Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

[Gg1]

Seems like there some special Effects for the FIFA Interactive World Cup
look:

and you get information in the game(like ball possesion)

 

[AlaaEG]

That will be in year 14 of their 3 year plan.......

Sure?

 

[Lami]

Frankly, I don't even mind that. All that FIFA 10 really needs is fixing. It wouldn't be perfect if it was, but it would be by a long margin the best football on the market and I'd happily spend £40 to get something to solve the issues.

FIFA 10 without the horrendous pressure, without the assist problems, without the goalkeeper chip exploits, without the setpiece exploits, wtih a slower game speed... sounds like an excellent game. FIFA really isn't at the point where it needs any particular innovations in gameplay. It just needs to do what's really damned obvious to all of us.

I've managed to play 700+ games on Clubs, and most of it is the most depressing, frustrating experience ever! But if the problems which affect 10v10/11v11 were fixed it would be one of the most fantastic gaming experiences ever. So I'm honestly happy to pay for fixes. Question is - is it fixed?

Maybe it's not as simple as just "fixing". They might have done many things right but if the core formulae the gameplay is based on is wrong, then everything built around won't do much.

 

[Rodelero]

Maybe it's not as simple as just "fixing". They might have done many things right but if the core formulae the gameplay is based on is wrong, then everything built around won't do much.

But the formulae the gameplay is based on isn't wrong. It's very easy to tell this when two people who want to play good football play against eachother - because you get a very solid game of football. It lacks certain things, like players having personality, it lacks atmosphere, but in terms of the core fundamentals it's actually there.

It's just hidden behind all the muck.

If there is any part of the game which is severely wrong it's the defensive side - and it is pretty bad. It could be botched together to make it solid - though it's probably the only thing which could benefit from a big back-to-the-drawing-board year. If you mix the best parts of FIFA 08, and FIFA 10 together, you get a wonderful game in most regards. Is that game FIFA 11? Even though it was kinda implied it might be by some who played early, I'm not sure.

I really don't think this game needs the engine renewal some do - it has a gameplay engine at least as advanced and capable as its competitor - they just seem incapable of making the decisions to bring it out.

 

[stilts1844]

This video made by the guys at FSB is worrying YouTube - FIFA 11 Gameplay - Real v Barca

Mostly because the first time passes have absolutely no directional error, only the slight distance error from the pro passing. Also if you look at the touch by Pedro at :32, is something I've always had a problem with in Fifa, the is passed to him on a diagonal and it kind of just gets sucked into him... this would seemingly be an instance where the first touch might cause the ball to fall a little bit away from the player, but that doesn't happen... it's just instant control.

 

[StuartCulli]

Yup, the perfect control is utter shit.

 

[ant0n]

This video made by the guys at FSB is worrying YouTube - FIFA 11 Gameplay - Real v Barca

Mostly because the first time passes have absolutely no directional error, only the slight distance error from the pro passing. Also if you look at the touch by Pedro at :32, is something I've always had a problem with in Fifa, the is passed to him on a diagonal and it kind of just gets sucked into him... this would seemingly be an instance where the first touch might cause the ball to fall a little bit away from the player, but that doesn't happen... it's just instant control.

I'm not impressed at all.

Now all that is left for EA to fuck up is the stupid custom tactics with high pressure and the like.

 

[mfmaxpower]

Well, isn't that what transfer windows are for?

I like the sound of it. You don't have to sign them, and I'm sure you'll still be able to search the player database on your own like usual, if you want to. But now we have a scout that's actually more like a real scout, recommending real players from other clubs.

C'mon, you sort of misrepresented my post with your choice selection of quotes. The point of my post was not to criticize the new scouting feature so much as to argue that they took out a major feature and replaced it with something a) that does not fulfill a similar function; b) may or may not be useful; and c) is a relatively minor add-on considering the scout will only be used during transfer windows while the previous scouting feature was a useful tool throughout the season.

Again, I'm not against this new addition, but there was no reason it couldn't be added while keeping the old scouting mechanism. After all, it's not as if you were forced to use the scout at all, but for some it was a nice feature.

I'm really getting tired hearing people say they are glad EA removed this or that feature from MM because it wasn't realistic though the feature(s) were optional and some of us enjoyed them. This thinking is complete crap. MM is a fantasy mode, in essence it's a RPG where you're taking on not just one role but many roles at once - manager; player(s); owner/GM; and negotiator. And we'd like even more features to be added that would add to those roles, such as a stadium editor (architect) and training sessions (coach). This is not to say realism should not be a goal, but until realistic replacements are incorporated, unrealistic features are not necessarily an evil in a game mode that's meant to allow us create our fantasy football club.

I also find it a tad hypocritical considering the new budget allocator has been welcomed with open arms. The manual player growth feature - an optional feature, like using the scout - was criticized for not being realistic because a manager doesn't get to so closely choose how a player develops, and yet managers don't get to choose how their budgets are allocated, or for that matter what their budgets are.

Now you can argue that you'd be fine if the player growth system was replaced with a more "realistic" training feature, where we'd have a more limited and general say in a player growth, and I could be fine with that. And I'd also be fine if the scouting feature had been replaced with an academy or youth system, but it wasn't and that's my point. These features were not replaced, just removed, and that's not kosher, imo, especially considering they were optional features not required to be used - they didn't impact your game unless you wanted them to.

My point is the more EA remove from MM - especially those features that add to immersion, that add to the feeling we are creating and molding our own club - the more CM will appear to be like a season played in tournament mode, just with news updates and the transfers. That is the complete opposite direction I'd like to see this mode go. So far I see EA taking away options - like being able to have your VP in your team and control the whole squad on the pitch like last year - while adding very little. That's disparaging, especially when looking at the (limited) improvements made elsewhere in the game.

**Note: I maintain the right to fully retract all comments made in the case EA prove me wrong by announcing new additions to CM. I fully hope, though do not expect, to exercise said right.

 

[Lami]

But the formulae the gameplay is based on isn't wrong. It's very easy to tell this when two people who want to play good football play against eachother - because you get a very solid game of football. It lacks certain things, like players having personality, it lacks atmosphere, but in terms of the core fundamentals it's actually there.

It's just hidden behind all the muck.

If there is any part of the game which is severely wrong it's the defensive side - and it is pretty bad. It could be botched together to make it solid - though it's probably the only thing which could benefit from a big back-to-the-drawing-board year. If you mix the best parts of FIFA 08, and FIFA 10 together, you get a wonderful game in most regards. Is that game FIFA 11? Even though it was kinda implied it might be by some who played early, I'm not sure.

I really don't think this game needs the engine renewal some do - it has a gameplay engine at least as advanced and capable as its competitor - they just seem incapable of making the decisions to bring it out.

What I mean by core formulae, is the fundamentals of football, like passing, shooting, balance, first touch, controlling the ball, trapping, etc. I don't find that simulated in Fifa 11. All I see is every player receiving a pass totally and perfectly under control every time and swiftly turning to an angle without losing any balance. If only some players with great technique do that then its normal, not when every player in the game does it perfectly though. Less skilled players should get the ball under control first before making any accurate pass for example. If things like this are implemented in Fifa, plus everything good they already have then it should be a truly amazing game.

 

[winston]

It's ping-pong city, it looks real shitty.

But Real v Barca? No imagination, what a pity. How about Bolton v Stoke City, or something. FFS.

 

[Fc_Zenit_Fan]

It's ping-pong city, it looks real shitty.

But Real v Barca? No imagination, what a pity. How about Bolton v Stoke City, or something. FFS.

Dont think they have access to the other teams (6 teams in total at GC this year, same will be for the demo). While it's still currently ping-pong, I see a potential of the system, granted EA is willing to tune the pro-passing error pre/post-launch. It's very important for those who go play the game next week to stress the increase in the amount of error and effect of stamina on players' abilities.

 

[mfmaxpower]

Frankly, I don't even mind that. All that FIFA 10 really needs is fixing. It wouldn't be perfect if it was, but it would be by a long margin the best football on the market and I'd happily spend £40 to get something to solve the issues.

FIFA 10 without the horrendous pressure, without the assist problems, without the goalkeeper chip exploits, without the setpiece exploits, wtih a slower game speed... sounds like an excellent game. FIFA really isn't at the point where it needs any particular innovations in gameplay. It just needs to do what's really damned obvious to all of us.

I've managed to play 700+ games on Clubs, and most of it is the most depressing, frustrating experience ever! But if the problems which affect 10v10/11v11 were fixed it would be one of the most fantastic gaming experiences ever. So I'm honestly happy to pay for fixes. Question is - is it fixed?

Dunno, think I might agree more with Nick's comments. How are you so certain that the changes we want to happen aren't bigger than you make them sound, especially if changing one thing has knock-on effects?

I don't have the link but in a videogamer.com interview, a PES producer was saying the same exact things as Nick - that while EA have focused on refinement, PES is taking a major step forward this year. You could chalk that up to marketing but from someone who follows both franchises, I think it's a pretty fair assessment at this point. Also in that interview, they talk about how their goal is to win back the hardcore fans because they know the rest will follow in the future, and that should be alarming to EA because the "hardcore" so far seem pretty disappointed with FIFA's "refinements."

I think where you may be going wrong is using 11v11 as a starting point - 11v11 is almost an entirely different game and it should always be 1vCPU that is used as the base for judging the game. If playing against the CPU is fixed, then the rest should fall into place. And that being said, I don't know that refinements are enough, but we may be just mincing words. My point though is that fixing stamina, defensive and offensive AI, dribbling, first touches, physical interaction, acceleration and sprint speeds, individuality, context error, etc.... these all could be bigger problems than you think. You seem to have more confidence FIFA has the engine it needs, or at least that we want.

After all, if FIFA 10 didn't need major fixing but only refinement, don't you think they could've done so in one year? Why is it we've heard about a new stamina system but they don't know if they have the time to get it in this year? And that's just for stamina! I admit, I don't know jack about game engines, but could it be possible they've got major issues with it?

Or is it EA are just unwilling to make these big changes? If that's the case, then let's go PES!!

 

[romagnoli]

mfmax - I don't know anybody who thought scouting for fake players was anything otter than utter shite. The fact they took it out and replaced it with scouting for real players is about as big a plus mark as MM/CM has ever had to it's name. As such I completely agree with nerf. He was asked how the fake scouting would work this year and replied that it was removed and replaced with something much better.

 

[Fc_Zenit_Fan]

Ok, two things I might be missing from all these gameplay videos. What exactly is this 360 fight for possession? It looks exactly like FIFA10 or am I missing something? Another this is, has anyone seen more than 1 player from each team going for the ball? I also remember someone from FSB (Adam) saying that goalkeepers this year are on another level compared to FIFA10 and you can see the huge difference. To me they look the same. Anyone seen anything to prove me wrong? Thanks!

 

[mfmaxpower]

mfmax - I don't know anybody who thought scouting for fake players was anything otter than utter shite. The fact they took it out and replaced it with scouting for real players is about as big a plus mark as MM/CM has ever had to it's name. As such I completely agree with nerf. He was asked how the fake scouting would work this year and replied that it was removed and replaced with something much better.

Bull crap. Plenty of people liked the ability to add new talent throughout the seasons, it was just the mechanics were poor and people hated that created players didn't have faces or realistic names etc.

More importantly, you're still missing my point. Yes, scouting for fake players was shite, but it was a major part of developing your team. Maybe I'm missing something here, and maybe more will be announced, but this new scout seems to only help you make decisions in who to add to your team, which I'm not sure I'd even need.

So you're talking about apples and oranges here: even though they both are called scouting features, the replacement is not a real replacement, in which case there was no reason to remove the old feature to add the new.

Without the previous scouting feature, and without a real youth development/reserve team/academy system, there's now no way to add undiscovered youth to your team. As unrealistic and shite as the feature may have been, some of us did enjoy the OPTION to add scouted players to our team.

Look, they've taken out player form. They've taken out scouting for undiscovered youth prospects. They've taken out the ability to manage player growth. These three features alone are major tools - I guess at least for some of us - in developing our clubs, and they have all been removed either this year or last without a suitable replacement installed. Sorry but I'd like more not less.

 

[johnny_on]

Ok, two things I might be missing from all these gameplay videos. What exactly is this 360 fight for possession? It looks exactly like FIFA10 or am I missing something? Another this is, has anyone seen more than 1 player from each team going for the ball? I also remember someone from FSB (Adam) saying that goalkeepers this year are on another level compared to FIFA10 and you can see the huge difference. To me they look the same. Anyone seen anything to prove me wrong? Thanks!

Sorry no, that's why we're all having a bit of a whinge.

considering the lack of new modes or mode upgrades, I honestly thought all their work would go into the gameplay, but it's just not there, on screen in any of these vids.

I wanted AI players on both teams to be able to defend I wanted a real stop to ping pong and I wanted stamina to make a real difference. they have had a year to do what everyone sees as the problems. they are all still there.

 

[Murkurial]

He didn't answer the question because it no longer applies to the new scout. It recommends real players, not generating fake ones. The question was about generated players. New youngsters will still be generated at CPU clubs like they always have been.

So then, no more created youngsters then? You're now limited to the youngsters, or veterans who are already in the game. So by year 5 when your scout has already seen most of the youngsters that other teams have to offer, you just dance with who you've got for the next 10 seasons?

Is the game going to make the way that CPU players in other leagues progress more dynamic or will shit youngsters starting at a 60 never get in the game and thus never improve to get on your scouts radar?

I don't really understand the argument against scouting fake youngsters. NBA 2k and Madden do the same thing for draft classes every year. Granted the drafts are a major part of the offseason but with the way MM deals with player growth, retirements, injuries, rarely if ever do you really NEED to make any changes to your squad. The youngster angle added quite a bit to the mode in that regard and again, given what I've seen from EA in this mode and every other facet of their game, I can only imagine how half-assed this could be.

mfmax - I don't know anybody who thought scouting for fake players was anything otter than utter shite. The fact they took it out and replaced it with scouting for real players is about as big a plus mark as MM/CM has ever had to it's name. As such I completely agree with nerf. He was asked how the fake scouting would work this year and replied that it was removed and replaced with something much better.

I dunno, unless you don't know football at all, you're going to know most of these real players who your scout will suggest to you. And if it's a youngster on a squad like Sochaux that you've never heard of, will he become good enough to get placed on your scout's radar? Do players receive potential ratings? He didn't really explain how this new scout evaluates these real players. He's not going to Ibrahimovic and suggset him to you is he?

Somehow I doubt that EA have put enough into this to justify the removal of the fake youngster feature. Hopefully it isn't, oh, Berbatov retired...you should go get Benzema, or Ibra, or Grafite, or Heskey (I'd fire him in this case), or Carew.

This almost sounds like the guys who were all like "I'm so glad they removed kit number editing..." when EA claimed that it was the least used feature in MM. Only to bring it back a year later.

 

[Rodelero]

Dunno, think I might agree more with Nick's comments. How are you so certain that the changes we want to happen aren't bigger than you make them sound, especially if changing one thing has knock-on effects?

Any change has knock on effects, I don't really think that's the point - but if you go with what is real and then tweak from there you're much less likely to go wrong. There are some changes with FIFA which could definitely be enormous - the defensive fixes for instance - but to get the game to be to where FIFA 10 should have been? Probably not so hard.

I mean as I said before - if you think of a game like FIFA 10 with the pacing and balance of FIFA 08 - that's what I want. They've had all the elements there before, its about getting them in the testtube at the same time.

I mean, personally I'd love to imagine that each year EA would totally renovate this part of the game and that - but that's a big ask. To make FIFA a 9/10 game in terms of gameplay, it needs fixing, it needs refinement. I'd love huge innovation - I'll settle with fixes - because I know that there is no point of any change if they aren't going to fix the parts which are hurting the game so much.

I don't have the link but in a videogamer.com interview, a PES producer was saying the same exact things as Nick - that while EA have focused on refinement, PES is taking a major step forward this year. You could chalk that up to marketing but from someone who follows both franchises, I think it's a pretty fair assessment at this point. Also in that interview, they talk about how their goal is to win back the hardcore fans because they know the rest will follow in the future, and that should be alarming to EA because the "hardcore" so far seem pretty disappointed with FIFA's "refinements."

I'd reply to that by saying that EA need to refine/fix, and PES desperately needed to make major leaps. That's my personal belief.

I too have concerns about what EA's intentions are when it comes to the hardcore - I'm a lot more confident that Konami really want me to play their game - but that's really aside from the point. To say that refinements aren't the answer because EA's ones might not be right, is really not logical. Though I'm not sure how good 'refinement' is as a word. It's much more than that. Refinement flatters FIFA 10 - it implies it's not broken. Some of FIFA needs refining, a lot of it needs wholesale fixing.

I think where you may be going wrong is using 11v11 as a starting point - 11v11 is almost an entirely different game and it should always be 1vCPU that is used as the base for judging the game. If playing against the CPU is fixed, then the rest should fall into place.

Can't agree with this at all. The problems in 1vCPU are so, so different from the problems in 1v1/11v11. The game's flaws are almost entirely dependent on the way the AI thinks. This is why if you watch the gameplay of 1vCPU for FIFA11 it actually DOES look pretty good. It's better paced, the AI seems a lot less stupid (hard to tell in a short period of time), a lot less repetitive, and a lot more intelligent. Yet, every 1v1 video shows many, many problems. The CPU is dictated by what it has been designed to do - whereas humans are dictated primarily by what is effective/enjoyable (the latter being highly subjective). Therefore, humans are much, much more likely to find the problems in teh game than the CPU or for that matter a human playing the CPU.

In many ways all three modes need to be tested - you have to test 1vCPU to make sure that the team AI is working well - but there are SO many things you are liable to miss. Once you go online you get a whole new set of problems - and all of those problems are present in 1vCPU, you'll just never notice them.

But in 11v11, you get it to a whole new level than just 1v1 - because with the ability to move 11 people individually, you can exploit/find/experience problems to entirely new levels - and this is what you find if you play on Clubs. Again, the problem is there in 1v1 and 1vCPU, but you'll notice it first, and most prominently when playing with many people on both teams. If you want to give the core non-AI game mechanics the best test possible, 11v11 is the best way to do it - and I'd suggest that EA do a lot of their testing on this in future. What works for 1v1 often doesn't for 11v11 - but what works for 11v11 should work pretty well for 1v1 assuming the AI is order.

You certainly cannot make this game 'fall into place' by playing 11v11, or 1vCPU or 1v1 exclusively. Focusing foremost on 1vCPU would be disastrous for all online modes, though I'm sure great for people who only play 1vCPU.

And that being said, I don't know that refinements are enough, but we may be just mincing words. My point though is that fixing stamina, defensive and offensive AI, dribbling, first touches, physical interaction, acceleration and sprint speeds, individuality, context error, etc.... these all could be bigger problems than you think. You seem to have more confidence FIFA has the engine it needs, or at least that we want.

Refinement and fixes is what I desperately want. I'd love more on top, I'd love them to rebuild the defensive system, the stamina system et cetera... but I recognise that there are a few relatively simple things holding the game back. They are a question of will, not time, not technical ability, but will.

Again, I refer to my general list of things which are hideously wrong:

Assists
Defensive AI
Goalkeepers
Pressure
Game Speed

The only one of them which should be that difficult is defensive AI - but whether they will do #1, 4, and 5, comes down to whether they have the courage to do it.

After all, if FIFA 10 didn't need major fixing but only refinement, don't you think they could've done so in one year? Why is it we've heard about a new stamina system but they don't know if they have the time to get it in this year? And that's just for stamina! I admit, I don't know jack about game engines, but could it be possible they've got major issues with it?

Doubtful. They just probably have a big idea of how to do it properly - and are settling with botching the current system in

Or is it EA are just unwilling to make these big changes? If that's the case, then let's go PES!!

The problem is PES has to actually catchup first, maybe they have got it this year, in which case it's going to become very tempting should EA dilly-dally further.

 

[Rooney10]

This video made by the guys at FSB is worrying YouTube - FIFA 11 Gameplay - Real v Barca

Mostly because the first time passes have absolutely no directional error, only the slight distance error from the pro passing. Also if you look at the touch by Pedro at :32, is something I've always had a problem with in Fifa, the is passed to him on a diagonal and it kind of just gets sucked into him... this would seemingly be an instance where the first touch might cause the ball to fall a little bit away from the player, but that doesn't happen... it's just instant control.

this video makes me laugh.

to think a few ppl came back from playtests and bragged about the game.

the next time you guys come back from a playtest and write a long essay, i'm gna show you EVERY video that has been released about fifa lately and ask you to wake the hell up.

seriously, esp the romagnoli guy, you were seriously talking big about THIS GAME?

 

[mfmaxpower]

This video made by the guys at FSB is worrying YouTube - FIFA 11 Gameplay - Real v Barca

Mostly because the first time passes have absolutely no directional error, only the slight distance error from the pro passing. Also if you look at the touch by Pedro at :32, is something I've always had a problem with in Fifa, the is passed to him on a diagonal and it kind of just gets sucked into him... this would seemingly be an instance where the first touch might cause the ball to fall a little bit away from the player, but that doesn't happen... it's just instant control.

Well what about the pass at :27? I'm on an old computer so I can't see the animation that well but it looks like he defies physics to turn and then place a perfect pass. Am I seeing it wrong?

 

[Murkurial]

Well what about the pass at :27? I'm on an old computer so I can't see the animation that well but it looks like he defies physics to turn and then place a perfect pass. Am I seeing it wrong?

Not really sure what's going on there. He turns incredibly quickly after trapping the ball with his right, and he either passes it blindly with the outside of the right again, or somehow gets his left leg around super quickly to make another pass. All while a Madrid player is pretty much right on top of him.

------

In the Leverkusen/Madrid match that a lot of people seem to be gushing over, everytime a Madrid player gets the ball they're able to seemingly rotate in place before playing the next pass, all while the ball is stuck to their feet. An issue with the engine clumsily replicating foot placement/weight transfer and the need to take extra touches to set up the next pass, but the ease of turning in this game REALLY takes away from the realistic animations that everyone keeps going on about.

Some of the movements just look so ridiculous.

 

[Rodelero]

What I mean by core formulae, is the fundamentals of football, like passing, shooting, balance, first touch, controlling the ball, trapping, etc. I don't find that simulated in Fifa 11. All I see is every player receiving a pass totally and perfectly under control every time and swiftly turning to an angle without losing any balance. If only some players with great technique do that then its normal, not when every player in the game does it perfectly though. Less skilled players should get the ball under control first before making any accurate pass for example. If things like this are implemented in Fifa, plus everything good they already have then it should be a truly amazing game.

I think you have to look at it progressively. Both passing and shooting are now contextually simulated with more fidelity than any football game before it. They may not be tweaked right, but the capability is there and what's more is they have added these things in since the new engine. I have a lot of concerns about whether the new passing system is tough enough - but it certainly isn't lacking the potential depth. It's only a case of transferring that depth across to other things ...

As for balance, touch, well, I think there are fair suggestions in the videos that first touch has been improved quite a lot - again, I don't think it's quite right, I don't think it's tough enough - but it may be hard to tell until we get to experience lower down teams. Obviously, we'll know more in a couple of days. The problem is that FIFA is currently, in terms of online, crucified by certain problems. Adding in better simulation of balance isn't going to make a jot of difference to that in all honesty. It won't improve the game much because you still will be coming up against the wall of shit that FIFA so often is.

Don't get me wrong, FIFA has a long way to go, as does the other game, but it could be taken from horrendously broken to something-good-to-build-on with some quick steps which would for everyone who likes playing the game online esp. in any mode take it to a new level. If I was designing FIFA, and thank God I'm not, my primary objective would be to fix it - adding in relatively small things for the sake of realism alone and failing to fix the major, major problems is disastrous.

I'm certain their engine is capable of all of this - whether EA have the understanding/will to do it is the question for me.

@Rooney10 - every single one of those people who 'bragged' about the game has said that it looks nothing like the game they played a while back

@Murk/MF - the pass is made with his left. It does kinda look like the animation skips a beat but I'm not so sure it's that unrealistic. His first touch controls it and he moves around the ball, quickly flicking off the pass with his left. His touch/pass are a basically turning him around to point the way he passes.

 

[mfmaxpower]

What I mean by core formulae, is the fundamentals of football, like passing, shooting, balance, first touch, controlling the ball, trapping, etc. I don't find that simulated in Fifa 11. All I see is every player receiving a pass totally and perfectly under control every time and swiftly turning to an angle without losing any balance. If only some players with great technique do that then its normal, not when every player in the game does it perfectly though. Less skilled players should get the ball under control first before making any accurate pass for example. If things like this are implemented in Fifa, plus everything good they already have then it should be a truly amazing game.

What worries me is it appears that FIFA is based all around physical attributes and everything else - like the above-mentioned fundamentals of football! - seem peripheral. To me this seems like a problem that goes straight to the core of FIFA - maybe not the game engine but like someone else said, maybe it's a core problem with the philosophy behind the game, which could be just as big an issue.

Determining whether the problem lies with the game or the dev philosophy may be the most important question of all, no?

Ok, two things I might be missing from all these gameplay videos. What exactly is this 360 fight for possession? It looks exactly like FIFA10 or am I missing something? Another this is, has anyone seen more than 1 player from each team going for the ball? I also remember someone from FSB (Adam) saying that goalkeepers this year are on another level compared to FIFA10 and you can see the huge difference. To me they look the same. Anyone seen anything to prove me wrong? Thanks!

I know, it's so easy to forget those were announced as additions to the game. P+ too for that matter.

The only thing different I can see is PP, but only error in pass power not the contextual error aspect.

I haven't played the WC game all that much but so far I haven't had any issues with GKs and I haven't seen enough video to tell that they're any different for FIFA 11. Unless I'm missing something, as long as they're as good as in WC they should be fine.

 

[Rodelero]

Well, the whole point of P+ is to make things which aren't physical attributes matter more. I'm certain that EA both GET that personality matters and that they lack it - I just think in those videos its so hard to actually feel it because of the constant pressuring bullshit.

Either way, can't wait to feel this game. If it's as bad as many in here obviously think, then at least I'll know;

 

[mfmaxpower]

So then, no more created youngsters then? You're now limited to the youngsters, or veterans who are already in the game. So by year 5 when your scout has already seen most of the youngsters that other teams have to offer, you just dance with who you've got for the next 10 seasons?

I think, as Nick mentioned, other clubs would still generate new created players each season. So basically every other team would have a built in youth system except for you. As we think through this more, there's gotta be important stuff we don't know cause not only would this suck but it'd be a downright unfair advantage for the cpu teams! Scouted players were an important source for money dammit!

I don't really understand the argument against scouting fake youngsters. NBA 2k and Madden do the same thing for draft classes every year. Granted the drafts are a major part of the offseason but with the way MM deals with player growth, retirements, injuries, rarely if ever do you really NEED to make any changes to your squad. The youngster angle added quite a bit to the mode in that regard and again, given what I've seen from EA in this mode and every other facet of their game, I can only imagine how half-assed this could be.

Exactly what I'm saying. Having computer generated players in the game is a necessary evil to simulate the process by which players become part of senior squads. It'd be nice if they implemented a better and more realistic system to do this but I don't agree with removing what we had until they do.

I dunno, unless you don't know football at all, you're going to know most of these real players who your scout will suggest to you.

I know, it sounds like a noob feature, something for the casual crowd (big surprise there). I'm hoping there's much more to come. I can't believe this is it.

 

[mfmaxpower]

An issue with the engine clumsily replicating foot placement/weight transfer and the need to take extra touches to set up the next pass, but the ease of turning in this game REALLY takes away from the realistic animations that everyone keeps going on about.

Some of the movements just look so ridiculous.

Before I read your post I rewatched that vid and I was thinking exactly the same thing - for all the talk about realistic animations, to me they're fundamentally broken because they defy physics. The speed at which players can turn is unbelievable.

I think on :27 it is a pass with the outside of his boot. Would've been really sweet except for how perfect it all came of under pressure.

 

[StuartCulli]

this video makes me laugh.

to think a few ppl came back from playtests and bragged about the game.

the next time you guys come back from a playtest and write a long essay, i'm gna show you EVERY video that has been released about fifa lately and ask you to wake the hell up.

seriously, esp the romagnoli guy, you were seriously talking big about THIS GAME?

It's not their fault that EA pussied out from what would have been a much improved game. They just took the easy way out.

 

[Placebo]

This almost sounds like the guys who were all like "I'm so glad they removed kit number editing..." when EA claimed that it was the least used feature in MM. Only to bring it back a year later.

Errr in which parallel universe? I haven't read a single post where anyone thought it was a good thing you couldn't edit kit numbers, the official forums near melted with thread after thread of people complaining about its removal (and rightly so obviously).

It's not their fault that EA pussied out from what would have been a much improved game. They just took the easy way out.

I hope EA producers get pulled to fuck when they all go to the gametest next week is it?

 

[Murkurial]

Errr in which parallel universe? I haven't read a single post where anyone thought it was a good thing you couldn't edit kit numbers, the official forums near melted with thread after thread of people complaining about its removal (and rightly so obviously).

There were quite a few on the "offical" boards but they were quite often throwaway lines from fanboys. My point was that I don't really see this as something that one could justify removing. Or argue in favor of unless it's solely for the sake of argument.

When everyone's saying "I can't believe you got rid of kit number editing!!!" and then one guy's like "who cares about that crap..." That's the vibe that I was getting from his comment. At the very least, I don't recall anyone having too extreme an opinion on it one way or the other. Definitely didn't hear anyone saying that it desperately needed to be removed from that game. Enhanced perhaps, but not removed altogether and replaced with...nothing in the way of finding hidden gems.

I guess he's really spoken with guys who despised the feature, and as I respect Rom's opinion much more than the troglodytes on the EA boards, it just struck me as odd that he would seemingly make something of an excuse for yet another feature removal.

-----

Something tells me that they'll come back in FIFA 12 with created youth player scouting again and call it something else. Or maybe they'll give us a proper academy (too many teams though, can't really see it). There's so much that they could do with that mode though and it's odd that they keep removing things. Things that have nothing to do with updating kits and things that they claim can affect licenses. Things that don't involve cup competition atmosphere. Something as simple as more detailed stats. Keeping records of stats through the seasons for every player, again...Madden and NBA 2k allow you to do this for...30 seasons is it? Expand whatever algorithms they use to compile stats for one season, and allow it to include indivudual players, teams, trophies won, throw in some historic records to break, etc., etc. Little shit like that. Stuff that they apparently already have in their manager game and stuff that FM has in spades.

They claim to have fixed transfer logic but I'll have to wait until release to see if they really have and if there are still massive bugs in this mode then I don't know what to say. They leave out the little things, take out previous features, and still appear to fuck up what they're trying to add. For reasons unknown to me, porting over the managerial features of FM or Fifa Manager into this games MM is a no-go, but they need to at least try and pull some more of those features into the game. All of this happens before anyone steps out on the pitch and yes, code is sensitive and changing one thing can have a dramatic effect on another facet of the game, but I hope I'm not giving EA too much credit when I say that I think they can figure out how to prevent bugs within MM from affecting the way the game plays (if that's the major concern of course; I've never really been given a legit explanation).

Really, if they've removed fake youth scouting then there's nothing that we can do, but the other additions aren't giving me a whole lot of hope when it comes to the mode's prospects. I don't think I've touched MM since FIFA 08 simply because it feels like it's been the same every year.

 

[mfmaxpower]

I'd reply to that by saying that EA need to refine/fix, and PES desperately needed to make major leaps. That's my personal belief.

Good comeback. Although I'd suggest what you're implying is there is a fixed goal - a perfect game - and EA are closer than PES to meeting that goal. Thus PES, being further behind, require bigger progress than EA.

But of course there's no such thing as a perfect game, and as such there's no reason for major leaps forward shouldn't be the goal each and every year. I'd say this makes further sense when you add in the importance of game modes, graphics etc beyond core gameplay. If they'd made major advances in CM this year then we'd at least all be here saying, well they clearly put all their effort into a manager mode this year. (God I wish that's what we were talking about!)

It's interesting, in that article the PES guy said they believe that EA think that FIFA has beaten PES, as in the competition is over. If this were true, it'd at least explain claims for why EA are "sitting on their laurels".

In many ways all three modes need to be tested - you have to test 1vCPU to make sure that the team AI is working well - but there are SO many things you are liable to miss. Once you go online you get a whole new set of problems - and all of those problems are present in 1vCPU, you'll just never notice them.
...

the problem is there in 1v1 and 1vCPU, but you'll notice it first, and most prominently when playing with many people on both teams. If you want to give the core non-AI game mechanics the best test possible, 11v11 is the best way to do it - and I'd suggest that EA do a lot of their testing on this in future.

Interesting. I don't play much 11v11 so what problems are speaking of. The reason I ask is I spend a good amount of time on the forums and I've get to hear a major issue with the gameplay that is not found when playing the CPU - every thing on your general list of the hideously wrong is a major problem in 1vCPU.

The problem is PES has to actually catchup first, maybe they have got it this year, in which case it's going to become very tempting should EA dilly-dally further.

See, I think this is where a lot of people are getting it wrong: PES does not necessarily need to "catch up" per se, it just needs to be playable, enjoyable, and true to the PES tradition. PES is so much better than FIFA when it comes to what's important about playing football that they can be a step or two behind, like in animations, but still have a better football sim. Yea, this won't get the casuals - they don't even expect to, based on that interview - but they just need to get the hardcore first.