Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

jonneymendoza said:
im a software developer and the reason why i think fifa may need a new engine is because their are only soo much u can add to a product on its current engine. some things need a new engine or new framework in order to add new features.

maybe just maybe the defensive AI issues we all get fustrated at cant be fixed in this current gen engine without breaking something else in the code?

Just look at PES, that neede a brand new engine we are playing now in order to add those new animations. freedom of movement, the randomness and the new passing system.

All could not have been implemented in the previous PES engine. What you guys think? EA need a new engine? EA ignoring sim fans and slowly making fifa a arcade game for casual players?
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Except PES isn't using a brand new engine. Seabass said they were able to just scrap certain parts of the old engine. I have no experience with software development, so I'm pretty clueless on this stuff, but when Konami had all those Western reporters go to the Japan offices a while back, I remember that was one of the points they made.

Northzzz said:
Yeh probably......up until the point where somebody forces me to play it i guess but i'll reserve my criticism for there and then. Coming over to forums to solely criticise is a lame thing to do i guess.

I'm really not trying to annoy any Fifa fans by being a WUM for the sake of it because I didn't like Fifa 10. I was talking yesterday about the way i didn't really like some PES GK animations that I had seen too.

Fifa 11 looks like it has a lot of redeeming qualities too so it's not all bad. Whether or not they outweigh the bad is a matter for the demo to solve.

EDIT

I didn't want to post another critical message on the Fifa board so i put another point i had based on the videos into into my signature instead.
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I'm feeling similar to you. After a while, you get tired of complaining, of feeling like always being negative. In the past it wasn't so hard because I felt I had no other option to FIFA, but if PES is a contender again, then it'll be harder finding the motivation to be involved.

I get what you guys are saying, that it's now or never, that this is the year to make a difference etc., I just wonder if it's come one year too late for many? It may not be a huge number of gamers who switch to PES this year, but it may be the gamers we need the most, the ones most interested in hardcore, sim, realistic gameplay.

I agree Rod, it'll be interesting to see how EA respond to your thread, if/when they do. Hopefully we'll have some type of response sooner rather than later.
 
Well, Phil (Community manager) has passed it on, so hopefully we'll get a response soon, if not hopefully it continues to grow at a decent rate - though obviously it's slowing now as most of the forum has probably seen it. Once the demo comes out, we'll see if some people who'd signed renege, or if some people who didn't sign on, which will be interesting - because it's a walkover at the moment.
 
Yup same as in the WC. The problem I have with WC pens is I can hit the target every time in training mode with the blue circle activated. Without the target activated it a little tougher but still very possible. But once in a real game every shot I aim left or right will go wide.
 
Radiation said:
Yup same as in the WC. The problem I have with WC pens is I can hit the target every time in training mode with the blue circle activated. Without the target activated it a little tougher but still very possible. But once in a real game every shot I aim left or right will go wide.
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As long as you time the composure bar right (i.e in the green area) and then let go of the direction you've chosen BEFORE he hits the ball then it'll go on target.
 
mjp said:
As long as you time the composure bar right (i.e in the green area) and then let go of the direction you've chosen BEFORE he hits the ball then it'll go on target.
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Really? Is it that simple?

I was shite at them on the WC game. Never once hit the corner. They were all lame just off centre, at perfect height for the keeper, or miles wide
 
vondave said:
Really? Is it that simple?

I was shite at them on the WC game. Never once hit the corner. They were all lame just off centre, at perfect height for the keeper, or miles wide
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works for me mate.

obviously it can still be saved but 100% on target and near to where I'm trying to put them.
 
Scorpio said:
Pretty cool new penalty system. Was this brought over from the WC game?

YouTube - FIFA 11: Basic Penalties Tutorial
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Noticed Crowds look fantastic and really organic :))

anyway, this system would be great if they just got rid of that stupid compsure bar. The problem with the bar is the 'auto miss' crap when you stop it in the red section!

No matter if you tap the B button and not move the left tick the ball will always go 100 miles over the bar! :RANT: ridiculous. you should still have a chance of scoring even if you scuff the shot or miss hit it!
 
Nick Cave said:
I have that same worry North, though I didn't notice the dumbing down of the keepers to be honest in playing the game, they also moved and positioned better than in 10...
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I haven't played though so you will have a better opinion on the situation.

The difference that seemed striking to me (solely from the videos) is that in Fifa 10 you needed to hit a shot that the goalkeeper had no way to get to in order to score quite often where as in Fifa 11 the keeper can still be beaten even if the ball in relatively in his reach. Not a criticism because that's realistic.

Maybe that's just what it looks like if you say they position themselves better. It seems quite plausible that in order to stop the complaints about overpowered keepers reacting too quickly EA could just be make the GK's position themselves better which in theory would balance the game simply by switching unreal keeper reactions for better positioning so they they don't need to react as quick but with the same result. Theorising obviously.

I won't know what the case is till i play the game but i have seen shots fly past the keeper even though the ball is pretty much next to him (a Messi v Casilles goal posted in a video on this thread did just that). That'd negate my theory.
 
adelante said:
Obvious flaws aside, it's nice to see more than two people jostling for a header in that last video (at 1:44)

ri7txw.jpg
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Am I the only one who thinks that those player models look far too big compared to the pitch and especially the goals?
 
vondave said:
Really? Is it that simple?

I was shite at them on the WC game. Never once hit the corner. They were all lame just off centre, at perfect height for the keeper, or miles wide
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not really that simple the more power you put in the more chance you have got of it going wide if you push to one side too long and thats even if you release before you hit the ball.

I normailly go for around 1/4 power and hold for 3 secs
 
I have posted my initial impressions from the PES demo in the right thread. But, as it has some mentions to FIFA 11 and some usual memebers of this thread may be interested, I post it here. I'll spoil it not to annoy the rest of you that don't bother at all at what I think (you're doing the right thing, maybe).

I haven't had the time to write a proper review of the demo. I've played mainly full manual fifa those 2 last years. I tried Pes2010 and played a full ML with it, only to find too many shortocmings in the technical department that made the game fall down to me.

But after trying this demo extensively these last days, I really must say I'm amazed at how they've changed this game for good.

Individuality, as Jimmy, Romagnoly and others say, is VERY impressive, but also the tactical depth that now, with a decent gameplay, shines.

So, there are LOTS of things I don't like of the demo, and the game still has many technical shortcomings, specially in the animation blending and some unbalanced things and odd ball physics here and there. Not to mention the terrible terrible aerial play in midfield, with players totally static waiting for the ball and then bang, a binary outcome. There are a LOT of things that are not polished and won't be in the final game, and lots of things that are "restrictive" and would be easy to fix: 360º passing from goal kick, 360º passing for any foul kick, abbility to have 2 men when kicking any foul anywhere in the pitch, there's some ballooning now and then in shots, the BLOODY AWFUL crossing animation with the toe, and a lot fo things like that....

But these flaws can't detract me from playing again and trying new tactics and things. I'll say it once and for all, the gameplay IS brilliant, even with those blatant technical shortcomings.

I still think passing should be much more "manual" and much more difficult, specially the through passes that in my oppinion are too easy to perform (also because deffensive AI do strange things or have very low awareness sometimes) and may be an online gamebreaker. Let's see.

But really, I'll definitely will buy and play the game gladly, and I know I'll be a tactical bitch. With all it's glaring shortcomings, the gameplay is so great and the funamentals work so well, that I'm even thinking if I'll buy Fifa or not. I know Fifa will have lots of minor improvements, but what I want is decent positioning, decent tactics, decent tackling system, a lot of fouls when pressuring like a bull... the basic things that make football what it is. I want the MINDS to be over the athletes, and PES allows me to play like that, while FIFA must surely won't.

I was so happy when I watch the bayern players unable to barge Xavi off the ball... or having Messi storming defenders by simply moving and shifting weight at a brutal pace. And then I can take Bayern and foul a lot in the midfield to break Barcelona's passing game. Individuality is there for greatness.

I hope I'll have time to write some more things later on or tomorrow, now I'm just too busy at work, but thinking on these past days with the demo made me smile. Good for PES after some very deceiving years.

As a short way to put it:
- I wish Fifa 11 had the tackling/dribbling, individuality, skill representation, tactics and defensive AI of PES.
 
Scorpio said:
Pretty cool new penalty system. Was this brought over from the WC game?

YouTube - FIFA 11: Basic Penalties Tutorial
Click to expand...



"Completely new analogue aiming system" - to me, that means if I tilt my stick slightly off centre, the shot will be slightly off centre. If I tilt my stick as far as it will go, it will be right in the corner (or miss, depending on power/composure).

NOT hold for longer for more off centre. That sounds shit.
 
@ Drekkerd re PES

Have to agree in general with your impressions, however I do find the technical defitioncies very high and am worried that the lack of responsiveness will just make it too much of a slog for me. Playing with Inter and seeing that Alessandro has 92 dribbling (meaning he is going to be as responsive as it gets) means that I just can't play intricate dribbling in midfield. Something I did manage with WC2010 and which should be better for 11. I love skipping past a player just to keep possesion and passing it about. I did put the level down to regular, having only played on pro, which made it somewhat better. At the moment it really is a time to be wishing that we could merge half of each game in to one as it would be utterly amazing together.

Re penalties, I think they have gone to far with them. Q_R is right that just holding a direction for a certain amount of time is pretty crap. The pressure bar is great, however I do think they should have kept the control to analog aim (as it was) and that that would be the best overal. And have those two aspects put through a player stats filter to determine how close your aim gets to execution.
 
quiet_riot said:
"Completely new analogue aiming system" - to me, that means if I tilt my stick slightly off centre, the shot will be slightly off centre. If I tilt my stick as far as it will go, it will be right in the corner (or miss, depending on power/composure).

NOT hold for longer for more off centre. That sounds shit.
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It is better than it seems, but I would have preferred the alternative, mainly because it is basically impossible to change corners once you've started moving the aim in one direction since it moves so slowly.
 
TikTikTikTikTik said:
@ Drekkerd re PES

Have to agree in general with your impressions, however I do find the technical defitioncies very high and am worried that the lack of responsiveness will just make it too much of a slog for me. Playing with Inter and seeing that Alessandro has 92 dribbling (meaning he is going to be as responsive as it gets) means that I just can't play intricate dribbling in midfield. Something I did manage with WC2010 and which should be better for 11. I love skipping past a player just to keep possesion and passing it about. I did put the level down to regular, having only played on pro, which made it somewhat better. At the moment it really is a time to be wishing that we could merge half of each game in to one as it would be utterly amazing together.
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Yes, I agree entirely with you, but the dribbling part of PES is just a matter of mastering. I've done amazing dribblings in the midfield with Alessandro. He's just not fast, but he can use skill to make the difference, something I really really wish I could do in Fifa in a more natural way. Merging the good things of both games would create the best videogame of all history, no doubts about it.

In WC2010, my main concerns were AI, overdone strength and tactics. Can't see how Fifa 11 can improve any of that. I feel to enjoy Fifa implies forcing the game to be played in a way it's not designed to. And I don't know if I'll be in the mood for battling again "against the game" for a whole season.
 
Interesting to read your views on PES2011 demo, Drekkard.

I've not played it, but comparing videos of it against FIFA2011, I must say that it's PES that I'm more looking forward to trying. FIFA2011 looks too like 2010, so I pretty much know what it's going to "feel" like. But having not played PES for 2-3 years, I've forgotten what it feels like and am kinda looking forward to trying it again.

There's a lot I don't like the look of in PES2011, the ball physics looks off (strange friction with the ball slowing down in exactly the same way every time it's kicked...just looks weird to me), some pretty nasty looking ping-pong stuff, and some reports of typical PES crappy stuff happening, but overall, it looks more convincing than the non-stop pixel-perfect ping-pong FIFA. It seems EA have it within their engine to make it good, but choose to keep it arcade for the casual masses.

But it's the genuine stats and tactics in PES, rather than the superficial stats and tactics that mean virtually nothing in FIFA, that I want to taste again. I'm sure PES will still be chock-a-block with cpu cheats (just like FIFA), but I can see me playing PES for single-player and FIFA for 10v10 online.

This might be the first year when both games genuinely have something decent to offer. I look forward to slaughtering them both when they come out.
 
I'll defo be buying both.

I've not touched PES for 3 years, bar giving Pes 10 a bit of a chance a couple of weeks ago (very average)

I am/was a FIFA full manual player.

I love the PES 11 demo, despite a few flaws, and am more excited about it than FIFA. He's taken his time, but Seabass has delivered.

I'm amazed at it's improvement over last years version. If only Fifa were the same
 
gameklip said:
The silence from EA in that thread is deafening. Pretty sure they're strongly considering a huge tweak patch at launch...
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They have to weight their response carefully

When I heard about pro passing, I knew it was bs

For PP to be effective, the game would change too much for EA's comfort

They have to sell the game to 12 yr olds, which is why there has to be an arcade mode in these so called football sims.

Trying to balance a sims and an arcade game in one hand is a very trick situation.

The one button control doesnt even solve that problem.
 
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