eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

Some more gripes, not gameplay related this time:

Why don’t they make different overlays and presentation for Europa League games etc? Everything is still so sterile.

What in the love of god has happened to atmospheres? Even the licensed teams like Man Utd and Milan the crowds are WOEFUL. Loooong periods of silence in every game I play. Immersion killer.
 
TS is a half-arsed mechanic that could be good if it was implemented properly, with realistic effects.

This Tweet shows me that they have no idea


Why the fuck should "Team Spirit" have any impact whatsoever on how players feel to control or change their physicality? If TS is the solution to these complaints then the TS system is completely shite from the ground up.

Fast players should still be fast, strong players should still be strong, and they should be able to control/dribble/pass/finish exactly the same whether they are on a perfect wavelength with teammates after 5 seasons together, or day 1 on the training ground.

What should perhaps be affected...

Off-the-ball movement
How well your tactical instructions are followed
Defensive positioning/partnerships
Team cohesion
Team morale (maybe affecting contract negotiations)

For all of these to be reflected properly in a good TS system, you'd need much more detailed player attributes and a massive overhaul of the tactical options/training...
 
rojofa said:
TS is a half-arsed mechanic that could be good if it was implemented properly, with realistic effects.

This Tweet shows me that they have no idea


Why the fuck should "Team Spirit" have any impact whatsoever on how players feel to control or change their physicality? If TS is the solution to these complaints then the TS system is completely shite from the ground up.

Fast players should still be fast, strong players should still be strong, and they should be able to control/dribble/pass/finish exactly the same whether they are on a perfect wavelength with teammates after 5 seasons together, or day 1 on the training ground.

What should perhaps be affected...

Off-the-ball movement
How well your tactical instructions are followed
Defensive positioning/partnerships
Team cohesion
Team morale (maybe affecting contract negotiations)

For all of these to be reflected properly in a good TS system, you'd need much more detailed player attributes and a massive overhaul of the tactical options/training...
Click to expand...
Brilliant post and you’ve summed up what I’ve been trying to get at far better than I could have.
 
rojofa said:
TS is a half-arsed mechanic that could be good if it was implemented properly, with realistic effects.

This Tweet shows me that they have no idea


Why the fuck should "Team Spirit" have any impact whatsoever on how players feel to control or change their physicality? If TS is the solution to these complaints then the TS system is completely shite from the ground up.

Fast players should still be fast, strong players should still be strong, and they should be able to control/dribble/pass/finish exactly the same whether they are on a perfect wavelength with teammates after 5 seasons together, or day 1 on the training ground.

What should perhaps be affected...

Off-the-ball movement
How well your tactical instructions are followed
Defensive positioning/partnerships
Team cohesion
Team morale (maybe affecting contract negotiations)

For all of these to be reflected properly in a good TS system, you'd need much more detailed player attributes and a massive overhaul of the tactical options/training...
Click to expand...

Means nothing either. I made a team of a bunch of players I like that where most have little to no link to each other in real life and I had 83 team spirit from the start of ML.

GK - Igor Akinfeev
CB - Juan Jesus
CB - Ethan Ampadu
CB - Jeffrey Bruma
DMF - Blaise Matuidi
DMF - Marek Hamsik
AMF - Diego
RMF - Ricardo Quaresma
LMF - Marcus Thuram
CF - Gabriel Barbosa
CF - Tim Weah

Why would that group have 83 team spirit immediately? What even is the criteria for it?
 
How do you press the CPU when they pass the ball at their back? My two attackers are inefficient and my midfielder position themselves in front of my back four even though I set them at the max position for midfielders on the team sheet.
Turn gegenpress on? Level up att/def level? Any tip?
 
Whoever watches the Napoli vs Liverpool clash tonight, let's have a discussion about Pes 2020. Do you think there are not enough fouls in the videogame? 3 fouls in 45min and the speed is +1 in this CL game? Shots going to the stands from inside the box?
I can go on and on but the fact is that Pes 2020 is right now the absolute football sim. Yes it has its flaws but the fundamentals of football are there. My advice is take a mid table team in any league, top player, 20 or 25 minutes match time. Do you want extra challenge? Move to Superstar. Yes, cpu ratings will boost but that's why difficulty levels exist in videogames.
 
Mikhail said:
You've hit the nail on the head here (bolded part).

All of my matches on my Man Utd save end 1-0 (if I'm lucky and the CPU allows me to win), 0-1 loss or 1-1 (usually the CPU scoring an equaliser in the 90th minute, resulting in me crying and/or screaming.)

It's just getting tedious now. I'm trying to stick in there this year, and not give up on an otherwise excellent game of digital football. But it's chipping away at me, slowly and surely.

I think I'll give it a few more matches in Master League and then call it a day (again) on PES for this year.

Speaking of old PES games, they had scripting too, definitely. But in PES 5 ML, the CPU script would kick once or twice in every 3 matches or so. It's was bearable and because technology was limited at the time, you put up with it because it kept the game challening and interesting.

Now, the script is just pure BS. My pet hate with PES this year, and last (modern PES) is when the CPU takes the lead and then sits deep for the remaining 70+ minutes. They do that thing where you can just run with your CM up the pitch because there's no player near you. BUT as soon as you approach their penalty area, your player will decide that he cannot pass to a team mate or shoot on target. It just looks and feels bizarre, nothing like a real football match.
Click to expand...
This was the reason I abandoned SuperStar on 2018 after 4 years of consecutive MLS in SS and went down to TopPlayer. The SS AI does not face you with football terms, stats, strategy etc. It uses Just terms of video game cheating. It denies the stats in favor of CPU for runs, collisions etc. And all I achieved was, once my team became OP, I was SPAL in the serie B and had 4* rating while all other teams were below 3*, and my skill reached a human level where it was impossible to lose, all my games were 1-0 wins and every 4~5 games the CPU was trying to “challenge” me , making impossible GK saves to dipping shots by Depay and denying me goals with any possible and impossible way, just for the match to end 0-0 draw, but I tell you I had almost 20 shots, 15 on target on those games.The only thing CPU could do was deny goal. They couldn’t even pass the midfield.
After this mentality that removed any immersion and became just a HUmanVSmachine, i tried TopPlayer were there were of. Purse easy games where you win 4-1,3-0 but the scores were more varied, the football played was more beautiful and the CPU still had its moments were they could win me with some cynical attacks.
It is more fun at least. Superstar is only good to. Have an OP team and experiment how you can surpass your human limitis. It is not unfortunately the appropriate level to simulate a football season, not even in 2020.
And trust me the AI has so many “scripted moments” , that can score 3 goals against us even in regular, if it wants to.
 
slamsoze said:
This was the reason I abandoned SuperStar on 2018 after 4 years of consecutive MLS in SS and went down to TopPlayer. The SS AI does not face you with football terms, stats, strategy etc. It uses Just terms of video game cheating. It denies the stats in favor of CPU for runs, collisions etc. And all I achieved was, once my team became OP, I was SPAL in the serie B and had 4* rating while all other teams were below 3*, and my skill reached a human level where it was impossible to lose, all my games were 1-0 wins and every 4~5 games the CPU was trying to “challenge” me , making impossible GK saves to dipping shots by Depay and denying me goals with any possible and impossible way, just for the match to end 0-0 draw, but I tell you I had almost 20 shots, 15 on target on those games.The only thing CPU could do was deny goal. They couldn’t even pass the midfield.
After this mentality that removed any immersion and became just a HUmanVSmachine, i tried TopPlayer were there were of. Purse easy games where you win 4-1,3-0 but the scores were more varied, the football played was more beautiful and the CPU still had its moments were they could win me with some cynical attacks.
It is more fun at least. Superstar is only good to. Have an OP team and experiment how you can surpass your human limitis. It is not unfortunately the appropriate level to simulate a football season, not even in 2020.
Click to expand...
I’ll start a new ML with a different team on Top Player and see how it goes I think. I’ll choose a ‘small’ club in a lower division and work my way up.

Hopefully I’ll find it more enjoyable this way, thanks for the advice.
 
Mikhail said:
I’ll start a new ML with a different team on Top Player and see how it goes I think. I’ll choose a ‘small’ club in a lower division and work my way up.

Hopefully I’ll find it more enjoyable this way, thanks for the advice.
Click to expand...
It is unstable but funny moments. In my current ML in TP with defaults, and 50 TS I lost 3 games easily and then when the owner message come that we need a win , next game away aVS the 1st team I won 1-4. It was like the AI was “switched off”.
I want to conclude that all these , difficulty ,TS, AI cheating are playing us more than we play the game! :)
 
fear said:
Whoever watches the Napoli vs Liverpool clash tonight, let's have a discussion about Pes 2020. Do you think there are not enough fouls in the videogame? 3 fouls in 45min and the speed is +1 in this CL game? Shots going to the stands from inside the box?
I can go on and on but the fact is that Pes 2020 is right now the absolute football sim. Yes it has its flaws but the fundamentals of football are there. My advice is take a mid table team in any league, top player, 20 or 25 minutes match time. Do you want extra challenge? Move to Superstar. Yes, cpu ratings will boost but that's why difficulty levels exist in videogames.
Click to expand...
My advice is not to take one single 45 minutes of a football match that suits your argument and conclude that it reflects football generally.

http://www.footcharts.co.uk/index.cfm?task=basics_fouls

Granted this is just Premier League, but you can see that the average fouls per game is around 10 for each team in each game, so around 20 fouls a game.

Widen your research if you want to make a point that holds some weight.
 
NIK778899 said:
My advice is not to take one single 45 minutes of a football match that suits your argument and conclude that it reflects football generally.

http://www.footcharts.co.uk/index.cfm?task=basics_fouls

Granted this is just Premier League, but you can see that the average fouls per game is around 10 for each team in each game, so around 20 fouls a game.

Widen your research if you want to make a point that holds some weight.
Click to expand...
Thank you.

So sick of people watching one game of football and saying "see, X does happen" (no foul games, top level teams hitting from defence to attack all game like the midfield doesn't exist, tiki-taka at a lower level, whatever it is).

Obviously this stuff happens. Occasionally. As always, the problem with PES is that whatever the issue is, it happens every bloody game.

Frequency is the problem. The problem isn't that the thing *ever happens*. It's that it *always* happens. Nobody has ever said otherwise.
 
An interesting days play in the online space, both in Matchday mode and in MyClub.

Unbeaten all day over 1 match in Matchday (which I won; awarded 4* star scouts for both Inter and Milan) and 9 in MyClub.

I'm actually enjoying online play, yet see these "content creators" in the youtube/twitch space bitching and whining about it. Have a theory.

While it cannot be claimed for 1 second that online plays perfectly, in MyClub things feel better balanced in terms of skill v. team strength. These "content creators" who I've noticed suggest otherwise, do play on PA2/3 and do, without shadow of doubt, spend a lot of coin to a silly degree. They are, in other words, players with the the greatest sense of self-importance and entitlement. They aren't getting it all their own way. That isn't all on the game unfortunately. For them.

This is a good thing if spending doesn't equate to winning, or at the very least ensures that if they want to play with their superstars they will be finding themselves in the 5* zone, which thankfully seems to be now for the spenders, and they can just deal with that so far as I'm concerned. Like I (or others) should be giving a damn if some dude in his mid-20's making a tidy sum off of streaming is no longer getting it his own way.

The strongest team I can put together is 4* and today I went unbeaten in 9 MyClub matches, a lot of those v. 5* strength teams. A fair few were PA3 users too as I haven't turned filters on. Thoroughly enjoyable session, with the usual caveats that come with online play. Thing was I was able to play the game I wanted. I was (mostly) able to play the football I like and enjoy.

The combination of numerous factors, little changes and introductions, means MyClub seems a "decent" online mode. Yes, they are being generous but that isn't a negative, at least on the face of it. I read the Eurogamer review and it was awful odd (more completely disconnected) when the guy said that such generosity compared to FUT was a bad thing. What an insane critique to have when the spotlight is firmly on pay-to-win/gambling mechanics in games. That is another view from the entitled.

Just thought I'd share my experience of the day. It (online play) isn't going to drag me away from Master League, but it thus far is proving a decent alternate option to play. Game hitting a bit of a sweet spot for me then; I feel like I am getting my moneys worth. Happy days, so far.

PS - They could do with bringing in an option to allow you to bring your defenders in at goal kicks. I was bringing one in manually in online matches and it did have impact on me being able to build moves. Caught pressure mad players out. Nice touch.
 
LaGarraCharrua! said:
I read the Eurogamer review and it was awful odd (more completely disconnected) when the guy said that such generosity compared to FUT was a bad thing. What an insane critique
Click to expand...
Because it's fun having a team better than Man City on day/week one, and not having much to work towards in terms of improving your squad (I wouldn't consider taking them from 85 OVR to 90 OVR or something like that a huge journey), right?

All that's left is playing matches, no squad building or grinding - if all you want is the matches, why not just play the standard "season" modes or whatever?
 
Chris Davies said:
Because it's fun having a team better than Man City on day/week one, and not having much to work towards in terms of improving your squad (I wouldn't consider taking them from 85 OVR to 90 OVR or something like that a huge journey), right?

All that's left is playing matches, no squad building or grinding - if all you want is the matches, why not just play the standard "season" modes or whatever?
Click to expand...
Exactly. What's the point if not to build your squad and keep you interested for the whole year? Having a god squad so early on quickly becomes boring.
 
rojofa said:
TS is a half-arsed mechanic that could be good if it was implemented properly, with realistic effects.

This Tweet shows me that they have no idea


Why the fuck should "Team Spirit" have any impact whatsoever on how players feel to control or change their physicality? If TS is the solution to these complaints then the TS system is completely shite from the ground up.

Fast players should still be fast, strong players should still be strong, and they should be able to control/dribble/pass/finish exactly the same whether they are on a perfect wavelength with teammates after 5 seasons together, or day 1 on the training ground.

What should perhaps be affected...

Off-the-ball movement
How well your tactical instructions are followed
Defensive positioning/partnerships
Team cohesion
Team morale (maybe affecting contract negotiations)

For all of these to be reflected properly in a good TS system, you'd need much more detailed player attributes and a massive overhaul of the tactical options/training...
Click to expand...

100% agreed.

It often feels like the PES team have no idea about football. Or they are lazy either way it isnt good.
 
Mikhail said:
Some more gripes, not gameplay related this time:

Why don’t they make different overlays and presentation for Europa League games etc? Everything is still so sterile.

What in the love of god has happened to atmospheres? Even the licensed teams like Man Utd and Milan the crowds are WOEFUL. Loooong periods of silence in every game I play. Immersion killer.
Click to expand...

The atmosphere is dreadful but I don't think they've helped themselves with the sound mix either. I happened to be playing with headphones on earlier and I was picking up chants I'd never heard before because they're so quiet. The chants should be echoing round the ground not something faintly in the distance.

I also had a bizarre thing where I subbed off my goal scorer, the crowd all got up to give him a standing ovation but the audio as he came off was just silence! You could see them clapping in the stands but there was no sound :LOL:
 
Chuny said:
Also, I know we all tend to like slower paced games.
But just watching the CL games tonight, everything feels on +1.
Click to expand...

I Just watched Barcelona and B. Dortmund and even tho I cant judge How pes Speed can be compared to It in terms of ball Speed and player movement, I believe the most importante aspect is trasitionning by Far, and I think thats what we should ALL Focus on.

I see that the transition from defence to midfield and attack is always gradual, You Just can not link defence-midfield-attack Very quickly with Just few straight forward passes. Players need to make lateral and backwards passes a Lot to slowly advance on the opponents field. Reaching the final third requires some patience.

Most of the times, when You have one team dominating ball possession like Barcelona usually does, the other team has almost ALL the Men behind the ball even with the defence line not Far from the midfield circle, midfielders are always there, jockeying, closing space, following ball movement around the pitch, not giving much chance to forward passes, close to the defence line, Very compact.

In real life, 1 min of ball possession is enough time to have that scenario in wich the midfield draws back Very organized and forces the other team to make lateral passes. Theres simply no considerable space between defenders and midfielders and the latter from attack. What dictates weather the team plays defensively ir advanvrd How high up the pitch the lines are and the team attitude, nothing Else.

I notice that in football, ball possession is Lost more often due to opponents read and anticipation than from tackling. This is a big thing since It reforces the fact that football is more a tatical and colective game than a constant 1 on 1 encounter like It is in online gameplay with the ridiculously non sense Hunter pressure as if attacking the Man on the ball as Quick as possible is ALL that matter.

A Lot of the times possession is Lost due to a forced atempt of stealing the ball happens in midfield, wich usually result in fouls. Stealing the ball clean is by Far one the hardest challenge in football and this is treated as the most ordinary, easy thing in football videogames for ages.
 
SJ321 said:
The atmosphere is dreadful but I don't think they've helped themselves with the sound mix either. I happened to be playing with headphones on earlier and I was picking up chants I'd never heard before because they're so quiet. The chants should be echoing round the ground not something faintly in the distance.

I also had a bizarre thing where I subbed off my goal scorer, the crowd all got up to give him a standing ovation but the audio as he came off was just silence! You could see them clapping in the stands but there was no sound :LOL:
Click to expand...
Good point re: the sound mix. I have to turn commentary a little louder than everything else otherwise it all sounds like a mess of noise!
 
NIK778899 said:
My advice is not to take one single 45 minutes of a football match that suits your argument and conclude that it reflects football generally.

http://www.footcharts.co.uk/index.cfm?task=basics_fouls

Granted this is just Premier League, but you can see that the average fouls per game is around 10 for each team in each game, so around 20 fouls a game.

Widen your research if you want to make a point that holds some weight.
Click to expand...
I'm not pointing to just one game. If you check my posts I have already said that I'm using Leicester in a ML and I'm having an average of 10-14 fouls per game in total, 25min match time.
What I'm trying to say is that most of us we are very judgmental to a videogame that this year does most things right.
If you want more details I'm not using too much the RS but with just the LS I'm earning tons of fouls with Madisson, Perez, Tielemans and Vardy.
Again this is my experience with this years game, others might have another experience. The only thing I would patch as I posted before here is the hesitance occurring in loose balls and some more cpu aggressiveness to have more fouls and penalties.
 
NIK778899 said:
Exactly. What's the point if not to build your squad and keep you interested for the whole year? Having a god squad so early on quickly becomes boring.
Click to expand...

Meant to insert Chris' Response too.

I believe it is a little bit more than just team strength being the ultimate goal, or at least doesn't need to be. The mode (like FUT) is like a card collector/sticker book mode for some fans, with others I dare say playing to obtain their favourites and those might not always be the best the game has to offer. Elsewhere, some users maybe like playing with weaker squads. In that respect there will still be grinding if you want it.

All that apart, I wouldn't claim Konami have it spot on anyway, but their mode is proving more consumer friendly compared to FUT and I will take that over anything when considering these modes. EA should never get praise, direct or otherwise, for their current model.
 
Emroth said:
Its more on rails coz it creates less collisions. Less collisions mean less fouls.
Everything is connected.
They put it more on rails and increased power and accuracy of holding X defending, so it doesnt get called as a foul.

Now they know they cant just reverse it. (Or they dont want to reverse it).
So they will look somewhere else. What can make it more smooth and without struggle?
Well how about we decrease physicality, so AI wont be able to hold you back from behind?
And like that - everything that made it special is getting fucked.
Click to expand...

Not to mention the pass meter (at least on manual) will fill up faster now to counterbalance the more difficult dribbling. Its only half a second or so but its enough to make passes feel less physical and more shallow and cheaper.

Let me elaborate just a bit an unnecessary amount, because i believe what they did to the passing is exemplary for the changes between 1.0 to 1.2. Where the former is more about rythm, instinct and feeling and the latter represents better the strategy, challenge and ratio. Both are parts of football and both versions offer something thats very good. But man, if they can hit that sweet spot somewhere in between.

So, in my eyes, what the demo showed us, was that passing should mostly require not just a tap, but an actual and thick button press. Just like a real pass requires effort, time and concentration. A nuanced and subtle power meter can go a long way in translating that physicallity and suspense. In the demo every pass felt tangible somehow and releasing the pass became the climax of you finding that bit of space to perform it.

Not saying it is an anti-climax post-patch, far from it, but its just not the same. I do not feel i need that tiny bit of extra space every time to perform a more difficult / longer pass. I do not feel that me pressing the button actually represents the time it takes for my player to swing his leg, look up, look down and hit it with effort and intention.
What i do feel and see is that, when i am done with my press, there's often a very tiny delay and the resulting kick seems too fast in relation to my press. Its like watching a movie where the audio is just a few miliseconds faster then the video.

Surely Konami knows the faster the meter fills, the less weighty and tangiable the act becomes. They study that connection between input and output on a daily basis. First touch passes require just a tap because you will need to substract part of the power the ball already from your normal timing. And i also believe that when you are under pressure and being held down, a pass requires slightly more power. These contextual requirements are great and add to the feeling that you are dealing with real physics. But if that meter is too quick, all that detail wont be pronounced enough to get me involved.

Say for example a 3m pass in the game requires a 3 millisecond press, while a 6 meter pass a 4ms press. Now, you would be able to perform one or the other with some practise, but still a 0.3 or a 0.4 would press would feel about the same thus you have to actively think about it. And what about a 4 or 5 meter pass in above example? Our brain wont even be able to differentiate between 0.325 and 0.375 miliseconds.
Only when the meter fills up slowly enough, you will be able to seperate a 4 meter pass from a 5 meter one simply by muscle memory. With say 10 different passing gradients in your muscle memory arsenal you feel much more comfortable on the ball then only 6 options that make you feel slightly nervous of overhitting. Thus, a too frantic power meter impacts the whole experience on multiple levels.

In summary i just feel the adjusted mechanics are aimed to stimulate the brain more then the instincts. It seems i now have to rely more on predictions of what the game will do next in order to decide my next step, instead off relying on my muscle memory and football instincts. All in all this makes me feel less in control and ultimately slightly less involved. Thankfully, there is long grass which makes the pass meter behave in a more natural manner.

Sorry for the long one, its sometimes so damn hard to explain something rather subtle in a second language.
 
Last edited:
DuduBR9 said:
I notice that in football, ball possession is Lost more often due to opponents read and anticipation than from tackling. This is a big thing since It reforces the fact that football is more a tatical and colective game than a constant 1 on 1 encounter like It is in online gameplay with the ridiculously non sense Hunter pressure as if attacking the Man on the ball as Quick as possible is ALL that matter.
Click to expand...

That's because European Football kills dribblers.
I've seen plenty of GREAT players with such an incredible personal imprint from South America go to European clubs and totally lose what made them stand out in the first place. Aguero (as great as he is now as a CF) is a great example.



He used to do that type of play all the time.
But they brainwashed him when he went to Atletico Madrid. Some people call that evolve.

So today it is all about passing. Holding on to the ball as little as possible.
So you don't see as many aggressive tackles as in the 90s or 80s.

Maradona used to be practically annihilated, almost criminally tackled.
Refs punish those type of tackles more severely these days and players get rid of the ball quickly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom