Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

Coopz said:
Has Rom said its different or are people just assuming it is?

Surely they wouldn't make such drastic changes from one build to another in that short space of time
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Its hard to put a finger on it. Rom seems to think they have reigned back some of the passing error and stuff, to me it looks like a better textured version of the build we played in Canada with missing animations put in.

I am guessing its a combination of Beta refinement and tweaks that have made the game appear to play slightly differently.
 
Ah that's OK then, it was sounding like they have reworked the whole thing since someone played it but adding little tweaks is to be expected
 
Stramash said:
Rutter is the senior producer. He doesn't make all the decisions.

The choice for gameplay is balanced between the gameplay team and what they can achieve/develop and refine for each iteration balanced against the marketing team wanting a game as accessible as possible to the most amount of people.

FIFA 08 had tremendous flaws to be honest, it was not the "joy" or simulation that people remember. The ball and players were on rails there was no physical play, no 360 movement.

It wasn't that slower either. Because the players and ball had such limited movement there was no real freedom or flexibility meaning you could predict with certainty where each player on the pitch was going to be at anyone time. This made it repetitive and not fun.

Will see on Monday how this version of FIFA 11 compares to the version I played in Canada.
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While FIFA 08 did have tremendous flaws it did actually have a better overall balance than 09 and 10. That's what people remember, and that's what people want back. No-one is saying - get rid of the physical stuff, the 360 dribbling, and a lot of the other technical improvements - but in adding all of these, in decreasing acceleration times and so forth the game suddenly just lost its balance entirely. A game which used to be based on footballing logic - pass and move - work the defence has turned into a constant pressure shitstorm.
 
Rodelero said:
While FIFA 08 did have tremendous flaws it did actually have a better overall balance than 09 and 10. That's what people remember, and that's what people want back. No-one is saying - get rid of the physical stuff, the 360 dribbling, and a lot of the other technical improvements - but in adding all of these, in decreasing acceleration times and so forth the game suddenly just lost its balance entirely. A game which used to be based on footballing logic - pass and move - work the defence has turned into a constant pressure shitstorm.
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I have to disagree. Pace was a massive part of 08. It was one of the single most problems with the game.

In 08 you didnt need to time your pace, you just had to give it to Ronaldo and sprint. Because the acceleration curve was crude it meant that he could maintain much top speed and it factored very little if he was controlling the ball.

There is no real depth in footballing logic in FIFA 08 it was just a sharpened version of 07 which was a dire game.

Speed for example is a relative thing and is too consistant. In real life a player will never recreate the same sprint over and over again, its the timing of the sprint that makes the difference not the out right speed.

I actually think that the WC game has it balanced suitably well. Pace can be effective but it is just one of many things at your disposal.
 
Stramash said:
I actually think that the WC game has it balanced suitably well. Pace can be effective but it is just one of many things at your disposal.
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It's a good foundation but unfortunately 11 is not based off WC it's based off a branch between 10 and WC (if I remember correctly what Rom said?)
 
Placebo said:
It's a good foundation but unfortunately 11 is not based off WC it's based off a branch between 10 and WC (if I remember correctly what Rom said?)
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That's not how it works.

Basically the gameplay team work constantly on refining the gameplay regardless of which title is due out (annual or special).

Granted there may be specific features for special titles but beyond that its the same code base being constantly refined. There are hundreds of "branches" from the main "trunk" of the code base as thats the only way to trial things without breaking the main code in the trunk.

FIFA 11 is based directly on the FIFA 10 and FIFA WC code base. The new physicality stems directly from the physicality in the WC game along with other features.

The gameplay development is a constant cycle and doesn't start and stop with each new game.
 
StuartCulli said:
We think it's just an entirely different build to what Rom and co. played at Guildford.
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It's not entirely different. But certain aspects of it seem to have been changed, deliberately or inadvertently, for the worse. The end result is a very differen football game.

It almost seems as if some of the 'weight' of the players was deemed to be a bug.Now the weight I felt in the game was not on PES levels, and a fair amount of it was in the feel of the pad and how the players pushed against each other. But it seems as if the turning rate/animations have been 'fixed' to be faster. The passing seems more accurate when I asked for it to be less so, and the increased pace of the game seems to be leading the defence to go walkabouts.

I do think most of what we can see wrong with this build can be rectified via the gameplay tuning system and I did say the dribbling was taken from WC2010/that it wasn't a completely new game, so the fact there are some similarities shouldn't be a shock. But the fact that the gameplay looks almost identical in most offbeat videos is not something I was expecting at all. A few of the vids look much better than others; true cynical part of me wonders though whether EA are leaking videos of the game being played 'properly' and stopping the public making vids of the game playing like FIFA 10. Unlikely though - we'll all be playing the demo/at Gamerbase soon enough.

The problem for EA is that Konami have really stepped up their game this year and have made sizeable innovations/improvements in the sorts of areas that are specifically aimed at the hardcore football fan.
 
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romagnoli said:
It's not entirely different. But certain aspects of it seem to have been changed, deliberately or inadvertently, for the worse. The end result is a very differen football game.

It almost seems as if some of the 'weight' of the players was deemed to be a bug.Now the weight I felt in the game was not on PES levels, and a fair amount of it was in the feel of the pad and how the players pushed against each other. But it seems as if the turning rate/animations have been 'fixed' to be faster. The passing seems more accurate when I asked for it to be less so, and the increased pace of the game seems to be leading the defence to go walkabouts.

I do think most of what we can see wrong with this build can be rectified via the gameplay tuning system and I did say the dribbling was taken from WC2010/that it wasn't a completely new game, so the fact there are some similarities shouldn't be a shock. But the fact that the gameplay looks almost identical in most offbeat videos is not something I was expecting at all. A few of the vids look much better than others; true cynical part of me wonders though whether EA are leaking videos of the game being played 'properly' and stopping the public making vids of the game playing like FIFA 10. Unlikely though - we'll all be playing the demo/at Gamerbase soon enough.

The problem for EA is that Konami have really stepped up their game this year and have made sizeable innovations/improvements in the sorts of areas that are specifically aimed at the hardcore football fan.
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no offense dude but this is exactly the lines adam used to feed us... are you sure it is a different version or you just got over the aesthetic differences between wc and 11 and realized they didn't change all that much? sometimes i will play a game and for the first few games i think it is amazing, then i start getting really bored with the gameplay cause not much has really changed that flawed the game in the first place... possibly this has happened with your experiences and 11?
 
Stramash said:
I have to disagree. Pace was a massive part of 08. It was one of the single most problems with the game.

In 08 you didnt need to time your pace, you just had to give it to Ronaldo and sprint. Because the acceleration curve was crude it meant that he could maintain much top speed and it factored very little if he was controlling the ball.
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It was 09 where you could burn players into dust by just giving it to Ronaldo and sprinting. 08 and 09 had the crude acceleration - but because 08 had it slowly it worked pretty reasonably - better than 10s acceleration in fact. 08 played a better, more reasonable game of football than FIFA 10 did online - and this was primarily because of its pace.

FIFA 08 is in almost every way less technically accurate, technically clever, but because it's the only one of 08/09/10/WC to have even close to reasonable pacing, it still came off as a better game overall once you went online. You don't need to model acceleration right to make a decent game - most people still look on PES5 as the best football game sim - clearly that game was technically not very clever - but it didn't need to be.

If you can't get the basic things right, as 09 and 10 didn't, none of the technical improvements really matter at the end of the day.

There is no point of modelling the curve correctly if you

There is no real depth in footballing logic in FIFA 08 it was just a sharpened version of 07 which was a dire game.

Speed for example is a relative thing and is too consistant. In real life a player will never recreate the same sprint over and over again, its the timing of the sprint that makes the difference not the out right speed.
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None of this changed from 07, 08, 09, or 10. Even now with analog sprint it's not really going to change that. Do you think FIFA 08 had better footballing logic, or FIFA 10? Because for me it's FIFA 08, definitely.

I'm not one of the people who constantly says "Go back to FIFA 08" becuase there is no doubt that the improvements in 09, 10, and 11 are good - I just think that something in 09/10 is broken badly, which utterly ruins the multiplayer experience for me.

A formation like 6-1-3 could never work on FIFA 08, for instance.
 
@ Gomito,

Well nearly everyone that went to these events were saying the same thing (both vancouver and guilford), so it's not like it was only Adam's special contact feeding info.

Tbh I trust what those guys have been saying, and the differences in the video's will partly go away when you play it (it will be slower, it won't be a bunch of to$$ers controlling the players and the p+ will be more apparant because ti will mostly be subtle differences in passing strength, turning speed, etc). I also think that the slower version they played could easily have changed with optimisations that while the dev team might have the same settings, extra/tighter animations could make a big difference aswell.

Tommorow will be D-day with all the evowebbers testing it out.
 
I'm not 'feeding you a line'. Every single person who went to Guildford, including Kevano who didn't post any hands on stuff in here at all, has said the speed of these vids is far quicker than anything we played.

The game we played was 50% complete. The game in these vids is, what, 90% complete (going by that message Adam passed on from a journo friend who has builds of both games - PES at 75%, FIFA at 90%). Of course there are going to be gameplay differences. There are still similarities but ultimately if you spend a couple of months polishing the game you can take out bugs that were actually balancing the game.
 
Rodelero said:
It was 09 where you could burn players into dust by just giving it to Ronaldo and sprinting. 08 and 09 had the crude acceleration - but because 08 had it slowly it worked pretty reasonably - better than 10s acceleration in fact. 08 played a better, more reasonable game of football than FIFA 10 did online - and this was primarily because of its pace.
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No, FIFA 09 typified the problem which was in FIFA 08 but less noticeable because of the way the game was more on rails. This forced you to play the exact same way over and over again.

It's no coincidence that pass across the back for and play it up the wing, cut back goal came from the easy of repeatability inherent in FIFA 08.

Because trapping was so poor in FIFA 08, response so poor the game didn't have any balance.

FIFA 10 whilst suffering from pressure issues, it actually a much more technical football game than FIFA 08 was. Alternative passes actually can happen and can allow for more creative build up.

Simple shielding improvements and not so on rails as FIFA 08 make it much much better than FIFA 08.

As with anything though nostalgia is a wonderful thing.

Rodelero said:
FIFA 08 is in almost every way less technically accurate, technically clever, but because it's the only one of 08/09/10/WC to have even close to reasonable pacing, it still came off as a better game overall once you went online. You don't need to model acceleration right to make a decent game - most people still look on PES5 as the best football game sim - clearly that game was technically not very clever - but it didn't need to be.
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PES 5 was a highly fun and playable football game, much in the same vain that Sensible Soccer is a fun and playable game.

By not being "technically very clever" it is highlighting the difficulty in making a good fun balanced game and the new generation (FIFA/PES) that are trying to replicate the finer points of football and all the nuances that go along with that.

Whilst there are flaws in the latest incarnations of FIFA and PES I for one don't want to keep looking back, we need to look forward and for me that is the deepening of the entire engines. I mean seriously who would want to play for a year a football game that isn't trying to implement physicality, 360 dribbling etc.

Rodelero said:
If you can't get the basic things right, as 09 and 10 didn't, none of the technical improvements really matter at the end of the day.
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The basic things are there are as is the way a better revision year on year.

Rodelero said:
None of this changed from 07, 08, 09, or 10. Even now with analog sprint it's not really going to change that. Do you think FIFA 08 had better footballing logic, or FIFA 10? Because for me it's FIFA 08, definitely.
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That's rather emotive.

FIFA 10 is the far superior game, for all the flaws and foibles its the closest any game has got to reproducing football on a console. Is it perfect no. Is it ultimately more fun than 08, probably not but then I want a better football game not a fun all the time football game.

Rodelero said:
I'm not one of the people who constantly says "Go back to FIFA 08" becuase there is no doubt that the improvements in 09, 10, and 11 are good - I just think that something in 09/10 is broken badly, which utterly ruins the multiplayer experience for me.
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Its the people I play that ruin the multiplayer experience for me. Its the exploitative nature of human "gamers" that find an flaw in a game and then milk it to fucking death.

Rodelero said:
A formation like 6-1-3 could never work on FIFA 08, for instance.
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Of course it could. The fact you didn't need to and just to use the 532 with Inter shows how flawed 08 was. Because it was so linear and predictable you had very limited ways to break down a 5-3-2 because of the running vectors and angles to goal always game the 5-3-2 team the advantage.

FIFA 08 was a nice game but it was the game that spawned the FIFA "winners" showing them how to capitalise on repetitive aspects of the game engine. Cutback anyone? Kick Off Goal to name but 2.

So for all its fun playability FIFA 08 was the catalyst for "exploiters" sure it was fun but very linear in comparison to PES and FIFA of the last 2 years.
 
Stramash said:
I have to disagree. Pace was a massive part of 08. It was one of the single most problems with the game.

In 08 you didnt need to time your pace, you just had to give it to Ronaldo and sprint.
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It wasn't hard to stop Ronaldo at all. At the beginning the pre update Barca was hard to stop (they were like gods) but Ronaldo never bothered me much on that game compared to 09 especially!

08 required a lot more skill compared to 09 and defiantly 10. If you were good enough you would stop these sprinters without much trouble at all. There were the odd few times you were unlucky but i was able to handle most of these players :COOL:

You can't stop those pressure crazed, sprint maniacs with 6-0-4 formations on 09 and 10 without doing the same thing yourself! This wasan't the case on 08, you could play good football and always have a decent chance of beating anyone!

Because the acceleration curve was crude it meant that he could maintain much top speed and it factored very little if he was controlling the ball.
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No, it was because his stats were through the fucking roof, that's why! There were many other fast players who simply were nowhere near as effective! His dribbling was something like 97 if i remember with the sprint speed, ball control. It was madness!

The on rails effect was a flaw but at the time there wasn't anything better so it was acceptable then!

There is no real depth in footballing logic in FIFA 08 it was just a sharpened version of 07 which was a dire game.
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I'm that game i used Besiktas and Fenerbache online a lot. Possession was huge in that game, i could also create many well worked passing goals which i very much enjoyed. There were glaring flaws butt he game was very well balanced, I'm sorry it sounds like you never really got grips with the game.

I actually think that the WC game has it balanced suitably well. Pace can be effective but it is just one of many things at your disposal.
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:LMAO: That game is a joke! I was playing it a few days ago! :LOL: it's so arcadey it's just makes me smile. It's actually fun until games as usual get repetitive and your scoring the same goals over again! Hilarious playing it though. The balance and player individuality is just, laughable really. Gusev s better than Shevchenko upfront because he's faster? :LOL:
Also Drogba, the incredible hulk? You don't need to even make an effort with him, pass it to him he just barges everyone out of the way and blasts home :BRMM:

On FIFA 08 you actually had time on the ball to play football, plus players were weighted and moved far more realistically. (apart from he sprinting on rails). Ball physics were also brilliant (It had that PES feeling where you have a pop and you always had a chance of scoring using semi) In the world cup game they just skate and glide all over the pitch. No to mention the dire formations :BYE: Don't forget the pressure :WORSHIP:
 
Stramash said:
FIFA 10 is the far superior game, for all the flaws and foibles its the closest any game has got to reproducing football on a console. Is it perfect no. Is it ultimately more fun than 08, probably not but then I want a better football game not a fun all the time football game.
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I would say it reproduces "running around with a football" in a way that might be the best ever, however it doesn't really reproduce football, because positioning, tactics and all that are not really that close to real life football.

And Jay, not sure if you're being serious but I think it's looking better too. It's just that a few things really ruins the whole experience. If the defenders have better positioning, individuality upped a bit (more potential error in accuracy) and that they didn't float around so much with the ball - I'd be much more happy with how it looked.
 
Rodelero said:
A formation like 6-1-3 could never work on FIFA 08, for instance.
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Thats simple why! Midfield is the most key area in football! It's where most games really are won and lost! With so many players back (6-0-4) you invite too much pressure on your team and you have issues linking the play and getting forward to support the attacks because there is no midfield.

If you look at Greece in the world cup who played with 5 at the back, they had big issues attacking and creating decent chances! Because their wasn't sufficient support for the lone frontman Samaras!

In FIFA 09 and 10 Since every first touch is perfect and body weight and momentum is non existent in 09 and 10, and it's so easy to pass, defenses don't work together and keep a solid shape. The midfield dosen't matter. Just pass forwards, again, again and again because the strikers will always be in space :)

These weren't issues in 08, it was the running on rails and worring about getting screwed and one of the many gameplay flaws and limits whats my concerns but balance was there!

There's no fundamentals there in 09 and 10! So you can't really call it a football game even!
 
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It's because it was on rails. You had no freedom just repeat repeat repeat.

There was no need to use the midfield but because you could guarantee a player was there and couldn't be tackled you could just ping it around. That is not football that is a game with very limited creativity.

How can a game as ridged as FIFA 08 be considered a better game? It was like going bowling but with bumpers in the gutters.....
 
I'd sooner have the bumpers in the gutters than just be able to hit a strike every time.

It's not enough for one game to be more technically proficient than another. It's got to apply those, as a whole, as well as possible. 360 dribbling doesn't make for an automatically better game; neither does physicality. It's got to be about balance. A technically inferior but well balanced game is a much better game.
 
Indeed, but the fact is that FIFA 10/WC are less restrictive than previous games. Issues yes but less restrictive with more onus on the player to do most of the work.
 
Stramash said:
It's because it was on rails. You had no freedom just repeat repeat repeat.
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PES 5 was technically on rails too :CONFUSE: Still you used your midfield and could create some extremely nice, well worked passing goals which required effort. Unlike in 10 where after 3-4 normal passes without really thinking your either through on goal on int he oppositions penatly box!

There was no need to use the midfield but because you could guarantee a player was there and couldn't be tackled you could just ping it around. That is not football that is a game with very limited creativity.
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I starting to think your maybe angry about losing out to some Ronaldo sprinters who you had problems beating, they were probably cunts who sent you stupid messages after beating you. I didn't take mych notice in those players, i just rematched them, then usually i would be winning then they quit! You get people like that on any football game :(

Did you use the d-pad tactics? Did you use the center back attack function? Did you use manual through balls? Did you use semi shooting (very importnant, You weren't limited to sweetspots like with 09 and 10, you could score from anywhere)

Really helped when probing and building attacks! Worked wonders with teams like Milan :WORSHIP:

How can a game as ridged as FIFA 08 be considered a better game?
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It's was far more balanced representation of football compared to it's predecessors despite it's glaring flaws. You had to work in 08, in 09 and 10 it's all easy ping pong! I find that with FIFA 10 the dribbling/ball control system is dreadful despite it's huge potential and better technology than 08.

FIFA 10 feels much nicer than in 08 and it feels more free but it's unhuman like movement in the most part. the speed at which players turn and can change direction is not realistically represented in context to the players weight, foot placement and momentum. No player, not even Messi or Maradona could even dream of moving in the way they do on FIFA 10! In 08 this was represented in a far more realsitic fashion!

The issues with 08's dribbling system was that when you ran in a straight line you were on rails and at times when you attempted to use the trick stick but the player didn't respond at all! :CONFUSE: Along with the response issues which came up every now and again.
 
Klash, because something is easy doesn't mean you have to do it.

Not sure what you mean by d-pad tactics in terms of using them
 
klashman69 said:
:LMAO: That game is a joke! I was playing it a few days ago! :LOL: it's so arcadey it's just makes me smile. It's actually fun until games as usual get repetitive and your scoring the same goals over again! Hilarious playing it though. The balance and player individuality is just, laughable really. Gusev s better than Shevchenko upfront because he's faster? :LOL:
Also Drogba, the incredible hulk? You don't need to even make an effort with him, pass it to him he just barges everyone out of the way and blasts home :BRMM:
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Think your being overly critical on Fifa WC. IMO its far better than Fifa 10 and is also much enjoyable. I enjoy the computer using skills on me and have enjoyed some really good football matches against the Classic XI (Best team in the game). Scoring the same kind of goals? Not really mate, cos if you remember in Fifa 10, the only way you was sure of a goal was two methods; 1)finesse 2) Blast it.

I used to hate when i was like 6 yards out and i would shoot only to see the goal keeper have superman instincts and save any shot. The only way to solve this was to put the power bar over half way or finesse. But in the world cup game they have reduced the effect of finesse and also made the Goal Keepers more human like. I've scored plenty of different goals, some true gems which i wish i could of saved. Your point about Drogba being Hulk? Well i do agree that Pace & Strength are the most valuable characteristics in the game, however Drogba is a beast in real life lol He does barge ppl out the way and holds the ball up really well. If someone is faster than someone else, it should show. I wouldn't appreciate if I was running with Lennon only to be caught up by someone slower. See time and time again in real life faster players beating slower ones (Anelka, back in the day Owen lol, Torres etc).

I don't know how to define the Arcadey definition. In my opinion it means taking a player and running through most of the team, cut back and score...or PES 6 syndrome. End of the day its personal preference isnt it, but I honestly believe Fifa WC is a really good football game and if Fifa 11 is based on it with improvements, I would be happy. I would also be extremely happy if Pro goes back to its roots and it certainly looks like it might be doing that :).
 
I don't think Klash was banned from here for trolling. It's the bloody smilies! I'm annoyed before I've even read the post!
 
Can people who are going to the playtests this week and are going to post a review, can they please post it in the 'festival of fifa' thread, aswell as in here?

i'm really interested to here your thoughts on the game, especially the people who i play fifa with on a regular basis, so i'd like them to be easy to find.

thanks lads
 
What the fug is that at 1:38.

God. Where is all of this shit coming from? I sent them every single bit of feedback from here and from the suggestions thread and I double checked that Gary had seen nerf's Youtube vid and several posts/vids. People complained about it daily. I kept saying in PM's, 'make sure the defensive lines are fixed. And what do we find here? One defender running back while the others hold some imaginary line 5 yards further up.

God. Backing off to avoid getting outpaced is one thing, but the gap between the two is massive. I'd far sooner get beaten by high lines and be able to set them deeper than be forced to have high lines and be forced to watch the centre back keep a 6 yard gap from the striker.
 
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