eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

[Chris Davies]

Explain that?

An antiquated collision system, built on an antiquated animation system where anything pre-canned is gorgeous (see @MafiaMurderBag's GIF on the previous page), but transitions and "unexpected" moments wreak absolute havoc (such as the "scripting" you mention)?

I've got video evidence of scoring a header that my player's head didn't touch, and one where I headed the ball through a guy's torso. Nobody calls that scripting.

Team Spirit definitely makes your players misplace easy passes and (below certain levels) boost the AI's attributes though, IMO. It's so basic it's like your players are being hit over the head with a baseball bat five minutes before being pushed onto the pitch.

But even that I wouldn't really call scripting. I'd just call it a horribly basic system. Which is, in my honest opinion, PES at its core. Incredibly, sometimes astoundingly (when players are stumbling for 1-2 seconds around the ball like it's a comedy sketch and letting the opponent run off with it), basic.

But I guess the reason we come back to it, is that in most cases, it nails those basics (excluding the above - which we overlook to enjoy passes with weight, attributes that matter, defences that are hard to break down and AI that provides you with a challenge).

 

[Flipper the Priest]

An antiquated collision system, built on an antiquated animation system where anything pre-canned is gorgeous (see @MafiaMurderBag's GIF on the previous page) but transitions and "unexpected" moments wreak absolute havoc (such as the "scripting" you mention)?

I've got video evidence of scoring a header that my player's head didn't touch, and one where I headed the ball through a guy's torso. Nobody calls that scripting.

It's true. Me in the demo:


Didn't think of it as scripting. Just... clumsy.

 

[digimon]

I keep reading comments about tactics being 'wrong' etc. I haven't got an issue with CPU tactics this year, they're absolutely fine. The issues are elsewhere. In my ML save, Everton came to Old Trafford to defend. They sat in a low block and wanted to counter attack me which is realistic I guess. The issue is with the actual coding - when Everton are in that low block, it's IMPOSSIBLE for me to score if the CPU has pre-determined that the outcome is for me to NOT score and essentially struggle & lose. One instance: I had Rashford ready to tap into empty net and for NO reason at all, he goes with his wrong foot and decides to pass it to Pickford. That's not a tactics issue, that's just the game saying "You're playing on Super Star, you WILL NOT SCORE regardless of what you try."

If you take off deep defensive line it spreads the opponents out. Seriously try that as they will still defend deep if they need to but they won't sit on their goal line and there won't be this fortress situation.

 

[Matt10]

I´m not surprised you answered my post eheh.

I totally respect your work with sliders, your dedication is outstanding. Also respect everyone that prefers sliders, I understand the reasons behind.

But I also have an opinion, almost a certain, that sliders stop the overal evolution of the game. Yes companies still try to make better products, to keep selling, and we kinda win something on the way. But if Konami includes sliders on this game, most likely we will never see what they can do for it. By now, imho, Konami is doing something that EA has never ever achieved in terms of gameplay. I´m only curious of what they can build from now on. The problem is, they took too long to correct basic stuff, and even now it´s not perfect, but it´s getting there. Sliders won´t help in any way, as you will have the chance to correct some things, and screw others along the experiencing of each option, and if we already had sliders, I bet we would never see a version as good as what we have this year.

Haha - no worries, mate. I know we're on the same page of respect. I appreciate the kind words. You know initially the first time I started any gameplay customization was on PES through globally editing stats for PES4. Imagine thinking now how great that game was, and then modifying it. Back then it wasn't about fixing fundamentals though - they had that already down, but it was an attempt at enhancement.

What I found more over the years with sliders in the other game, and stats/tactics in PES, is having to fix the base fundamentals. The logical things such as positioning, reactions and behavior. Every year it's been that way, and if it sliders were available for PES, I can only imagine what would have been.

I digress though as this topic will go way off and we'll agree to disagree. I certainly see your perspective though, and it isn't one that has not been brought up before. I do find it a bit "odd" of the mantra to want to experience the game the same as everyone, but I can understand where it comes from.

 

[shawminator]

The script in Master League is ruining this for me. Ruining it.

I love this game. But master League is becoming a chore. The CPU has decided the outcome for most of these games already! It’s a joke.

Exhibition games it’s beautiful, it’s loose and unpredictable. But I can’t just keep playing friendlies. Every time I turn to Man Utd save I just get angry and gaming is supposed to be fun not frustrating.

I haven't started a ML yet.
But @shawminator told me the scripting in it is disgusting, at its worst levels.

I've played pes since the iss days, I think 17 is the only one I've not had. Tried masterleague with motherwell on pro level. 10 games in I'm bottom with 3 points from 3 0-0 draws, goal difference of - 17 with no goals scored. Was lucky to get a shot on target in any game. Either its blocked last minute or balloons over the bar.
No mater the power gauge, as said by others the door was shut. The scripting was sometimes laughable. My teams ai was terrible. No support In Attack or defence. Passing was a joke, dribbling was none existant. Its really hard to describe how the game played apart from feeling I had no control over the outcome. Of those 10 games or so I only seen 3 scores,
0-0,
0-1 loss in the last 5mins
0-3, no other scoreline that was it.
Completely different experience on exhibition mode. Not as good as the demo. But defo not the scripted nonsense in masterleague

EDIT. Also forgot to say the the cpu team do not miss free kicks. I'm not sure they test the lower rated teams as most of them played like Barcelona. Those who know Scottish football will know the standard expected

 

[Peter Withe]

I've played pes since the iss days, I think 17 is the only one I've not had. Tried masterleague with motherwell on pro level. 10 games in I'm bottom with 3 points from 3 0-0 draws, goal difference of - 17 with no goals scored. Was lucky to get a shot on target in any game. Either its blocked last minute or balloons over the bar.
No mater the power gauge, as said by others the door was shut. The scripting was sometimes laughable. My teams ai was terrible. No support In Attack or defence. Passing was a joke, dribbling was none existant. Its really hard to describe how the game played apart from feeling I had no control over the outcome. Of those 10 games or so I only seen 3 scores,
0-0,
0-1 loss in the last 5mins
0-3, no other scoreline that was it.
Completely different experience on exhibition mode. Not as good as the demo. But defo not the scripted nonsense in masterleague

You've hit the nail on the head here (bolded part).

All of my matches on my Man Utd save end 1-0 (if I'm lucky and the CPU allows me to win), 0-1 loss or 1-1 (usually the CPU scoring an equaliser in the 90th minute, resulting in me crying and/or screaming.)

It's just getting tedious now. I'm trying to stick in there this year, and not give up on an otherwise excellent game of digital football. But it's chipping away at me, slowly and surely.

I think I'll give it a few more matches in Master League and then call it a day (again) on PES for this year.

Speaking of old PES games, they had scripting too, definitely. But in PES 5 ML, the CPU script would kick once or twice in every 3 matches or so. It's was bearable and because technology was limited at the time, you put up with it because it kept the game challening and interesting.

Now, the script is just pure BS. My pet hate with PES this year, and last (modern PES) is when the CPU takes the lead and then sits deep for the remaining 70+ minutes. They do that thing where you can just run with your CM up the pitch because there's no player near you. BUT as soon as you approach their penalty area, your player will decide that he cannot pass to a team mate or shoot on target. It just looks and feels bizarre, nothing like a real football match.

 

[Chris Davies]

You've hit the nail on the head here (bolded part).

All of my matches on my Man Utd save end 1-0 (if I'm lucky and the CPU allows me to win), 0-1 loss or 1-1 (usually the CPU scoring an equaliser in the 90th minute, resulting in me crying and/or screaming.)

It's just getting tedious now. I'm trying to stick in there this year, and not give up on an otherwise excellent game of digital football. But it's chipping away at me, slowly and surely.

I think I'll give it a few more matches in Master League and then call it a day (again) on PES for this year.

I think it'd make a world of difference if they free up dribbling just a tad, and put fouls back. Then if the AI wants to keep bouncing you away, they'll have to pay for it, and it balances things out. Here's hoping for a patch.

 

[Peter Withe]

I think it'd make a world of difference if they free up dribbling just a tad, and put fouls back. Then if the AI wants to keep bouncing you away, they'll have to pay for it, and it balances things out. Here's hoping for a patch.

Yes that would help immensely - having more free kicks and penalties. And yeah, they'll patch this with a bit of luck. It's why I'll hold onto my copy this year and not trade it.

 

[digimon]

You've hit the nail on the head here (bolded part).

All of my matches on my Man Utd save end 1-0 (if I'm lucky and the CPU allows me to win), 0-1 loss or 1-1 (usually the CPU scoring an equaliser in the 90th minute, resulting in me crying and/or screaming.)

It's just getting tedious now. I'm trying to stick in there this year, and not give up on an otherwise excellent game of digital football. But it's chipping away at me, slowly and surely.

I think I'll give it a few more matches in Master League and then call it a day (again) on PES for this year.

Speaking of old PES games, they had scripting too, definitely. But in PES 5 ML, the CPU script would kick once or twice in every 3 matches or so. It's was bearable and because technology was limited at the time, you put up with it because it kept the game challening and interesting.

Now, the script is just pure BS. My pet hate with PES this year, and last (modern PES) is when the CPU takes the lead and then sits deep for the remaining 70+ minutes. They do that thing where you can just run with your CM up the pitch because there's no player near you. BUT as soon as you approach their penalty area, your player will decide that he cannot pass to a team mate or shoot on target. It just looks and feels bizarre, nothing like a real football match.

Try with a different team mate. I'm a United fan aswell and I can't play with them just totally off. Other teams just seem better balanced.

 

[shawminator]

@Mikhail try playing with a team when ur highest rated player is like 67 lol.
Not sure what the wee shield number top right in the tactics screen is but mines barley goes above 50.

 

[Peter Withe]

Try with a different team mate. I'm a United fan aswell and I can't play with them just totally off. Other teams just seem better balanced.

I've had a Milan save as well, it didn't stop that script kicking in unfortunately. It's just hard coded into the ML experience, we can't get away from it.

 

[Negatrev]

With the greatest of respect, PES is scripted in ML and has been for years. It's not just me that notices it. Look at the WEPES sub reddit. Every year there's loads of posts on the issue. Or Twitter, look:


Explain that?

There's no excuse for my players to behave the way that they do, game after game after game. It's bad coding - it's great that you don't notice scripting, I'm actually envious of you.

PES 2017, 2018, 2019 and now 2020, in Super Star, in Master League - is one of the most scripted, pre-determined, frustrating and rigid gaming experiences I've ever had.

That's what's called a bug...not the same thing. I didn't say ML wasn't scripted I said at the difficulty level I play, it's not noticeable. But I have seen many people more use scripting as an excuse for their results, whereas it's quite often at the very least not the ONLY reason for their results.

Example. Someone complains that every game they go ahead and concede either one to draw or 2 to lose late on. But they don't even stop to consider that maybe their aggressive pressing earlier in the game has left their defenders so tired they get overrun late in games. They also don't alter their approach or tactics at all when the opposition increases their attack stance.

I've been playing PES a long time (since its inception) and also Football Manager (when it was still Championship Manager) where the same sorts of people make similar excuses without even considering things other than 'blatant scripting' is the cause of it all. I've also noticed that most who complain of it have zero actual evidence of it except they have won other matches and now they can't.

Not once have I told you you're imagining it. Just asking you to consider what else might cause it. Perhaps you at least check what I've stated and you might enjoy the game again. But if you want to cut off your nose to spite your face, go ahead

 

[Peter Withe]

@Mikhail try playing with a team when ur highest rated player is like 67 lol.
Not sure what the wee shield number top right in the tactics screen is but mines barley goes above 50.

That's TS (Team Spirit) mate. Mine is at 77 ish and I still lose nearly every game.

 

[Negatrev]

Saying PES isn't scripted is like saying Brexit isn't a farce.... the reddit post I saw with the ai controlled defender just leaving a ball that is right next to him so the striker could latch onto the ball and score sums up how bad the scripting is. To be fair though it's been scripted even since the golden days of PES.

There's a big difference between claiming it's not scripted and suggesting you might try other things just incase more than just blatant scripting is at play. Also, the defenders leaving balls in this version appears to be more of a bug than scripting (as it happens to both humans and AI and most often in non-critical areas. It's just people of course remember much more when it costs them a crucial goal.

 

[tosser]

ML is extremely frustrating this year for me and I will likely be switching to a regular league soon.
I started on top player with Parma, did alright, some wins, draws, losses, and then the game just seemed to decide that fun time was over and shut the door. Couldn't win, couldn't even score. Dropped down to Professional. Same deal, OK at first, then the door shut. I am now back to basic shooting on professional and maybe manage a win in every fifth game. Gervinho hasn't scored a single goal, he is almost always on but it's like the man is cursed, always blasts it wide or straight into the keeper. 90% of headers are soft ones that float just over the bar in the same arch every time. I have literally scored once from a corner and that was with manual shooting. I get a few headers in open play and they are fun but when the failed ones always look the same it drains the fun out of it. Players have an uncanny ability to just fire directly into the keeper, even when I try finesse shooting. Long rangers are always poor. Manual passes are often perfect but then the game just decides I meant to pass the ball to a guy standing 10 yards away instead, making player switching frantic and annoying.
Now this last bit I need to test better in normal play but the rest of the issues were pretty much non-issues before I started Master League.

I only play League mode and it's exactly the same. Sorry.

 

[digimon]

I've had a Milan save as well, it didn't stop that script kicking in unfortunately. It's just hard coded into the ML experience, we can't get away from it.

Fair enough. To be honest I haven't had anywhere near as much scripting as last year. The only thing is that I tend to realise sometimes that a match is going to be very difficult at that point I focus more. So maybe when there is a chance I might sweat the ball into an open goal or something cheap. That changes the momentum of the game and the match opens up.

 

[DuduBR9]

Answered your own question there mate.

Disc version allows people to play 1.0, nothing else.

So if you are a 'Gameplay Purist' as they like to call themselves, get a disc version and dont go online. If you are scum and like the dirty whore version 1.2, then go digital and dont look back.

I was already thinking It could be something rose along with updates, like the game running smoother on the Disc version. Who knows lol

The Disc version is even cheaper here in some outlets than on PSN.

Thanks for ther answers, guys

 

[SJ321]

Try with a different team mate. I'm a United fan aswell and I can't play with them just totally off. Other teams just seem better balanced.

Different team makes such a difference. I've been starting multiple master leagues to see which I like the best, check out budgets, players etc. I was absolutely diabolical with Man Utd, I struggled to create chances never mind score. I started one with Palmeiras and scored 10 goals over 2 legs against a 2nd tier side in the cup. Same setup and difficulty etc, just different teams.

 

[DarthKebab]

When you get the ball off the opposition in midfield their whole defence sprints back to their box, it’s not good, keepers stuck on the line is bad too, thought they’d sorted that in a patch last year, takes away the scoring feeling

 

[martyl2]

Hey guys,

Did I prefer demo? Yes. I've said my piece to Konami it is what it is Im not going to cry about it like i used to. Game isn't bad though. It's not like previous years where the demo was leaps and bounds better than the final game. I am actually really enjoying ML, 15 min matches on top player. Top player in exhibition feels a little easy but I enjoy the upped challenge in ML. I play on stadium cam 5-1-4 and also try 5-1-1 if you like Fifa's tele cam settings so I play zoomed in and use the radar a lot. I feel this adds to the challenge. But I used to play on normal long cam on the ps2 days so I'm used to playing with a closer cam and glancing down at radar to try and spot things happening outside of my immediate view.

I always found wide cam you can see EVERYTHING. Even the default stadium cam settings too far zoomed out for me. You can see every run, every bit of space, everything, and I think that makes things easier especially since pes has a big pitch--just a personal opinion.

I am staying away from superstar. I have stayed away from it for years. Stats don't matter on superstar on the A.I. side. I was told by a konami member a few years ago that the japanese devs see superstar has a "challenge" rather than tactics/stats actually mattering. Which is why every superstar match feels like a chore.

I also find the dribbling and shielding better on top player. I feel like on superstar the dribbling with stars is useless and i also feel like i get pushed off the ball when trying to shield it 9/10 times. Top player is much better in this regard.

Adam knows too. He knows the game needs to be better balanced with the physicality shielding and more fouls. They are listening. If only he can get the devs to change their mindset on superstar.

Just when you think you are getting the hang of top player and you think "this is getting easier" bam I get hit with a 3 game losing streak and I didn't feel cheated like I always do on superstar.

I had a match vs Man City which I won 2-1 luckily and they had 52% possession and 17 shots (13 on target). Lloris was Man of the Match for me he was immense.

I had a match vs Man United. I was winning 1-0 felt in control. Changed my tactics to swarm the box, centering targets, long ball counter attack. Try to sit deep and close off the game late with a quick counter. Everything was setup perfectly, i won possession my guys were bombing forward on the counter attack and I had the numbers but flubbed a 1v1 dribbling move. They then countered my counter lol and had more men around my box as my guys were trying to run back in position and Man U found Mata with a little bit of space and buried it in the bottom corner in the 92nd min and I ended up with a 1-1 draw. My fault. Felt great.

For those that find top player too easy in ML, you guys clearly must be better players than me haha. Maybe I would find it easier on wide cam where I can see everything i dunno. But this is the first time in a long time I'm enjoying ML.

I know there is an inevitable patch coming. Hope it improves the game in certain areas.

Demo gameplay with improved A.I. would have sufficed for me. Anyway...

Would love to hear some of your ML stories!

Good to hear you are enjoying it B-Man. Must be the first time in a few years anyways?

Be nice if you could get a podcast with Chris to discuss the full game.

Nice to see the 1.00 vs 1.02 argument has somewhat balanced out in this last few days, seems a decent game this year!

 

[tosser]

When you get the ball off the opposition in midfield their whole defence sprints back to their box, it’s not good, keepers stuck on the line is bad too, thought they’d sorted that in a patch last year, takes away the scoring feeling

It was sorted out in the second patch, then reversed in the third patch

 

[LaGarraCharrua!]

77 is not a good team spirit level at all and not one where you can expect good results and rub of the green. They have bumped up the demand this year for building team spirit and I like that; another part of the challenge. I'm approaching end of my first season using defaults and barely scraping 80 but wouldn't have it any other way. I actually think you need to be even higher that what is thought the bare minimum for MyClub which is 85. Even 85 in MyClub is risky this year.

 

[Chuny]

The game would be much better off without Team Spirit.
All Team Spirit does is contribute to the scripting itself.
It sounds like a great idea, but unfortunately it just doesn't feel smooth enough.

 

[aderow]

We were tied. Lost to them in pens. It was very random how it happened yea.

Yup. Tactical logic in this game is poor at best.

 

[MKC]

How long you guys took to be good to play in manual? Is really hard for me, I always got smashed when I play manual.

I've never thought of playing manual until PES2018, because the higher difficulty settings drove me nuts, so i wanted to play on a lower setting, but not having it be too easy.

The first thing i did was just play exhibitions, on the first difficulty setting (Yes, the easiest one), and i just played until i got better at it, so i moved up to the second, then the third, which was regular, then finally i got good enough to play on professional, which is what i settled with.

The main thing is, don't focus on the fact you're getting "smashed", don't focus on playing "good" or not, when trying to learn manual, you need to understand that you're going to take a few beatings at first, because you're gonna miss easy chances, because you'll give the ball away in dangerous parts and concede dumb goals, a lot.

You have to focus on enjoying yourself, when you make a cool pass that you know you wouldn't be able to do with the assists on, or that you wouldn't even try with the assists on, when you score a goal that you would normally miss due to the difficulty of manual shooting at first, enjoy those moments, that's what manual is all about, enjoying your football.

TL;DR Practice on lower difficulty settings first, and give yourself time.

 

[digimon]

When you get the ball off the opposition in midfield their whole defence sprints back to their box, it’s not good, keepers stuck on the line is bad too, thought they’d sorted that in a patch last year, takes away the scoring feeling

Check their tactics. That only happens if they have deep defendsive line on in advanced settings. For some reason Konami have added that to a ridiculous amount of teams. 17/20 teams in the prem have it.

 

[aderow]

The game would be much better off without Team Spirit.
All Team Spirit does is contribute to the scripting itself.
It sounds like a great idea, but unfortunately it just doesn't feel smooth enough.

I understand team spirit but that's an aspect of human behavior that is so nuanced and intricate there's no way to properly replicate it through code. It just isn't something that you can reduce down to a number.

I think if they want it in the game, its effects need to be reduced.

 

[xicpanad]

TS is just a meter for how much the game will f@€k your chances on a certain match. It´s not very well implemented but I take it as an interesting way to balance the challenge. If only it was well made...

 

[Peter Withe]

@Chuny is right, just do away with TS.

The game is smooth and extremely enjoyable in exhibition games. Let the stats do the talking in regards to difficulty, not some BS team spirit fantasy crap.

If I’m playing Crystal Palace it doesn’t mean they have to turn into the best defence in the country just because my TS is low. It’s stupid.

 

[Chuny]

Also, I know we all tend to like slower paced games.
But just watching the CL games tonight, everything feels on +1.