talk about what's great than what sucks!
I agree though, it's pretty easy to tell who's of the older gen - as we get older our preferences mature as well. It's like, I may have grew up on Nintendo and loved Zelda and Super Mario Bros, but now I'm all about 360/PS3 and I like Dragon Age and Gears of War.
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mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
Then you could just play a custom league tournament if that's all you care about.
Yeah, this is retarded. Can't believe they haven't changed this by now. On the other hand, I rarely make it beyond 4-6 season in FIFA because I hate all the fake players that come into the game. Also, I like to look at current squads and think how I'd change them, so I like to start over fresh so the squads are current. (And I also NEVER was able to transfer clubs last year without the debt bug, granted a gave up on the mode after only a few careers.)